Minimum wage

[owebo]

The Oligarchs who control FOX News want to hold the minimum wage low. That way they can inflate welfare statistics, and blame it on the "Entitlement Party". They like to claim that almost 50% of Americans are on welfare. Disabled Vets make up 15%, so we're left with 35%. Of that most are Food Stamp recipients. To qualify for Food Stamps, an individual has to have an income below $20-22K, depending on state. Full time minimum wage earners make about $14K - thus the income gap. Again, this is exactly the way that the Oligarchs want it.

You mean the liberals who own FOX news?

 

[Darkwind]

what if your too stupid to do anything else?

Are you smart enough to do anything productive enough that people will pay you to do so?

LOL....

We know you're not. We're trying to educate you in spite of your chosen handicap.

BTW, You choose to be stupid. People here have been trying to educate you.

let's say im not lets say I'm barely smart enough to push a broom or flip a burger? what should I do?

How is that anyone's problem but yours?

 

[PurpleOwl]

what if your too stupid to do anything else?

Are you smart enough to do anything productive enough that people will pay you to do so?

LOL....

We know you're not. We're trying to educate you in spite of your chosen handicap.

BTW, You choose to be stupid. People here have been trying to educate you.

let's say im not lets say I'm barely smart enough to push a broom or flip a burger? what should I do?

How is that anyone's problem but yours?

How is you bitching about your taxes anyone's problem but yours?

 

[owebo]

what if your too stupid to do anything else?

Are you smart enough to do anything productive enough that people will pay you to do so?

LOL....

We know you're not. We're trying to educate you in spite of your chosen handicap.

BTW, You choose to be stupid. People here have been trying to educate you.

let's say im not lets say I'm barely smart enough to push a broom or flip a burger? what should I do?

How is that anyone's problem but yours?

How is you bitching about your taxes anyone's problem but yours?

So I can stop paying taxes and fix my problem?

 

[Skull Pilot]

That's funny

don't believe in equality in the, "hard work" sector? i can work harder than most any rich guy. i deserve my bailout more, since i practice a work ethic from the, historical, Age of Iron.

You want to be paid 14 dollars an hour for not working

That is NOT a work ethic

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Taken for free?
How many tax deductions have you taken in your lifetime?

This is why I am for a flat tax on gross income it gets rid of all the crap

 

[Wyatt earp]

what if your too stupid to do anything else?

Are you smart enough to do anything productive enough that people will pay you to do so?

LOL....

We know you're not. We're trying to educate you in spite of your chosen handicap.

BTW, You choose to be stupid. People here have been trying to educate you.

let's say im not lets say I'm barely smart enough to push a broom or flip a burger? what should I do?

How is that anyone's problem but yours?

How is you bitching about your taxes anyone's problem but yours?

Huh?


Who the **** made the fucked up tax code?


Who got inbed with the public unions?


**** you ...



.

 

[frigidweirdo]

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

It's nice that you bring up the Native Americans. They have been given "subsidies" often as a way of keeping them down. They have suffered massively at the hands of the US govt and the people in general couldn't give a damn.

But yes, I agree with you that subsidies used wrongly have a negative impact. You're not really telling me anything I don't agree with. My personal view is that workers should not get money unless they've worked for 5 years. Kids who are struggling before this would get money if they went back into some kind of education AND achieved certain goals. This education could be things like job training.

The question is why govt is so messed up. I mean, if you own a business with many shops and you hire a manager for one of the shops and he does bad things, why do you keep him? But when it comes to elections the people are electing people who don't have the interests of the people at heart, they're messing up the system. Why does this happen? It happens because voters don't have a clue, don't educate themselves. People come in this forum and talk absolute crap all the time. One guy said he was a Nationalist. I told him to ignore -isms and -ists and just go and find out information and debate it. His response "I'm a Nationalist", basically he had no interest in finding out the truth, he just wanted to promote his "view" of the world. How many people are like this? Too many.

My answer would be that inherently government is about getting elected. Especially since people on the left-wing, hate people who are in business.

See if Trump had lost... it wouldn't mean much. He'd go back to being a multi-Billionaire business owner.

