Mass Shooting At A Fort Myers Nightclub

[Skull Pilot]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

So why has the right blocked all money going to scientifically researching Gun Crime?

How the **** should I know?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

So why has the right blocked all money going to scientifically researching Gun Crime?

I watched the first half of that Will Smith film about head injuries in football. It's the same thing. Where people's interests lie, they don't want people to know the truth.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

The UK has always has a lower murder rate

In fact the murder rte in the UK has increased from what it was in 1950
And the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014
List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SO over 6 decades the murder rate in our country has risen and declined to the same rate
In UK the country gun control nuts like to use as an example in the same 60 year period the murder rte has risen and declined but now remains higher than it was 60 years ago

And that is after the UK passed the 1968 gun control laws

SO there seems to be other forces at work and not just gun ownership

But if I say there are cultural and demographic differences between the US and the UK I will undoubtedly be called a racist

So the UK murder rate has always been lower, therefore it's destined to always be lower? That's a weak argument. That's like saying it's higher so let's not bother to fix the problems.

This is all that seems to happen on here, and in American politics in general. Excuses for why nothing should ever change.

Yes, there are other forces at work other than guns. Of course there are. These also need to be looked at. However in general they're not either.

Yes the consistently lower murder rates are relevant.

And Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago

And I never mentioned any future trends but if you want to put money on it I'll bet you that the murder rate in the UK will be lower than in the US 60 years from now.

ANd just what exactly do you want to change? Do you want to limit gun ownership? We already do that. Do you want to ban certain guns? We already do that

So just what exactly is it you think we should do tp curb gun crime and not curb the rights of law abiding citizens?

It might be the same as it was 60 years ago, but what? Guns were there before, guns are there now. Nothing has changed, and the whole time other first world countries have had lower crime, even if they've had an increase (which the US had also).

You want to bet the UK murder rate will be lower? I'd bet that too, mostly out of knowledge that the US doesn't solve problems much, and other countries do.

What do I want to change? It's a complex issue. But right now it's complex and nothing is being done about it, and people just say "but we have a right", but is the right sensible any more. Times have changed. Limits on firearms aren't very limited. It's like stopping someone from eating 250 bowls of cereal a day, 249 is okay though.

Not curb the rights of citizens? Haha, you put that in at the end. Well, firstly I think people should be open about the issue. That's never going to happen. I mean the partisan nonsense isn't going to change because it's in the interests of the politicians to keep it going.

I do think other things need to change first, like how people vote for one, without that changing nothing else is going to change.

However people need to take a look at the murder rate. When you get people calling for all Muslims to be deported and all that nonsense, and yet the number of murders and killings by Muslims is far, far, far lower than the gun problem in the US, yet they won't do anything about the gun problem but will do something about curbing OTHER PEOPLE.

Nothing has changed?

The UK passed the strictest guns laws ever seen in that country in 1968 and the murder rate is still the same as it was 60 years ago

We have passed thousands of gun laws and our murder rate is the same as it was 60 years ago

Seems to me it's not guns at all that drive murder rtaes

 

[WheelieAddict]

...

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

The UK has always has a lower murder rate

In fact the murder rte in the UK has increased from what it was in 1950
And the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014
List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SO over 6 decades the murder rate in our country has risen and declined to the same rate
In UK the country gun control nuts like to use as an example in the same 60 year period the murder rte has risen and declined but now remains higher than it was 60 years ago

And that is after the UK passed the 1968 gun control laws

SO there seems to be other forces at work and not just gun ownership

But if I say there are cultural and demographic differences between the US and the UK I will undoubtedly be called a racist

So the UK murder rate has always been lower, therefore it's destined to always be lower? That's a weak argument. That's like saying it's higher so let's not bother to fix the problems.

This is all that seems to happen on here, and in American politics in general. Excuses for why nothing should ever change.

Yes, there are other forces at work other than guns. Of course there are. These also need to be looked at. However in general they're not either.

Yes the consistently lower murder rates are relevant.

And Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago

And I never mentioned any future trends but if you want to put money on it I'll bet you that the murder rate in the UK will be lower than in the US 60 years from now.

ANd just what exactly do you want to change? Do you want to limit gun ownership? We already do that. Do you want to ban certain guns? We already do that

So just what exactly is it you think we should do tp curb gun crime and not curb the rights of law abiding citizens?

As I already mentioned gun re-sales through a licensed dealer. As far as getting rid of guns **** that they are useful if a rabid animal comes in my yard im going to shoot it, bear comes around and tries to break in/hurt my pets same thing. Americans need guns, not everyone lives in the city. Also the deer population has exploded around here and we need ethical hunters to help control the population, and most hunters are ethical and skilled outdoorsman who don't waste anything that they take.

