Maybe we deserved this also?

CSM

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red states rule

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Annie

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Well some of the Kos kids have pointed out that Fort Dix would be a legitimate military target, same at Huffington.
 

Mace

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Glad they caught the guys before they could put their plan in actions. Good work on the FBI's part I'm guessing. Hope they get their just deserts. Now this right here is treason but I don't believe their citizens, are they?
 

Care4all

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6 Yugoslav nationals arrested for a plot to attack Fort Dix.

All I can say is at least these guys weren't planning to bomb a pizza parlor.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070508/ap_on_re_us/fort_dix_plot
they were so retarded though! could they really have pulled ANYTHING OFF?

i heard on the 24/7 tonight that these guys sent this jihadist training video to a store to be copied!

are these guys for real???

geez louise, how dumb can one get!????!!!!!

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of course, maybe they were just ''testing'' the system for someone else later down the road?
 

no1tovote4

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they were so retarded though! could they really have pulled ANYTHING OFF?

i heard on the 24/7 tonight that these guys sent this jihadist training video to a store to be copied!

are these guys for real???

geez louise, how dumb can one get!????!!!!!

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of course, maybe they were just ''testing'' the system for someone else later down the road?
You do know that the armories at our bases are locked and they don't have access to them, right?

It depends on where and when they chose to attack if they could have pulled something off. These guys were stupid though. Seriously stupid. A smarter group could have done some real damage.
 

Annie

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they were so retarded though! could they really have pulled ANYTHING OFF?

i heard on the 24/7 tonight that these guys sent this jihadist training video to a store to be copied!

are these guys for real???

geez louise, how dumb can one get!????!!!!!

----------------

of course, maybe they were just ''testing'' the system for someone else later down the road?
Yep, that is how they were 'brought to attention.' As my brother says, thank God the criminals are basically not that bright or they'd never be caught. However, if the person processing the video hadn't been aware or had been sympathetic to their cause? One of the jihadists had access to the base via his pizza delivery job. For want of a nail and all that.
 

Gunny

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Glad they caught the guys before they could put their plan in actions. Good work on the FBI's part I'm guessing. Hope they get their just deserts. Now this right here is treason but I don't believe their citizens, are they?
It is not treason since they are not US citizens. I believe it would fall under espionage.
 

Mace

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It is not treason since they are not US citizens. I believe it would fall under espionage.
Didn't think so. Espionage might fit be they have laws against terrorism so that'll be what they probably get charged with.
 

Care4all

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i believe a couple are us citizens and/or here legally on visas, i think 2-3 are here illegally... the key charge against them is conspiracy to commit murder.... i have read.
 

Gunny

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Didn't think so. Espionage might fit be they have laws against terrorism so that'll be what they probably get charged with.
There are DEFINITELY laws against espionage, usually part and parcel with spying. A convicted spy can STILL be put to death, unless someone's changed something recently.
 
OP
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After 9/11, and I do mean even the same day, there were comments from Americans and Europeans that we deserved what happened. usually stated as " Ohh I am sorry that happened, BUT if...."

A forum that is now defunct, that I was on then , there were comments about how we should have known we were gonna get attacked and we caused it by our actions around the world. That we deserved to be attacked and that if we didn't change our ways we deserved to be attacked again.

Does no one remember Guiliana giving back that HUGE check to the Sheik from Saudi Arabia after he said " BUT" and added in how it was all our fault.

The left is choke full of people that "detest" America. And Europe is choke full of fools, racists, elitists and haters of America. Have we forgotten that Europe wanted Kerry to win, because he was "nuianced" meaning he was so fickle he changed what he stood for depending on who he was talking to. What was that... " I voted against the war, before I voted for it" Or was it " I voted for the war, before I voted against it"? Europe wanted Kerry cause they figured they could depend on him to do nothing without their permission.

Lets get something Straight, Bush won 2004 , not because he was beloved and because everyone thought he was great president, he won because his opponent was Kerry. The democrats shot themselves in the foot in 2004. Think about it, with total unabashed 24 hour support from every Main Stream media outlet except Fox the Dems couldn't pay people to vote for Kerry.

When the democrats stop letting the far left liberals run the party they will be a force to contend with. Even the 2006 so called democratic victory was full of "moderate" democrats. People that ran as democrats but as moderate or "gasp" conservative democrats.

The US population is mostly unaffiliated, i think the last few studies and polls have indicated only about 30 percent of americans claim democrat and another 30 percent republican. That leaves 40 percent that need to be convinced to vote for the candidate. The republicans have problems now because they seem to be getting to far right of center.