But when Hillary lost, it was crushing for her, even according to her own words. Al Gore it was crushing, according to his own words.

Why? Because they don't have anything else. So to a career politicians, they will do whatever they have to, to stay in power. It's all about doing whatever gets votes.

Well... welfare gets votes. Politicians know that "give me give me give me" is the way to gain a following. Bernie Sanders was all about free education. (which is a terrible idea), but great for getting a bunch of moron college kids to cheer him on.

But "let's cut welfare and encourage people to work", doesn't sell.

Of course people don't have a clue. That's Democracy. Rule of the ignorant. The more people you give the right to vote, the more politicians will play them like a fiddle.

You really think my lady co-worker with 3-kids, and watches TV all day after work, is going to sit down, pull out a history book, and start reading on the history of the Minimum wage? Or how health care really works in Cuba? Of course not. A: She hates political talk. B: She doesn't have the time with 3 kids. C: CSI is far more entertaining.

So when someone stands up and says "free everything!" That sounds pretty good! "Welfare for Native Americans!" That makes her feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Welcome to Democracy dude. That's how it works.

Wow somehow you manage to make this a problem of the left, as if the right doesn't participate in this charade too.

To Trump he'd have gone back to being a millionaire, and feel like he lost and never admit it was crushing. But to Hillary she'd admit it, what does that say? Quite frankly I couldn't give a damn, Hillary put her life into politics, Trump put a year or two.

I've known people on the left and I've not really seen people who believe they get votes for welfare. They believe welfare is a way of making things fairer somehow. That's not me saying there aren't people who think like this, just that there are those who believe it is something else. Many on the left actually do care about people, this might be misguided, but they're actually thinking about other people. Perhaps they're thinking only about their own people, I'm not sure, depends on the people.

But "free everything" doesn't seem to be the reason people are voting for the Democrats. They're buying into something quite different, and the right are buying into something too. They're literally being sold something they don't actually want, and billions is being spent on telling people how to think, and the US is far more polarized than other first world countries simply because there are two trains of "thought" and people choose one or the other and that's it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

don't believe in equality in the, "hard work" sector? i can work harder than most any rich guy. i deserve my bailout more, since i practice a work ethic from the, historical, Age of Iron.

You want to be paid 14 dollars an hour for not working

That is NOT a work ethic

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Taken for free?
How many tax deductions have you taken in your lifetime?

This is why I am for a flat tax on gross income it gets rid of all the crap

I've never had a tax deduction in my life. But flat tax is inherently unfair as those who earn more tend to use more of the services that govt provides and therefore should be paying a higher percentage.

 

[danielpalos]

don't believe in equality in the, "hard work" sector? i can work harder than most any rich guy. i deserve my bailout more, since i practice a work ethic from the, historical, Age of Iron.

You want to be paid 14 dollars an hour for not working

That is NOT a work ethic

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

 

[danielpalos]

Sorry but there is no way in hell you own even one business
It's not the employers fault if an employee who no longer works for him can find a job or not

If a person doesn't want to be at the mercy of others for work then he can work for himself

talk is cheap; most small businesses fail due to under-capitalization.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation, provides a bailout.

A bailout for who? Lazy shits like you who would choose not to work?

i am willing to work harder than any rich guy; so, i deserve a bailout.

That's funny

"i am willing to work harder than any rich guy; so, i deserve a bailout."

Sorry, but I had to respond to that.

The guy I currently work for... He arrives at work at 7 AM. He'll leave work at 7 PM, to as late as 11 PM. He will mop the floor himself.... and I've seen him empty his own trash can.

If product misses the shipping truck, he'll load up his personal Jaguire with customer product, and drive it personally to FedEx or UPS.

I've seen him come in on Saturday, and Sunday. There is not one person in the entire plant of 200 people, that works as many hours as he does. Not one.

When someone says "I work harder than any rich guy"..... I doubt it.

Moreover, working hard doesn't make you deserve anything. You deserve what people are willing to pay you, and nothing more.

Yes, but will that rich guy dig ditches in front of car washers all day, for the minimum wage.

anyone will work more diligently, for one hundred dollars an hour.