 

[Bleipriester]

Very sad. I do not agree to the title, the happening is used to make propaganda. The teenagers wouldn´t have brought guns to their party if they were allowed to. Also, the moment of surprise that is almost always siding with the terrorist attackers must be considered before making such claims.

 

[xband]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

So why has the right blocked all money going to scientifically researching Gun Crime?

How the **** should I know?

Your username Skull Pilot implies high intelligence and how the **** should I know implies ignorance. ; )

 

[frigidweirdo]

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

The UK has always has a lower murder rate

In fact the murder rte in the UK has increased from what it was in 1950
And the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014
List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SO over 6 decades the murder rate in our country has risen and declined to the same rate
In UK the country gun control nuts like to use as an example in the same 60 year period the murder rte has risen and declined but now remains higher than it was 60 years ago

And that is after the UK passed the 1968 gun control laws

SO there seems to be other forces at work and not just gun ownership

But if I say there are cultural and demographic differences between the US and the UK I will undoubtedly be called a racist

So the UK murder rate has always been lower, therefore it's destined to always be lower? That's a weak argument. That's like saying it's higher so let's not bother to fix the problems.

This is all that seems to happen on here, and in American politics in general. Excuses for why nothing should ever change.

Yes, there are other forces at work other than guns. Of course there are. These also need to be looked at. However in general they're not either.

Yes the consistently lower murder rates are relevant.

And Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago

And I never mentioned any future trends but if you want to put money on it I'll bet you that the murder rate in the UK will be lower than in the US 60 years from now.

ANd just what exactly do you want to change? Do you want to limit gun ownership? We already do that. Do you want to ban certain guns? We already do that

So just what exactly is it you think we should do tp curb gun crime and not curb the rights of law abiding citizens?

It might be the same as it was 60 years ago, but what? Guns were there before, guns are there now. Nothing has changed, and the whole time other first world countries have had lower crime, even if they've had an increase (which the US had also).

You want to bet the UK murder rate will be lower? I'd bet that too, mostly out of knowledge that the US doesn't solve problems much, and other countries do.

What do I want to change? It's a complex issue. But right now it's complex and nothing is being done about it, and people just say "but we have a right", but is the right sensible any more. Times have changed. Limits on firearms aren't very limited. It's like stopping someone from eating 250 bowls of cereal a day, 249 is okay though.

Not curb the rights of citizens? Haha, you put that in at the end. Well, firstly I think people should be open about the issue. That's never going to happen. I mean the partisan nonsense isn't going to change because it's in the interests of the politicians to keep it going.

I do think other things need to change first, like how people vote for one, without that changing nothing else is going to change.

However people need to take a look at the murder rate. When you get people calling for all Muslims to be deported and all that nonsense, and yet the number of murders and killings by Muslims is far, far, far lower than the gun problem in the US, yet they won't do anything about the gun problem but will do something about curbing OTHER PEOPLE.

Nothing has changed?

The UK passed the strictest guns laws ever seen in that country in 1968 and the murder rate is still the same as it was 60 years ago

We have passed thousands of gun laws and our murder rate is the same as it was 60 years ago

Seems to me it's not guns at all that drive murder rtaes

Passing guns laws doesn't automatically change things. It depends on the gun law. No gun law in the US has stopped there being guns. So.... The thousands of gun laws in the US don't equate to one gun law in Europe. The number of laws makes no difference. It's the substance.

But times have also changed. Had nothing been done in the UK then murder rates would be much higher. In fact there was a time when the Yardies were a major problem and gun violence soared. Nottingham was nicknamed Shottingham. But it was actually dealt with and the gun murder rate dropped.

It went from 50 in 1999 to 100 in 2002. That's a massive increase. But then it went down to 40 by 2010. Why? It's called being active, solving problems.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

So why has the right blocked all money going to scientifically researching Gun Crime?

How the **** should I know?

Your username Skull Pilot implies high intelligence and how the **** should I know implies ignorance. ; )

Yes I am ignorant of the political machinations and motivations of the amorphous group people refer to as the "right wing"

Please feel free to enlighten us all on those issues and don't forget to link to your sources

 

[Skull Pilot]

The UK has always has a lower murder rate

In fact the murder rte in the UK has increased from what it was in 1950
And the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014
List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SO over 6 decades the murder rate in our country has risen and declined to the same rate
In UK the country gun control nuts like to use as an example in the same 60 year period the murder rte has risen and declined but now remains higher than it was 60 years ago

And that is after the UK passed the 1968 gun control laws

SO there seems to be other forces at work and not just gun ownership

But if I say there are cultural and demographic differences between the US and the UK I will undoubtedly be called a racist

So the UK murder rate has always been lower, therefore it's destined to always be lower? That's a weak argument. That's like saying it's higher so let's not bother to fix the problems.

