Megachurches Still Packing Them In!

[Blues Man]

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

 

[BrokeLoser]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, a values system, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

All Pascal's Wager requires is that one take the steps to satisfy god's requirements

But I would think god should know if someone was just going through the motions

Yep, the Believe part is what stops someone from sneaking in

 

[Faun]

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they could be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

 

[Blues Man]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

 

[Faun]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

 

[Blues Man]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

the speech isn't the issue at all.

 

[Faun]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

the speech isn't the issue at all.

In the example of yelling fire, where it's known there is none, in a crowded theater, it is. If a panic ensues, it's because of that very speech. And such a person could face criminal charges for which they would fail to defend that speech as protected by the First Amendment. The Constitution does not provide people cover to put others safety at risk.

 

[Dragonlady]

Apparently, SOME people aren't concerned about covid-19 because they have GOD on their side. Let's check back with them in a month or so, shall we? We'll see how that worked out by then. But if some of them die, they're all Christians so they'll be up in heaven, right? I guess.

Some Megachurches Are Still Packing In Crowds

Congregants of megachurches in Louisiana, Ohio and Florida attended services in defiance of social distancing orders on Sunday morning, even as politicians and doctors took to weekly news shows to warn of coronavirus’s spread in the U.S.

www.bloomberg.com

I remember when I was a total piece of lowdown shit...I tried my hardest to lose faith...I hated believers..I hated knowing there were believers...Just knowing they existed made me feel like I should be and do better. Damn those pesky Christians!
LefTard Logic:
“Christian believers whom love God = BAD”
“Chicks with dicks, faggots, rug munchers, abortionists, wetbacks, drug users, criminals and degenerate pieces of shit = GOOD”

You filthy fucks can’t be taken seriously.

Clearly, you have "issues" with religion. I grew up without it, so I was able to look at it objectively.

No issues at all...I’m wise enough to know that nothing but good comes from true believers...Face it, that’s why you feel compelled to sow discord...fithly unaccountable degenerates can’t really spread their filth with those pesky believers standing in the way. I totally get it man.

There is a reason they really, really REALLY hate Christians but are totally fine with Muslims, if not completely stand up for them.

They usually don't want to explore those reasons too much

Leftists have been programmed to HATE all things truly American and love all things detrimental to American virtue.
The Left is Americas worst enemy by far.

What do you know about leftists? The propaganda about the left from the right-wing?

Come on bud...even retarded children know how fucked in the head the Left is.
We observe your behavior and listen to your ideologies. You filthy fucks hate anything and everything that has built and pillared this nation for centuries. Thank God your twisted pukes have become so transparent....For that, you elected Trump....THANK YOU!

First off, your nation hasn't enduring "for centuries". The country is less than 250 years old, which is really not that long compared to the Roman Empire which endured for more than 1000 years. So stop with the "all you've built" bullshit because everything you nation has built has been built by exploitation of the non-white slaves, "guest workers" and illegal aliens you heap your hatred and scorn upon.

 

[Blues Man]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

the speech isn't the issue at all.

In the example of yelling fire, where it's known there is none, in a crowded theater, it is. If a panic ensues, it's because of that very speech. And such a person could face criminal charges for which they would fail to defend that speech as protected by the First Amendment. The Constitution does not provide people cover to put others safety at risk.

And the charges will never be for the speech itself.

And isn't it about time that fire in a theater crap is consigned to the scrap heap as it's as irrelevant in this day and age.

What do you think would happen if you walked into a sold out movie theater and yelled fire?

I'll tell you. You would be pelted with popcorn and overpriced candies and told to STFU

 

[Faun]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

the speech isn't the issue at all.

In the example of yelling fire, where it's known there is none, in a crowded theater, it is. If a panic ensues, it's because of that very speech. And such a person could face criminal charges for which they would fail to defend that speech as protected by the First Amendment. The Constitution does not provide people cover to put others safety at risk.

And the charges will never be for the speech itself.

And isn't it about time that fire in a theater crap is consigned to the scrap heap as it's as irrelevant in this day and age.

What do you think would happen if you walked into a sold out movie theater and yelled fire?

I'll tell you. You would be pelted with popcorn and overpriced candies and told to STFU

The charges are irrelevant in that whatever they are in reaction to inciting a stampede in a theater, such a person still does not have First Amendment protection of free speech to use speech to put others in danger. Just like it can be illegal to verbally threaten someone's life to their face. You can't do that and then defend yourself successfully by declaring you have a First Amendment right of free speech to tell someone you're going to kill them.

 

[SweetSue92]

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

I care more about the people who are going to die because you dumb-ass bible thumpers are more interested in praising your Sky Fairy than actually protecting lives.

Protect yourself and the stupid people can't hurt you

For what, protect yourself for what? A few more spins on this floating rock in space?

This is what I mean here...doomed to destruction

Damn right. I want to stay on this ride as long as possible.

And that right there, exactly, is the problem in 21st century America. Because we have become a post-Christian society, we have forgotten what freedom means to us. So we will ALL lose our freedom, we have lost "herd immunity freedom". Sure, we will be clinging to life after this. But what life?

We have forgotten that sometimes, life is not worth living. But whatever. Life can also be a very, very hard teacher.

Live free or die!

Yes indeed. Or the cry of my patriot forefathers: "Give me liberty or give me death!"

But not now. The cry of the 21st century American: "Big Daddy Govco, keep me safe! There's a virus out there and it's scaaaaarrrrry and I don't know what to do if you don't protect meeeeee"

Really shameful when you think about it

I don't expect the government to ever keep me safe.

I protect myself if you don't want to do that that's your problem

Sure you expect the government to keep you safe, don't you? We have protected religious freedom in the Constitution but you have a problem with it. What do you propose to do about it?

I don't care what your religion is but don't assume that other people don't think their life is worth living just because you think yours isn't

If you care so little for your own health and the people of your church care so little for theirs that's your problem so go to church and get everyone there sick IDGAF because I have never stepped foot in a church and don't plan to any time in my life

But don't tell me you can't practice your religion from home or in small groups because that is simply untrue

These people do not understand how disease is spread. They also do not understand that they can pray anywhere, even in their homes. The Creator/Supreme Being can hear you in your living room, your bedroom, your bathroom 24/7.

