Mandatory Irresponsibility is Fundamental to our Success

[DGS49]

The most disturbing fact about the American economy is that if Americans all decided to conduct their economic lives rationally - buy only what we NEED, and save the rest or pay down debt - the economy would immediately implode.

Restaurants would all go under, luxury cars would cease to exist, beer, liquor, and wine sales would end. You never NEED a bottle or a glass of wine, and forget about all those thousands of new wineries people love to visit; a total waste of money. Fitness clubs? What for? Go for a walk and do some calisthenics, you lazy bastard. Toy sales would virtually stop, high-end home sales would come to a standstill. Starbucks? Forget about it.

What about colleges and universities? For at least 75% of the students, they are wasting their time and money, and should drop out immediately and go get a job. But of course, there are no jobs, which is why many of them are there in the first place. How many colleges would survive, based on a rational estimate of the value of their product? Not too many, I suspect.

Get the picture? The examples of wasteful spending by individuals and households are endless.

But the health of our economy DEPENDS on three hundred million individuals acting irrationally and pissing away not only all of their money, but borrowing more and more to fund the continuous wasteful spending, every single day. If we stop...

Government economists fret about high credit card debt, massive student debt, and the lack of personal savings - mainly for retirement - but they can't push too hard on individual fiscal responsibility, because if we all acted reasonably, the economy would crash. As would essentially all of our governments, at every level.

Don't tell anyone.

 

[BlackSand]

Prosperity is not irresponsible in and of itself ...

I mean I understand your point ... But if our lives were reduced to basic needs ... Then our simple existence would be a matter of question.
Fireants protect, preserve, and account for their basic needs ... I have no use for them, they piss me off, so they will die.

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[mdk]

You can be reasonable with your money and still live a luxurious lifestyle. Reasonable and luxurious are pretty subjective terms, though.

 

[BlackSand]

You can be reasonable with your money and still live a luxurious lifestyle. Reasonable and luxurious are pretty subjective terms, though.

I think debt is a large determining factor.

If a person cannot maintain their lifestyle ... Without accumulating unreasonable debt ... That is irresponsible.
But ... This is America ... And it's obvious who is setting the example as far as personal responsibility and reasonable debt are concerned ...

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[mdk]

You can be reasonable with your money and still live a luxurious lifestyle. Reasonable and luxurious are pretty subjective terms, though.

I think debt is a large determining factor.

If a person cannot maintain their lifestyle ... Without accumulating unreasonable debt ... That is irresponsible.
But ... This is America ... And it's obvious who is setting the example as far as personal responsibility and reasonable debt are concerned ...

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I am humble enough to admit that it is me setting this example.

 

[BlackSand]

I am humble enough to admit that it is me setting this example.

To the contrary ... I think the government in general sets a more influential example ... Sorry sweetie ...

Of course predatory lending that focuses on short-term results without proper caution towards long-term consequences ...
Also plays a substantial part in the process and any subsequent collapse.

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[mdk]

I am humble enough to admit that it is me setting this example.

To the contrary ... I think the government in general sets a more influential example ... Sorry sweetie ...

Of course predatory lending that focuses on short-term results without proper caution towards long-term consequences ...
Also plays a substantial part in the process and any subsequent collapse.

.

What madness would compel someone to look to government as example on how to live their lives?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

The most disturbing fact about the American economy is that if Americans all decided to conduct their economic lives rationally - buy only what we NEED, and save the rest or pay down debt - the economy would immediately implode.

Restaurants would all go under, luxury cars would cease to exist, beer, liquor, and wine sales would end. You never NEED a bottle or a glass of wine, and forget about all those thousands of new wineries people love to visit; a total waste of money. Fitness clubs? What for? Go for a walk and do some calisthenics, you lazy bastard. Toy sales would virtually stop, high-end home sales would come to a standstill. Starbucks? Forget about it.

What about colleges and universities? For at least 75% of the students, they are wasting their time and money, and should drop out immediately and go get a job. But of course, there are no jobs, which is why many of them are there in the first place. How many colleges would survive, based on a rational estimate of the value of their product? Not too many, I suspect.

Get the picture? The examples of wasteful spending by individuals and households are endless.

But the health of our economy DEPENDS on three hundred million individuals acting irrationally and pissing away not only all of their money, but borrowing more and more to fund the continuous wasteful spending, every single day. If we stop...

Government economists fret about high credit card debt, massive student debt, and the lack of personal savings - mainly for retirement - but they can't push too hard on individual fiscal responsibility, because if we all acted reasonably, the economy would crash. As would essentially all of our governments, at every level.

Don't tell anyone.

