Zone1 May G-d protect the innocent

[BULLDOG]

You missed the point, forgetting Hebrew is a picturesque language, not a subjective language. The message is, Destroy all that is evil, down to the smallest amount. Do not gather up any of the ill-gotten gains.

From the English translation you create your own anguish imagining the children of men who raped, castrated, and murdered other children also being killed.

If you prefer dwelling on children: The Israelites suffered tens of thousands of their own children being killed or castrated--and their mothers and sisters raped--well, the Israelites should bear all that without complaint and love their enemies, perhaps giving back all that had been stolen so that they might be in good health to do more raping, castrating, and killing. (Here's a reason for you to lament God not protecting the preyed upon from evil people. All God's doing, all God's fault, right?)

Consider I am making no judgment or justification at all. In fact, isn't it you who have taken sides, judged and condemned how a people reacted when under fierce, underhanded, rear-attacks that first mowed down women and children? I'm merely presenting what happened, how language differs, how written Biblical accounts differ greatly over modern day news, Encyclopedic, or text book accounts.

You want the Bible and God discredited. Shrug. It's not your story. Just a perspective.

Despite the drifting of focal points, the discussion was about whether a god exists. I interjected the question of if the god of the bible does exit, is he in fact loving and compassionate or or hateful and petty. I did not create any anguish. The words ordering the death of children are there and clear. There is no ambiguity about the deaths of innocent children being either ordered or undertaken by the god described. What the Israelis suffered doesn't justify the murder of innocent children. If my brother sells drugs, should I be sent to prison? Punishing innocent children for acts they didn't participate in and had no control over is petty and cruel.
Of course, the ability to pick and choose which parts to ignore give you great leeway to justify a wide range of actions.

 

[Meriweather]

Despite the drifting of focal points, the discussion was about whether a god exists. I interjected the question of if the god of the bible does exit, is he in fact loving and compassionate or or hateful and petty. I did not create any anguish. The words ordering the death of children are there and clear. There is no ambiguity about the deaths of innocent children being either ordered or undertaken by the god described. What the Israelis suffered doesn't justify the murder of innocent children. If my brother sells drugs, should I be sent to prison? Punishing innocent children for acts they didn't participate in and had no control over is petty and cruel.
Of course, the ability to pick and choose which parts to ignore give you great leeway to justify a wide range of actions.

I get it. You are absolutely convinced that God commanded the death of children and that the Israelites always carried out God's commands to the letter. That's why they never made any idols or worshiped other god, or heaven forbid had sex on the altar, in front of the Tabernacle of God's presence, etc. When the order came to take no prisoners, the Israelites obediently murdered all the women, children, and infants. I dare you to tell me that's not "Take no prisoners means" when you are convinced the Hebrew words mean exactly that. The Hebrew language has very few words, less than ten thousand, and those few words are used to convey multiple meanings. You also reject the fact that Hebrew stories embellish, exaggerate, and emphasize certain acts to paint a memorable picture that keeps its lesson/them in the memories of all, long after the event and the eye-witnesses are gone. Also, "God said" is meant to convey the highest authority.

I'm not suspicious of God in the Bible--I've met and experienced God. You know who I've never met or experienced and am highly suspicious of? Samuel. I tell you this, because I do understand your suspicion of God, whom I understand you have never met or experienced. I know Jews view Samuel as a great prophet and priest. I view him as a great political hack. I'll grant he may well have had Israel's best interest at heart, but look at Samuel's actions. For ages God said, "No king." Who said that God had changed his mind? Samuel. Samuel said God selected Saul to be king. When Saul and Samuel didn't agree, Samuel simply announced God was going to remove Saul as king and put David in his place. Saul saw no problem with the Israelites socializing with other tribes, and befriending being merciful to some after their defeat. Samuel saw a huge problem with this, and it was Samuel--claiming it was what God wanted--who slaughtered the Amalekites' leader and livestock when Saul failed to do this. Who was right: Saul or Samuel? I cannot say, because I understand why Saul thought he made the right choice, and I understand why Samuel was convinced his was the right choice.

You and I did not live in those times, face warrior peoples and be forced to make hard, bitter decisions in order not only for the survival of adults, but to also ensure the world would be a more peaceful, safer place for their children and grandchildren. Samuel and Saul were both forced into making decisions that would shape the lifetime, fate, and history of their people--mostly their descendants. You are in favor of having let the children of the enemies survive, grow to adulthood and continue the cycle. I have immense pity for people (both sides) who lived in those times, and even more for their leaders (both sides). I doubt I could have done any better, no matter what my role, no matter what my decisions. How about you?

