Minimum wage

[Andylusion]

There were times in my life when the amount i earned failed to cover the expenses my life style demanded.

So, I packed up all my earthly belongings in my little duffel bag and hitch hiked to nearest place where the returns for my labor were more generous.

Along the way I learned to speak English, earned a high school diploma, vowed - successfully - never to do manual labor, ever again, taught myself in my spare time to write beautiful programs in COBOL, and end up comfortably retired after almost forty years of not EVER, hoping to work for minimum wage.

Fantastic. You are a winner, and a model to the next generation that they should follow.

I had the other side. I attempted to learn to do something that had a higher value, but failed. I failed routinely and with great distress.

But I still didn't start screaming and whining that life was unfair, and how society should make my life better.

When my income failed to meet the requirements of my life style.... I simply... cut my life style.

I know this is crazy, but I found that when I stopped buying things I couldn't afford... I could afford the things I bought.

Pearl of wisdom. Write that down.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a ******* roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a **** about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

it's not the government's responsibility to get people skills. never was never will be

it's YOUR responsibility to improve yourself

And this is the attitude that is sending the US downhill, and fast, other countries are going far beyond the US, because they're societies.

How come you're expected to die for your country, but your country isn't expected to educate you?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a ******* roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a **** about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need.

Its up to the US to get people trained?

I always thought that was MY job.

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing

The real world.

You should visit sometime

The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.

Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.

 

[Andylusion]

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a ******* roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a **** about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need.

Its up to the US to get people trained?

I always thought that was MY job.

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing

The real world.

You should visit sometime

The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.

Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.

The US is the world leader in manufacturing. We produced $2.3 Trillion in manufactured goods.

The next highest is Japan with $1.6 Trillion in goods.
Germany is $460 Billion in goods.

The entire EU as a whole, only produced $2 Trillion in goods.

Regardless, when you say "Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be", what exactly are you suggesting?

We force students into the degree programs we want? So when a girl says she wants a degree in nursing, or a snowflake wants a liberal arts degree, we do what about that? Demand they take engineering?

What is your solution to this?

 

[Andylusion]

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a ******* roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a **** about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

it's not the government's responsibility to get people skills. never was never will be

it's YOUR responsibility to improve yourself

And this is the attitude that is sending the US downhill, and fast, other countries are going far beyond the US, because they're societies.

How come you're expected to die for your country, but your country isn't expected to educate you?

No, because in other countries, it's not the countries duty to give you and education there either.

In most of those countries, including Germany, if you don't make the grade, they kick you out, and you don't get an education. Most countries are this way. Only in "entitlement" America, do we have a false belief that it's government's job to give us an education.

In Finland, you don't even go to high school, if you don't get a passing grade. You either do your work, and keep up with your studies, or you don't even reach 9th Grade. You just get kicked out. O

My point is, the burden of success is on the student in Germany. Education there is very tough. Students are not under any illusion that it's societies job to make them succeed.

And that is exactly why they have a higher level of student success.

 

[danielpalos]

Are you smart enough to do anything productive enough that people will pay you to do so?

LOL....

We know you're not. We're trying to educate you in spite of your chosen handicap.

BTW, You choose to be stupid. People here have been trying to educate you.

let's say im not lets say I'm barely smart enough to push a broom or flip a burger? what should I do?

Harass the Judicature for equal protection of the law regarding the legal concept of employment at will in our at-will employment States, so you can apply for unemployment compensation at fourteen dollars an hour, to learn how to do something, eventually.

equal protection of the law regarding the legal concept of employment at will in our at-will employment States, so you can apply for unemployment compensation at fourteen dollars an hour

If you quit you at-will job, you're eligible for at-will unemployment benefits.
The government exercises their will and has decided your benefit is $0. LOL!

Natural rights mean nothing if there are no guns involved; Person on the fantastical, right wing?

Natural rights

Have **** all to do with your whining for free money.

supply side economics; if it can be used to bailout the rich, it can be used to bailout the poor. equal protection of the law.

