Maybe I'm beginning to understand this Trump thing

[ricechickie]

You just equated Trump to a terrorist. American hating, out to destroy America, terrorist. On independence day no less.

Good catch, Sparky.

That is the same mindset.

Yeah, it's the same mindset that Mac1958 criticizes daily on this forum as he claims dominion over his spot at the top of the hill in the middle of the road.

Moderates are necessary for political process. Otherwise, all you have are two extremes fighting for absolute victory. Governance by whiplash as we swing back from one extreme to another.

 

[Picaro]

I do think that's a lot of it.
.

But how far can pure hate sustain them when they lose their health insurance?

lol how much 'insurance' did 'obamacare' provide anybody??? All he did was try to line insurance companies' pockets with mandatory payments into their pockets, while they jacked up ''deductibles' that made it a joke and not real 'insurance' any more, no different than the farce of forcing people to buy auto insurance lowered the prices; all it did was create more hardship on lower income people, period.

The rate of uninsured Americans hits a record low as Obamacare's future remains a question mark

Heath insurance is not anything like auto insurance.

Please Stop Comparing Health Insurance to Car Insurance

so you think paying $400 a month for a policy with $10,000 deductible counts as 'insured'? And then there is the fact that he merely shifted a few million to 'Medicaid', not insurance, and of course the states dole that out, putting yet more people under the thumb of partisan hacks in state offices. you really trying to peddle that as 'more people being insured', too? lol no wonder you're losing elections.

And yes, it's exactly like having the govt. force people to pay for mandatory car insurance.

I'd like you to either A) agree with the attach, B) disagree and prove the figures wrong or C) dispute any of the 4 conclusions I submitted. No one seems willing to do any!
As far as Medicaid.. read what the architect of Obamacare who said passage of Obamacare depended on the "stupidity of the American Voter"... said about Medicaid!
Gruber and his coauthors, using data from the Census Bureau, estimate that Medicaid “produced 63% of the gains [in coverage] that we identified” for 2014.
They also found that much of this gain was attributable to the enrollment in Medicaid of people who were eligible for the program under criteria that preceded the ACA’s Medicaid expansion: Perhaps less obviously, we also found a substantial increase in Medicaid coverage among children and adults who were already eligible for the program before 2014. This population accounted for 44% of the coverage increase.
New Gruber Study Raises Major Questions About Obamacare's Medicaid Expansion
View attachment 136928

I agree with the numbers posted; doesn't prevent me from wanting true reform of health care, or agreeing that it's affordable for either individuals or employers, or wanting much tighter oversight of Medicare fraud, repeal of the HMO legislation scams passed in the 1970's, or insurance companies merely playing games and betting people will die of illnesses before they have to pay up on policies, etc., etc., all of which are valid concerns, regardless of the democratic Party's hogwash about wanting to address any of that; we already know they've never done squat when they had the chance, and never will, another reason many liberals no longer vote for them, and now we see fewer and fewer blacks and hispanics who will buy the snake oil, too, and that is a good sign for the country, Trump or no Trump.

As it is now, many are saving and investing their entire lives, only to end up shoveling it all into the pockets of the health care industry and drug companies for exorbitant over-charges and that has to stop; no reason to be subsidizing medical research and tech just to benefit a tiny handful of super-rich and screw everybody else.

 

[healthmyths]

But how far can pure hate sustain them when they lose their health insurance?

lol how much 'insurance' did 'obamacare' provide anybody??? All he did was try to line insurance companies' pockets with mandatory payments into their pockets, while they jacked up ''deductibles' that made it a joke and not real 'insurance' any more, no different than the farce of forcing people to buy auto insurance lowered the prices; all it did was create more hardship on lower income people, period.

The rate of uninsured Americans hits a record low as Obamacare's future remains a question mark

Heath insurance is not anything like auto insurance.