The most disturbing fact about the American economy is that if Americans all decided to conduct their economic lives rationally - buy only what we NEED,

If the government didn't TAKE from the working class to give to the liberal schmucks who don't work, we would be able to conduct our economic lives better, because we would have more to buy items that weren't NEEDED, like what happened during the 8 years of economic malaise under Obama's tax and spend policies. Even when his admin took more taxes from US , the poor stayed poor, the rich got much richer under Obama and the most ever in poverty occurred since the War on Poverty started. Want to really stimulate the economy, get rid of the War on Poverty, take the trillion dollars a year and put it to the National Debt and in 21 years, no more debt, more people working because they wont get paid to sit on their liberal ass, and even more taxes would come in, thus letting the government lower the taxes on ALL working people. win, win.

War on poverty cost
The War on Poverty has cost $22 trillion -- three times more than what the government has spent on all wars in American history. Federal and state governments spend $1 trillion in taxpayer dollars on America's 80 means-tested welfare programs annually.
The War on Poverty Has Cost $22 Trillion
ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?article_id=25288

 

[BlackSand]

What madness would compel someone to look to government as example on how to live their lives?

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Civilization and Society in General

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[DGS49]

I'm not talking about debt; I'm talking about excessive spending, from the minute (Starbuck's coffee) to the grotesque (McMansions). The U.S. economy largely depends on peoples' willingness to purchase things they don't NEED, and to OVERPAY for many things that they do need.

And I will posit that most of this spending is by people can more or less afford it. They aren't foregoing food or shelter in order to purchase luxuries. I have three cars and a motorcycle in a household with two drivers. We can afford it, but it's wasteful.

For example, I took a tour of the New York and Ontario "wine country" last Fall. Mile after mile of grape vineyards and wineries. And NOT A SINGLE GLASS of that wine is needed by any human; every single dollar spent on wine is a discretionary purchase, and nothing but a personal indulgence. And that's not even mentioning the grotesque over-pricing of wine by restaurants, where it costs (typically) $7.50 for three ounces of wine, a quart of which is purchased by the restaurant for $8.

But the "wine industry" employs hundreds of thousands in this country.

How many people work in the "hospitality" industry? And the vast majority of that spending is discretionary. Cruise lines. Amusement parks, Bars, the list goes on and on.

If people started spending wisely with the intention of paying down debt and saving their money (let's say faith in Social Security tanks), the whole economy would implode.

 

[BlackSand]

I'm not talking about debt; I'm talking about excessive spending, from the minute (Starbuck's coffee) to the grotesque (McMansions). The U.S. economy largely depends on peoples' willingness to purchase things they don't NEED, and to OVERPAY for many things that they do need.

And I will posit that most of this spending is by people can more or less afford it. They aren't foregoing food or shelter in order to purchase luxuries. I have three cars and a motorcycle in a household with two drivers. We can afford it, but it's wasteful.

For example, I took a tour of the New York and Ontario "wine country" last Fall. Mile after mile of grape vineyards and wineries. And NOT A SINGLE GLASS of that wine is needed by any human; every single dollar spent on wine is a discretionary purchase, and nothing but a personal indulgence. And that's not even mentioning the grotesque over-pricing of wine by restaurants, where it costs (typically) $7.50 for three ounces of wine, a quart of which is purchased by the restaurant for $8.

But the "wine industry" employs hundreds of thousands in this country.

How many people work in the "hospitality" industry? And the vast majority of that spending is discretionary. Cruise lines. Amusement parks, Bars, the list goes on and on.

If people started spending wisely with the intention of paying down debt and saving their money (let's say faith in Social Security tanks), the whole economy would implode.

Uh, Yeah ... And ... Is this an epiphany for you ...
Prosperity would not exist ... And the only things we would have money for ... Or could possibly buy with whatever little money we had ... Would be basic needs.

If you want to spend yourself wisely into poverty ... You go right ahead.
If you don't spend money, someone doesn't get money ... And if someone doesn't get money, they don't have money to spend or save.

Problems occur around debt ... Because then you spend money servicing the debt instead of spending it on the economy or saving it.
That is one of the ways the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

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[DGS49]

I'm not sure I get your point.

There is good debt and bad debt. It makes no sense to save up to purchase a home, because that home will normally be increasing in value as fast as you accumulate money. Conversely, it makes no sense to borrow money to pay for groceries.

 

[BlackSand]

I'm not sure I get your point.

There is good debt and bad debt. It makes no sense to save up to purchase a home, because that home will normally be increasing in value as fast as you accumulate money. Conversely, it makes no sense to borrow money to pay for groceries.

Anytime you have debt ... You are required to service the debt.
You can increase equity in buying a home ... But you still have to service the debt.

To your example of buying a house and equity ...
If you buy a house for $50,000 at 5% APR ... What is your earned equity after you service the interest on the debt ... If your house is worth $75,000 in 30 years?


But that's not what you were talking about ... You were talking about what would happen if people didn't buy things that aren't a basic need.
If you don't buy things that are beyond your basic needs ... We won't benefit from prosperity.

You don't need a computer ... And if you don't buy a computer ... None of the people who benefit from buying your computer will benefit.
If they don't benefit ... Then they are unable to afford what they need.


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