 

[BULLDOG]

I get it. You are absolutely convinced that God commanded the death of children and that the Israelites always carried out God's commands to the letter. That's why they never made any idols or worshiped other god, or heaven forbid had sex on the altar, in front of the Tabernacle of God's presence, etc. When the order came to take no prisoners, the Israelites obediently murdered all the women, children, and infants. I dare you to tell me that's not "Take no prisoners means" when you are convinced the Hebrew words mean exactly that. The Hebrew language has very few words, less than ten thousand, and those few words are used to convey multiple meanings. You also reject the fact that Hebrew stories embellish, exaggerate, and emphasize certain acts to paint a memorable picture that keeps its lesson/them in the memories of all, long after the event and the eye-witnesses are gone. Also, "God said" is meant to convey the highest authority.

I'm not suspicious of God in the Bible--I've met and experienced God. You know who I've never met or experienced and am highly suspicious of? Samuel. I tell you this, because I do understand your suspicion of God, whom I understand you have never met or experienced. I know Jews view Samuel as a great prophet and priest. I view him as a great political hack. I'll grant he may well have had Israel's best interest at heart, but look at Samuel's actions. For ages God said, "No king." Who said that God had changed his mind? Samuel. Samuel said God selected Saul to be king. When Saul and Samuel didn't agree, Samuel simply announced God was going to remove Saul as king and put David in his place. Saul saw no problem with the Israelites socializing with other tribes, and befriending being merciful to some after their defeat. Samuel saw a huge problem with this, and it was Samuel--claiming it was what God wanted--who slaughtered the Amalekites' leader and livestock when Saul failed to do this. Who was right: Saul or Samuel? I cannot say, because I understand why Saul thought he made the right choice, and I understand why Samuel was convinced his was the right choice.

You and I did not live in those times, face warrior peoples and be forced to make hard, bitter decisions in order not only for the survival of adults, but to also ensure the world would be a more peaceful, safer place for their children and grandchildren. Samuel and Saul were both forced into making decisions that would shape the lifetime, fate, and history of their people--mostly their descendants. You are in favor of having let the children of the enemies survive, grow to adulthood and continue the cycle. I have immense pity for people (both sides) who lived in those times, and even more for their leaders (both sides). I doubt I could have done any better, no matter what my role, no matter what my decisions. How about you?

Got it. You choose to mix and match different parts of the bible, and completely ignore much of the text to finally get a narritive that you are comfortable with. All I can do i go by the text as it is written. You are certainly allowed to do as you will with biblical text. Torture it all you want till you are comfortable with your adjustments. Let me know if you come up with a non-crazy reason to believe a god exists.

 

[Meriweather]

Got it. You choose to mix and match different parts of the bible, and completely ignore much of the text to finally get a narritive that you are comfortable with. All I can do i go by the text as it is written. You are certainly allowed to do as you will with biblical text. Torture it all you want till you are comfortable with your adjustments. Let me know if you come up with a non-crazy reason to believe a god exists.

No, you don't "Got it."

For decades, I chose to continue to research is the entire story from as many informational angles possible. Interesting though. I see you looking at a few Bible verses and jumping to your own conclusions based on what...perhaps a short page of a few paragraphs from this book and/or that book of the Bible? What I do get, is that you are satisfied with those few verses and your own conclusions. I always want to know more, and I haven't stopped digging for it. (It's that seek and you will find mentality I've had since I was a toddler.)

Nor do I have your mentality that people are "allowed" to do as they will with Biblical text. My mentality is to search out the intent of the original authors to their original audience. That's extremely difficult to do as it takes years of study and research. You think each person should read through a passage, come up with his/her own conclusions based on mere reading. Your conclusion is that God is being presented as cruel and you feel you are "allowed" that conclusion...based on how many minutes of reading through the account(s)? Out of curiosity, who (other than you) "allowed" it?

 

[JohnDB]

 

[frigidweirdo]

I awoke in the middle of the night and had the urge to share these.sentimemts I received. Whether in places where war is raining down or in locations of relative peace, may we all pray for G-d to defend the innocent. In a world where too much injustice prevails, especially in times of war, may tbe good L-rd limit and even deny the injustice through his almighty power. Thank you for your time and/or any prayers.

Does he though?

Back in the past infant mortality in some cities was like 75%.