 

[danielpalos]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If you have no skills, and refuse to get skills... if you refuse to work hard enough to earn more than minimum wage... then you get what you get.

That's how life works. If you hire someone to put a roof on your home, and he shows up late, barely works, takes a smoke break every 15 minutes... for 15 minutes... and does just barely enough to make do.....

when that guy comes to you and says you need to pay him $200 a day, and it will take him all month to do your roof.... will you pay it?

Similarly, are you going to pay $20 for a cheap fast food burger, because the pot smoking high school drop out, can't live on minimum wage?

Because this is the reality. You pay the bill. YOU do.

Over in Norway, the cost of a fast food burger from McDonald is $16. They pay their employees $16/hour.

All the cost of that labor is passed onto you. So when you demand employees earn more money, you are demanding you yourself pay them. You are the one who pays that bill.

Are you going to pay $16 for a cheap low quality burger? Most people are not. I can personally speak from experience. I used to go to Chipotle before the minimum wage went up. A chicken burrito used to be $4.75. Today after the minimum wage has gone up, it's $6.90. I don't go there anymore. That's too expensive.

This is why Norway has a tiny fraction of the fast food stores that we do. It's not because "Europeans eat more healthy!" and all the made up BS people claim.

It's simply that it's too expensive. No one is going to pay $16 for a really cheap low quality burger.

We know that because they do buy cheaper low quality foods. Norway has a booming Hot Dog business. Because self-employed Hot Dog vendors are all over Norway.
The Girl Who Ate Everything: Bergen, Day 3: Hot Dogs, Lung Malfunction, and Potetkjelleren

Since they are self-employed, the hot dogs are cheaper than burgers. So hot dogs are very popular, while McDonalds is not.

The minimum wage would have about the same effect here in the long wrong. More people would be standing out in the rain, and cold, selling hot dogs, and more people would be unemployed looking for work since low-paying jobs at stores wouldn't exist.

View attachment 103537

Seattle's minimum wage hike, has had exactly the effect that we predicted it would, that economists for thousands of years said it would.

We were right, and have been proven right by the facts.

The only question is will the left-wing have the moral integrity and mental capacity to admit it.

It is about privatizing costs not socializing costs. Only the right complains about the loss of free stuff when they get a decent minimum wage.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers

Boot 20 million illegals and the number of jobs available to American low-skill workers will increase.
Wages for some will increase due to supply and demand.

Yeah, and for less than minimum wage.... and they'll just have to live under the bridge, or take money from the govt to live.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

Liberal states are the most expensive. Who'd have expected?

Most expensive, have the best education, have the best quality of life, who'd have expected?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers

Boot 20 million illegals and the number of jobs available to American low-skill workers will increase.
Wages for some will increase due to supply and demand.

Yeah, and for less than minimum wage.... and they'll just have to live under the bridge, or take money from the govt to live.

Wages will increase if you boot the illegals competing with them.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If you have no skills, and refuse to get skills... if you refuse to work hard enough to earn more than minimum wage... then you get what you get.

That's how life works. If you hire someone to put a roof on your home, and he shows up late, barely works, takes a smoke break every 15 minutes... for 15 minutes... and does just barely enough to make do.....

when that guy comes to you and says you need to pay him $200 a day, and it will take him all month to do your roof.... will you pay it?

Similarly, are you going to pay $20 for a cheap fast food burger, because the pot smoking high school drop out, can't live on minimum wage?

Because this is the reality. You pay the bill. YOU do.

Over in Norway, the cost of a fast food burger from McDonald is $16. They pay their employees $16/hour.

All the cost of that labor is passed onto you. So when you demand employees earn more money, you are demanding you yourself pay them. You are the one who pays that bill.

Are you going to pay $16 for a cheap low quality burger? Most people are not. I can personally speak from experience. I used to go to Chipotle before the minimum wage went up. A chicken burrito used to be $4.75. Today after the minimum wage has gone up, it's $6.90. I don't go there anymore. That's too expensive.