This is all that seems to happen on here, and in American politics in general. Excuses for why nothing should ever change.

Yes, there are other forces at work other than guns. Of course there are. These also need to be looked at. However in general they're not either.

Yes the consistently lower murder rates are relevant.

And Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago

And I never mentioned any future trends but if you want to put money on it I'll bet you that the murder rate in the UK will be lower than in the US 60 years from now.

ANd just what exactly do you want to change? Do you want to limit gun ownership? We already do that. Do you want to ban certain guns? We already do that

So just what exactly is it you think we should do tp curb gun crime and not curb the rights of law abiding citizens?

It might be the same as it was 60 years ago, but what? Guns were there before, guns are there now. Nothing has changed, and the whole time other first world countries have had lower crime, even if they've had an increase (which the US had also).

You want to bet the UK murder rate will be lower? I'd bet that too, mostly out of knowledge that the US doesn't solve problems much, and other countries do.

What do I want to change? It's a complex issue. But right now it's complex and nothing is being done about it, and people just say "but we have a right", but is the right sensible any more. Times have changed. Limits on firearms aren't very limited. It's like stopping someone from eating 250 bowls of cereal a day, 249 is okay though.

Not curb the rights of citizens? Haha, you put that in at the end. Well, firstly I think people should be open about the issue. That's never going to happen. I mean the partisan nonsense isn't going to change because it's in the interests of the politicians to keep it going.

I do think other things need to change first, like how people vote for one, without that changing nothing else is going to change.

However people need to take a look at the murder rate. When you get people calling for all Muslims to be deported and all that nonsense, and yet the number of murders and killings by Muslims is far, far, far lower than the gun problem in the US, yet they won't do anything about the gun problem but will do something about curbing OTHER PEOPLE.

Nothing has changed?

The UK passed the strictest guns laws ever seen in that country in 1968 and the murder rate is still the same as it was 60 years ago

We have passed thousands of gun laws and our murder rate is the same as it was 60 years ago

Seems to me it's not guns at all that drive murder rtaes

Passing guns laws doesn't automatically change things. It depends on the gun law. No gun law in the US has stopped there being guns. So.... The thousands of gun laws in the US don't equate to one gun law in Europe. The number of laws makes no difference. It's the substance.

But times have also changed. Had nothing been done in the UK then murder rates would be much higher. In fact there was a time when the Yardies were a major problem and gun violence soared. Nottingham was nicknamed Shottingham. But it was actually dealt with and the gun murder rate dropped.

It went from 50 in 1999 to 100 in 2002. That's a massive increase. But then it went down to 40 by 2010. Why? It's called being active, solving problems.

How do you know if nothing had been done the rates would be much higher?

And if you can prove your prescience why haven't you won the lottery?

 

[frigidweirdo]

So the UK murder rate has always been lower, therefore it's destined to always be lower? That's a weak argument. That's like saying it's higher so let's not bother to fix the problems.

This is all that seems to happen on here, and in American politics in general. Excuses for why nothing should ever change.

Yes, there are other forces at work other than guns. Of course there are. These also need to be looked at. However in general they're not either.

Yes the consistently lower murder rates are relevant.

And Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago

And I never mentioned any future trends but if you want to put money on it I'll bet you that the murder rate in the UK will be lower than in the US 60 years from now.

ANd just what exactly do you want to change? Do you want to limit gun ownership? We already do that. Do you want to ban certain guns? We already do that

So just what exactly is it you think we should do tp curb gun crime and not curb the rights of law abiding citizens?

It might be the same as it was 60 years ago, but what? Guns were there before, guns are there now. Nothing has changed, and the whole time other first world countries have had lower crime, even if they've had an increase (which the US had also).

You want to bet the UK murder rate will be lower? I'd bet that too, mostly out of knowledge that the US doesn't solve problems much, and other countries do.

What do I want to change? It's a complex issue. But right now it's complex and nothing is being done about it, and people just say "but we have a right", but is the right sensible any more. Times have changed. Limits on firearms aren't very limited. It's like stopping someone from eating 250 bowls of cereal a day, 249 is okay though.

Not curb the rights of citizens? Haha, you put that in at the end. Well, firstly I think people should be open about the issue. That's never going to happen. I mean the partisan nonsense isn't going to change because it's in the interests of the politicians to keep it going.

I do think other things need to change first, like how people vote for one, without that changing nothing else is going to change.

However people need to take a look at the murder rate. When you get people calling for all Muslims to be deported and all that nonsense, and yet the number of murders and killings by Muslims is far, far, far lower than the gun problem in the US, yet they won't do anything about the gun problem but will do something about curbing OTHER PEOPLE.

