Misremembering Pearl Harbor

[DudleySmith]

You’re uninformed. Get informed before posting. If you’re a devoted imperialist or statist, it’s likely too late for you.

FROM FLAGSHIP TO INFAMY: THE DOOMED VOYAGE OF THE USS INDIANAPOLIS​

She was fast and she was powerful. She was America. So much so that President Franklin D. Roosevelt adopted the Indy as his official “Ship of State.”

ESCAPED PEARL HARBOR​

For reasons shrouded in mystery, the USS Indianapolis was not in port at Pearl Harbor on the morning of December 7, 1941. In Edgar Harrell’s book, “Out of the Depths” — himself a survivor of the Indy ’s tragic sinking— he retells the account of Daniel Brady, a seaman second class aboard the Indy . According to Brady, the ship was docked across from battleship row and most of the men were ashore for liberty leaving about 1/3 of the crew aboard. On the morning of December 5th, the remaining crew was told to get the ship ready to leave in less than an hour, a nearly impossible task.

“Most of our crew,” Brady says, “Were ashore and we could never recall them in time on such short notice. Soon, 50 Marines in full battle gear came aboard…. Next came truckloads of food and vegetables, which were dumped unceremoniously on the bleached, white, teakwood quarterdeck!”

Within the hour the Indy was at sea having left behind most of her crew, and on her way to conduct drills some 700 miles southwest of Hawaii. She was spared the wrath of the Japanese assault on Pearl Harbor.
From Flagship to Infamy: The Doomed Voyage of the USS Indianapolis - American Outdoor Guide

You and your commie buddy Mike need to get married. You're pretty much incompetent at faking being a 'libertarian'.

 

[gipper]

You and your commie buddy Mike need to get married. You're pretty much incompetent at faking being a 'libertarian'.

Dumb. Attack me but fail to recognize I proved you wrong.

 

[mikegriffith1]

You and your commie buddy Mike need to get married. You're pretty much incompetent at faking being a 'libertarian'.

LOL! Holy cow! Well, this is a first! No one has ever, ever called me a commie before. Are you new here? You might wanna go read some of my other posts before you repeat such a laughable claim. Just FYI, I've staunchly defended Senator Joe McCarthy, have harshly attacked Chinese Communist mass murderer Mao Tse Tung, have harshly attacked Soviet mass murderer Joseph Stalin, have attacked Truman for selling out the anti-communist Chinese Nationalists in their war with Mao's Communist army, have attacked the 1970s Democrats for selling out South Vietnam and allowing the North Vietnamese Communists to win the war, etc., etc.

And if you are an anti-communist, why are you defending Truman's immoral decision to nuke anti-communist Japan, especially given the fact that we knew that Nagasaki was home to the largest Christian population in Japan? You know that we knew that Japan had been trying to surrender at least since June of that year, right?

 

[DudleySmith]

Dumb. Attack me but fail to recognize I proved you wrong.

You and your buddy are always proven wrong, numerous times. You morons just keep repeating the same dumbass bullshit over and over and over and over again, like little robot parrots. Nobody attacked you, it's clear what both of you are, fakes.

 

[gipper]

You and your buddy are always proven wrong, numerous times. You morons just keep repeating the same dumbass bullshit over and over and over and over again, like little robot parrots. Nobody attacked you, it's clear what both of you are, fakes.

I guess documented facts aren’t your strong point. You prefer statist propaganda.

 

[DudleySmith]

I guess documented facts aren’t your strong point. You prefer statist propaganda.

You think people will forget what stupid rubbish you post for 'facts'; they don't. And the fake libertoon act doesn't fly either.

 

[gipper]

You think people will forget what stupid rubbish you post for 'facts'; they don't. And the fake libertoon act doesn't fly either.

Lol. I’m a commie and a lib. That’s too funny. You don’t have a clue, yet I’ve posted on this forum for 11 years.

 

[mikegriffith1]

You and your buddy are always proven wrong, numerous times. You morons just keep repeating the same dumbass bullshit over and over and over and over again, like little robot parrots. Nobody attacked you, it's clear what both of you are, fakes.

Actually, that's exactly what you and your fellow traditionalists keep doing.

It is ironic that many of you who defend the traditional story posture as conservatives, all the while defending the pre-Pearl Harbor actions of one of the most liberal, pro-Soviet, Soviet-compromised, socialist presidents in our history.

A major SOVIET policy goal was to bring about war between America and Japan. Japan repeatedly made reasonable peace offers to FDR, and FDR responded with more and more sanctions, sanctions that were crippling Japan's economy, just as the Soviet spies and sympathizers in his administration wanted and were urging him to do.

