Misremembering Pearl Harbor

[Batcat]

August 15 2021
One year ago, the Donald released 5,000 Taliban fighters in exchange for a cease-fire to help his flailing presidential campaign, despite strenuous objections from both the Pentagon and the Afghan government. President Ashraf Ghani warned that their release would be a “danger to the world.”

We are finding out that many of these fighters entering Kabul, such as Mawlavi Talib, are top Taliban commanders who oversaw the assaults of the key cities this week. And they go up from there.

Worse, the Taliban leader who is set to take over Afghanistan, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, has Trump to thank for his release.

Donald J. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David the week of Sept. 11 to strike what was essentially a surrender deal, but cancelled after the obvious backlash of hosting the Taliban on 9/11. Instead, he sent Pompeo to Qatar to sign the deal with the Taliban, and announced that he had given the Taliban everything they asked for because “everyone is tired of war.”

Not only did Trump cave to the Taliban by giving them everything they asked for, but no members of the Afghan government were present. None. Trump completely cut them out of the deal.

Trump was not the President when the Taliban took back Afghanistan. Joe Biden was.

Joe Biden overturned a number of Trump policies when he entered office. For example he stopped building the Mexican border wall and opened that border to illegal immigrants. He could have decided to stay in Afghanistan until he was satisfied that we could withdraw. He didn’t wait.

Stop trying to blame Trump for the mess Joe has created on his watch.

No, Biden Can’t Blame Trump For The Afghanistan Withdrawal Disaster

Under Biden’s direct command, the Taliban seized hundreds of U.S. Humvees, Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, and several million-dollar U.S. drones.

thefederalist.com

 

[candycorn]

Yes, Trump didn’t get us out. He wanted to make damn sure the withdrawal was conducted correctly.

Your wonderful Joe Biden was in a big hurry and screwed everything up.

You matter how hard you try it was Joe who was in charge of the withdrawal.

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View attachment 572740
View attachment 572741

Your blob had 4 years.... biden botched the withdraw...but he made the tough call to bring the curtain down on the whole thing. it's what leaders do; make tough calls. Your blob? He wasn't (and isn't) a leader.

 

[candycorn]

Trump was not the President when the Taliban took back Afghanistan. Joe Biden was.

Joe Biden overturned a number of Trump policies when he entered office. For example he stopped building the Mexican border wall and opened that border to illegal immigrants. He could have decided to stay in Afghanistan until he was satisfied that we could withdraw. He didn’t wait.

Stop trying to blame Trump for the mess Joe has created on his watch.

No, Biden Can’t Blame Trump For The Afghanistan Withdrawal Disaster

Under Biden’s direct command, the Taliban seized hundreds of U.S. Humvees, Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, and several million-dollar U.S. drones.

thefederalist.com

Yeah..because he lost the election.

Your blob dropped the number of troops to 2,500 or so.

The blob had 4 years to do something and he failed.

 

[candycorn]

There is considerable money to be made in deals with China. Our elected leadership depends on money in order to be reelected. The money rolls in if they are willing to ignore the bad things the Communist Chinese leadership do to the people in their nation and the threat that China poses to our nation.

Some of our leaders sell their influence to the Chinese and profit big time. Of course there is a “pay back” involved which may not benefit our nation but the money justifies the means to those who sell their influence. Money may not buy happiness but it does buy cocaine and strippers for Hunter Biden and 10% for “the Big Guy.”

Eventually we will finance the Chinese until they reach the point they may just take over our nation without a shot being fired as their military will be far superior to ours. Our leaders will be promised important positions in the highest levels of our new Communist government and they will be happy to go along. Better Red then dead.

A modern day Sun Tzu waiting an updated The Art Of War would point out the best way to defeat another nation is just to buy its leaders.

That conspiracy theory is almost as crazy as the ones about the 2020 election.

 

[Smokin' OP]

Trump was not the President when the Taliban took back Afghanistan. Joe Biden was.

Joe Biden overturned a number of Trump policies when he entered office. For example he stopped building the Mexican border wall and opened that border to illegal immigrants. He could have decided to stay in Afghanistan until he was satisfied that we could withdraw. He didn’t wait.

Stop trying to blame Trump for the mess Joe has created on his watch.

No, Biden Can’t Blame Trump For The Afghanistan Withdrawal Disaster

Under Biden’s direct command, the Taliban seized hundreds of U.S. Humvees, Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, and several million-dollar U.S. drones.

thefederalist.com

It was Trump who surrendered.
It was Trump who signed the withdrawal deal.
It was Trump who released 5000 Taliban prisoners.