This is why Norway has a tiny fraction of the fast food stores that we do. It's not because "Europeans eat more healthy!" and all the made up BS people claim.

It's simply that it's too expensive. No one is going to pay $16 for a really cheap low quality burger.

We know that because they do buy cheaper low quality foods. Norway has a booming Hot Dog business. Because self-employed Hot Dog vendors are all over Norway.
The Girl Who Ate Everything: Bergen, Day 3: Hot Dogs, Lung Malfunction, and Potetkjelleren

Since they are self-employed, the hot dogs are cheaper than burgers. So hot dogs are very popular, while McDonalds is not.

The minimum wage would have about the same effect here in the long wrong. More people would be standing out in the rain, and cold, selling hot dogs, and more people would be unemployed looking for work since low-paying jobs at stores wouldn't exist.

View attachment 103537

Seattle's minimum wage hike, has had exactly the effect that we predicted it would, that economists for thousands of years said it would.

We were right, and have been proven right by the facts.

The only question is will the left-wing have the moral integrity and mental capacity to admit it.

I'm not disagreeing with what you've said, the point isn't what you've said. Having people at the bottom of the pile not earning much is one thing. Having people working who are having to take govt subsidies the whole time because they're not paid enough even to have a place to live is something quite different. This is the point. If the company isn't paying for this, then someone is, or there becomes a massive social problem. Think slums.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a ******* roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a **** about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need.

Its up to the US to get people trained?

I always thought that was MY job.

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing

The real world.

You should visit sometime

The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.

Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.

The US is the world leader in manufacturing. We produced $2.3 Trillion in manufactured goods.

The next highest is Japan with $1.6 Trillion in goods.
Germany is $460 Billion in goods.

The entire EU as a whole, only produced $2 Trillion in goods.

Regardless, when you say "Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be", what exactly are you suggesting?

We force students into the degree programs we want? So when a girl says she wants a degree in nursing, or a snowflake wants a liberal arts degree, we do what about that? Demand they take engineering?

View attachment 103549
What is your solution to this?

Again, the US now might be the leader, but countries like China are emerging and doing what the US does cheaper. Trying to stem this isn't going to work, other than to make all goods more expensive (and people can't even afford a place to stay as it is).

http://www.unido.org/fileadmin/user...ts/World_manufacturing_production_2016_Q3.pdf

Figure 4 page 12
Growth in developing countries is growing fast, in developed countries not so fast or going backwards.

Table 1 page 13 shows that Europe has 24.1% of manufacturing, North America has 20.6%. China has 19.9% and rising, FAST (7% growth a year right now).

How do you solve the problem of someone wants to do one degree and you want them to do others? Limit how many places there are for certain degrees, push certain subjects at school, tell kids how much money they'll earn if they do this job or that job. You know, it's not that hard.

 

[Andylusion]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers

Boot 20 million illegals and the number of jobs available to American low-skill workers will increase.
Wages for some will increase due to supply and demand.

Yeah, and for less than minimum wage.... and they'll just have to live under the bridge, or take money from the govt to live.

I earned less than minimum wage, and I didn't do either.

 

[Auld Phart]

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a ******* roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a **** about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need.

Its up to the US to get people trained?

I always thought that was MY job.

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing

The real world.

You should visit sometime

The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.

Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.

You're right, you don't get it.

It's not the governments job to train people, it's the persons job to get the training necessary to get them ahead in society.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If you have no skills, and refuse to get skills... if you refuse to work hard enough to earn more than minimum wage... then you get what you get.

That's how life works. If you hire someone to put a roof on your home, and he shows up late, barely works, takes a smoke break every 15 minutes... for 15 minutes... and does just barely enough to make do.....

when that guy comes to you and says you need to pay him $200 a day, and it will take him all month to do your roof.... will you pay it?

Similarly, are you going to pay $20 for a cheap fast food burger, because the pot smoking high school drop out, can't live on minimum wage?

Because this is the reality. You pay the bill. YOU do.

Over in Norway, the cost of a fast food burger from McDonald is $16. They pay their employees $16/hour.