It takes a crowd to induce religious ecstasy. A neurological state indistinguishable from orgasm. Getting "the spirit" releases a powerful endorphin rush that can be terribly addictive. They have a deep physical need to get their spiritual rocks off.

You must have gone to the Roly-Poly church where they "Get the Spirit" and start speaking gibberish.
I went when I was around 12 with my friend, we ran home as fast as we could when they started trying to drown a kid.
We went around to all the churches when I was a kid.

Yes, that's the kind of churches that refuse to close. I have actually witnessed snake handling and speaking in tongues during my childhood.

See I don't know about that. My church "meets" only virtually now. But if churches wanted to meet, I would understand it. Throughout the history of Christendom, churches have met underground for all sorts of reasons even under horrible circumstances, even upon pain of death.

I draw the line of course if someone has an active infection or even if someone in their house does.

And if someone is infected, but has mild symptoms or NO symptoms, what then?

Well now, if someone is infected but has no symptoms how would they even know? But then how does the guy in the hardware store or the liquor store know either?

They DON'T, moron. But they can give it to someone else! Get it?? That's the problem. Why can't you fucking idiots even understand that?
[/Q

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

Yes, you are free to be as stupid as possible. This has nothing to do with "freedom of religion", and if you had half a brain, you'd know that. Hopefully there were a LOT of Trump voters in church yesterday.

Thank you for weighing in from Canada

Are the Canadian mega churches packing them in too, or is this just something exceptional with America.

Are there many--or any--actual Christians left in Canada? Not many, I would imagine. At all.

More than there are in the USA. You've demonstrated in spades you're not a Christian, given your attitude towards "loving one another as I have loved you", and "Do unto others".

Our Constitution requires that we "help one another" so that most Christian of principles is enshrined in our Constitution. It's not "every man for himself and screw you" that I see from "prosperity Christians" like Joel Osteen who locked his neighbours out of his church during the flooding in Houston,.

What are the two greatest Commandments of Jesus? In order. Cite them in order

Who the fuck do you think you are, that you can tell me what to do? The arrogance and condescension of those who claim morally superiority on the grounds of their right wing Christianity, is laughable.

Your arrogance and condescension and claim to moral superiority being Canadian is no different than hers. She is claiming it on a religious level, your claim is on a country level.

You're projecting that on me. A LOT of that goes on with Christianity. A LOT.

I just read your posts, defending a megachurch and them gathering together is wrong. The church is failing to protect their flock. Churches across America are using other methods to teach their flock that doesn’t jeopardize the health of thousands. They are not showing love of neighbor. It seems money is motivating the leader of the church, not love. In the eyes of God, the church could have bloodguilt on their hands.

I'm not religious but I would think that god would frown on that kind of reckless selfishness

Women going out to the drug stores to get hair color; people going to to the liquor stores in droves; pot dispenseries, and NOT just for "medicinal use". You could name a dozen other frivolous reasons people go out, but worship is the one everyone is laser focused on--oh, and Christian worship, of course.

I know why. Do you?

As I said before it is much easier to exercise precautions in a one on one interaction than it is when 1000 people are all packed together cheek to jowl in an enclosed space

Is that too difficult for you to understand?

I have yet to see hundreds of people all crammed together in a liquor store or a drug store please post pictures of where you have seen this.

And as I have said before IDGAF if you want to practice your religion but there is no need for hundreds of people to congregate to pray. What would your god say to you if you willingly endangered the health of other people in your community just so you could pray to him when you could do the very same thing from home and not put anyone elses's health at risk?

These people gathered in NYC yesterday--a HOTBED of the virus as you know--just to watch the Comfort ship dock.

Crowds ignore social distancing rules to watch USNS Comfort

Crowds of gawkers ignored New York’s social-distance regulations and packed the west side of Manhattan on Monday to watch a US Navy hospital ship arrive to give badly needed coronavirus aid. …

nypost.com

That was just as stupid as packing a church

No, more stupid. They weren't even appealing to faith. They were watching a ship come in, literally--a ship meant to take care of sick people. Their own people.

Equally stupid because just like religious people they selfishly did it to make themselves feel better

You don't worship God to feel better, but that's how it probably seems to you. But that is why people are flocking to the liquor stores and pot dispenseries.

Of course you do.

You are expecting god to give you something that you want so you worship for your reward of salvation and that is the very definition of selfishness

No, no no no no. Totally, entirely backward.

"For it is by grace that you have been saved by faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is a gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."--Ephesians 2:8

God saved me, and all Christians, and not by works but by grace. I cannot earn salvation. Neither can you or any Christian, or anyone. It is a gift freely given. I did not earn it by any power or attribute of my own, nor could I. Worshiping is not "wanting a reward". It is saying "thank you" in a way...praising...and being in the presence of.

Yet you believe you have to worship in a church in order to receive it.

And you believe that you will be "gifted" entrance to heaven because of your faith. Right or wrong? Or is it you are afraid of being sentenced to hell?

Don't assume I don't know any religious people. I do. I have even read the bible and other religious books. I have read the writings of Aquinas and others

And yes i believe you worship for you not for others you are not the arbiter of their salvation and you can only work for your own so don't deny you worship for your own ends.

I teach poor kids music because I like to, it makes me feel good to do that for kids at least I admit that

I did not work for my salvation, nor could I ever. Read again from Ephesians 2. My faith was also a free gift, unearned "lest no one should boast"

Faith is a chosen belief system no one gave it to you.

You told me what I believe and then when I countered, you just told me meh, it's all pretend anyway.

Great, your lack of faith is all pretend. See how easy that is?

I never claimed to have faith and I have been up front about the fact that I have never set foot in any church and that I don't believe in any god.

And I never said you didn't have faith. I have asked you questions as to the motivation that drives your faith and worship. But you don't like that do you?

On the contrary this doesn't bother me at all. I am giving you the most honest answers I can. I think what you don't like is that you either don't believe my answers or you don't trust them. But you should believe them. I am being 100% honest.

I am not the type of person who settles for the "because I said so" answer. And that is all I am getting and all I have ever got from religious people when having these discussions but many times the answer is , " because god said so" or " because the bible says so".