Now it's 5.6 out of 1000 kids under the age of 5 in the US

Infant Mortality

Infant mortality in the U.S., including causes and differences in rates among population groups.

www.cdc.gov

"
More than 20,500 infants died in the United States in 2022. The five leading causes of infant death in 2022 were:

1. Birth defects.
2. Preterm birth and low birth weight.
3. Sudden infant death syndrome.
4. Unintentional injuries (e.g., car crashes).
5. Maternal pregnancy complications"

Worst states for infant mortality, Mississippi, then a load of other right wing states.

 

[BULLDOG]

No, you don't "Got it."

For decades, I chose to continue to research is the entire story from as many informational angles possible. Interesting though. I see you looking at a few Bible verses and jumping to your own conclusions based on what...perhaps a short page of a few paragraphs from this book and/or that book of the Bible? What I do get, is that you are satisfied with those few verses and your own conclusions. I always want to know more, and I haven't stopped digging for it. (It's that seek and you will find mentality I've had since I was a toddler.)

Nor do I have your mentality that people are "allowed" to do as they will with Biblical text. My mentality is to search out the intent of the original authors to their original audience. That's extremely difficult to do as it takes years of study and research. You think each person should read through a passage, come up with his/her own conclusions based on mere reading. Your conclusion is that God is being presented as cruel and you feel you are "allowed" that conclusion...based on how many minutes of reading through the account(s)? Out of curiosity, who (other than you) "allowed" it?

Trust me. That one aspect of the bible is just a tiny part of what I researched. It was enough, however to cover the particular point I was making. Unlike many, I find that casting across a wide range of subjects only confuses the discussion. Bouncing around like a ping pong ball seems to be a common tactic with religious folk.

 

[Zebra]

Unable to put the letter "o" in your post on a mythical deity?

that is the Jewish way of writing

 

[Zebra]

shockedcanadian

why do you leave out the o in God and Lord?

 

[shockedcanadian]

shockedcanadian

why do you leave out the o in God and Lord?

Reverance

 

[BULLDOG]

Reverance

My keyboard sometime leaves out an s or a w, but I just call that a worn out keyboard.

 

[The Irish Ram]

When have the innocent ever needed protection from God? Which changes the question to, Why doesn't humanity protect the innocent?

^ winner. God never said He was supposed to protect the innocent. This is Satan's earth for the time being, where bad things happen. Although, love one another would go far in stopping man's inhumanity to man.

God's protection over us was accomplished on a cross. An eternity of protection, if we choose, as co-heirs with Christ.
The unpleasantness we may endure here on earth is a mere vapor in time compared to the never-ending glorious future our Father has planned for us. So praise his name in the sunshine and the rain. He's got you...

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Unable to put the letter "o" in your post on a mythical deity?

Funny, but you should educate yourself as to why Jews and those who follow Judaism do that

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Funny, but you should educate yourself as to why Jews and those who follow Judaism do that

No that is something that some rabbi with an opinion tell them to do. They do not have to do that. Not all rabbi’s agree that you should spell God as G-d.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Several places here god wiped out the children. So what did all those children do to deserve the consequence of death? Either it was something really bad, or the god that killed them is petty and mean.

The PHYSICAL life God gives you is not all there is from God's perspective

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Lots of examples in the Bible where children needed protection from god's wrath. You might add a question, but it doesn't replace or eliminate the original question, no matter how much you want it to.

Here's your answer, but I already know you won't accept it.

He has left us here since Adam and Eve because if the DECISION they made.

We have 6,000 years to do our own thing -- AND LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.

THEN He Returns, and Man will be FORCED to accept God's benevolent DICTATORSHIP. Peace will be FORCED on us.

We will all live under the Ten Commandments as our foundational Law

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Lots of examples in the Bible where children needed protection from god's wrath. You might add a question, but it doesn't replace or eliminate the original question, no matter how much you want it to.

Here's your answer, but I already know you won't accept it.

He has left us here since Adam and Eve because if the DECISION they made.

We have 6,000 years to do our own thing -- AND LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.

THEN He Returns, and Man will be FORCED to accept God's benevolent DICTATORSHIP. Peace will be FORCED on us.

We will all live under the Ten Commandments as our foundational Law

 

[Zebra]

I awoke in the middle of the night and had the urge to share these.sentimemts I received. Whether in places where war is raining down or in locations of relative peace, may we all pray for G-d to defend the innocent. In a world where too much injustice prevails, especially in times of war, may tbe good L-rd limit and even deny the injustice through his almighty power. Thank you for your time and/or any prayers.

you are welcome!