When confronted with evidence of advance knowledge, you come up with pure poppycock. It was just an amazing "coincidence" that the USS Indianapolis, FDR's favorite ship, suddenly and mysteriously left Pearl Harbor less than 48 hours before the attack. "Bombardment practice!" Really?! With most of the crew left behind?!! How you gonna practice bombardment with a skeleton crew? How? "Oh, wait, no, not bombardment practice, but a supply run to Johnston Island!" A "supply run"--by a heavy cruiser?! Since when do heavy cruisers make supply runs? And, leaving this fact aside, what was the rush, then? Why leave most of the crew behind to make a supply run to a small island 400 miles away? There were plenty of transport ships, whose job it was to make such runs. Why weren't any of them used for this alleged supply run? Why the mad rush that was so frantic that most of the crew was left behind?

What about the Hoover-Ladd-Early memos, based on a report from the chief of Army Counterintelligence, in which we learn that Army intelligence knew from Japanese intercepts about the impending attack at least two days ahead of time? Was Colonel Bissell just making up all of that? Why would he do that? The memos note that Bissell was giving his report in the "strictest confidence," and that he was very worried that his superiors would find out about it. Those memos were never meant to see the light of day. So what is your explanation for what the memos report?

What about the Japanese map that Congressman Dies discussed in his memoir, a map that clearly indicated Pearl Harbor would be attacked? Dies called Secretary of State Hull about it and was told to please not say anything because it would disrupt the sensitive diplomatic situation. Dies was a died-in-the-wool patriot, and he only discussed the map years later because he was so baffled over why no action was taken on it. Are you saying Dies just fabricated the whole account? Why?

What about the Station Hypo intercept of the Akagi talking with several support vessels on a tactical circuit? Even the Station Hypo report on the intercept noted the significance of this action. Why? Because carriers never communicated with support vessels on a tactical circuit in home waters. The traditionalist explanation? "It was part of the Japanese deception effort!" That's comical. Why, why, why would a deception effort that was trying to convince us that the carriers were in home waters fake a transmission that revealed that the carriers were not in home waters???

And on and on we could go.

 

[DudleySmith]

Actually, that's exactly what you and your fellow traditionalists keep doing.

It is ironic that many of you who defend the traditional story posture as conservatives, all the while defending the pre-Pearl Harbor actions of one of the most liberal, pro-Soviet, Soviet-compromised, socialist presidents in our history.

A major SOVIET policy goal was to bring about war between America and Japan. Japan repeatedly made reasonable peace offers to FDR, and FDR responded with more and more sanctions, sanctions that were crippling Japan's economy, just as the Soviet spies and sympathizers in his administration wanted and were urging him to do.

When confronted with evidence of advance knowledge, you come up with pure poppycock. It was just an amazing "coincidence" that the USS Indianapolis, FDR's favorite ship, suddenly and mysteriously left Pearl Harbor less than 48 hours before the attack. "Bombardment practice!" Really?! With most of the crew left behind?!! How you gonna practice bombardment with a skeleton crew? How? "Oh, wait, no, not bombardment practice, but a supply run to Johnston Island!" A "supply run"--by a heavy cruiser?! Since when do heavy cruisers make supply runs? And, leaving this fact aside, what was the rush, then? Why leave most of the crew behind to make a supply run to a small island 400 miles away? There were plenty of transport ships, whose job it was to make such runs. Why weren't any of them used for this alleged supply run? Why the mad rush that was so frantic that most of the crew was left behind?

What about the Hoover-Ladd-Early memos, based on a report from the chief of Army Counterintelligence, in which we learn that Army intelligence knew from Japanese intercepts about the impending attack at least two days ahead of time? Was Colonel Bissell just making up all of that? Why would he do that? The memos note that Bissell was giving his report in the "strictest confidence," and that he was very worried that his superiors would find out about it. Those memos were never meant to see the light of day. So what is your explanation for what the memos report?

What about the Japanese map that Congressman Dies discussed in his memoir, a map that clearly indicated Pearl Harbor would be attacked? Dies called Secretary of State Hull about it and was told to please not say anything because it would disrupt the sensitive diplomatic situation. Dies was a died-in-the-wool patriot, and he only discussed the map years later because he was so baffled over why no action was taken on it. Are you saying Dies just fabricated the whole account? Why?

What about the Station Hypo intercept of the Akagi talking with several support vessels on a tactical circuit? Even the Station Hypo report on the intercept noted the significance of this action. Why? Because carriers never communicated with support vessels on a tactical circuit in home waters. The traditionalist explanation? "It was part of the Japanese deception effort!" That's comical. Why, why, why would a deception effort that was trying to convince us that the carriers were in home waters fake a transmission that revealed that the carriers were not in home waters???

And on and on we could go.

The usual lunacy, connecting imaginary dots as if you're clever n stuff.

