Loving goodness of god's grace

[RodISHI]

The depth of your ignorance is stunning.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten me.

Given you continuous demonstration of close-mindedness and your penchant for accepting ignorance as the norm, I can think of no reason I should spend more than 10 seconds trying to show you something you're not the least bit interested in learning.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

"You can lead a horse to water, but he's still a dumb fucking animal."

Some horses just prefer to snort in the water for awhile checking it out.

I got a mare that does that - she also likes to splash anybody within range. SHE thinks it's funny --- I do, too -- as long as it's someone else.

My horses used to use their nose's to check the stream depth or find the Water Cress that they loved to eat.

 

[ding]

Here's how you know God is good. Man prefers good over evil and when he violates it, rather than abandon it, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. This wisdom is captured in Genesis, I have no doubt that failed to understand this message when you read it.

The bottom line is that goodness is the native state.

I must admit, Ding, it's refreshing to see a believer assert that man "prefers good over evil." It's been my experience that most (at least most Christians) seem to believe -- as the Bible insists -- that humans are inherently sinful (and most translate that to humans are inherently evil). That's promising.

As for the "wisdom" of Genesis, I've found it to be one of the most incompetent books of the Bible (indeed, I often recommend its objective examination to believers to help convince them of the Bible's (and Christianity's) incoherence!).

That said, I can't recall any particular context within it that would make moral sense of the multitude of biblical evils I listed above. I'm afraid you'll have to be more specific.

Why did Adam and Eve hide when they heard God coming? Because they knew they had done wrong.

And what did they say to God when He asked them if they ate the apple?

Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me.

Eve, did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.

You probably don't realize the message Christ was teaching either. It is related to this concept as well. Tremendous wisdom is in the Bible for those who seek it. Wisdom is not given to just any jack-a-nape.

 

[Spare_change]

I have neither the time, nor the inclination, to off you anything.

I am content that your soul is destined for eternal damnation, and mine isn't.

If you're content with the notion of another human being (who you've never even met) burning in Hell for all eternity, I suppose that says everything about your moral character that any of us need to know, doesn't it?

Frankly, I'm not only content, I'm massively in favor of it.

 

[ding]

I have neither the time, nor the inclination, to off you anything.

I am content that your soul is destined for eternal damnation, and mine isn't.

If you're content with the notion of another human being (who you've never even met) burning in Hell for all eternity, I suppose that says everything about your moral character that any of us need to know, doesn't it?

Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes in this world?

 

[yiostheoy]

Paladin: That's a fair point, but with that in mind how, then, are we to know what -- if ANYTHING -- is a genuine part of the Bible? Only those that cast Yahweh in a positive light?

.
when those people that are the legacy of 4th century christianity, their history of repression and persecution of free Spirited individuals are brought to heal the true path from the 1st century can be reforged and set straight again.

The 4th Century A.D. is when the Bishops of the Early Church morphed it into fiefdoms with themselves as demigods.
This then culminated in a demigod Pope at Rome followed by several split-offs by first the Eastern Orthodox, then King Henry 8th, and finally Martin Luther.

.

The 4th Century A.D. is when ...

the compilation of the christian bible was put into effect the late 4th century AD 397 ... choosing what they included.

Had to be earlier than that because Eusebius was involved in the compilation and he registered marked disagreement with Hebrews and with Revelation as both being fraudulent.

 

[yiostheoy]

Without understanding being given by the holy spirit

If what the church teaches is the holy spirit (an invisible ghost) has already come at pentecost, how is it that this holy spirit has not done even one single thing that Jesus said the holy spirit would be sent by God to do when he came?

John 16:8-15

No ghost has ever shown where wrong and right and judgment lie, no ghost has ever convinced anyone about sin, righteousness, or judgment, no ghost has ever led anyone to all of the truth, no ghost has ever told you the things that are coming, and, no ghost has ever glorified Jesus by drawing from what he taught, revealing it openly, proving to the world and convincing the Jews that Jesus was right.