Nothing has changed?

The UK passed the strictest guns laws ever seen in that country in 1968 and the murder rate is still the same as it was 60 years ago

We have passed thousands of gun laws and our murder rate is the same as it was 60 years ago

Seems to me it's not guns at all that drive murder rtaes

Passing guns laws doesn't automatically change things. It depends on the gun law. No gun law in the US has stopped there being guns. So.... The thousands of gun laws in the US don't equate to one gun law in Europe. The number of laws makes no difference. It's the substance.

But times have also changed. Had nothing been done in the UK then murder rates would be much higher. In fact there was a time when the Yardies were a major problem and gun violence soared. Nottingham was nicknamed Shottingham. But it was actually dealt with and the gun murder rate dropped.

It went from 50 in 1999 to 100 in 2002. That's a massive increase. But then it went down to 40 by 2010. Why? It's called being active, solving problems.

How do you know if nothing had been done the rates would be much higher?

And if you can prove your prescience why haven't you won the lottery?

Read my post.

 

[Brynmr]

Police are saying it's definitely not Islamic terrorism.

 

[xband]

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

So why has the right blocked all money going to scientifically researching Gun Crime?

How the **** should I know?

Your username Skull Pilot implies high intelligence and how the **** should I know implies ignorance. ; )

Yes I am ignorant of the political machinations and motivations of the amorphous group people refer to as the "right wing"

Please feel free to enlighten us all on those issues and don't forget to link to your sources

I meant no disrespect Sir and make a vain attempt to refute your logic with humor.

 

[The Rabbi]

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

Wrong on every count.
Criminals typically steal guns and resell them to other criminals. Nothing you have outlined would stop that and instead burden lawful gun owners.

Dallas shooter Micah Johnson arranged purchase of AK-47 through Facebook
This seller thought the guy was AOK. I'm not saying having to sell at a licensed facility would have stopped this, but it would be a deterrent. You want to sell your gun small $5.00- $10.00 fee (that goes to the gun shop not the state) and you have to sell it at a licensed shop. Fee is waived for transfers between family

You understand he was not prohibited and could have passed any background check, right?

 

[mrbojanglezs]

its in our constitution and we value the constitution if you don't value it move to Liberal Europe in the Muslin slums.

 

[The Rabbi]

I don't see that comment as being relevant to the issue.

In the UK you can still be murdered.

And so in the UK you must still defend yourself.

Since guns are essentially prohibited in the UK then you must defend yourself with another weapon.

And even then there is still a possibility that the criminal who assaults has a gun and brought it into the UK from France or Belgium.

Yes, you can still be murdered in the UK. You can be murdered anywhere with any weapon, hands, feet, TV, guns.
Murder will always happen.

You can be murdered with a gun in your hand, with a gun in your holster, if you are an armed police officer, etc etc.

However in the UK you are 4 times less likely to be murdered. You are safer.

You may not be able to defend yourself as effectively without a gun in a comparable situation, however the fact is many situations aren't comparable. In the US you're going to come up against people wielding guns.

Alaska has the highest rape rate in the US, 5 times higher than in NY. But they have laxer guns laws, more guns, etc etc.

How is this the case if guns make you safer?

Climb a mountain and fall off a cliff, the mountain murdered you with that sneaky cliff.

As has been stated many times on here, and ignored many times, guns exacerbate a situation, rather than make the situation. I don't need to explain this simple concept to you, do I?

Squirrel gravy over hot biscuits is a mouth watering breakfast. I humbly disagree with you, guns lessen a situation and the bigger the gun the better to prevent a fight.

So how do you account for the US murder rate being 4 times higher than other first world countries then?

t.

We have large numbers of inner city blacks and Hispanics.
Seriously. Strip out gun crimes caused by blacks and Hispanics between age 15 and 25 and out rate of gun crime looks like France's.

 

[Geaux4it]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

(((((()YAWN))))))

Acceptable risk

-Geaux

 

[Rustic]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

Firearms have nothing to do with any of these shootings, the lack of morals Are a byproduct of socialism - is at fault.
That is why we seeing the increase of these under Barrys administration... He's a **** up

 

[defcon4]

Scumbags shot up a teenager event in Florida. One "person of interest" is in custody and police are searching for other(s) Motive unknown and police is in the process to identify the person in custody. 2 young Americans are dead 16 injured, 2 in critical condition
2 Dead, Up to 16 Injured at Teen Nightclub Event in Florida

 

[defcon4]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

Apparently, strict gun control worked in Germany, that's what you are trying to say?
Munich shooting: 9 victims, gunman are dead, police say - CNN.com

 

[Rustic]