What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Misremembering Pearl Harbor

Doc7505

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
9,151
Reaction score
14,856
Points
2,430
Location
North Carolina

Misremembering Pearl Harbor

The tactically brilliant but strategically crazy attack on Pearl Harbor unleashed incalculable furor against a once sophisticated Japanese empire, which foolishly attacked the United States at peace.
5 Dec. 2021 ~~ By Victor Davis Hanson
Most Americans once were mostly in agreement about what happened on December 7, 1941, 80 years ago this year. But not so much now, given either the neglect of America’s past in the schools or woke revisionism at odds with the truth.


Comment:
On Dec 8th, 1941 Americans woke up to the reality we had been attacked. Three days later we learned that America had been dragged into World War II.
In my logic Japan is guilty of significant war crimes. The Rape of Nanking cost China somewhere around 300k civilians. Japan used Chinese for experiments of torture and they were horrific to all POWs. In Germany one in ten POW died, in Japan it was one in three. We should never forget the Bataan Death March.
If we think of the origins of WWII and the death that followed, think of Fascism. Hitler, Stalin, Hirohito - all wanted resources and used tactics of race and class to fight for ultimate power. It took weak leaders like Neville Chamberlain and others to submit to the growth and fostering of these maniacal leaders.
Is it any different today, different year and different antagonists. Today China seeks for world domination and Russia threaten. While in Europe Russia threaten the Ukraine.
Meanwhile we watch corrupt and weak political leaders within our nation's capital bow and submit to the enemy, aided and abetted by the biased Quisling Media complex; America has been compromised by a cognitively impaired occupant of the White House that is handing over resources to the enemy while Republicans sit silently on the sidelines.
 

Hang on Sloopy

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
11,340
Reaction score
14,675
Points
2,288

Misremembering Pearl Harbor

The tactically brilliant but strategically crazy attack on Pearl Harbor unleashed incalculable furor against a once sophisticated Japanese empire, which foolishly attacked the United States at peace.
5 Dec. 2021 ~~ By Victor Davis Hanson
Most Americans once were mostly in agreement about what happened on December 7, 1941, 80 years ago this year. But not so much now, given either the neglect of America’s past in the schools or woke revisionism at odds with the truth.


Comment:
On Dec 8th, 1941 Americans woke up to the reality we had been attacked. Three days later we learned that America had been dragged into World War II.
In my logic Japan is guilty of significant war crimes. The Rape of Nanking cost China somewhere around 300k civilians. Japan used Chinese for experiments of torture and they were horrific to all POWs. In Germany one in ten POW died, in Japan it was one in three. We should never forget the Bataan Death March.
If we think of the origins of WWII and the death that followed, think of Fascism. Hitler, Stalin, Hirohito - all wanted resources and used tactics of race and class to fight for ultimate power. It took weak leaders like Neville Chamberlain and others to submit to the growth and fostering of these maniacal leaders.
Is it any different today, different year and different antagonists. Today China seeks for world domination and Russia threaten. While in Europe Russia threaten the Ukraine.
Meanwhile we watch corrupt and weak political leaders within our nation's capital bow and submit to the enemy, aided and abetted by the biased Quisling Media complex; America has been compromised by a cognitively impaired occupant of the White House that is handing over resources to the enemy while Republicans sit silently on the sidelines.
Real Conservatives ain't sitting out on the sidelines. The Bush Republicans can eat dog shit and die, their days are numbered politically
 

DGS49

Platinum Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
11,636
Reaction score
6,717
Points
1,065
Location
Pittsburgh
Doc 7505, it is customary and appropriate to use quotations or bold typeset to clearly delineate what words are yours and what words are those of someone else.

VDH is a national treasure. Give him his due, please.
 

MisterBeale

Diamond Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
37,054
Reaction score
23,280
Points
1,905
OP
Doc7505

Doc7505

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
9,151
Reaction score
14,856
Points
2,430
Location
North Carolina
Doc 7505, it is customary and appropriate to use quotations or bold typeset to clearly delineate what words are yours and what words are those of someone else.