 

[gipper]

The usual lunacy, connecting imaginary dots as if you're clever n stuff.

Just because you know nothing about the event other than what the government told you in fourth grade, doesn’t make it lunacy.

Ststists are a dumb lot.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The decoding of Japanese diplomatic messages "Magic" gave the U.S. a unique opportunity to predict Japanese planning before the Pearl Harbor attack. Evidence indicates that COS Marshall, who was one of the few who had access to Magic, had the final message that indicated an imminent Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor hours before it happened but he failed to warn Pearl Harbor until it was too late. The old battle ships were conveniently lined up at the dock but for some reason the more valuable carriers were out at sea and conveniently not in the way of the Japanese invasion force. A modern conspiracy theory would be that FDR and the fools thought that the Japanese might put a dent in the U.S. fleet but the prevailing thought was that they would be pushovers in the long run.

Yes, too bad that even the Japanese were late decoding the message to their diplomats in Washington, DC. That blows your theory about Marshall right out the window.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Lol. I’m a commie and a lib. That’s too funny. You don’t have a clue, yet I’ve posted on this forum for 11 years.

No, you don't have the intelligence required to a commie or a lib.

 

[Mushroom]

Capt. Eric Nave, 94; Broke Japan's Code Before Pearl Harbor

Hmmm, somewhat simplistic explanation.

The entire program of breaking Japanese codes was called "Magic". The US has been breaking Japanese codes since 1923, and had actually become quite good at it. RED was used for information of low value, and BLUE was the breaking of codes of medium value. This was broken in 1932, only two years after it was enacted.

The highest during the war was PURPLE, and the US broke it in 1939. And a similar machine was "JN-25" that was being phased in at the start of the war to replace BLUE, And breaking it was not the trick, as it was very close to PURPLE. However, the lack of significant traffic conducted in that code prior to the outbreak of war slowed down the effort to decrypt it. But by March 1942 the Allies were reading over half of the Japanese Navy messages. The biggest problem was actually that there were few Japanese speakers that could translate the take once it was decoded.

 

[Mushroom]

Evidence indicates that COS Marshall, who was one of the few who had access to Magic, had the final message that indicated an imminent Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor hours before it happened but he failed to warn Pearl Harbor until it was too late.

Not true.

While the highest levels of the codebreakers had indeed decoded the Japanese Declaration of War, nowhere in it did it say what the target of any attack would be.

But please, you are welcome to actually read the "14 Part Message", which is what was sent to the Ambassador to present to the President on the morning of 7 December. And nowhere in it does it say where they would attack, simply that they were declaring war.

But please, feel free to read the entire thing and show me where I was wrong.

HyperWar: Japanese "14-Part Message" of 7 December 1941

The full text of the Japanese 14-part message delivered to Secretary of State Cordell Hull on the afternoon of December 7, 1941 -- after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Note that the text does <b>not</b> declare war, or even break diplomatic relations -- it merely declares an impasse in the ongoing...

www.ibiblio.org

Because no traffic was ever sent about any of the attacks on 7-8 December. All naval convoys left and operated in radio silence and no messages of the attacks were ever broadcast. Every single order related to it were entirely hand carried and never transmitted. The first message ever broadcast by any of the fleets about the attack was the "Climb Mount Niitaka" one by the Hawaiian Task Force.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Yes, too bad that even the Japanese were late decoding the message to their diplomats in Washington, DC. That blows your theory about Marshall right out the window.

Your argument makes no sense. How does the fact that the Japanese embassy staff were late in translating the 14-part message into English refute his theory about Marshall? We know, and even the JCC admitted, that FDR and his advisers had the first 13 parts of the 14-part message on the night of 6 December, and that they had the entire message plus the two accompanying instruction messages by no later than 9:00 AM on 7 December.

When the final segment of the 14-part Japanese diplomatic cable and the associated instructions were decrypted on the morning of 7 December, the White House and senior military officials knew they had to send some kind of warning to Kimmel and Short. They knew they would be unable to come up with a believable excuse for not giving Kimmel and Short some kind of warning about the Japanese message. However, the warning they sent was not only vague but was sent via regular commercial telegraph and did not arrive until hours after the attack.

Marshall told the Roberts Commission that he sent the warning message via telegraph because he was afraid the Japanese would overhear a warning given over the scrambler phone.

Marshall’s explanation is nonsensical and unbelievable. It is hard to fathom what intelligence Marshall believed would be revealed if he simply called Short and ordered him to put the island's military forces on full alert immediately. Such a warning would not have revealed that Japanese codes had been broken and would have rendered the Japanese attack far less effective. Or, Marshall simply could have given Short any number of believable cover stories for putting the forces on alert, such as that an American spy in Tokyo had learned that a Japanese fleet would attack Hawaii or that Russian fishing vessels had spotted a large Japanese fleet heading east, etc., etc.