October 8 2020
Afghanistan's Taliban group on Thursday welcomed an announcement by President Donald Trump that he would pull out all U.S. troops from the country by Christmas.

Trump said on Twitter on Wednesday: "We should have the small remaining number of our BRAVE Men and Women serving in Afghanistan home by Christmas!"

It was Trump who withdrew 10,000 Us troops from 13,000 to 2500.
Trump's announcement came just hours after national security adviser Robert O'Brien said the U.S. had less than 5,000 troops in Afghanistan currently and would go down to 2,500 by early next year.

Just like when Bush signed an withdraw agreement in Iraq, the GQP blamed Obama.

 

[Batcat]

It was Trump who surrendered.
It was Trump who signed the withdrawal deal.
It was Trump who released 5000 Taliban prisoners.

October 8 2020
Afghanistan's Taliban group on Thursday welcomed an announcement by President Donald Trump that he would pull out all U.S. troops from the country by Christmas.

Trump said on Twitter on Wednesday: "We should have the small remaining number of our BRAVE Men and Women serving in Afghanistan home by Christmas!"

It was Trump who withdrew 10,000 Us troops from 13,000 to 2500.
Trump's announcement came just hours after national security adviser Robert O'Brien said the U.S. had less than 5,000 troops in Afghanistan currently and would go down to 2,500 by early next year.

Just like when Bush signed an withdraw agreement in Iraq, the GQP blamed Obama.

All that may be true but the President IN CHARGE of and RESPONSIBLE for the Afghanistan withdrawal was Joe Biden.

I know you think everything that has went wrong since Trump took office is all Trump’s fault even what has gone wrong since he left office. I also realize that if a republican becomes President after Joe Biden, he will likely blame Joe for all his problems. Typical politicians.

I personally admire Harry Truman more than most Presidents who followed him. The sign on his desk reads The Buck Stops here!

 

[Smokin' OP]

All that may be true but the President IN CHARGE of and RESPONSIBLE for the Afghanistan withdrawal was Joe Biden.

I know you think everything that has went wrong since Trump took office is all Trump’s fault even what has gone wrong since he left office. I also realize that if a republican becomes President after Joe Biden, he will likely blame Joe for all his problems. Typical politicians.

I personally admire Harry Truman more than most Presidents who followed him. The sign on his desk reads The Buck Stops here!



View attachment 572750

Biden and Obama received the blame for an agreement they had no part of.

Biden should have started the withdrawal earlier and sent more troops there to facilitate the withdrawal.

Who would have thought the Afghans would surrender so quickly?
After 20 years, you would think someone, had better intelligence info and sources.

Both the Trump and Biden administrations were warned by US intelligence that the Afghan army’s resistance to the Taliban could collapse “within days” after an over-hasty withdrawal, according to a former CIA counter-terrorism chief.

Press accounts of White House decision-making in recent days have suggested that Joe Biden was led to believe that it might take 18 months for Kabul and Ashraf Ghani’s government to fall. Last week, unnamed officials were widely quoted as saying it could be 30 to 90 days.

Douglas London, the CIA’s former counter-terrorism chief for south and south-west Asia gave a detailed account on the Just Security website on Wednesday, he described intelligence briefings to the Trump and Biden teams which gave different estimates of how long Ghani and the Afghan forces could endure a Taliban offensive, depending on the speed and depth of the US retreat.

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[Doc7505]

August 15 2021
One year ago, the Donald released 5,000 Taliban fighters in exchange for a cease-fire to help his flailing presidential campaign, despite strenuous objections from both the Pentagon and the Afghan government. President Ashraf Ghani warned that their release would be a “danger to the world.”

We are finding out that many of these fighters entering Kabul, such as Mawlavi Talib, are top Taliban commanders who oversaw the assaults of the key cities this week. And they go up from there.

Worse, the Taliban leader who is set to take over Afghanistan, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, has Trump to thank for his release.

Donald J. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David the week of Sept. 11 to strike what was essentially a surrender deal, but cancelled after the obvious backlash of hosting the Taliban on 9/11. Instead, he sent Pompeo to Qatar to sign the deal with the Taliban, and announced that he had given the Taliban everything they asked for because “everyone is tired of war.”

Not only did Trump cave to the Taliban by giving them everything they asked for, but no members of the Afghan government were present. None. Trump completely cut them out of the deal.