(Not to mention the fact that it is a violation of divine law to seek the guidance of a ghost.)

How do you resolve this?

Hmm ... not for you huh?

Maybe then you are just hopelessly lost and the Holy Spirit cannot reach you?

Or maybe you are NOT one of the "Elect" mentioned by St. Paul and therefore God(s) do not care about you?

Remember They each have a different mission:

- God The Father (his name/title translated out of Greek) fathered and sent Jesus his Son;

- Jesus taught the message of salvation which was written down by Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Jude, James etc. (in that approximate order) and was crucified for the sins of the World so that he might have power to forgive sins;

- the Holy Spirit bears witness inside of listeners/readers of its truthfulness.

If you have never heard and felt these things then you are simply a lost soul. Sorry about that. C'est la vive.

 

[yiostheoy]

And what, pray tell, is the proper context to understand a being who commits planetary ecocide (including countless innocent human beings and ignorant animals) out of anger, commands genocide of entire cultures (making especially certain not to miss any babies or fetuses in the womb), celebrates the dashing of infants' heads against rocks, threatens to starve people to the point where they'll be forced to eat their children, and dooms billions to an eternity of torment in Hell, simply because they were born into the wrong faith?

Your answer may be if you can grasp the understanding that the Bible is talking about what is in you. That is the basic DNA of the spirit that is instilled into you as a 'red earth human' aka Adam.

.

Your answer may be if you can grasp the understanding that the Bible is talking about what is in you. That is the basic DNA of the spirit that is instilled into you as a 'red earth human' aka Adam.

that might have been true if the bible had not been violated in the 4th century to represent a prescribed agenda disguised as a religion - oddly enough the prescription to have the same history as the commentary you are trying to dissuade.

it is you who can not grasp the understanding of what needs to be accomplished to rectify the error.

Are you trying to say that the Bible should be reprinted to satisfy your understanding of it?

.

Are you trying to say that the Bible should be reprinted to satisfy your understanding of it?

the 4th century bible from that time to the present has had a history of corruption, repression persecution etc., that book is a political agenda disguised in the 4th century as a religion and is the reason for the hundreds of denominations that reject the form it represents. yes, its flaws are obvious and many, save the burning souls that wrote it and correct their errors.

Yup that's how Lucifer (his Latin name given to him by St. Gerome) works.

 

[yiostheoy]

Different faith communities, denominations and churches teach various ways about the grace of God. Some of the teachings are Biblical and some quite unbiblical. Grace of God is one of the most essential teachings of the Bible and therefore it is important to understand what the Bible teaches about the grace of God. I will try to go through what the Bible says about the grace of God. My article does not cover everything about God's grace, but deals with it from a few important angles.

More info: God's grace and mercy loving goodness

Are you getting anything out of this dialogue so far PetriFB ?

 

[hobelim]

"Its not that I have a lack of faith, I am asking how it is possible that the spirit of truth, if you object to the word ghost, has not done even one single thing that Jesus said God would send the holy spirit to do if he already has come?"
It is not my personal objection to using the word holy ghost. Different cultures have different words to explain what a spirit is. You covered it nicely describing "disembodied spirits" as to where the problem may lie for some who are confused. The holy spirit is not some disembodied creature it is a little piece of heavenly treasure that is installed from the manufacture.

Did you read John 16:8-15? Read it again and tell me if Jesus is describing God sending another human being and what he would be sent by God to do, or if Jesus describing what an invisible spirit would be sent by God to do?

"Jesus mentions specific things that the spirit of truth would do that have not been done so how do you explain that fact with the claim that he has already come a very long time ago?"
You are speaking corporately for the whole when it has to be put on an individual basis. Not all are restored at that same point in time.

No, Jesus clearly says that the the Jews would be convinced that Jesus was right when the spirit of truth came. He is predicting his teaching being vindicated and accepted by the entire nation of Israel after being convinced that Jesus was right, not after 2000 or 10000 years depending where they each are at individually.