That's some bad bias you got going on, because I'm giving you some comprehensive answers that go well beyond "because I said so". But okay

No you just say you are saved you don't tell me why or how.

I'm saved because god saved me isn't really an answer.

How do you KNOW you are saved? Who told you?

It seems to me a person who was devoted to god but remained uncertain of his salvation is more indicative of the humble servant of god. The person who knows god has saved him is the one who is presuming to know the mind of god correct?

Wouldn't god call that arrogance?

The bible has many passages on the assurance of salvation, God makes it clear in his word you can trust him in this area....if you believe the Bible is the word of God

But there is action required to achieve that salvation is there not?

I can't as a lifelong atheist claim I am saved.

I think god would easily see through Pascal's wager don't you?

Pascal’s Wager (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

You know you are saved because you have been regenerated--"born again". Saul/Paul experienced this on the road to Damascus as a literal blinding followed by scales covering his eyes and then falling off. For most of us it's not that dramatic. But you can know that you're not because....you know that you are not. Or put another way: If you have to ask, you're not.

You also do not want the things of God.

 

[Blues Man]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

the speech isn't the issue at all.

In the example of yelling fire, where it's known there is none, in a crowded theater, it is. If a panic ensues, it's because of that very speech. And such a person could face criminal charges for which they would fail to defend that speech as protected by the First Amendment. The Constitution does not provide people cover to put others safety at risk.

And the charges will never be for the speech itself.

And isn't it about time that fire in a theater crap is consigned to the scrap heap as it's as irrelevant in this day and age.

What do you think would happen if you walked into a sold out movie theater and yelled fire?

I'll tell you. You would be pelted with popcorn and overpriced candies and told to STFU

The charges are irrelevant in that whatever they are in reaction to inciting a stampede in a theater, such a person still does not have First Amendment protection of free speech to use speech to put others in danger. Just like it can be illegal to verbally threaten someone's life to their face. You can't do that and then defend yourself successfully by declaring you have a First Amendment right of free speech to tell someone you're going to kill them.

Well at least the threat example is correct because you can be charged with simply making a threat but you will never be charged for yelling fire

 

[SweetSue92]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

the speech isn't the issue at all.

In the example of yelling fire, where it's known there is none, in a crowded theater, it is. If a panic ensues, it's because of that very speech. And such a person could face criminal charges for which they would fail to defend that speech as protected by the First Amendment. The Constitution does not provide people cover to put others safety at risk.

And the charges will never be for the speech itself.

And isn't it about time that fire in a theater crap is consigned to the scrap heap as it's as irrelevant in this day and age.

What do you think would happen if you walked into a sold out movie theater and yelled fire?

I'll tell you. You would be pelted with popcorn and overpriced candies and told to STFU

The charges are irrelevant in that whatever they are in reaction to inciting a stampede in a theater, such a person still does not have First Amendment protection of free speech to use speech to put others in danger. Just like it can be illegal to verbally threaten someone's life to their face. You can't do that and then defend yourself successfully by declaring you have a First Amendment right of free speech to tell someone you're going to kill them.

We'll see. It will go up the court system all the way to the Supreme Court probably.

 

[Blues Man]

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

I care more about the people who are going to die because you dumb-ass bible thumpers are more interested in praising your Sky Fairy than actually protecting lives.

Protect yourself and the stupid people can't hurt you

For what, protect yourself for what? A few more spins on this floating rock in space?

This is what I mean here...doomed to destruction

Damn right. I want to stay on this ride as long as possible.

And that right there, exactly, is the problem in 21st century America. Because we have become a post-Christian society, we have forgotten what freedom means to us. So we will ALL lose our freedom, we have lost "herd immunity freedom". Sure, we will be clinging to life after this. But what life?

We have forgotten that sometimes, life is not worth living. But whatever. Life can also be a very, very hard teacher.

Live free or die!

Yes indeed. Or the cry of my patriot forefathers: "Give me liberty or give me death!"

But not now. The cry of the 21st century American: "Big Daddy Govco, keep me safe! There's a virus out there and it's scaaaaarrrrry and I don't know what to do if you don't protect meeeeee"

Really shameful when you think about it

I don't expect the government to ever keep me safe.

I protect myself if you don't want to do that that's your problem

Sure you expect the government to keep you safe, don't you? We have protected religious freedom in the Constitution but you have a problem with it. What do you propose to do about it?

I don't care what your religion is but don't assume that other people don't think their life is worth living just because you think yours isn't

If you care so little for your own health and the people of your church care so little for theirs that's your problem so go to church and get everyone there sick IDGAF because I have never stepped foot in a church and don't plan to any time in my life

But don't tell me you can't practice your religion from home or in small groups because that is simply untrue

These people do not understand how disease is spread. They also do not understand that they can pray anywhere, even in their homes. The Creator/Supreme Being can hear you in your living room, your bedroom, your bathroom 24/7.

It takes a crowd to induce religious ecstasy. A neurological state indistinguishable from orgasm. Getting "the spirit" releases a powerful endorphin rush that can be terribly addictive. They have a deep physical need to get their spiritual rocks off.

You must have gone to the Roly-Poly church where they "Get the Spirit" and start speaking gibberish.
I went when I was around 12 with my friend, we ran home as fast as we could when they started trying to drown a kid.
We went around to all the churches when I was a kid.

Yes, that's the kind of churches that refuse to close. I have actually witnessed snake handling and speaking in tongues during my childhood.

See I don't know about that. My church "meets" only virtually now. But if churches wanted to meet, I would understand it. Throughout the history of Christendom, churches have met underground for all sorts of reasons even under horrible circumstances, even upon pain of death.

I draw the line of course if someone has an active infection or even if someone in their house does.

And if someone is infected, but has mild symptoms or NO symptoms, what then?

Well now, if someone is infected but has no symptoms how would they even know? But then how does the guy in the hardware store or the liquor store know either?

They DON'T, moron. But they can give it to someone else! Get it?? That's the problem. Why can't you fucking idiots even understand that?
[/Q

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

Yes, you are free to be as stupid as possible. This has nothing to do with "freedom of religion", and if you had half a brain, you'd know that. Hopefully there were a LOT of Trump voters in church yesterday.

