mass shooting at oakland nightclub

[Andylusion]

More guns! We need lots more guns...

More guns, and less PC bull crap that has allowed them to remain in the hands of the known criminals.

How about we just deal with criminals? Instead of trying this Forest Gump idiocy that says we can magically make a law to keep people who don't follow laws, from getting guns?

Then again, go to other first world countries and they have murder rates 1/4th that of the US, and guess what? They restrict guns.

Countries that had 1/4 the US murder rate.... BEFORE they restricted guns, whose murder rates have gone UP since restricting guns.

 

[frigidweirdo]

More guns! We need lots more guns...

More guns, and less PC bull crap that has allowed them to remain in the hands of the known criminals.

How about we just deal with criminals? Instead of trying this Forest Gump idiocy that says we can magically make a law to keep people who don't follow laws, from getting guns?

Then again, go to other first world countries and they have murder rates 1/4th that of the US, and guess what? They restrict guns.

Countries that had 1/4 the US murder rate.... BEFORE they restricted guns, whose murder rates have gone UP since restricting guns.

Simplicity huh?

US murder rates went up too. With guns.

Then again murder rates in the UK have also gone down. In fact the ups and downs of murder rates in the UK and US are pretty similar, just that one is always 1/4 the size. So... what?

 

[Andylusion]

More guns! We need lots more guns...

More guns, and less PC bull crap that has allowed them to remain in the hands of the known criminals.

How about we just deal with criminals? Instead of trying this Forest Gump idiocy that says we can magically make a law to keep people who don't follow laws, from getting guns?

Then again, go to other first world countries and they have murder rates 1/4th that of the US, and guess what? They restrict guns.

Countries that had 1/4 the US murder rate.... BEFORE they restricted guns, whose murder rates have gone UP since restricting guns.

Simplicity huh?

US murder rates went up too. With guns.

Then again murder rates in the UK have also gone down. In fact the ups and downs of murder rates in the UK and US are pretty similar, just that one is always 1/4 the size. So... what?

I don't see people on the right-wing claiming that just "having guns" will magically make murder cease.

It's a fact that in states that passed conceal and carry laws, that crime declined after implementation. But even so, there are larger and more important trends. Namely the attacks against the policy by the citizens. The more we support protests against police, the more the police pull back. The more police pull back, the more crime there is.

I personally have never believed that just having guns meant crime would magically cease to exist.

You on the other hand, and those like you, have repeatedly and consistently claimed that getting rid of guns would do exactly that.

Well the evidence is in, and it doesn't support your claim. Every single country that has passed massive gun laws, has seen an increase in crime, and gun crime.

The UK in particular was very striking because gun crime had fallen every single year up to the ban, and then reversed and increased.

Now it is true that specifically gun crime has fallen in recent years, but that would ignore the fact that the UK in response to the drastic increase in murders, assaults, rape and all crime, drastically increased their police force, by nearly 50%.

Well crap... of course if you increase law enforcement you'll have a reduction in crime. I think most non-brain-damaged people can grasp that regardless of gun laws, if you drastically increase law enforcement, crime will drop. This doesn't require a Ph.D.

See up until the gun ban in the UK, the police force had been shrinking. Crime was declining. With the gun ban, the left-wing in the UK, just like the left-wing here, was living in the mythology that if you ban guns, crime will decline even more than the trend. Instead, they not only had to stop cutting the police force, but drastically increase it to offset the damage of gun control laws which jacked up crime across the board.

 

[frigidweirdo]

More guns, and less PC bull crap that has allowed them to remain in the hands of the known criminals.

How about we just deal with criminals? Instead of trying this Forest Gump idiocy that says we can magically make a law to keep people who don't follow laws, from getting guns?

Then again, go to other first world countries and they have murder rates 1/4th that of the US, and guess what? They restrict guns.

Countries that had 1/4 the US murder rate.... BEFORE they restricted guns, whose murder rates have gone UP since restricting guns.

Simplicity huh?

US murder rates went up too. With guns.

Then again murder rates in the UK have also gone down. In fact the ups and downs of murder rates in the UK and US are pretty similar, just that one is always 1/4 the size. So... what?

I don't see people on the right-wing claiming that just "having guns" will magically make murder cease.

It's a fact that in states that passed conceal and carry laws, that crime declined after implementation. But even so, there are larger and more important trends. Namely the attacks against the policy by the citizens. The more we support protests against police, the more the police pull back. The more police pull back, the more crime there is.

I personally have never believed that just having guns meant crime would magically cease to exist.

You on the other hand, and those like you, have repeatedly and consistently claimed that getting rid of guns would do exactly that.

Well the evidence is in, and it doesn't support your claim. Every single country that has passed massive gun laws, has seen an increase in crime, and gun crime.

The UK in particular was very striking because gun crime had fallen every single year up to the ban, and then reversed and increased.

Now it is true that specifically gun crime has fallen in recent years, but that would ignore the fact that the UK in response to the drastic increase in murders, assaults, rape and all crime, drastically increased their police force, by nearly 50%.