 

[Rustic]

You want to be paid 14 dollars an hour for not working

That is NOT a work ethic

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Taken for free?
How many tax deductions have you taken in your lifetime?

This is why I am for a flat tax on gross income it gets rid of all the crap

I've never had a tax deduction in my life. But flat tax is inherently unfair as those who earn more tend to use more of the services that govt provides and therefore should be paying a higher percentage.

 

[Rustic]

You want to be paid 14 dollars an hour for not working

That is NOT a work ethic

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You want to be paid 14 dollars an hour for not working

That is NOT a work ethic

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Taken for free?
How many tax deductions have you taken in your lifetime?

This is why I am for a flat tax on gross income it gets rid of all the crap

I've never had a tax deduction in my life. But flat tax is inherently unfair as those who earn more tend to use more of the services that govt provides and therefore should be paying a higher percentage.

of course you have

You get a personal deduction. mortgage deduction, child deduction and many more

And no those who earn more use less services. They put their kids in private schools yet still pay for public schools for example they don't use roads any more or less than anyone else they certainly don't call the cops more often

and they would pay more with a flat tax than people who make less

a lower flat rate on all income no matter what the source gets rid of all the bullshit in the tax code and will save us billions a year in enforcement not to mention tax preparation

 

[Skull Pilot]

You want to be paid 14 dollars an hour for not working

That is NOT a work ethic

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

no you are just renaming welfare to unemployment

 

[Rustic]

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

It's nice that you bring up the Native Americans. They have been given "subsidies" often as a way of keeping them down. They have suffered massively at the hands of the US govt and the people in general couldn't give a damn.

But yes, I agree with you that subsidies used wrongly have a negative impact. You're not really telling me anything I don't agree with. My personal view is that workers should not get money unless they've worked for 5 years. Kids who are struggling before this would get money if they went back into some kind of education AND achieved certain goals. This education could be things like job training.

The question is why govt is so messed up. I mean, if you own a business with many shops and you hire a manager for one of the shops and he does bad things, why do you keep him? But when it comes to elections the people are electing people who don't have the interests of the people at heart, they're messing up the system. Why does this happen? It happens because voters don't have a clue, don't educate themselves. People come in this forum and talk absolute crap all the time. One guy said he was a Nationalist. I told him to ignore -isms and -ists and just go and find out information and debate it. His response "I'm a Nationalist", basically he had no interest in finding out the truth, he just wanted to promote his "view" of the world. How many people are like this? Too many.

My answer would be that inherently government is about getting elected. Especially since people on the left-wing, hate people who are in business.

See if Trump had lost... it wouldn't mean much. He'd go back to being a multi-Billionaire business owner.

But when Hillary lost, it was crushing for her, even according to her own words. Al Gore it was crushing, according to his own words.

Why? Because they don't have anything else. So to a career politicians, they will do whatever they have to, to stay in power. It's all about doing whatever gets votes.

Well... welfare gets votes. Politicians know that "give me give me give me" is the way to gain a following. Bernie Sanders was all about free education. (which is a terrible idea), but great for getting a bunch of moron college kids to cheer him on.

But "let's cut welfare and encourage people to work", doesn't sell.

Of course people don't have a clue. That's Democracy. Rule of the ignorant. The more people you give the right to vote, the more politicians will play them like a fiddle.

You really think my lady co-worker with 3-kids, and watches TV all day after work, is going to sit down, pull out a history book, and start reading on the history of the Minimum wage? Or how health care really works in Cuba? Of course not. A: She hates political talk. B: She doesn't have the time with 3 kids. C: CSI is far more entertaining.

So when someone stands up and says "free everything!" That sounds pretty good! "Welfare for Native Americans!" That makes her feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Welcome to Democracy dude. That's how it works.

Wow somehow you manage to make this a problem of the left, as if the right doesn't participate in this charade too.

To Trump he'd have gone back to being a millionaire, and feel like he lost and never admit it was crushing. But to Hillary she'd admit it, what does that say? Quite frankly I couldn't give a damn, Hillary put her life into politics, Trump put a year or two.