Thank you for weighing in from Canada

Are the Canadian mega churches packing them in too, or is this just something exceptional with America.

Are there many--or any--actual Christians left in Canada? Not many, I would imagine. At all.

More than there are in the USA. You've demonstrated in spades you're not a Christian, given your attitude towards "loving one another as I have loved you", and "Do unto others".

Our Constitution requires that we "help one another" so that most Christian of principles is enshrined in our Constitution. It's not "every man for himself and screw you" that I see from "prosperity Christians" like Joel Osteen who locked his neighbours out of his church during the flooding in Houston,.

What are the two greatest Commandments of Jesus? In order. Cite them in order

Who the fuck do you think you are, that you can tell me what to do? The arrogance and condescension of those who claim morally superiority on the grounds of their right wing Christianity, is laughable.

Your arrogance and condescension and claim to moral superiority being Canadian is no different than hers. She is claiming it on a religious level, your claim is on a country level.

You're projecting that on me. A LOT of that goes on with Christianity. A LOT.

I just read your posts, defending a megachurch and them gathering together is wrong. The church is failing to protect their flock. Churches across America are using other methods to teach their flock that doesn’t jeopardize the health of thousands. They are not showing love of neighbor. It seems money is motivating the leader of the church, not love. In the eyes of God, the church could have bloodguilt on their hands.

I'm not religious but I would think that god would frown on that kind of reckless selfishness

Women going out to the drug stores to get hair color; people going to to the liquor stores in droves; pot dispenseries, and NOT just for "medicinal use". You could name a dozen other frivolous reasons people go out, but worship is the one everyone is laser focused on--oh, and Christian worship, of course.

I know why. Do you?

As I said before it is much easier to exercise precautions in a one on one interaction than it is when 1000 people are all packed together cheek to jowl in an enclosed space

Is that too difficult for you to understand?

I have yet to see hundreds of people all crammed together in a liquor store or a drug store please post pictures of where you have seen this.

And as I have said before IDGAF if you want to practice your religion but there is no need for hundreds of people to congregate to pray. What would your god say to you if you willingly endangered the health of other people in your community just so you could pray to him when you could do the very same thing from home and not put anyone elses's health at risk?

These people gathered in NYC yesterday--a HOTBED of the virus as you know--just to watch the Comfort ship dock.

Crowds ignore social distancing rules to watch USNS Comfort

Crowds of gawkers ignored New York’s social-distance regulations and packed the west side of Manhattan on Monday to watch a US Navy hospital ship arrive to give badly needed coronavirus aid. …

nypost.com

That was just as stupid as packing a church

No, more stupid. They weren't even appealing to faith. They were watching a ship come in, literally--a ship meant to take care of sick people. Their own people.

Equally stupid because just like religious people they selfishly did it to make themselves feel better

You don't worship God to feel better, but that's how it probably seems to you. But that is why people are flocking to the liquor stores and pot dispenseries.

Of course you do.

You are expecting god to give you something that you want so you worship for your reward of salvation and that is the very definition of selfishness

No, no no no no. Totally, entirely backward.

"For it is by grace that you have been saved by faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is a gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."--Ephesians 2:8

God saved me, and all Christians, and not by works but by grace. I cannot earn salvation. Neither can you or any Christian, or anyone. It is a gift freely given. I did not earn it by any power or attribute of my own, nor could I. Worshiping is not "wanting a reward". It is saying "thank you" in a way...praising...and being in the presence of.

Yet you believe you have to worship in a church in order to receive it.

And you believe that you will be "gifted" entrance to heaven because of your faith. Right or wrong? Or is it you are afraid of being sentenced to hell?

Don't assume I don't know any religious people. I do. I have even read the bible and other religious books. I have read the writings of Aquinas and others

And yes i believe you worship for you not for others you are not the arbiter of their salvation and you can only work for your own so don't deny you worship for your own ends.

I teach poor kids music because I like to, it makes me feel good to do that for kids at least I admit that

I did not work for my salvation, nor could I ever. Read again from Ephesians 2. My faith was also a free gift, unearned "lest no one should boast"

Faith is a chosen belief system no one gave it to you.

You told me what I believe and then when I countered, you just told me meh, it's all pretend anyway.

Great, your lack of faith is all pretend. See how easy that is?

I never claimed to have faith and I have been up front about the fact that I have never set foot in any church and that I don't believe in any god.

And I never said you didn't have faith. I have asked you questions as to the motivation that drives your faith and worship. But you don't like that do you?

On the contrary this doesn't bother me at all. I am giving you the most honest answers I can. I think what you don't like is that you either don't believe my answers or you don't trust them. But you should believe them. I am being 100% honest.

I am not the type of person who settles for the "because I said so" answer. And that is all I am getting and all I have ever got from religious people when having these discussions but many times the answer is , " because god said so" or " because the bible says so".

That's some bad bias you got going on, because I'm giving you some comprehensive answers that go well beyond "because I said so". But okay

No you just say you are saved you don't tell me why or how.

I'm saved because god saved me isn't really an answer.

How do you KNOW you are saved? Who told you?

It seems to me a person who was devoted to god but remained uncertain of his salvation is more indicative of the humble servant of god. The person who knows god has saved him is the one who is presuming to know the mind of god correct?

Wouldn't god call that arrogance?

The bible has many passages on the assurance of salvation, God makes it clear in his word you can trust him in this area....if you believe the Bible is the word of God

But there is action required to achieve that salvation is there not?

I can't as a lifelong atheist claim I am saved.

I think god would easily see through Pascal's wager don't you?

Pascal’s Wager (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

You know you are saved because you have been regenerated--"born again". Saul/Paul experienced this on the road to Damascus as a literal blinding followed by scales covering his eyes and then falling off. For most of us it's not that dramatic. But you can know that you're not because....you know that you are not. Or put another way: If you have to ask, you're not.

You also do not want the things of God.

I don't need the things of god to live a happy fulfilled productive life. No one does

 

[SweetSue92]

Apparently, SOME people aren't concerned about covid-19 because they have GOD on their side. Let's check back with them in a month or so, shall we? We'll see how that worked out by then. But if some of them die, they're all Christians so they'll be up in heaven, right? I guess.