Please Stop Comparing Health Insurance to Car Insurance

so you think paying $400 a month for a policy with $10,000 deductible counts as 'insured'? And then there is the fact that he merely shifted a few million to 'Medicaid', not insurance, and of course the states dole that out, putting yet more people under the thumb of partisan hacks in state offices. you really trying to peddle that as 'more people being insured', too? lol no wonder you're losing elections.

And yes, it's exactly like having the govt. force people to pay for mandatory car insurance.

I'd like you to either A) agree with the attach, B) disagree and prove the figures wrong or C) dispute any of the 4 conclusions I submitted. No one seems willing to do any!
As far as Medicaid.. read what the architect of Obamacare who said passage of Obamacare depended on the "stupidity of the American Voter"... said about Medicaid!
Gruber and his coauthors, using data from the Census Bureau, estimate that Medicaid “produced 63% of the gains [in coverage] that we identified” for 2014.
They also found that much of this gain was attributable to the enrollment in Medicaid of people who were eligible for the program under criteria that preceded the ACA’s Medicaid expansion: Perhaps less obviously, we also found a substantial increase in Medicaid coverage among children and adults who were already eligible for the program before 2014. This population accounted for 44% of the coverage increase.
New Gruber Study Raises Major Questions About Obamacare's Medicaid Expansion
View attachment 136928

I agree with the number posted; doesn't prevent me from wanting true reform of health care, or agreeing that it's affordable for either individuals or employers, or wanting much tighter oversight of Medicare fraud, repeal of the HMO legislation scams passed in the 1970's, or insurance companies merely playing games and betting people will die of illnesses before they have to pay up on policies, etc., etc., all of which are valid concerns, regardless of the democratic Party's hogwash about wanting to address any of that; we already know they've never done squat when they had the chance, and never will, another reason many liberals no longer vote for them, and now we see fewer and fewer blacks and hispanics who will buy the snake oil, too, and that is a good sign for the country, Trump or no Trump.

Well if you agree with the number then there NEVER was a "health insurance crisis" mandating Obamacare.
Now you mentioned true reform of health care then please review the following and tell me where you disagree or agree...depending on your occupation!

 

[healthmyths]

You just equated Trump to a terrorist. American hating, out to destroy America, terrorist. On independence day no less.

Good catch, Sparky.

That is the same mindset.

Yeah, it's the same mindset that Mac1958 criticizes daily on this forum as he claims dominion over his spot at the top of the hill in the middle of the road.

Moderates are necessary for political process. Otherwise, all you have are two extremes fighting for absolute victory. Governance by whiplash as we swing back from one extreme to another.

Moderates ARE NOT Necessary!
Principled political participants instead.
Principles that MOST Americans agree on which is why Trump in spite of being a former Democrat as Reagan said.."I didn't leave the Democrat party it left me"!
Lack of common principles by the majority of Progressive/liberal/Democrats willing to sacrifice principles to gain political power is the difference.
One major principle that the VAST majority of Progressive/liberal/Democrats has abandoned is this which was first suggested by an American Indian.
In 1744, Canassatego, leader of the Onondaga nation and spokesman for the Iroquois Confederation, advised the British colonists:
Our wise Forefathers established Union and Amity between the Five Nations; this has made us formidable, this has given us great weight and Authority with our Neighboring Nations. We are a powerful confederacy, and, by your observing the same Methods our wise Forefathers have taken, you will acquire fresh Strength and Power; therefore, whatever befalls you, never fall out with one another.
Canassatego was concerned that the British colonies lacked a coordinated policy to deal with the military threat coming from New France. He made similar recommendations about colonial unity at another conference in 1745. His words became a central part of the Iroquois Influence Thesis, the controversial proposal that the Iroquois League was a model for the United States Constitution.
Canasatego - Wikipedia
In other words the 50 states should be the place to test out ideas, principles and if applicable become Federal. But chief responsibility of the Federal government though
was the common defense! It was only when people like Wilson/FDR and later Federal power hungry politicians sacrificed these fundamental principles that we've had
this schism! The truly sad commentary on today's Americans is some believe EVERYTHING the biased Progressive/liberal/Democrat-leaning MSM puts out.
Fortunately though Trump's tweets are going directly to Americans!