VDH is a national treasure. Give him his due, please.
~~~~~~
Thanks for pointing that out. I specifically only used the first paragraph of Mr. Hanson's thesis so that others intereested in reading the article would do so.
Unlike many of of you here, I was alive and aware of what happened on that fateful day December 7th, 1941. My memories of the war are indelibly etched in my memory.
 

braalian

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2021
Messages
708
Reaction score
653
Points
873
Location
SD
I remember a history teacher telling us a story of WWII where an island nation with an overseas empire launched a surprise attack on the docked ships of a former ally to destroy their navy. More than a thousand defenseless sailors were killed as their ships were sunk while still in dock. The island nation did this because they feared what would happen to them, as an island, if they couldn’t control the sea lanes that provided vital resources and protected their empire.

After telling us this story, our teacher asked us which island nation and which surprise attack he was talking about. Naturally we all said he had described Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor.

But he had described the attack at Mers-el-KĂ©bir. In 1940, the British sunk the entire French Mediterranean Fleet, while the ships were in dock with sailors still in them. France was in the process of signing a surrender to Nazi Germany and the British were afraid of the French Fleet (third largest in the world) falling into German hands. 1300 French sailors were killed and it was one of the greatest betrayals in military history.

The point was that it’s the victors who write history. Even the worst crimes can be ignored or glossed over, depending on who’s doing the writing and how you choose to describe something.
 

excalibur

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
6,633
Reaction score
12,101
Points
2,290
Reminds me of the guy who was half Japanese and half black. Every December 7th he'd attack Pearl Bailey.
 

candycorn

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
83,844
Reaction score
22,489
Points
2,180

Misremembering Pearl Harbor

The tactically brilliant but strategically crazy attack on Pearl Harbor unleashed incalculable furor against a once sophisticated Japanese empire, which foolishly attacked the United States at peace.
5 Dec. 2021 ~~ By Victor Davis Hanson
Most Americans once were mostly in agreement about what happened on December 7, 1941, 80 years ago this year. But not so much now, given either the neglect of America’s past in the schools or woke revisionism at odds with the truth.


Comment:
On Dec 8th, 1941 Americans woke up to the reality we had been attacked. Three days later we learned that America had been dragged into World War II.
In my logic Japan is guilty of significant war crimes. The Rape of Nanking cost China somewhere around 300k civilians. Japan used Chinese for experiments of torture and they were horrific to all POWs. In Germany one in ten POW died, in Japan it was one in three. We should never forget the Bataan Death March.
If we think of the origins of WWII and the death that followed, think of Fascism. Hitler, Stalin, Hirohito - all wanted resources and used tactics of race and class to fight for ultimate power. It took weak leaders like Neville Chamberlain and others to submit to the growth and fostering of these maniacal leaders.
Is it any different today, different year and different antagonists. Today China seeks for world domination and Russia threaten. While in Europe Russia threaten the Ukraine.
Meanwhile we watch corrupt and weak political leaders within our nation's capital bow and submit to the enemy, aided and abetted by the biased Quisling Media complex; America has been compromised by a cognitively impaired occupant of the White House that is handing over resources to the enemy while Republicans sit silently on the sidelines.
Apparently the author wasn't watching when Trump negotiated our surrender with the Taliban.
 

candycorn

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
83,844
Reaction score
22,489
Points
2,180
I remember a history teacher telling us a story of WWII where an island nation with an overseas empire launched a surprise attack on the docked ships of a former ally to destroy their navy. More than a thousand defenseless sailors were killed as their ships were sunk while still in dock. The island nation did this because they feared what would happen to them, as an island, if they couldn’t control the sea lanes that provided vital resources and protected their empire.

After telling us this story, our teacher asked us which island nation and which surprise attack he was talking about. Naturally we all said he had described Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor.

But he had described the attack at Mers-el-KĂ©bir. In 1940, the British sunk the entire French Mediterranean Fleet, while the ships were in dock with sailors still in them. France was in the process of signing a surrender to Nazi Germany and the British were afraid of the French Fleet (third largest in the world) falling into German hands. 1300 French sailors were killed and it was one of the greatest betrayals in military history.

The point was that it’s the victors who write history. Even the worst crimes can be ignored or glossed over, depending on who’s doing the writing and how you choose to describe something.
Wow, never heard of that attack. I read about it on Wikipedia just now. Never heard of it.

 

Batcat

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
3,265
Reaction score
3,021
Points
1,938
Apparently the author wasn't watching when Trump negotiated our surrender with the Taliban.
If Trump would have run the withdrawal from Afghanistan it would have went smoothly. Joe Biden fucked it up. “Fuck Joe Biden” or to be politically correct “Let’s Go Brandon.“

I could be wrong but I think we should drop the nation rebuilding bullshit the military industrial complex loves because it facilitates corruption. Our form of representative democracy is difficult to implement at the best in foreign nations with no experience with the concept of freedom.