Some Megachurches Are Still Packing In Crowds

Congregants of megachurches in Louisiana, Ohio and Florida attended services in defiance of social distancing orders on Sunday morning, even as politicians and doctors took to weekly news shows to warn of coronavirus’s spread in the U.S.

www.bloomberg.com

I remember when I was a total piece of lowdown shit...I tried my hardest to lose faith...I hated believers..I hated knowing there were believers...Just knowing they existed made me feel like I should be and do better. Damn those pesky Christians!
LefTard Logic:
“Christian believers whom love God = BAD”
“Chicks with dicks, faggots, rug munchers, abortionists, wetbacks, drug users, criminals and degenerate pieces of shit = GOOD”

You filthy fucks can’t be taken seriously.

Clearly, you have "issues" with religion. I grew up without it, so I was able to look at it objectively.

No issues at all...I’m wise enough to know that nothing but good comes from true believers...Face it, that’s why you feel compelled to sow discord...fithly unaccountable degenerates can’t really spread their filth with those pesky believers standing in the way. I totally get it man.

There is a reason they really, really REALLY hate Christians but are totally fine with Muslims, if not completely stand up for them.

They usually don't want to explore those reasons too much

Leftists have been programmed to HATE all things truly American and love all things detrimental to American virtue.
The Left is Americas worst enemy by far.

What do you know about leftists? The propaganda about the left from the right-wing?

Come on bud...even retarded children know how fucked in the head the Left is.
We observe your behavior and listen to your ideologies. You filthy fucks hate anything and everything that has built and pillared this nation for centuries. Thank God your twisted pukes have become so transparent....For that, you elected Trump....THANK YOU!

First off, your nation hasn't enduring "for centuries". The country is less than 250 years old, which is really not that long compared to the Roman Empire which endured for more than 1000 years. So stop with the "all you've built" bullshit because everything you nation has built has been built by exploitation of the non-white slaves, "guest workers" and illegal aliens you heap your hatred and scorn upon.

You seem upset

 

[SweetSue92]

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

I care more about the people who are going to die because you dumb-ass bible thumpers are more interested in praising your Sky Fairy than actually protecting lives.

Protect yourself and the stupid people can't hurt you

For what, protect yourself for what? A few more spins on this floating rock in space?

This is what I mean here...doomed to destruction

Damn right. I want to stay on this ride as long as possible.

And that right there, exactly, is the problem in 21st century America. Because we have become a post-Christian society, we have forgotten what freedom means to us. So we will ALL lose our freedom, we have lost "herd immunity freedom". Sure, we will be clinging to life after this. But what life?

We have forgotten that sometimes, life is not worth living. But whatever. Life can also be a very, very hard teacher.

Live free or die!

Yes indeed. Or the cry of my patriot forefathers: "Give me liberty or give me death!"

But not now. The cry of the 21st century American: "Big Daddy Govco, keep me safe! There's a virus out there and it's scaaaaarrrrry and I don't know what to do if you don't protect meeeeee"

Really shameful when you think about it

I don't expect the government to ever keep me safe.

I protect myself if you don't want to do that that's your problem

Sure you expect the government to keep you safe, don't you? We have protected religious freedom in the Constitution but you have a problem with it. What do you propose to do about it?

I don't care what your religion is but don't assume that other people don't think their life is worth living just because you think yours isn't

If you care so little for your own health and the people of your church care so little for theirs that's your problem so go to church and get everyone there sick IDGAF because I have never stepped foot in a church and don't plan to any time in my life

But don't tell me you can't practice your religion from home or in small groups because that is simply untrue

These people do not understand how disease is spread. They also do not understand that they can pray anywhere, even in their homes. The Creator/Supreme Being can hear you in your living room, your bedroom, your bathroom 24/7.

It takes a crowd to induce religious ecstasy. A neurological state indistinguishable from orgasm. Getting "the spirit" releases a powerful endorphin rush that can be terribly addictive. They have a deep physical need to get their spiritual rocks off.

You must have gone to the Roly-Poly church where they "Get the Spirit" and start speaking gibberish.
I went when I was around 12 with my friend, we ran home as fast as we could when they started trying to drown a kid.
We went around to all the churches when I was a kid.

Yes, that's the kind of churches that refuse to close. I have actually witnessed snake handling and speaking in tongues during my childhood.

See I don't know about that. My church "meets" only virtually now. But if churches wanted to meet, I would understand it. Throughout the history of Christendom, churches have met underground for all sorts of reasons even under horrible circumstances, even upon pain of death.

I draw the line of course if someone has an active infection or even if someone in their house does.

And if someone is infected, but has mild symptoms or NO symptoms, what then?

Well now, if someone is infected but has no symptoms how would they even know? But then how does the guy in the hardware store or the liquor store know either?

They DON'T, moron. But they can give it to someone else! Get it?? That's the problem. Why can't you fucking idiots even understand that?
[/Q

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

Yes, you are free to be as stupid as possible. This has nothing to do with "freedom of religion", and if you had half a brain, you'd know that. Hopefully there were a LOT of Trump voters in church yesterday.

Thank you for weighing in from Canada

Are the Canadian mega churches packing them in too, or is this just something exceptional with America.

Are there many--or any--actual Christians left in Canada? Not many, I would imagine. At all.

More than there are in the USA. You've demonstrated in spades you're not a Christian, given your attitude towards "loving one another as I have loved you", and "Do unto others".

Our Constitution requires that we "help one another" so that most Christian of principles is enshrined in our Constitution. It's not "every man for himself and screw you" that I see from "prosperity Christians" like Joel Osteen who locked his neighbours out of his church during the flooding in Houston,.

What are the two greatest Commandments of Jesus? In order. Cite them in order

Who the fuck do you think you are, that you can tell me what to do? The arrogance and condescension of those who claim morally superiority on the grounds of their right wing Christianity, is laughable.

Your arrogance and condescension and claim to moral superiority being Canadian is no different than hers. She is claiming it on a religious level, your claim is on a country level.

You're projecting that on me. A LOT of that goes on with Christianity. A LOT.