Marshall could have easily warned General Short on the scrambler phone without mentioning Japanese intercepts. Incredibly, Marshall did not even have the warning sent as a priority message and failed to ensure that it was marked as urgent.

Moreover, as mentioned, Marshall's "warning" was hardly worthy of the term. It did not even order Short to increase his alert status, or even suggest that he consider doing so. Marshall could have much more easily given this vague "warning" over the scrambler phone. But, of course, Short may have asked for asked for clarification and may have asked Marshall if he should put his forces on full alert, etc., etc., so Marshall could not risk conversing with Short about the Japanese message.

Marshall's "warning" also contained the lie that no one knew if there was anything important about the time the Japanese set for the delivery of their message, when in fact we know that virtually everyone who saw the message recognized that the 1:00 PM time was the time the attack would occur.

Marshall could have had no rational, credible fear of Japanese monitoring and thus no reason to avoid sending this critical warning via the fastest possible means, especially given the fact that he knew time was of the essence. Even if he believed the Japanese would overhear the warning, why would this have persuaded him to send the warning in such a format that it would likely arrive too late to do any good? Indeed, if the Japanese had been monitoring the scrambler phone (they were not), they would have realized they had lost the element of surprise and may have even called off the attack. Was Marshall just too dumb to understand this obvious fact?

If nothing else, warning Kimmel and Short via scrambler phone or Navy radio would have given them time to get more men and guns ready to respond when the attack occurred. The Navy Court of Inquiry noted that "had the telephone and plain language been used, this information could have been received in Hawaii about two hours before the attack began" (NCI 318). Two hours would have given Kimmel and Short ample time to get most of their planes in the air and to have many more men and guns ready for action. It is difficult to believe that these obvious, common-sense considerations did not occur to Marshall.

 

[g5000]

Today China seeks for world domination and Russia threaten. While in Europe Russia threaten the Ukraine.
Meanwhile we watch corrupt and weak political leaders within our nation's capital bow and submit to the enemy, aided and abetted by the biased Quisling Media complex; America has been compromised by a cognitively impaired occupant of the White House that is handing over resources to the enemy while Republicans sit silently on the sidelines.

O'REILLY: Putin's a killer.

TRUMP: There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers. Well, you think our country is so innocent?

 

[Doc7505]

O'REILLY: Putin's a killer.

TRUMP: There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers. Well, you think our country is so innocent?

What has Trump got to do with the Foreign Policies of Joey Xi Bai Dung's today? Putin's Russia is still as aggressive as it was in 2015 or 2019. The same thing goes for Xi Jinping and the CCP. So why are you trolling with such posts?
Is it because Hunter Bai Dungs' laptop exposed the Biden crime Family operations and incestual pedophilia?

 

[mikegriffith1]

This thread is another perfect example of what happens when you try to get those who swallow the traditional Pearl Harbor story to explain the mountain of evidence that refutes it. All they can do is call names, hurl insults, and repeat debunked talking points.

What is especially ironic is that many of these traditionalists posture as conservatives and patriots and yet justify FDR's refusal to make peace with anti-communist Japan while doing all in his power to preserve and strengthen the Soviet Union. War between America and Japan was a major policy goal of the Soviets, and their spies and sympathizers exerted their influence on FDR's administration to ensure that Japan was provoked to war.

 

[gipper]

This thread is another perfect example of what happens when you try to get those who swallow the traditional Pearl Harbor story to explain the mountain of evidence that refutes it. All they can do is call names, hurl insults, and repeat debunked talking points.

What is especially ironic is that many of these traditionalists posture as conservatives and patriots and yet justify FDR's refusal to make peace with anti-communist Japan while doing all in his power to preserve and strengthen the Soviet Union. War between America and Japan was a major policy goal of the Soviets, and their spies and sympathizers exerted their influence on FDR's administration to ensure that Japan was provoked to war.

They’re the same people who believe the Warren Commission. They are statists first and foremost. So, they can’t believe their government would lie to them. Even though the lies are evident.

 

[MisterBeale]

In this week's conversation with The International Forecaster, Bob Chapman reflects on the upcoming 70th anniversary of Pearl Harbor and discusses what that incident tells us about the world we are living in today. We also discuss the future of Europe, and the Ron Paul campaign.

Interview 424 – Bob Chapman | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com

Corbett Report Radio 050 – Deconstructing Pearl Harbor with Robert Stinnett | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com

Tora, Tora, Tora! – FLNWO #21 : The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com

Declassified Memo Hinted of 1941 Hawaii Attack​

Blockbuster book also reveals FDR scuttled war announcement against axis powers.

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/11/29/declassified-memo-hinted-of-1941-hawaii-attack-