Zone1 Mary

[Meriweather]

No can you show me a verse that presents the sins of Joseph, James, or John the Baptist?

I am not declaring any of the above three sinners. Can you show me the verse where an angel said Joseph, James, or John the Baptist were full of grace?

 

[Road Runner]

I am not declaring any of the above three sinners. Can you show me the verse where an angel said Joseph, James, or John the Baptist were full of grace?

No but can you show me a verse where it says that Mary changed Jesus' diaper? Honestly, these petty arguments are just silly.

 

[BreezeWood]

46 Then Mary said,

this occurred 31 years before jesus's notoriety of the 1st century events began and they became known by the populous ... yet someone knew (anything) some how of what mary said those 31 years earlier in a barn .

“My soul praises the Lord;
47 my heart rejoices in God my Savior,

- was this a syndicated recording before anyone ever knew about jesus and preserved for the 4th century madeup christian bible.

they were not jews, mary and joseph - and even so the heavens are not for them, jews a residue of salvation they even seek - nor is that their belief for their messiah.

could this be a case of - "cooking the books".

- hawk and the above are the example of the forgeries and fallacies true religious people recognize throughout the desert transgressions and to avoid that addiction when realistic heavenly renderings are sought - than comic book illiteracy.

 

[theHawk]

this occurred 31 years before jesus's notoriety of the 1st century events began and they became known by the populous ... yet someone knew (anything) some how of what mary said those 31 years earlier in a barn .



- was this a syndicated recording before anyone ever knew about jesus and preserved for the 4th century madeup christian bible.

they were not jews, mary and joseph - and even so the heavens are not for them, jews a residue of salvation they even seek - nor is that their belief for their messiah.

could this be a case of - "cooking the books".

- hawk and the above are the example of the forgeries and fallacies true religious people recognize throughout the desert transgressions and to avoid that addiction when realistic heavenly renderings are sought - than comic book illiteracy.

Uh huh, and of course only you have the true history of the time.

 

[BreezeWood]

Uh huh, and of course only you have the true history of the time.

passed down through the centuries - not syndicated recordings by the ap ...

 

[Cougarbear]

The above post is an example of LDS humbleness? (Again, I'm grinning.)

It’s an example of humility defending the kingdom of God including defending the true oracles of God, the prophets and apostles. The apostasy was and still is real. Interpreting without the Holy Ghost isn’t God’s factual truth. Your scholars did their bias best.

 

[Meriweather]

No but can you show me a verse where it says that Mary changed Jesus' diaper? Honestly, these petty arguments are just silly.

I am not arguing. I'm merely presenting what the Gospel writers said and what early Christians said/believed. As I said at the beginning, it is not me you are arguing with, but early Christians and the authors of the New Testament. I could not care less if it is important to you that Mary sinned, so go for it. I'm merely pointing out that scripture and early Christians saw it differently.

 

[hadit]

No. This is not what is happening. You are the one throwing around baseless accusations, saying I am giving Mary worship and divine status. Catholics believe Mary is human, she is not divine. So stop with that deceit. The only parts Mary played in salvation was her obedience to God and that she was the mother of Jesus, carrying him in her womb. Think about it. I have a daughter in the military. Does this elevate me to General, and do people salute me as General, since I gave birth to her?

1. Read what I actually wrote, not what your bias makes you THINK I wrote. I said SOME do, I did not say YOU do.
2. I didn't make up those terms.

 

[hadit]

She had a savior. Why doesn't this sink in with you?

Why did she need one?

 

[hadit]

Other than advocate (which includes all saints) none of this is Catholic teaching. So, what's your point?

That it is usurping the role that Jesus and the Holy Spirit have in advocating for us.

 

[hadit]

Why would she sin if she were filled with the grace of God?

Or perhaps you disagree with Paul and the other Apostles that we are saved by God's grace? Perhaps you eschew the whole idea of God's saving grace? Or is your position that God's grace saves everyone but Mary, the mother of His son?

My question to you is, why would she need to be saved by grace if she had never sinned? You still haven't addressed that. You seem to want it both ways, "Oh, yes, Mary never sinned, she was perfection her entire life. But she also needed a savior to save her". Save her from what?

 

[hadit]

I am not declaring any of the above three sinners. Can you show me the verse where an angel said Joseph, James, or John the Baptist were full of grace?

What is your source that says "full of grace" = sinless? I'd like to see it.

 

[Meriweather]

1. Read what I actually wrote, not what your bias makes you THINK I wrote. I said SOME do, I did not say YOU do.
2. I didn't make up those terms.

Believe it or not, I saw that. My point is that can anyone know, or therefore discuss, all the vagueness of 'some'? 'Some' is thrown out when one cannot specify. If you wish to name a denomination or a person that actually teaches what you are accusing, then be specific. Otherwise, you are speaking of a possibility that has as much substance as mist in the wind or a wave upon the sand. You use that "some" quite often. It doesn't fly and is no more than an opinion what that elusive "some" may be opining. State the teaching. Stop trying to use the unspecified "some" as an unanswerable point. I'll change it to me every time as you are discussing this with me.

 

[Meriweather]

Why did she need one?

Mary needed protection from original sin, from the human inclination to sin. That protection could only come from God and the grace only He can bestow.

 

[Meriweather]

That it is usurping the role that Jesus and the Holy Spirit have in advocating for us.

Anyone can be an advocate of another, and that includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The higher, more powerful role of Jesus and the Holy Spirit is mediator.

 

[Meriweather]

My question to you is, why would she need to be saved by grace if she had never sinned? You still haven't addressed that. You seem to want it both ways, "Oh, yes, Mary never sinned, she was perfection her entire life. But she also needed a savior to save her". Save her from what?

It's grace that saved her from sinning. I'm puzzled that this is so difficult to understand. There is a saying, "But for the grace of God, there go I." Are you familiar with that? I can imagine Mary thinking that as she observed the world around her. There, but for the grace of God, go I.

 

[Meriweather]

What is your source that says "full of grace" = sinless? I'd like to see it.

See Luke's gospel.

 

[hadit]

Mary needed protection from original sin, from the human inclination to sin. That protection could only come from God and the grace only He can bestow.

Then He would be "Protector", not "Savior". I'm sorry, but "savior" denotes pulling one out of a place they are already in, not keeping them out of it.

 

[hadit]

See Luke's gospel.

It's pretty big, can you be more precise?

 

[hadit]

It's grace that saved her from sinning. I'm puzzled that this is so difficult to understand. There is a saying, "But for the grace of God, there go I." Are you familiar with that? I can imagine Mary thinking that as she observed the world around her. There, but for the grace of God, go I.

The problem I have with that is the Scriptures don't add the pieces you add. They don't say, "saved from sinning". Everywhere it talks about God saving someone, it's from sin they are already in.