What has that to do about the Japanese attack on America 80 years ago on Dec 7, 1941?
Your TDS exceeds your logic.

 

[basquebromance]

 

[Smokin' OP]

What has that to do about the Japanese attack on America 80 years ago on Dec 7, 1941?
Your TDS exceeds your logic.

Really?
You're trying way too hard to keep up.

A response to post 26, 3 comments before yours (29).

 

[whitehall]

The decoding of Japanese diplomatic messages "Magic" gave the U.S. a unique opportunity to predict Japanese planning before the Pearl Harbor attack. Evidence indicates that COS Marshall, who was one of the few who had access to Magic, had the final message that indicated an imminent Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor hours before it happened but he failed to warn Pearl Harbor until it was too late. The old battle ships were conveniently lined up at the dock but for some reason the more valuable carriers were out at sea and conveniently not in the way of the Japanese invasion force. A modern conspiracy theory would be that FDR and the fools thought that the Japanese might put a dent in the U.S. fleet but the prevailing thought was that they would be pushovers in the long run.

 

[Doc7505]

The decoding of Japanese diplomatic messages "Magic" gave the U.S. a unique opportunity to predict Japanese planning before the Pearl Harbor attack. Evidence indicates that COS Marshall, who was one of the few who had access to Magic, had the final message that indicated an imminent Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor hours before it happened but he failed to warn Pearl Harbor until it was too late. The old battle ships were conveniently lined up at the dock but for some reason the more valuable carriers were out at sea and conveniently not in the way of the Japanese invasion force. A modern conspiracy theory would be that FDR and the fools thought that the Japanese might put a dent in the U.S. fleet but the prevailing thought was that they would be pushovers in the long run.

That conspiracy theory is near as old as the attack itself. The fact is that our politicians, Admirals and Generals, namely King and MacArthur were too complacent and grossly unprepared to stave off an attack.
In this case Gen. MacArthur worst of all should have been alert and was not when the Philippines was attacked the day after Pearl Harbor. If anyone should have been court-martialed for dereliction of duty. Gen. MacArthur was the primary candidate.

 

[DudleySmith]

That conspiracy theory is near as old as the attack itself. The fact is that our politicians, Admirals and Generals, namely King and MacArthur were too complacent and grossly unprepared to stave off an attack.
In this case Gen. MacArthur worst of all should have been alert and was not when the Philippines was attacked the day after Pearl Harbor. If anyone should have been court-martialed for dereliction of duty. Gen. MacArthur was the primary candidate.

They received several conflicting messages on fleet movements, the consensus being they were heading south, not toward Pearl. The carriers were delivering planes to Midway and Wake'; only two were based at Pearl. One was actually returning to base, but was dealyed a day by a storm, or it would have been destroyed in the attack.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Another repetition of the mythical traditional, American militarist version of Pearl Harbor and World War II.

No, 300,000 Chinese were not killed in the Nanking Massacre, not even close, whereas the Chinese Nationalists killed at least 400,000 of their fellow Chinese in the Yellow River Massacre (the Nationalists breached the Yellow River Dam at several points, flooding an enormous area and killing at least 400,000 Chinese, in an effort to stop a non-existent Japanese advance).

And, no, it is not a "myth" that U.S. intelligence intercepted Japanese military and diplomatic transmissions that clearly indicated that Pearl Harbor would be attacked.

Isn't it curious that FDR's favorite Navy ship, the USS Indianapolis, was ordered to leave Pearl Harbor less than 48 hours before the attack, and that the ship left in such a rush that it left without most of its crew? Neither of the two explanations for the ship's strange, rushed departure make any sense. One story says the ship was sent to take supplies to Johnston Island. The other story says the ship was sent to do bombardment training. Well, why would a heavy cruiser be suddenly dispatched to take supplies when there were plenty of transport ships to do so? And why would a routine supply mission require such a rushed, frenzied departure that would leave most of the crew behind? The bombardment training story is equally nonsensical. You don't do bombardment training at the last minute, and you certainly don't do it with most of your crew left behind.

 

[DudleySmith]

What is curious is why nutjobs keep trying to peddle stupid conspiracy theories that are repeatedly refuted a zillion times over.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Well, Britain also attacked without declaring war.

America and Japan weren’t at war. Britain and France weren’t at war. Japan attacked the US Navy because they were afraid we *might* interfere in their empire building. Britain attacked the French navy because they were afraid the French ships *might* fall into German hands.

Both attacks were foul play.

The U.K. Gave the French the option of either joining the fight against the Nazis, or being interned in a neutral port. The French declined and tried to sortie their fleet.