I've known people on the left and I've not really seen people who believe they get votes for welfare. They believe welfare is a way of making things fairer somehow. That's not me saying there aren't people who think like this, just that there are those who believe it is something else. Many on the left actually do care about people, this might be misguided, but they're actually thinking about other people. Perhaps they're thinking only about their own people, I'm not sure, depends on the people.

But "free everything" doesn't seem to be the reason people are voting for the Democrats. They're buying into something quite different, and the right are buying into something too. They're literally being sold something they don't actually want, and billions is being spent on telling people how to think, and the US is far more polarized than other first world countries simply because there are two trains of "thought" and people choose one or the other and that's it.

Getting along is way over-rated... fact

 

[danielpalos]

You want to be paid 14 dollars an hour for not working

That is NOT a work ethic

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Prove it? Okay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/donald-trump-tax-breaks-real-estate.html?_r=0

"
A Trump Empire Built on Inside Connections and $885 Million in Tax Breaks"


Donald Trump: Developer has thrived with government's generosity

"From his first high-profile project in New York City in the 1970s to his recent campaigns to reduce taxes on property he owns around the country, Trump has displayed a consistent pattern. He courted public officials, sought their backing for government tax breaks under extraordinarily beneficial terms and fought any resistance to deals he negotiated."

"Karen Burstein, a former auditor general of New York City, reviewed a major Trump project in the 1980s and concluded he had "cheated" the city out of nearly $2.9 million. Decades later, Burstein said she was still appalled at the way Trump operated."

"Referring to how he managed to win a 40-year tax abatement for rebuilding a crumbling hotel at Grand Central Station — a deal that in the first decade cost taxpayers $60 million"

"Trump also sought access to a federal program that would have guaranteed a $356-million low-interest loan in exchange for designating a percentage of the units for lower-income families."

"He eventually settled for a $34-million reduction, which local officials said cost millions in improperly reduced tax revenue."

"In Las Vegas, Trump's goal was to lower the taxable value of the recently constructed Trump International Hotel and Tower. His team, which included the former chairman of the county Board of Equalization — the agency that decides tax matters — won a reduction last year in the taxable value from $180 million to $8.6 million."

Donald Trump Has Mastered the Art of the Tax Break

"
The exemption, valued at $163.775 million in total on commercial property taxes, began in 2004 and ends in 2016."

should the poor have to care how much the rich make and how they make it? if not, then the rich should care about how much the poor make or how they make it. equality is a challenge, for the right wing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Prove it? Okay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/donald-trump-tax-breaks-real-estate.html?_r=0

"
A Trump Empire Built on Inside Connections and $885 Million in Tax Breaks"


Donald Trump: Developer has thrived with government's generosity

"From his first high-profile project in New York City in the 1970s to his recent campaigns to reduce taxes on property he owns around the country, Trump has displayed a consistent pattern. He courted public officials, sought their backing for government tax breaks under extraordinarily beneficial terms and fought any resistance to deals he negotiated."

"Karen Burstein, a former auditor general of New York City, reviewed a major Trump project in the 1980s and concluded he had "cheated" the city out of nearly $2.9 million. Decades later, Burstein said she was still appalled at the way Trump operated."

"Referring to how he managed to win a 40-year tax abatement for rebuilding a crumbling hotel at Grand Central Station — a deal that in the first decade cost taxpayers $60 million"

"Trump also sought access to a federal program that would have guaranteed a $356-million low-interest loan in exchange for designating a percentage of the units for lower-income families."

"He eventually settled for a $34-million reduction, which local officials said cost millions in improperly reduced tax revenue."

"In Las Vegas, Trump's goal was to lower the taxable value of the recently constructed Trump International Hotel and Tower. His team, which included the former chairman of the county Board of Equalization — the agency that decides tax matters — won a reduction last year in the taxable value from $180 million to $8.6 million."

Donald Trump Has Mastered the Art of the Tax Break

"
The exemption, valued at $163.775 million in total on commercial property taxes, began in 2004 and ends in 2016."

should the poor have to care how much the rich make and how they make it? if not, then the rich should care about how much the poor make or how they make it. equality is a challenge, for the right wing.

getting paid for doing nothing is not making money it is taking money

 

[danielpalos]

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

It's nice that you bring up the Native Americans. They have been given "subsidies" often as a way of keeping them down. They have suffered massively at the hands of the US govt and the people in general couldn't give a damn.