Well crap... of course if you increase law enforcement you'll have a reduction in crime. I think most non-brain-damaged people can grasp that regardless of gun laws, if you drastically increase law enforcement, crime will drop. This doesn't require a Ph.D.

See up until the gun ban in the UK, the police force had been shrinking. Crime was declining. With the gun ban, the left-wing in the UK, just like the left-wing here, was living in the mythology that if you ban guns, crime will decline even more than the trend. Instead, they not only had to stop cutting the police force, but drastically increase it to offset the damage of gun control laws which jacked up crime across the board.

Crime has been reduced in states that have implemented carry and conceal AND in states which haven't. Crime rates in the UK have gone down the same as those in the US, the same as in New York or Alaska. It's not about the guns. It's about modern technology giving people more stuff to do than go be bored with a gun or anything else.

You're picking and choosing statistics to fit your agenda, do you not want to know the truth?

No, I have never, ever said that getting rid of guns would make crime disappear.

You say the evidence is in, but I don't see you presenting the evidence. So the evidence isn't in, is it?

 

[2aguy]

More guns! We need lots more guns...

More guns, and less PC bull crap that has allowed them to remain in the hands of the known criminals.

How about we just deal with criminals? Instead of trying this Forest Gump idiocy that says we can magically make a law to keep people who don't follow laws, from getting guns?

Then again, go to other first world countries and they have murder rates 1/4th that of the US, and guess what? They restrict guns.

Countries that had 1/4 the US murder rate.... BEFORE they restricted guns, whose murder rates have gone UP since restricting guns.

Simplicity huh?

US murder rates went up too. With guns.

Then again murder rates in the UK have also gone down. In fact the ups and downs of murder rates in the UK and US are pretty similar, just that one is always 1/4 the size. So... what?

You are wrong......our murder rates and our gun murder rates went down between the 1990s and 2016....do you ever do any real research....our gun murder rate went down 49% as the UK rate stayed the same after they confiscated their guns...and last year the gun crime rate in the UK, an island, with borders surrounded by an ocean.....went up 4% around the country, and up 10% in the major cities......

we went from 200 million guns in the 1990s to 357-400 million guns and our gun murder rate dropped 49%........

 

[2aguy]

How about we just deal with criminals? Instead of trying this Forest Gump idiocy that says we can magically make a law to keep people who don't follow laws, from getting guns?

Then again, go to other first world countries and they have murder rates 1/4th that of the US, and guess what? They restrict guns.

Countries that had 1/4 the US murder rate.... BEFORE they restricted guns, whose murder rates have gone UP since restricting guns.

Simplicity huh?

US murder rates went up too. With guns.

Then again murder rates in the UK have also gone down. In fact the ups and downs of murder rates in the UK and US are pretty similar, just that one is always 1/4 the size. So... what?

I don't see people on the right-wing claiming that just "having guns" will magically make murder cease.

It's a fact that in states that passed conceal and carry laws, that crime declined after implementation. But even so, there are larger and more important trends. Namely the attacks against the policy by the citizens. The more we support protests against police, the more the police pull back. The more police pull back, the more crime there is.

I personally have never believed that just having guns meant crime would magically cease to exist.

You on the other hand, and those like you, have repeatedly and consistently claimed that getting rid of guns would do exactly that.

Well the evidence is in, and it doesn't support your claim. Every single country that has passed massive gun laws, has seen an increase in crime, and gun crime.

The UK in particular was very striking because gun crime had fallen every single year up to the ban, and then reversed and increased.

Now it is true that specifically gun crime has fallen in recent years, but that would ignore the fact that the UK in response to the drastic increase in murders, assaults, rape and all crime, drastically increased their police force, by nearly 50%.

Well crap... of course if you increase law enforcement you'll have a reduction in crime. I think most non-brain-damaged people can grasp that regardless of gun laws, if you drastically increase law enforcement, crime will drop. This doesn't require a Ph.D.

See up until the gun ban in the UK, the police force had been shrinking. Crime was declining. With the gun ban, the left-wing in the UK, just like the left-wing here, was living in the mythology that if you ban guns, crime will decline even more than the trend. Instead, they not only had to stop cutting the police force, but drastically increase it to offset the damage of gun control laws which jacked up crime across the board.

Crime has been reduced in states that have implemented carry and conceal AND in states which haven't. Crime rates in the UK have gone down the same as those in the US, the same as in New York or Alaska. It's not about the guns. It's about modern technology giving people more stuff to do than go be bored with a gun or anything else.

You're picking and choosing statistics to fit your agenda, do you not want to know the truth?

No, I have never, ever said that getting rid of guns would make crime disappear.

You say the evidence is in, but I don't see you presenting the evidence. So the evidence isn't in, is it?

It has gone down more with states that allow carry....and it has increased in the cities that have the strictest gun control and who have supported the black lies matter movement, and increased the Ferguson effect by attacking their own police....