Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

2aguy

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What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?


PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher.

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO
Sadly he is correct. We can no longer be trusted. The tRump *administration* has destroyed our credibility. A hundred years of trust and cooperation thrown out by one rabid wannabe dictator.

Boy, you really are stupid. Trump was the only one Europe could trust, since the clintons and the democrats sold out to china and obama let Russia do whatever they hell they wanted...

How can you be so blind and stupid to actual reality?
 

zaangalewa

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...Actually, they have guys who wear uniforms.....they aren't even close to a real military.
So the USA has guys, who don't wear uniforms, because they are close to real military?
 
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Crepitus

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What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?


PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher.

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO
Sadly he is correct. We can no longer be trusted. The tRump *administration* has destroyed our credibility. A hundred years of trust and cooperation thrown out by one rabid wannabe dictator.

Boy, you really are stupid. Trump was the only one Europe could trust, since the clintons and the democrats sold out to china and obama let Russia do whatever they hell they wanted...

How can you be so blind and stupid to actual reality?
Who sold you that line of bullshit and how many drugs did you have to take to believe it?
 

zaangalewa

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Bleipriester

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...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?
I would applaud you if I wouldn´t kill you before.
Nazi - whatever you like to say to me: Say it to god! Do what he says to you! That's your only chance.
lol, enabler of murderers and rapists.
 

2aguy

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What do folks think about European efforts to forge an identity and a “great power” role independent of the U.S.? The articles below discuss continuing French and German discussions (and disagreements) about the need for a separate “EU Army” distinct from NATO, and efforts to build up a separate EU arms industry. Trump’s efforts to get Europe to pay more “for defending itself,” and trade disputes with Europe under his administration, have paradoxically led to talk of developing a more sovereign role in the world. Of course Europe has many internal conflicts. Personally I think Brexit will ultimately strengthen French-German-led European unity.

Has the EU’s “soft power” or independent thinking in trade or its sense of distinctness grown in the last 4 years — despite Brexit, Covid-19 and immigration problems? Will a Biden presidency repair trans-Atlantic unity or has permanent damage occurred? Is this all a fake effort of Macron (and Angela Merkel) to boost their popularity at home? Do NATO & the CIA and financial ties doom Europe to remain tied as a caboose to the American train? Are there really still strong common interests that bind Europe to the U.S. — or will Europe in future find it has more interests in separately negotiating with Russia and China?


PARIS (Reuters) - Europe still needs its own independent and sovereign defence strategy, even if it is dealing with a new U.S. government which may result in friendlier ties, French President Emmanuel Macron told the “Revue Grand Continent” publication.

In an interview with the publication, Macron rebuffed comments from German Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer to Politico on Nov. 2, in which the German minister said Europe would have to remain dependent on U.S. military protection for the near future.

“I am in complete disagreement with the opinion article published in Politico by the German defence minister,” said Macron, adding he believed German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared his position on this issue.

“The United States will only respect us as allies if we are serious about our own position, and if we have our own sovereignty regarding our defence,” said Macron.

“We need to continue to build up our own autonomy, just as the United States does for itself, and just as China does for itself,” added Macron.

Macron spoke to U.S. President-elect Joe Biden on Nov 10, and told Biden he was ready to work with him on issues such as the climate, health, and the fight against terrorism.

Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new U.S. government

The idea of a “European Army” is not new. This article from 2 years ago shows that it grew as German & French hostility to and from Donald Trump rose higher.

Merkel joins Macron in calling for EU army to complement NATO
Sadly he is correct. We can no longer be trusted. The tRump *administration* has destroyed our credibility. A hundred years of trust and cooperation thrown out by one rabid wannabe dictator.

Boy, you really are stupid. Trump was the only one Europe could trust, since the clintons and the democrats sold out to china and obama let Russia do whatever they hell they wanted...

How can you be so blind and stupid to actual reality?
Who sold you that line of bullshit and how many drugs did you have to take to believe it?

obama refused to give aid to Ukraine, and the clintons and the democrat party sold out to the Chinese in the 1990s....I watched it in real time a Chinese government bag men brought hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash to the White House........and the clintons gave them access to our high tech weapon systems...
 

xyz

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The US is not the pillar of stability it once was. Unfortunately, I think the prospects of even a civil war in the US within the next two decades is not out of the question. I wish it was though.
 

zaangalewa

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...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?
I would applaud you if I wouldn´t kill you before.
Nazi - whatever you like to say to me: Say it to god! Do what he says to you! That's your only chance.
lol, enabler of murderers and rapists.
I am not god - otherwise you could be dead now, Nazi. Not sure whether you are alive at all, living undead.
 

zaangalewa

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...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?
hahahahhah--DUH!!! they formed the EU to devalue the US dollar....
Do you have any idea what you try to speak about? The USA devalues the US-dollar - this makes your debts cheaper. You get a billion and pay back [a little more than] a billion - but the spending power is different. You get more spending power than you pay back - what's somehow a kind of sophisticated form of slavery.
 
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Bleipriester

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...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?
I would applaud you if I wouldn´t kill you before.
Nazi - whatever you like to say to me: Say it to god! Do what he says to you! That's your only chance.
lol, enabler of murderers and rapists.
I am not god - otherwise you could be dead now, Nazi. Not sure whether you are alive at all, living undead.
You are not god, right. Just a little pesky do-gooder.
 

zaangalewa

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...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?
I would applaud you if I wouldn´t kill you before.
Nazi - whatever you like to say to me: Say it to god! Do what he says to you! That's your only chance.
lol, enabler of murderers and rapists.
I am not god - otherwise you could be dead now, Nazi. Not sure whether you are alive at all, living undead.
You are not god, right.
What for heavens sake did you not understand?