I just read your posts, defending a megachurch and them gathering together is wrong. The church is failing to protect their flock. Churches across America are using other methods to teach their flock that doesn’t jeopardize the health of thousands. They are not showing love of neighbor. It seems money is motivating the leader of the church, not love. In the eyes of God, the church could have bloodguilt on their hands.

I'm not religious but I would think that god would frown on that kind of reckless selfishness

Women going out to the drug stores to get hair color; people going to to the liquor stores in droves; pot dispenseries, and NOT just for "medicinal use". You could name a dozen other frivolous reasons people go out, but worship is the one everyone is laser focused on--oh, and Christian worship, of course.

I know why. Do you?

As I said before it is much easier to exercise precautions in a one on one interaction than it is when 1000 people are all packed together cheek to jowl in an enclosed space

Is that too difficult for you to understand?

I have yet to see hundreds of people all crammed together in a liquor store or a drug store please post pictures of where you have seen this.

And as I have said before IDGAF if you want to practice your religion but there is no need for hundreds of people to congregate to pray. What would your god say to you if you willingly endangered the health of other people in your community just so you could pray to him when you could do the very same thing from home and not put anyone elses's health at risk?

These people gathered in NYC yesterday--a HOTBED of the virus as you know--just to watch the Comfort ship dock.

Crowds ignore social distancing rules to watch USNS Comfort

Crowds of gawkers ignored New York’s social-distance regulations and packed the west side of Manhattan on Monday to watch a US Navy hospital ship arrive to give badly needed coronavirus aid. …

nypost.com

That was just as stupid as packing a church

No, more stupid. They weren't even appealing to faith. They were watching a ship come in, literally--a ship meant to take care of sick people. Their own people.

Equally stupid because just like religious people they selfishly did it to make themselves feel better

You don't worship God to feel better, but that's how it probably seems to you. But that is why people are flocking to the liquor stores and pot dispenseries.

Of course you do.

You are expecting god to give you something that you want so you worship for your reward of salvation and that is the very definition of selfishness

No, no no no no. Totally, entirely backward.

"For it is by grace that you have been saved by faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is a gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."--Ephesians 2:8

God saved me, and all Christians, and not by works but by grace. I cannot earn salvation. Neither can you or any Christian, or anyone. It is a gift freely given. I did not earn it by any power or attribute of my own, nor could I. Worshiping is not "wanting a reward". It is saying "thank you" in a way...praising...and being in the presence of.

Yet you believe you have to worship in a church in order to receive it.

And you believe that you will be "gifted" entrance to heaven because of your faith. Right or wrong? Or is it you are afraid of being sentenced to hell?

Don't assume I don't know any religious people. I do. I have even read the bible and other religious books. I have read the writings of Aquinas and others

And yes i believe you worship for you not for others you are not the arbiter of their salvation and you can only work for your own so don't deny you worship for your own ends.

I teach poor kids music because I like to, it makes me feel good to do that for kids at least I admit that

I did not work for my salvation, nor could I ever. Read again from Ephesians 2. My faith was also a free gift, unearned "lest no one should boast"

Faith is a chosen belief system no one gave it to you.

You told me what I believe and then when I countered, you just told me meh, it's all pretend anyway.

Great, your lack of faith is all pretend. See how easy that is?

I never claimed to have faith and I have been up front about the fact that I have never set foot in any church and that I don't believe in any god.

And I never said you didn't have faith. I have asked you questions as to the motivation that drives your faith and worship. But you don't like that do you?

On the contrary this doesn't bother me at all. I am giving you the most honest answers I can. I think what you don't like is that you either don't believe my answers or you don't trust them. But you should believe them. I am being 100% honest.

I am not the type of person who settles for the "because I said so" answer. And that is all I am getting and all I have ever got from religious people when having these discussions but many times the answer is , " because god said so" or " because the bible says so".

That's some bad bias you got going on, because I'm giving you some comprehensive answers that go well beyond "because I said so". But okay

No you just say you are saved you don't tell me why or how.

I'm saved because god saved me isn't really an answer.

How do you KNOW you are saved? Who told you?

It seems to me a person who was devoted to god but remained uncertain of his salvation is more indicative of the humble servant of god. The person who knows god has saved him is the one who is presuming to know the mind of god correct?

Wouldn't god call that arrogance?

The bible has many passages on the assurance of salvation, God makes it clear in his word you can trust him in this area....if you believe the Bible is the word of God

But there is action required to achieve that salvation is there not?

I can't as a lifelong atheist claim I am saved.

I think god would easily see through Pascal's wager don't you?

Pascal’s Wager (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

You know you are saved because you have been regenerated--"born again". Saul/Paul experienced this on the road to Damascus as a literal blinding followed by scales covering his eyes and then falling off. For most of us it's not that dramatic. But you can know that you're not because....you know that you are not. Or put another way: If you have to ask, you're not.

You also do not want the things of God.

I don't need the things of god to live a happy fulfilled productive life. No one does

What's stuck so far up your craw about Christianity anyway? Geez

 

[Faun]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

the speech isn't the issue at all.

In the example of yelling fire, where it's known there is none, in a crowded theater, it is. If a panic ensues, it's because of that very speech. And such a person could face criminal charges for which they would fail to defend that speech as protected by the First Amendment. The Constitution does not provide people cover to put others safety at risk.

And the charges will never be for the speech itself.

And isn't it about time that fire in a theater crap is consigned to the scrap heap as it's as irrelevant in this day and age.

What do you think would happen if you walked into a sold out movie theater and yelled fire?

I'll tell you. You would be pelted with popcorn and overpriced candies and told to STFU

The charges are irrelevant in that whatever they are in reaction to inciting a stampede in a theater, such a person still does not have First Amendment protection of free speech to use speech to put others in danger. Just like it can be illegal to verbally threaten someone's life to their face. You can't do that and then defend yourself successfully by declaring you have a First Amendment right of free speech to tell someone you're going to kill them.

Well at least the threat example is correct because you can be charged with simply making a threat but you will never be charged for yelling fire

That's because there is no such charge as "yelling fire." But incite a stampede on false pretenses and you could be charged with a crime over which the First Amendment will not protect yelling "fire."

There are limitations to Constitutional rights that prevent folks from leveraging the Constitution to protect them from putting others safety at risk.