All the cost of that labor is passed onto you. So when you demand employees earn more money, you are demanding you yourself pay them. You are the one who pays that bill.

Are you going to pay $16 for a cheap low quality burger? Most people are not. I can personally speak from experience. I used to go to Chipotle before the minimum wage went up. A chicken burrito used to be $4.75. Today after the minimum wage has gone up, it's $6.90. I don't go there anymore. That's too expensive.

This is why Norway has a tiny fraction of the fast food stores that we do. It's not because "Europeans eat more healthy!" and all the made up BS people claim.

It's simply that it's too expensive. No one is going to pay $16 for a really cheap low quality burger.

We know that because they do buy cheaper low quality foods. Norway has a booming Hot Dog business. Because self-employed Hot Dog vendors are all over Norway.
The Girl Who Ate Everything: Bergen, Day 3: Hot Dogs, Lung Malfunction, and Potetkjelleren

Since they are self-employed, the hot dogs are cheaper than burgers. So hot dogs are very popular, while McDonalds is not.

The minimum wage would have about the same effect here in the long wrong. More people would be standing out in the rain, and cold, selling hot dogs, and more people would be unemployed looking for work since low-paying jobs at stores wouldn't exist.

View attachment 103537

Seattle's minimum wage hike, has had exactly the effect that we predicted it would, that economists for thousands of years said it would.

We were right, and have been proven right by the facts.

The only question is will the left-wing have the moral integrity and mental capacity to admit it.

I'm not disagreeing with what you've said, the point isn't what you've said. Having people at the bottom of the pile not earning much is one thing. Having people working who are having to take govt subsidies the whole time because they're not paid enough even to have a place to live is something quite different. This is the point. If the company isn't paying for this, then someone is, or there becomes a massive social problem. Think slums.

No pal those companies are subsidizing the government at the rate they put at per person for social services so they don't riot and get those votes.


Go ahead raise up MW to say $15 an hour and watch those low profit services go out of business.


The government pays welfare folks that amount with tax dollars..

companies pay those wages with profits.. You eat into those profits till it hits red.. Well no more of those jobs.

.


Simple economics 101

 

[eflatminor]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

Not everyone that works a menial job is paying the rent. He's a kid hoping to build a resume, maybe save a few bucks. He's a student living with a bunch of roommates. Maybe it's an retired lady that wants to get out of the house and engage with people. It's also the simple man, uneducated and perhaps slow, but is fully capable of sweeping the floors.

Your minimum wage laws PREVENT those people from working at all.

Shame on you.

 

[Andylusion]

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a ******* roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a **** about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need.

Its up to the US to get people trained?

I always thought that was MY job.

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing

The real world.

You should visit sometime

The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.

Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.

The US is the world leader in manufacturing. We produced $2.3 Trillion in manufactured goods.

The next highest is Japan with $1.6 Trillion in goods.
Germany is $460 Billion in goods.

The entire EU as a whole, only produced $2 Trillion in goods.

Regardless, when you say "Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be", what exactly are you suggesting?

We force students into the degree programs we want? So when a girl says she wants a degree in nursing, or a snowflake wants a liberal arts degree, we do what about that? Demand they take engineering?

View attachment 103549
What is your solution to this?

Again, the US now might be the leader, but countries like China are emerging and doing what the US does cheaper. Trying to stem this isn't going to work, other than to make all goods more expensive (and people can't even afford a place to stay as it is).

http://www.unido.org/fileadmin/user...ts/World_manufacturing_production_2016_Q3.pdf

Figure 4 page 12
Growth in developing countries is growing fast, in developed countries not so fast or going backwards.

Table 1 page 13 shows that Europe has 24.1% of manufacturing, North America has 20.6%. China has 19.9% and rising, FAST (7% growth a year right now).

How do you solve the problem of someone wants to do one degree and you want them to do others? Limit how many places there are for certain degrees, push certain subjects at school, tell kids how much money they'll earn if they do this job or that job. You know, it's not that hard.