 

[Mac1958]

You just equated Trump to a terrorist. American hating, out to destroy America, terrorist. On independence day no less.

Good catch, Sparky.

That is the same mindset.

Yeah, it's the same mindset that Mac1958 criticizes daily on this forum as he claims dominion over his spot at the top of the hill in the middle of the road.

Moderates are necessary for political process. Otherwise, all you have are two extremes fighting for absolute victory. Governance by whiplash as we swing back from one extreme to another.

Yep, and fortunately, the wingers are still in the minority.

At least for now.
.

 

[Indeependent]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming **** YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "**** it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, **** it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final **** YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

Except Trump voters aren't in the building.

 

[Mac1958]

Moderates are necessary for political process. Otherwise, all you have are two extremes fighting for absolute victory. Governance by whiplash as we swing back from one extreme to another.

Moderates ARE NOT Necessary! Principled political participants instead.

I'm afraid I don't see a lot of principle in joining a tribe and just defending that turf.

It takes more principle to do the opposite, to think for yourself and take incoming from both ends.
.

 

[ricechickie]

You just equated Trump to a terrorist. American hating, out to destroy America, terrorist. On independence day no less.

Good catch, Sparky.

That is the same mindset.

Yeah, it's the same mindset that Mac1958 criticizes daily on this forum as he claims dominion over his spot at the top of the hill in the middle of the road.

Moderates are necessary for political process. Otherwise, all you have are two extremes fighting for absolute victory. Governance by whiplash as we swing back from one extreme to another.

Yep, and fortunately, the wingers are still in the minority.

At least for now.
.

Have you noticed more and more a pressure to "choose a side"?

I see it take a form of, when stating one position on one topic, people jump in and "surmise" your position on every other issue.

 

[Pete7469]

I'm afraid I don't see a lot of principle in joining a tribe and just defending that turf.

It takes more principle to do the opposite, to think for yourself and take incoming from both ends.
.

One end is right, one end is wrong. If you're taking shit from the wrong, you're doing the right thing.

Which means democrooks will be pissed.

And that doesn't mean the GOP is right, but you can count on the democrooks being wrong.

 

[ricechickie]

I'm afraid I don't see a lot of principle in joining a tribe and just defending that turf.

It takes more principle to do the opposite, to think for yourself and take incoming from both ends.
.

One end is right, one end is wrong. If you're taking shit from the wrong, you're doing the right thing.

Which means democrooks will be pissed.

You illustrate that you are part of the problem.

 

[Mac1958]

Have you noticed more and more a pressure to "choose a side"? I see it take a form of, when stating one position on one topic, people jump in and "surmise" your position on every other issue.

Oh, holy shit yeah. That shows you how binary our politics (and thought processes) have become. It's getting worse, and it's getting dangerous.

A hardcore partisan ideologue's biggest threat is not a hardcore partisan ideologue from the other side, they're easy. A hardcore partisan ideologue's biggest threat is someone who chooses to think for themselves.
.

 

[Derelict_Drvr]

I keep hearing in this thread that Trump is dividing the people worse than any other President.

I call Bullshit.

The divide began in earnest with Bush 43 when Democrats refused to accept the fact that recount after recount, W. won Florida, and thus the election. Democrats committed self-estrangement when all anybody heard from them was "Shrub's not MY President".

The divide widened because of 44's, among other things, apparent black-, and Muslim-centric stance. Republicans came to realize that Obama wanted to be President not for everyone, but only for those he deemed to be oppressed.

Now with Trump we're back to the Democrats pulling temper tantrums because, well, "Republicans did it first!" which is total horseshit. It all started with 43 when Democrats took the midterms in 2006, they began blocking W. at every turn.

After the 2008 election when Democrats gained a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, they began ramming through legislation that would make America anew in their socialistic image. Further alienating huge swathes of Americans. The 2010 midterm was America's response to the previous 2 years and should have convinced Obama that his policies were not acceptable. It didn't.

