Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

Tom Paine 1949

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What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?


PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher.

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO
 

White 6

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What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?


PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher.

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO
I'll believe it when I see it, but yes they should.
 

shockedcanadian

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What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?


PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher.

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO
I tend to agree with him. I think Europe, like many allied nations, don't have the same trust or faith in the U.S to deal with China and other global threats.

For one, America has pulled more than their weight and other nations have to. Second, when Trump is president, Europe and the world know China will be reigned in, when he isn't in power, citizens have to feel frightened. Europe isn't saying it, but we all know, it's the usual threats to their security, China and Russia. Especially China of late, who have surpassed the military might of any European power.

What if China and USA joined forces and interests at the expense of the rest of the world? It might have sounded insane to think this 15 years ago, but look at the Big Tech, NBA-corporate kneelers. There is an impulse to give in to China, so, what if these are the top advisers of presidents?

I just don't see many leaders past Trump that understand what's at stake. Rubio understands, Nikki Haley. Who knows how they would act if president though, who knows who they owe their campaign funding to?

This is what made Trump, although tough for them to deal with, they at least knew, when push came to shove, he didn't owe anyone but American Interests.

So yes, Europe should have had a military long ago. Especially as they see Chinas rise and military might expanding.
 

Viktor

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Go for it if Europe wants to take the lead in handling it's own security I have no problem with that. We have heard more than a few times America should not be the worlds policemen so if other nations want to handle their own security cool.
AMEN. I'm one of those people who wants to take the United States out of the United Nations.
We have enough problems of our own and we already rescued Europe twice in the 20th century. The UN is nothing but a useless propaganda vehicle that our enemies use against us.
I have thought that we could do without NATO now that the Soviet Union is gone. NATO was made for one purpose-protect the West against Soviet expansion. The Soviets are gone.
 

cnm

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Go for it if Europe wants to take the lead in handling it's own security I have no problem with that. We have heard more than a few times America should not be the worlds policemen so if other nations want to handle their own security cool.
Do you really think the US is securing France, for example?
 

cnm

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Europe isn't saying it, but we all know, it's the usual threats to their security, China and Russia. Especially China of late, who have surpassed the military might of any European power.
Yeah yeah. I can see the first wave of junks sailing up the Seine right now.
 

cnm

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That's a laugh, they don't even want to pay their NATO dues. But they are going to invest multi-billions of dollars to stand up a defense industry and their own army? :puhleeze:
Ffs. Their 'NATO dues' are about their own armies and defence industries.
 

Mac-7

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What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?


PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher.

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO
I feel the beginnings of a 10-nation confederacy with headquarters in Rome
 

theHawk

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What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?


PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher.

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO
Sounds like the globalists in Europe want to cash in on that War profiteering that the Bush/Clinton/Hussein legacy built.
 

ESay

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NATO is an outdated structure and cant fulfill its goal. Btw, what goal does it have, somebody knows? Let Western Europe take care for themselves.

What is more useful is some copy of NATO comprised of East European states. As a natural barrier between the rest of Europe and Russia.

But then again, this possible military union is a point of discussion because it is highly unlikely that these countries would meet their defence costs.

It will be interesting to see, how France and Germany will resolve the dispute between Turkey and Greece, without Anerican involvement.
 

verker

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The German army plan grow size from current 62,000+ to 78,000+ ...

It's planned a trip to latest 2024 ...
 

cnm

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What is more useful is some copy of NATO comprised of East European states. As a natural barrier between the rest of Europe and Russia.
You mean as the failure of US policy to ram NATO up against Russia's borders becomes unavoidably apparent?
 

ESay

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What is more useful is some copy of NATO comprised of East European states. As a natural barrier between the rest of Europe and Russia.
You mean as the failure of US policy to ram NATO up against Russia's borders becomes unavoidably apparent?
I mean that a military organization should have a common goal (or, more strictly speaking, a common enemy). Does NATO have one? If this organization is to deter Russia (the most obvious
goal), then Western Europe doesn't fit in it. Those countries are keen on developing trade and energy cooperation with Russia, and dont see it as enemy anymore. So, let them go out and let them deal with their defence, with the Turks in particular.
 

Shelzin

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I agree... They should have their own standing military. Just as the US should have it's own standing voting system.
Every country in Europe already has its own army.
That basically could fight another county in Europe... And that's about it.
 

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