That's not really surprising. Growth is always faster when you are catching up, than blazing the trail.

I would be shocked if China wasn't growing faster. That has nothing to do with their system being better, or ours being worse.

Remember just from the population numbers alone, they will over take the US no matter how fantastic our system is, or how bad theirs is.

If we have 100,000 people making $50,000 a year in goods... that's $5 Million in GDP.

If they have 1 billion people making $10,000 in goods a year, that's $10 Trillion in GDP.

The idea that we will always be the world leader economically is absolutely impossible no matter what economic, educational, or cultural policies you put in place.

The only way we do that, is if all those other countries re-adopted socialists policies that destroy their economies again. But there is no possible way, regardless of anything government does here, that is going to allow a country of 310 million keep leadership over a country of 1.3 Billion people. Can't happen.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a ******* roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a **** about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

it's not the government's responsibility to get people skills. never was never will be

it's YOUR responsibility to improve yourself

And this is the attitude that is sending the US downhill, and fast, other countries are going far beyond the US, because they're societies.

How come you're expected to die for your country, but your country isn't expected to educate you?

No, because in other countries, it's not the countries duty to give you and education there either.

In most of those countries, including Germany, if you don't make the grade, they kick you out, and you don't get an education. Most countries are this way. Only in "entitlement" America, do we have a false belief that it's government's job to give us an education.

In Finland, you don't even go to high school, if you don't get a passing grade. You either do your work, and keep up with your studies, or you don't even reach 9th Grade. You just get kicked out. O

My point is, the burden of success is on the student in Germany. Education there is very tough. Students are not under any illusion that it's societies job to make them succeed.

And that is exactly why they have a higher level of student success.

Sure it is. In other countries they have plans about what they want from their society, and they go out and try and achieve this. In Austria they have HTL schools alongside Gymnasiums and normal High Schools. The HTL is a technical based school and does various subjects from interior design through to computer engineering. They have decided what they need as a society, they make enough places to get those people, so that when the kids are 18 they have enough experience to leave school and walk into one of those jobs at a decent level of expertise.

In the UK Labour started to move towards this, though doing it within the ordinary Comprehensive School system, the Tories came in (typically) and destroyed it all so everyone could go study English Literature and other academic subjects, because hey, they did well in that system so everyone should do well, right? WRONG.

Yes, in Germany if you don't make the grade you get kicked out. This doesn't have anything to do with anything. However the Germans do make their education system in a certain way so that kids WILL SUCCEED for the most part. There will always be failures, we're not talking about the failures here, we're talking about people who actually WORK and yet can't afford accommodation. In Germany they do actually have minimum wage. 8.50 euros an hour, higher than the US and enough to live off.

Also your Finnish anecdote is bullshit.

Education in Finland - Wikipedia

"a nine-year compulsory basic comprehensive school (starting at age seven and ending at the age of sixteen);"

They have to stay in school until the age of 16,

 

[frigidweirdo]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers

Boot 20 million illegals and the number of jobs available to American low-skill workers will increase.
Wages for some will increase due to supply and demand.

Yeah, and for less than minimum wage.... and they'll just have to live under the bridge, or take money from the govt to live.

Wages will increase if you boot the illegals competing with them.

Maybe, and then US companies become less competitive and then the rich people start moaning, so then they start telling the politicians to make sure more illegals get in.....

 

[danielpalos]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

clearly if you can't make more than MW you need to attain the skills that will garner more pay in the marketplace

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers, and people should be able to afford accommodation, food etc, right? We're not talking about having the latest smart phone here, we're talking about a roof over your head, something everyone who is working should be able to afford with 1/3 of their wage.

Again, the problem is that there will always be minimum wage workers

Boot 20 million illegals and the number of jobs available to American low-skill workers will increase.
Wages for some will increase due to supply and demand.

Yeah, and for less than minimum wage.... and they'll just have to live under the bridge, or take money from the govt to live.

Wages will increase if you boot the illegals competing with them.

how much will a war on illegals cost? more financing?