Just a little pesky do-gooder.
And you are a Nazi and who is today a Nazi is in my eyes much more dangerous than the most Nazis under Hitler had been, who often did not know on their own what was going on. You just simple have to open your eyes and inform yourselve - and even to do this you are much to lazy. To kill others with machine guns is much more easy, isn't it?
 
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zaangalewa

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... obama refused to give aid to Ukraine
What's wrong and the problem "Ukraine" was deascalatable - and hopefully still is deascalatable. How the Krim became a part of the Ukraine had been indeed a very stange action of the leading Soviet Nikita Khrushchev on economic reasons. And it is totally clear - always was clear - that Russia will not give up the home harbor of their black sea fleet. The problem was a problem for mosquitos and was artificially made to a problem for elephants. (If you miss the word "deascalatable" in your language: I just simple introduced it now.)

 
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Bleipriester

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...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?
I would applaud you if I wouldn´t kill you before.
Nazi - whatever you like to say to me: Say it to god! Do what he says to you! That's your only chance.
lol, enabler of murderers and rapists.
I am not god - otherwise you could be dead now, Nazi. Not sure whether you are alive at all, living undead.
You are not god, right.
What for heavens sake did you not understand?

Just a little pesky do-gooder.
And you are a Nazi and who is today a Nazi is in my eyes much more dangerous than the most Nazis under Hitler were, who often did know on their own what was going on. You just simple have to open your eyes and inform yourselve - and even to do this you are much to lazy. To kill others with machine guns is much more easy, isn't it?
You are quick in your judgement and declared your own morals superior to those of the others which are Nazis. This is why you will be judged in your own religion. And you never helped any poor migrant who sits in his asylum housing surrounded by criminals that can never show up in their countries again.
 

ESay

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... obama refused to give aid to Ukraine
What's wrong and the problem "Ukraine" was deascalatable - and hopefully still is deascalatable. How the Krim became a part of the Ukraine had been indeed a very stange action of the leading Soviet Nikita Khrushchev on economic reasons. And it is totally clear - always was clear - that Russia will not give up the home harbor of their black sea fleet. The problem was a problem for mosquitos and was artificially made to a problem for elephants. (If you miss the word "deascalatable" in your language: I just simple introduced it now.)

It shows you know nothing about Ukraine and why all the things happened in the first place. Basically, it was not about Crimea at all.
 

zaangalewa

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...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?
I would applaud you if I wouldn´t kill you before.
Nazi - whatever you like to say to me: Say it to god! Do what he says to you! That's your only chance.
lol, enabler of murderers and rapists.
I am not god - otherwise you could be dead now, Nazi. Not sure whether you are alive at all, living undead.
You are not god, right.
What for heavens sake did you not understand?

Just a little pesky do-gooder.
And you are a Nazi and who is today a Nazi is in my eyes much more dangerous than the most Nazis under Hitler were, who often did know on their own what was going on. You just simple have to open your eyes and inform yourselve - and even to do this you are much to lazy. To kill others with machine guns is much more easy, isn't it?
You are quick in your judgement and declared your own morals superior to those of the others which are Nazis. This is why you will be judged in your own religion. And you never helped any poor migrant who sits in his asylum housing surrounded by criminals that can never show up in their countries again.
Should it not be "had helped" instead to use only "helped" in this case?

 

zaangalewa

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... obama refused to give aid to Ukraine
What's wrong and the problem "Ukraine" was deascalatable - and hopefully still is deascalatable. How the Krim became a part of the Ukraine had been indeed a very stange action of the leading Soviet Nikita Khrushchev on economic reasons. And it is totally clear - always was clear - that Russia will not give up the home harbor of their black sea fleet. The problem was a problem for mosquitos and was artificially made to a problem for elephants. (If you miss the word "deascalatable" in your language: I just simple introduced it now.)

It shows you know nothing about Ukraine and why all the things happened in the first place. Basically, it was not about Crimea at all.
And about what was "it" - whatever "it" is in this context? The Slaws were born somewhere in this area in the 5th century. Both - as well Russians and Ukrainians - were called in Vienna about 200 years ago "Ruthenen" (an analogy in the English language would be "Ruthens" - "u" spoken like the "U" in Ukraine). 60% of the vocabulary of the Russians and Ukrainians is the same. I guess they know how to speak with each other without interpreter.
 
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Bleipriester

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...those jackass Europeans formed the EU--monopolizing against the US.....so they can form their own defense/etc ...
What means "monopolizing against the USA"? To eat a breakfast in Paris and not to pay Amazon and Washington?
I would applaud you if I wouldn´t kill you before.
Nazi - whatever you like to say to me: Say it to god! Do what he says to you! That's your only chance.
lol, enabler of murderers and rapists.
I am not god - otherwise you could be dead now, Nazi. Not sure whether you are alive at all, living undead.
You are not god, right.
What for heavens sake did you not understand?

Just a little pesky do-gooder.
And you are a Nazi and who is today a Nazi is in my eyes much more dangerous than the most Nazis under Hitler were, who often did know on their own what was going on. You just simple have to open your eyes and inform yourselve - and even to do this you are much to lazy. To kill others with machine guns is much more easy, isn't it?
You are quick in your judgement and declared your own morals superior to those of the others which are Nazis. This is why you will be judged in your own religion. And you never helped any poor migrant who sits in his asylum housing surrounded by criminals that can never show up in their countries again.
Should it not be "had helped" instead to use only "helped" in this case?

Who knows what is appropriate in your special case.
 

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