Whats funny is Bush is no Conservative. he is a little right of center.
 

onedomino

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These murderous extremists think they have nothing to lose. What about their families and friends? What do they have to lose? Are they in any way culpable for spawning, nurturing, or encouraging these religious psychopaths? Israelis sometimes bulldoze the houses of the families of homicide bombers. I watched TV today where some “terrorism expert” blamed the internet for spreading the jihadist message. If that’s accurate why aren’t all that use the net homicide bombers? No, it goes a lot deeper than just the net. Who pays the price for providing the home environment where these killers emerge? What if these guys grew up in homes where hatred is on the curriculum? Should the teachers get off free? Anyway, these six people arrested today, if guilty, should be locked up in a supermax prison for life, no parole...ever.
 

onedomino

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The US population is mostly unaffiliated, i think the last few studies and polls have indicated only about 30 percent of americans claim democrat and another 30 percent republican. That leaves 40 percent that need to be convinced to vote for the candidate. The republicans have problems now because they seem to be getting to far right of center.

Whats funny is Bush is no Conservative. he is a little right of center.
It can be a real problem when you get the government you deserve. For example, the vast majority of Americans do not vote in the Presidential primaries. Thus the far right and far left end up with a disproportionate influence on candidate behavior and who wins the primary races. When we do not participate, we deserve what we get.
 

red states rule

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CBS Adopts Olbermann-esque Spin and Charges Terrorist Arrests Over-Hyped
Posted by Brent Baker on May 8, 2007 - 21:47.
On Tuesday night, following a week in which the CBS Evening News attracted the fewest viewers in decades, the producers decided the Katie Couric-anchored newscast needed an injection of an Olbermann-esque twist: The arrests of six Islamists, for plotting to use automatic weapons to murder troops at Fort Dix, matches the hype around previous captures which fizzled. Armen Keteyian framed his story around how since 9/11 “more than 400,000 names have come under one form of government surveillance or another -- from watch lists to wiretaps. But only a handful of terrorists have been convicted in cases with concrete ties to al-Qaeda.” Keteyian highlighted how cases that “start out as larger, bolder terrorism cases, turn into lesser offenses. According to a study by the NYU Center on Law and Security, of the 550 terrorism cases since 9/11, only 163 individuals have been prosecuted on terrorism charges.” The group's Karen Greenburg then asserted: “The conclusion would be that we've made a lot of hoopla about a number of cases on the grounds of terrorism at the beginning, and they haven't panned out to be terrorism cases.”

But Keteyian didn't bother to alert viewers to the Center for Law and Security's agenda. Greenberg, the Executive Director featured in a soundbite, is “co-editor of The Torture Papers: The Road to Abu Ghraib” and “she is a former Vice President of the Soros Foundation/Open Society Institute,” according to her online bio. Amongst the Fellows at the organization: infamous Clinton sycophant and conservative-basher Sidney Blumenthal and on the Board of Advisers: Dana Priest, the Washington Post reporter who exposed the secret overseas CIA sites to interrogate terrorists. The topic of the group's most recent forum, “The Hidden Roots of War: Christian Zionism and the Neocon Fundamentalist Alliance in America.”

Keith Olbermann dutifully echoed the CBS spin, only with more of an edge as he derided the “extensive and entirely credulous coverage” and dismissed the capture: “The FBI has arrested six morons.” On Tuesday's Countdown on MSNBC, he charged:


“The flaw, though, in the breathless reporting of the purported terror cell: The Bureau [FBI] infiltrated the six person group after its members took video of themselves, practicing with assault weapons, brought the tape to a photo store and had it transferred to DVD. The details of the supposed plot don't seem to hold together that well either, though that did not stop extensive and entirely credulous coverage on TV, the Internet, in print today. The men supposedly had plans to gain access to the base disguised as pizza delivery guys, then cut the power somehow, then quote, 'hit four, five or six Humveees and light the whole place and retreat without any losses.' And take the tape of yourselves practicing and have it copied at FotoMat. In other words, the FBI has arrested six morons.”
Olbermann's dismissal of terrorist arrests as irrelevant -- or as an effort to distract from bad political news for Bush -- is nothing new, as documented in two NewsBusters items in which Brad Wilmouth collated some examples. From last August, check “Olbermann Suggests Bush Timed Terror Plot Arrests for Politics.” And from October of 2005, “Olbermann: Conspiracy of Terror Alerts to Cover Bush's Bad Days.”