But yes, I agree with you that subsidies used wrongly have a negative impact. You're not really telling me anything I don't agree with. My personal view is that workers should not get money unless they've worked for 5 years. Kids who are struggling before this would get money if they went back into some kind of education AND achieved certain goals. This education could be things like job training.

The question is why govt is so messed up. I mean, if you own a business with many shops and you hire a manager for one of the shops and he does bad things, why do you keep him? But when it comes to elections the people are electing people who don't have the interests of the people at heart, they're messing up the system. Why does this happen? It happens because voters don't have a clue, don't educate themselves. People come in this forum and talk absolute crap all the time. One guy said he was a Nationalist. I told him to ignore -isms and -ists and just go and find out information and debate it. His response "I'm a Nationalist", basically he had no interest in finding out the truth, he just wanted to promote his "view" of the world. How many people are like this? Too many.

My answer would be that inherently government is about getting elected. Especially since people on the left-wing, hate people who are in business.

See if Trump had lost... it wouldn't mean much. He'd go back to being a multi-Billionaire business owner.

But when Hillary lost, it was crushing for her, even according to her own words. Al Gore it was crushing, according to his own words.

Why? Because they don't have anything else. So to a career politicians, they will do whatever they have to, to stay in power. It's all about doing whatever gets votes.

Well... welfare gets votes. Politicians know that "give me give me give me" is the way to gain a following. Bernie Sanders was all about free education. (which is a terrible idea), but great for getting a bunch of moron college kids to cheer him on.

But "let's cut welfare and encourage people to work", doesn't sell.

Of course people don't have a clue. That's Democracy. Rule of the ignorant. The more people you give the right to vote, the more politicians will play them like a fiddle.

You really think my lady co-worker with 3-kids, and watches TV all day after work, is going to sit down, pull out a history book, and start reading on the history of the Minimum wage? Or how health care really works in Cuba? Of course not. A: She hates political talk. B: She doesn't have the time with 3 kids. C: CSI is far more entertaining.

So when someone stands up and says "free everything!" That sounds pretty good! "Welfare for Native Americans!" That makes her feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Welcome to Democracy dude. That's how it works.

let's cut our drug war. that doesn't sell either, and even the right claims it is a bad idea and we need to lower taxes.

 

[danielpalos]

The Oligarchs who control FOX News want to hold the minimum wage low. That way they can inflate welfare statistics, and blame it on the "Entitlement Party". They like to claim that almost 50% of Americans are on welfare. Disabled Vets make up 15%, so we're left with 35%. Of that most are Food Stamp recipients. To qualify for Food Stamps, an individual has to have an income below $20-22K, depending on state. Full time minimum wage earners make about $14K - thus the income gap. Again, this is exactly the way that the Oligarchs want it.

It is the national socialist party that wants a drug war instead of "starving that beast" to lower taxes. cognitive dissonance, is all the right wing really has.

 

[frigidweirdo]

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Taken for free?
How many tax deductions have you taken in your lifetime?

This is why I am for a flat tax on gross income it gets rid of all the crap

I've never had a tax deduction in my life. But flat tax is inherently unfair as those who earn more tend to use more of the services that govt provides and therefore should be paying a higher percentage.

of course you have

You get a personal deduction. mortgage deduction, child deduction and many more

And no those who earn more use less services. They put their kids in private schools yet still pay for public schools for example they don't use roads any more or less than anyone else they certainly don't call the cops more often

and they would pay more with a flat tax than people who make less

a lower flat rate on all income no matter what the source gets rid of all the bullshit in the tax code and will save us billions a year in enforcement not to mention tax preparation

Assuming I have a mortgage, assuming I have children, assuming many things. Assuming I'm American, assuming I work in the US, assuming many more things beyond that.

You don't seem to understand that the rich really do use more of those services. Who do you think benefits from US soldiers going off to Iraq to die exactly? It's not the poor, I'll tell you that.

Yes, they're pay more, but they pay more now anyway, it just wouldn't be a fair "more". Coming at me with little soundbites isn't going to improve your argument.