Our military is really great at destroying stuff. If we absolutely must invade a nation we should just go in and put the nation back in the Middle Ages and leave. Let them rebuild their damned nation. Do that once or twice and nobody will fuck with us except nations like China or Russia that have nukes.

I suspect Trump agrees with me. We don’t get involved unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary and then we fight to WIN and get the hell out once we do. Plus we should have the strongest military in the world as the best defense is a strong offense.

1638863926768.jpeg
 
OP
Doc7505

Doc7505

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
9,151
Reaction score
14,856
Points
2,430
Location
North Carolina
I remember a history teacher telling us a story of WWII where an island nation with an overseas empire launched a surprise attack on the docked ships of a former ally to destroy their navy. More than a thousand defenseless sailors were killed as their ships were sunk while still in dock. The island nation did this because they feared what would happen to them, as an island, if they couldn’t control the sea lanes that provided vital resources and protected their empire.

After telling us this story, our teacher asked us which island nation and which surprise attack he was talking about. Naturally we all said he had described Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor.

But he had described the attack at Mers-el-KĂ©bir. In 1940, the British sunk the entire French Mediterranean Fleet, while the ships were in dock with sailors still in them. France was in the process of signing a surrender to Nazi Germany and the British were afraid of the French Fleet (third largest in the world) falling into German hands. 1300 French sailors were killed and it was one of the greatest betrayals in military history.

The point was that it’s the victors who write history. Even the worst crimes can be ignored or glossed over, depending on who’s doing the writing and how you choose to describe something.

Obviously, the attack on the French Navy after the capitulation of France to Germany was a strategic move. Britain and Germany were at war at the time.
Japan was not at war with America until they began dropping bombs on the Pearl Habor fleet anchored in the Bay.
Funny thing is that Billy Mitchell predicted the coming war against Japan in 1924. "He predicted war between Japan and the US, and a Japanese strike on Pearl Harbor and Clark Field in the Philippines".
 

DudleySmith

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
5,743
Reaction score
3,621
Points
938
Our military is really great at destroying stuff. If we absolutely must invade a nation we should just go in and put the nation back in the Middle Ages and leave. Let them rebuild their damned nation. Do that once or twice and nobody will fuck with us except nations like China or Russia that have nukes.

^This.
 

braalian

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2021
Messages
708
Reaction score
653
Points
873
Location
SD
Obviously, the attack on the French Navy after the capitulation of France to Germany was a strategic move. Britain and Germany were at war at the time.
Japan was not at war with America until they began dropping bombs on the Pearl Habor fleet anchored in the Bay.
Funny thing is that Billy Mitchell predicted the coming war against Japan in 1924. "He predicted war between Japan and the US, and a Japanese strike on Pearl Harbor and Clark Field in the Philippines".

Well, Britain also attacked without declaring war.

America and Japan weren’t at war. Britain and France weren’t at war. Japan attacked the US Navy because they were afraid we *might* interfere in their empire building. Britain attacked the French navy because they were afraid the French ships *might* fall into German hands.

Both attacks were foul play.
 
OP
Doc7505

Doc7505

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
9,151
Reaction score
14,856
Points
2,430
Location
North Carolina
Apparently the author wasn't watching when Trump negotiated our surrender with the Taliban.

The debacle that occurred with Afghanistan is all on Joey Xi Bai Dung. No matter what you write you can't change the half-witted decisions made by Joey Xi beginning Jan 21, 2021 to the present.
 

candycorn

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
83,844
Reaction score
22,489
Points
2,180
If Trump would have run the withdrawal from Afghanistan it would have went smoothly. Joe Biden fucked it up. “Fuck Joe Biden” or to be politically correct “Let’s Go Brandon.“

I could be wrong but I think we should drop the nation rebuilding bullshit the military industrial complex loves because it facilitates corruption. Our form of representative democracy is difficult to implement at the best in foreign nations with no experience with the concept of freedom.

Our military is really great at destroying stuff. If we absolutely must invade a nation we should just go in and put the nation back in the Middle Ages and leave. Let them rebuild their damned nation. Do that once or twice and nobody will fuck with us except nations like China or Russia that have nukes.

I suspect Trump agrees with me. We don’t get involved unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary and then we fight to WIN and get the hell out once we do. Plus we should have the strongest military in the world as the best defense is a strong offense.

View attachment 572734
Yeah, except your blob had 4 years and didn't get us out.

Here is the part where you blame someone else for your blob's miserable fuck up.

3.2.1....
 

candycorn

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
83,844
Reaction score
22,489
Points
2,180
The debacle that occurred with Afghanistan is all on Joey Xi Bai Dung. No matter what you write you can't change the half-witted decisions made by Joey Xi beginning Jan 21, 2021 to the present.

Yeah...Biden's fuck up doesn't change the fact that your blob negotiated a surrender with terrorists. Now does it sonny?
 

Batcat

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
3,265
Reaction score
3,021
Points
1,938

Misremembering Pearl Harbor

The tactically brilliant but strategically crazy attack on Pearl Harbor unleashed incalculable furor against a once sophisticated Japanese empire, which foolishly attacked the United States at peace.