 

[Blues Man]

In summary...
Christianity establishes a standard, values, decency, morality, normality, accountability, commonality...It is a catalyst to unity and togetherness...All things the filthy Left hates.
Hmm, why does the filthy Left reject Christianity? Because it stands in the way of their twisted agenda and the NEW America they seek.
Ain’t that right Bruce Daniels ?

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

And the freedom to infect everyone around you! Yes!

It seems you have very little imagination for this sort of thing but let me clue you in: this is exactly how your freedom is taken, and mine. I mean not that anyone cares about that anymore, right? But still. YOU can't congregate in groups ever anymore, because my neighbor's sister's niece is immuno-compromised, and viruses get around, and it's DANGEROUS

Congrats for being part of the big problem: whipping us into a nation of window-peeping Gestapos. Hope you're proud

Ha, so selfish it boggles the mind. Who said Anything about “ever” anyway. Did I mention how selfish you appear to be???

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

Oh? Then why is it illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater while knowing there is no fire? Do you think your First Amendment rights allow you to expose others to danger?

Technically it's not illegal.

If someone shouted fire in a crowded theater and people told him to shut up and leave he would not be charged with any crime.

That's true. That action has to create a panic to be illegal.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic." ~ Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

And they still would not be charged for yelling fire but rather for something like inciting or endangerment or some such thing

But they would be charged. Their First Amendment rights do not protect them from putting others in danger.

You can be charged with inciting or endangerment for many reasons.

The point is the actual speech is not illegal as it depends on the result of the act as to what the charges will be

I've already acknowledged a crime has to be committed in order for the First Amendment to not protect the speech.

the speech isn't the issue at all.

In the example of yelling fire, where it's known there is none, in a crowded theater, it is. If a panic ensues, it's because of that very speech. And such a person could face criminal charges for which they would fail to defend that speech as protected by the First Amendment. The Constitution does not provide people cover to put others safety at risk.

And the charges will never be for the speech itself.

And isn't it about time that fire in a theater crap is consigned to the scrap heap as it's as irrelevant in this day and age.

What do you think would happen if you walked into a sold out movie theater and yelled fire?

I'll tell you. You would be pelted with popcorn and overpriced candies and told to STFU

The charges are irrelevant in that whatever they are in reaction to inciting a stampede in a theater, such a person still does not have First Amendment protection of free speech to use speech to put others in danger. Just like it can be illegal to verbally threaten someone's life to their face. You can't do that and then defend yourself successfully by declaring you have a First Amendment right of free speech to tell someone you're going to kill them.

Well at least the threat example is correct because you can be charged with simply making a threat but you will never be charged for yelling fire

That's because there is no such charge as "yelling fire." But incite a stampede on false pretenses and you could be charged with a crime over which the First Amendment will not protect yelling "fire."

There are limitations to Constitutional rights that prevent folks from leveraging the Constitution to protect them from putting others safety at risk.

The first amendment does not have to protect yelling fire because no has or ever will be charged with yelling fire.

 

[Blues Man]

I really don't care if you feel my First Amendment Rights are selfish. For now, they are still my rights. I know you probably care little for them.

I care more about the people who are going to die because you dumb-ass bible thumpers are more interested in praising your Sky Fairy than actually protecting lives.

Protect yourself and the stupid people can't hurt you

For what, protect yourself for what? A few more spins on this floating rock in space?

This is what I mean here...doomed to destruction

Damn right. I want to stay on this ride as long as possible.

And that right there, exactly, is the problem in 21st century America. Because we have become a post-Christian society, we have forgotten what freedom means to us. So we will ALL lose our freedom, we have lost "herd immunity freedom". Sure, we will be clinging to life after this. But what life?

We have forgotten that sometimes, life is not worth living. But whatever. Life can also be a very, very hard teacher.

Live free or die!

Yes indeed. Or the cry of my patriot forefathers: "Give me liberty or give me death!"

But not now. The cry of the 21st century American: "Big Daddy Govco, keep me safe! There's a virus out there and it's scaaaaarrrrry and I don't know what to do if you don't protect meeeeee"

Really shameful when you think about it

I don't expect the government to ever keep me safe.

I protect myself if you don't want to do that that's your problem

Sure you expect the government to keep you safe, don't you? We have protected religious freedom in the Constitution but you have a problem with it. What do you propose to do about it?

I don't care what your religion is but don't assume that other people don't think their life is worth living just because you think yours isn't

If you care so little for your own health and the people of your church care so little for theirs that's your problem so go to church and get everyone there sick IDGAF because I have never stepped foot in a church and don't plan to any time in my life

But don't tell me you can't practice your religion from home or in small groups because that is simply untrue

These people do not understand how disease is spread. They also do not understand that they can pray anywhere, even in their homes. The Creator/Supreme Being can hear you in your living room, your bedroom, your bathroom 24/7.

It takes a crowd to induce religious ecstasy. A neurological state indistinguishable from orgasm. Getting "the spirit" releases a powerful endorphin rush that can be terribly addictive. They have a deep physical need to get their spiritual rocks off.

You must have gone to the Roly-Poly church where they "Get the Spirit" and start speaking gibberish.
I went when I was around 12 with my friend, we ran home as fast as we could when they started trying to drown a kid.
We went around to all the churches when I was a kid.

Yes, that's the kind of churches that refuse to close. I have actually witnessed snake handling and speaking in tongues during my childhood.

See I don't know about that. My church "meets" only virtually now. But if churches wanted to meet, I would understand it. Throughout the history of Christendom, churches have met underground for all sorts of reasons even under horrible circumstances, even upon pain of death.

I draw the line of course if someone has an active infection or even if someone in their house does.

And if someone is infected, but has mild symptoms or NO symptoms, what then?

Well now, if someone is infected but has no symptoms how would they even know? But then how does the guy in the hardware store or the liquor store know either?

They DON'T, moron. But they can give it to someone else! Get it?? That's the problem. Why can't you fucking idiots even understand that?
[/Q

Good to see we still have freedom of religion in America.

Yes, you are free to be as stupid as possible. This has nothing to do with "freedom of religion", and if you had half a brain, you'd know that. Hopefully there were a LOT of Trump voters in church yesterday.