 

[gipper]

What is curious is why nutjobs keep trying to peddle stupid conspiracy theories that are repeatedly refuted a zillion times over.

You’re uninformed. Get informed before posting. If you’re a devoted imperialist or statist, it’s likely too late for you.

FROM FLAGSHIP TO INFAMY: THE DOOMED VOYAGE OF THE USS INDIANAPOLIS​

She was fast and she was powerful. She was America. So much so that President Franklin D. Roosevelt adopted the Indy as his official “Ship of State.”

ESCAPED PEARL HARBOR​

For reasons shrouded in mystery, the USS Indianapolis was not in port at Pearl Harbor on the morning of December 7, 1941. In Edgar Harrell’s book, “Out of the Depths” — himself a survivor of the Indy ’s tragic sinking— he retells the account of Daniel Brady, a seaman second class aboard the Indy . According to Brady, the ship was docked across from battleship row and most of the men were ashore for liberty leaving about 1/3 of the crew aboard. On the morning of December 5th, the remaining crew was told to get the ship ready to leave in less than an hour, a nearly impossible task.

“Most of our crew,” Brady says, “Were ashore and we could never recall them in time on such short notice. Soon, 50 Marines in full battle gear came aboard…. Next came truckloads of food and vegetables, which were dumped unceremoniously on the bleached, white, teakwood quarterdeck!”

Within the hour the Indy was at sea having left behind most of her crew, and on her way to conduct drills some 700 miles southwest of Hawaii. She was spared the wrath of the Japanese assault on Pearl Harbor.
From Flagship to Infamy: The Doomed Voyage of the USS Indianapolis - American Outdoor Guide

 

[mikegriffith1]

What is curious is why nutjobs keep trying to peddle stupid conspiracy theories that are repeatedly refuted a zillion times over.

You sound like a Flat Earther when confronted with satellite images of the round Earth. I'm guessing you have no clue about the evidence of advance knowledge of Pearl Harbor by FDR and certain other high officials. Ever heard of the Hoover-Ladd-Early memos that were released in the 1990s? Heard of the 1944 Navy intel message, discovered by Costello and Pineau, that proved that the Winds execute message was in fact intercepted on 12/4/41, just as several Navy intel personnel originally claimed it was? (The intel message notes that the intercept was given the serial number 7001.) Heard of the bomb-plot messages? Heard of the 30 November intercept, copied by Station Hypo, in which one of the Kido Butai carriers, the Akagi, was heard communicating with support vessels on a tactical circuit, a clear indication that the carrier was not in Japanese home waters, which of course debunks the myth that the task force maintained "strict radio silence"?

And would you care to venture an explanation for why the USS Indianapolis was hurriedly sent away from Pearl Harbor less than 48 hours before the attack, without most of its crew? Neither of the cover stories for the strange departure is credible. You don't send a heavy cruiser to take supplies to an island that's only 400 miles away, especially with only a partial crew, when you have plenty of transport ships that could easily perform that job--after all, that's what transport ships are for. Nor do you do bombardment training at the last minute with most of the crew left behind.

 

[DudleySmith]

You sound like a Flat Earther when confronted with satellite images of the round Earth. I'm guessing you have no clue about the evidence of advance knowledge of Pearl Harbor by FDR and certain other high officials. Ever heard of the Hoover-Ladd-Early memos that were released in the 1990s? Heard of the 1944 Navy intel message, discovered by Costello and Pineau, that proved that the Winds execute message was in fact intercepted on 12/4/41, just as several Navy intel personnel originally claimed it was? (The intel message notes that the intercept was given the serial number 7001.) Heard of the bomb-plot messages? Heard of the 30 November intercept, copied by Station Hypo, in which one of the Kido Butai carriers, the Akagi, was heard communicating with support vessels on a tactical circuit, a clear indication that the carrier was not in Japanese home waters, which of course debunks the myth that the task force maintained "strict radio silence"?

And would you care to venture an explanation for why the USS Indianapolis was hurriedly sent away from Pearl Harbor less than 48 hours before the attack, without most of its crew? Neither of the cover stories for the strange departure is credible. You don't send a heavy cruiser to take supplies to an island that's only 400 miles away, especially with only a partial crew, when you have plenty of transport ships that could easily perform that job--after all, that's what transport ships are for. Nor do you do bombardment training at the last minute with most of the crew left behind.

You sound like a loon, and the rubbish you posted pretty much confirms that.