5 Dec. 2021 ~~ By Victor Davis Hanson
Most Americans once were mostly in agreement about what happened on December 7, 1941, 80 years ago this year. But not so much now, given either the neglect of America’s past in the schools or woke revisionism at odds with the truth.


Comment:
On Dec 8th, 1941 Americans woke up to the reality we had been attacked. Three days later we learned that America had been dragged into World War II.
In my logic Japan is guilty of significant war crimes. The Rape of Nanking cost China somewhere around 300k civilians. Japan used Chinese for experiments of torture and they were horrific to all POWs. In Germany one in ten POW died, in Japan it was one in three. We should never forget the Bataan Death March.
If we think of the origins of WWII and the death that followed, think of Fascism. Hitler, Stalin, Hirohito - all wanted resources and used tactics of race and class to fight for ultimate power. It took weak leaders like Neville Chamberlain and others to submit to the growth and fostering of these maniacal leaders.
Is it any different today, different year and different antagonists. Today China seeks for world domination and Russia threaten. While in Europe Russia threaten the Ukraine.
Meanwhile we watch corrupt and weak political leaders within our nation's capital bow and submit to the enemy, aided and abetted by the biased Quisling Media complex; America has been compromised by a cognitively impaired occupant of the White House that is handing over resources to the enemy while Republicans sit silently on the sidelines.
There is considerable money to be made in deals with China. Our elected leadership depends on money in order to be reelected. The money rolls in if they are willing to ignore the bad things the Communist Chinese leadership do to the people in their nation and the threat that China poses to our nation.

Some of our leaders sell their influence to the Chinese and profit big time. Of course there is a “pay back” involved which may not benefit our nation but the money justifies the means to those who sell their influence. Money may not buy happiness but it does buy cocaine and strippers for Hunter Biden and 10% for “the Big Guy.”

Eventually we will finance the Chinese until they reach the point they may just take over our nation without a shot being fired as their military will be far superior to ours. Our leaders will be promised important positions in the highest levels of our new Communist government and they will be happy to go along. Better Red then dead.

A modern day Sun Tzu waiting an updated The Art Of War would point out the best way to defeat another nation is just to buy its leaders.
 
OP
Doc7505

Doc7505

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
9,151
Reaction score
14,856
Points
2,430
Location
North Carolina
Well, Britain also attacked without declaring war.

America and Japan weren’t at war. Britain and France weren’t at war. Japan attacked the US Navy because they were afraid we *might* interfere in their empire building. Britain attacked the French navy because they were afraid the French ships *might* fall into German hands.

Both attacks were foul play.

Excuse me? What planet are you from?
Fact: Nazi Germany began WWII by invading Poland in September 1939 and then France attacked France in May 1940.
Fact: Dunkirk and the withdrawal of British troops from Europe occurred in May 1940.
Fact: Nazi Germany was bombing Britain as of Sept 1940 regularly.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 two years after the start of WWII in Europe. Japan believed if they attacked Pearl Harbor and destroyed the Pacific Fleet along with our carriers America would not be capable of retaliating.
Like today FDR had placed sanctions on Japan making it difficult for Japan to get strategic materials.
Joey Xi is too weak to impose sanctions on any country that threatens America,
You obviously don't know your history, especially American history.
 

Batcat

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
3,265
Reaction score
3,021
Points
1,938
Yeah, except your blob had 4 years and didn't get us out.

Here is the part where you blame someone else for your blob's miserable fuck up.

3.2.1....
Yes, Trump didn’t get us out. He wanted to make damn sure the withdrawal was conducted correctly.

Your wonderful Joe Biden was in a big hurry and screwed everything up.

You matter how hard you try it was Joe who was in charge of the withdrawal.

1638866979890.jpeg


1638867020998.jpeg

1638867106656.jpeg
 

Smokin' OP

Platinum Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
5,990
Reaction score
2,780
Points
918
Location
Florida
Yes, Trump didn’t get us out. He wanted to make damn sure the withdrawal was conducted correctly.

Your wonderful Joe Biden was in a big hurry and screwed everything up.

You matter how hard you try it was Joe who was in charge of the withdrawal.

View attachment 572739

View attachment 572740
View attachment 572741
August 15 2021
One year ago, the Donald released 5,000 Taliban fighters in exchange for a cease-fire to help his flailing presidential campaign, despite strenuous objections from both the Pentagon and the Afghan government. President Ashraf Ghani warned that their release would be a “danger to the world.”

We are finding out that many of these fighters entering Kabul, such as Mawlavi Talib, are top Taliban commanders who oversaw the assaults of the key cities this week. And they go up from there.

Worse, the Taliban leader who is set to take over Afghanistan, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, has Trump to thank for his release.

Donald J. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David the week of Sept. 11 to strike what was essentially a surrender deal, but cancelled after the obvious backlash of hosting the Taliban on 9/11. Instead, he sent Pompeo to Qatar to sign the deal with the Taliban, and announced that he had given the Taliban everything they asked for because “everyone is tired of war.”

Not only did Trump cave to the Taliban by giving them everything they asked for, but no members of the Afghan government were present. None. Trump completely cut them out of the deal.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$120.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top