Thank you for weighing in from Canada

Are the Canadian mega churches packing them in too, or is this just something exceptional with America.

Are there many--or any--actual Christians left in Canada? Not many, I would imagine. At all.

More than there are in the USA. You've demonstrated in spades you're not a Christian, given your attitude towards "loving one another as I have loved you", and "Do unto others".

Our Constitution requires that we "help one another" so that most Christian of principles is enshrined in our Constitution. It's not "every man for himself and screw you" that I see from "prosperity Christians" like Joel Osteen who locked his neighbours out of his church during the flooding in Houston,.

What are the two greatest Commandments of Jesus? In order. Cite them in order

Who the fuck do you think you are, that you can tell me what to do? The arrogance and condescension of those who claim morally superiority on the grounds of their right wing Christianity, is laughable.

Your arrogance and condescension and claim to moral superiority being Canadian is no different than hers. She is claiming it on a religious level, your claim is on a country level.

You're projecting that on me. A LOT of that goes on with Christianity. A LOT.

I just read your posts, defending a megachurch and them gathering together is wrong. The church is failing to protect their flock. Churches across America are using other methods to teach their flock that doesn’t jeopardize the health of thousands. They are not showing love of neighbor. It seems money is motivating the leader of the church, not love. In the eyes of God, the church could have bloodguilt on their hands.

I'm not religious but I would think that god would frown on that kind of reckless selfishness

Women going out to the drug stores to get hair color; people going to to the liquor stores in droves; pot dispenseries, and NOT just for "medicinal use". You could name a dozen other frivolous reasons people go out, but worship is the one everyone is laser focused on--oh, and Christian worship, of course.

I know why. Do you?

As I said before it is much easier to exercise precautions in a one on one interaction than it is when 1000 people are all packed together cheek to jowl in an enclosed space

Is that too difficult for you to understand?

I have yet to see hundreds of people all crammed together in a liquor store or a drug store please post pictures of where you have seen this.

And as I have said before IDGAF if you want to practice your religion but there is no need for hundreds of people to congregate to pray. What would your god say to you if you willingly endangered the health of other people in your community just so you could pray to him when you could do the very same thing from home and not put anyone elses's health at risk?

These people gathered in NYC yesterday--a HOTBED of the virus as you know--just to watch the Comfort ship dock.

Crowds ignore social distancing rules to watch USNS Comfort

Crowds of gawkers ignored New York’s social-distance regulations and packed the west side of Manhattan on Monday to watch a US Navy hospital ship arrive to give badly needed coronavirus aid. …

nypost.com

That was just as stupid as packing a church

No, more stupid. They weren't even appealing to faith. They were watching a ship come in, literally--a ship meant to take care of sick people. Their own people.

Equally stupid because just like religious people they selfishly did it to make themselves feel better

You don't worship God to feel better, but that's how it probably seems to you. But that is why people are flocking to the liquor stores and pot dispenseries.

Of course you do.

You are expecting god to give you something that you want so you worship for your reward of salvation and that is the very definition of selfishness

No, no no no no. Totally, entirely backward.

"For it is by grace that you have been saved by faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is a gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."--Ephesians 2:8

God saved me, and all Christians, and not by works but by grace. I cannot earn salvation. Neither can you or any Christian, or anyone. It is a gift freely given. I did not earn it by any power or attribute of my own, nor could I. Worshiping is not "wanting a reward". It is saying "thank you" in a way...praising...and being in the presence of.

Yet you believe you have to worship in a church in order to receive it.

And you believe that you will be "gifted" entrance to heaven because of your faith. Right or wrong? Or is it you are afraid of being sentenced to hell?

Don't assume I don't know any religious people. I do. I have even read the bible and other religious books. I have read the writings of Aquinas and others

And yes i believe you worship for you not for others you are not the arbiter of their salvation and you can only work for your own so don't deny you worship for your own ends.

I teach poor kids music because I like to, it makes me feel good to do that for kids at least I admit that

I did not work for my salvation, nor could I ever. Read again from Ephesians 2. My faith was also a free gift, unearned "lest no one should boast"

Faith is a chosen belief system no one gave it to you.

You told me what I believe and then when I countered, you just told me meh, it's all pretend anyway.

Great, your lack of faith is all pretend. See how easy that is?

I never claimed to have faith and I have been up front about the fact that I have never set foot in any church and that I don't believe in any god.

And I never said you didn't have faith. I have asked you questions as to the motivation that drives your faith and worship. But you don't like that do you?

On the contrary this doesn't bother me at all. I am giving you the most honest answers I can. I think what you don't like is that you either don't believe my answers or you don't trust them. But you should believe them. I am being 100% honest.

I am not the type of person who settles for the "because I said so" answer. And that is all I am getting and all I have ever got from religious people when having these discussions but many times the answer is , " because god said so" or " because the bible says so".

That's some bad bias you got going on, because I'm giving you some comprehensive answers that go well beyond "because I said so". But okay

No you just say you are saved you don't tell me why or how.

I'm saved because god saved me isn't really an answer.

How do you KNOW you are saved? Who told you?

It seems to me a person who was devoted to god but remained uncertain of his salvation is more indicative of the humble servant of god. The person who knows god has saved him is the one who is presuming to know the mind of god correct?

Wouldn't god call that arrogance?

The bible has many passages on the assurance of salvation, God makes it clear in his word you can trust him in this area....if you believe the Bible is the word of God

But there is action required to achieve that salvation is there not?

I can't as a lifelong atheist claim I am saved.

I think god would easily see through Pascal's wager don't you?

Pascal’s Wager (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

You know you are saved because you have been regenerated--"born again". Saul/Paul experienced this on the road to Damascus as a literal blinding followed by scales covering his eyes and then falling off. For most of us it's not that dramatic. But you can know that you're not because....you know that you are not. Or put another way: If you have to ask, you're not.

You also do not want the things of God.

I don't need the things of god to live a happy fulfilled productive life. No one does

What's stuck so far up your craw about Christianity anyway? Geez

Nothing really.

I would just like an honest answer to what motivates a person to follow the tenets and dogma of a religion.

everything people do they do for some reason.

An unexamined life is not worth living.

I choose to follow the Stoics when it comes to a personal philosophy.