In conclusion, to blame Trump for the divide we have in the country is disingenuous when it actually started to metastasize in 2000 with 537 votes.

 

[ricechickie]

Have you noticed more and more a pressure to "choose a side"? I see it take a form of, when stating one position on one topic, people jump in and "surmise" your position on every other issue.

Oh, holy shit yeah. That shows you how binary our politics (and thought processes) have become. It's getting worse, and it's getting dangerous.

A hardcore partisan ideologue's biggest threat is not a hardcore partisan ideologue from the other side, they're easy. A hardcore partisan ideologue's biggest threat is someone who chooses to think for themselves.
.

I agree. However, when we vote for a person, they are part of a party, and basically you're voting for that party's platform, whether you endorse it all or not.

 

[Preacher]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming **** YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "**** it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, **** it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final **** YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

Pretty damn close to why I voted for him. I also liked and approved of his stances. Him destroying the system is just a HUGE bonus.

 

[Mac1958]

Pretty damn close to why I voted for him. I also liked and approved of his stances. Him destroying the system is just a HUGE bonus.

Thanks, I've had a few folks agree so far.
.

 

[Preacher]

Which is better? A government uncontrolled by any law, or to burn it down?

Okay, there ya go, I think that's a pretty common opinion.

Really? I don't think so. I think many Americans think we need more government.

No, I mean a common opinion among Trump supporters.
.

I think we need government but the RIGHT kind,with the RIGHT priorities.

 

[Votto]

You just equated Trump to a terrorist. American hating, out to destroy America, terrorist. On independence day no less.

No doubt, another left winger will grab a gun to hunt down the GOP after reading this

 

[Tehon]

You just equated Trump to a terrorist. American hating, out to destroy America, terrorist. On independence day no less.

No doubt, another left winger will grab a gun to hunt down the GOP after reading this

You never know. A lot of desperate, confused and emotionally stressed people running around this country.

 

[Tom Horn]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States: This is one, final, loud, angry primal scream, an historic vent, based on years of pent-up and growing frustration, a guy screaming **** YOU to his enemies as he blows up a building with he and his enemies in it.

They've said it themselves: They really DO NOT CARE what he does while in office, because a higher priority for them is pissing off their enemies. How many times have you seen that said on this forum? They've said it over and over. They're gonna hurt their enemies, even if it means real destruction to everything else. Kind of an over-the-top, hopeless, radical chemotherapy treatment for a terminal cancer patient.

Trump's is the first "**** it, blow it up, I don't give a shit" presidency. They've been made angrier and angrier by people who have a vested professional interest in fanning the flames, and I also think they realize they let it all get away from them, and now it's just too late. So, **** it. Blow it up. Then let it burn.

So Trump is their last, loud gasp, their final **** YOU, and they're gonna cheer as the building goes up in flames.
.

While you may have one of the better avatars on this board, you're dumb as a sack of rocks. We just witnessed 8 years of what you're talking about....as dismal and forlorn a time as there has ever been in this country. You got used to it....thought it was the new normal. Trump comes along, starts running the country like a business and you're flabbergasted. Next time you're tempted to fake being open-minded about the future, just send a sawbuck to Pocahontas and roll a fatty.

 

[Mac1958]

After a LOT of observation and asking a LOT of questions, I've settled on one specific theory as to why Trump's fans have watched and cheered as he has done what he has done to the office of President of the United States.

While you may have one of the better avatars on this board, you're dumb as a sack of rocks.

Well, as I said in another post:

If the argument is "yes, his behaviors can be pretty bad, and yes, I do get embarrassed by them, but I'll live with them for now, and I think that when the dust settles the country will be significantly better off" - okay, that's a reasonable and decent argument and we can continue from there.

But if the argument is "What bad behaviors? I don't see any bad behaviors! And Obama's behaviors were worse!" - then trying to have an honest conversation about Trump's presidency is pretty much a waste of time.