Couric's plummeting ratings: TVNewser reported Tuesday, “Last week's CBS Evening News viewership was the lowest it has been since at least 1987, which is as far back as Nielsen records date. It's accurate to call it the smallest audience for the Evening News in decades.” Only 6,050,000 watched Couric, compared to 8,100,000 who tuned into ABC's World News and 7,490,000 who watched the NBC Nightly News.The MRC's Brad Wilmouth corrected the closed-captioning against the video to provide a transcript of the May 8 CBS Evening News story which followed Bob Orr's lead piece summarizing the case:


Armen Keteyian: "This is Armen Keteyian. It's here in the heart of the National Counter-terrorism Center where the tips are tracked, the seeds of homegrown plots like today's at Fort Dix are hopefully prevented. The founder of the Center is John Brennan."

John Brennan, CBS News terrorism analyst and former Director of the National Counter-terrorism Center: "There are other groups like this that are developing the types of materiel and operational planning that's necessary."

Keteyian: "In the wake of 9/11, more than 400,000 names have come under one form of government surveillance or another -- from watch lists to wiretaps. But only a handful of terrorists have been convicted in cases with concrete ties to al-Qaeda -- most notably, shoe bomber Richard Reid and Iyman Faris, sent here to bring down the Brooklyn Bridge. Instead, in the last six years, the Justice Department has turned its attention to what it calls 'preventative prosecutions,' in part because what often start out as larger, bolder terrorism cases, turn into lesser offenses. According to a study by the NYU Center on Law and Security, of the 550 terrorism cases since 9/11, only 163 individuals have been prosecuted on terrorism charges, 387 were charged with lesser crimes like fraud and immigration violations."

Karen Greenburg, NYU Center on Law and Security: "The conclusion would be that we've made a lot of hoopla about a number of cases on the grounds of terrorism at the beginning, and they haven't panned out to be terrorism cases."

Unidentified man: "This is the model for the post-September 11th era."

Keteyian: "Many form a familiar pattern -- lots of fanfare, supposedly inspired by al-Qaeda, and built around undercover informants -- plots like the Miami Seven accused of eyeing the Sears Tower and federal buildings in Florida, and one man fixated on bombing a suburban shopping mall outside Chicago. It's far too early to tell into which category today's case will fall, but there's little doubt in today's world dangerous words and questionable actions bring a big government response, Katie."

http://newsbusters.org/node/12617
 
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Anyone that thinks these "morons" couldn't have gotten on a base are ignorant of basic knowledge. It is a pretty straight forward process to access any military installation that is not on high alert or designated as high security ( the airbases of the Old SAC come to mind)

One of these "morons" already had access, via a permit to deliver Pizza aboard the base. He could easily have entered the base with a passenger ( though 5 would have drawn attention) and done so numerous times ( getting all 5 accomplices aboard) bringing in any amount of material he needed. More importantly he could have done so after dark easily.

State side soldiers do not have ( generally) access to their weapons after normal working hours and they do not have access to ammunition except for specific mission requirements, state side that would be firing range, training exersize or being on an alert or reaction or guard force. I am unaware of Army practice on Alert forces, but there would be at least one if an ammunition dump were aboard base, there would also be armed guards at critical positions, like armorys and security positions that required such. The MPs would be armed and would have some sort of reserve.

6 determined men could have caused a lot of damage before brought to a halt by available assets on most bases. If they knew what they were doing they could have timed it in a way to possibly escape unmolested.

In the Marine Corps Battalions tended to maintain a small reaction force for assigned guard forces. Depending on sites to guard and number of sites this could be as small as a fire team ( 4 marines to as big as what ever the command felt was appropriate) These groups would be armed with pistols and service rifles. Any Ammo storage site would have a reaction force on alert and dedicated to that dump 24 hours a day. Again the size and make up would depend on size of dump and what was stored at dump as well as Command preferences.

Organizing and deploying these "forces" outside their assigned mission areas would require some work and would take some time to accomplish. Basicly unless the Base had a generic reaction force for the entire base, first responders would be MPs and local reaction forces for specific area hit. MPS are police, they are armed with pistols and possibly shotguns, they have rifles and other weapons but normal patrol cars wont have such issued.

Units aboard the base would be unable to access ammunition even if they could arm themselves unless someone up the chain of command ordered a general alert and specifically authorized ammunition distribution. State side ammunition is tightly controlled with a heavy paper trail.
 

red states rule

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I am waiting for the far left to sneer how there was not real terror plot, but another scare tactic of the administration
 

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