Lets face it, if Christians are going to continue to insist that Jesus was God or that Jesus claimed to be God the Jewish people as a whole will never be convinced that Jesus was right about anything and will probably continue to think that you have all been placed under a delusion and are lost and gone forever.

Your claims about Jesus being God in the flesh that you profess to be inspired by the holy spirit will only continue to convince the Jewish people that Jesus was insane and they were always right to reject his teaching out of hand.

The exact opposite of what Jesus said that the Spirit of truth would be sent by God to do...

 

[yiostheoy]

"Its not that I have a lack of faith, I am asking how it is possible that the spirit of truth, if you object to the word ghost, has not done even one single thing that Jesus said God would send the holy spirit to do if he already has come?"
It is not my personal objection to using the word holy ghost. Different cultures have different words to explain what a spirit is. You covered it nicely describing "disembodied spirits" as to where the problem may lie for some who are confused. The holy spirit is not some disembodied creature it is a little piece of heavenly treasure that is installed from the manufacture.

Did you read John 16:8-15? Read it again and tell me if Jesus is describing God sending another human being and what he would be sent by God to do, or if Jesus describing what an invisible spirit would be sent by God to do?

"Jesus mentions specific things that the spirit of truth would do that have not been done so how do you explain that fact with the claim that he has already come a very long time ago?"
You are speaking corporately for the whole when it has to be put on an individual basis. Not all are restored at that same point in time.

No, Jesus clearly says that the the Jews would be convinced that Jesus was right when the spirit of truth came. He is predicting his teaching being vindicated and accepted by the entire nation of Israel after being convinced that Jesus was right, not after 2000 or 10000 years depending where they each are at individually.

Lets face it, if Christians are going to continue to insist that Jesus was God or that Jesus claimed to be God the Jewish people will never be convinced that Jesus was right about anything and will probably continue to think that you have all been placed under a delusion and are lost and gone forever.

Your claims about Jesus that you profess to be inspired by the holy spirit will only continue to convince the Jewish people that Jesus was insane and they were always right to reject his teaching out of hand.

The exact opposite of what Jesus said that the spirit of truth would be sent by God to do...

Read it?

I have read all of it.

In 4 different languages.

 

[hobelim]

"Its not that I have a lack of faith, I am asking how it is possible that the spirit of truth, if you object to the word ghost, has not done even one single thing that Jesus said God would send the holy spirit to do if he already has come?"
It is not my personal objection to using the word holy ghost. Different cultures have different words to explain what a spirit is. You covered it nicely describing "disembodied spirits" as to where the problem may lie for some who are confused. The holy spirit is not some disembodied creature it is a little piece of heavenly treasure that is installed from the manufacture.

Did you read John 16:8-15? Read it again and tell me if Jesus is describing God sending another human being and what he would be sent by God to do, or if Jesus describing what an invisible spirit would be sent by God to do?

"Jesus mentions specific things that the spirit of truth would do that have not been done so how do you explain that fact with the claim that he has already come a very long time ago?"
You are speaking corporately for the whole when it has to be put on an individual basis. Not all are restored at that same point in time.

No, Jesus clearly says that the the Jews would be convinced that Jesus was right when the spirit of truth came. He is predicting his teaching being vindicated and accepted by the entire nation of Israel after being convinced that Jesus was right, not after 2000 or 10000 years depending where they each are at individually.

Lets face it, if Christians are going to continue to insist that Jesus was God or that Jesus claimed to be God the Jewish people will never be convinced that Jesus was right about anything and will probably continue to think that you have all been placed under a delusion and are lost and gone forever.

Your claims about Jesus that you profess to be inspired by the holy spirit will only continue to convince the Jewish people that Jesus was insane and they were always right to reject his teaching out of hand.

The exact opposite of what Jesus said that the spirit of truth would be sent by God to do...

Read it?

I have read all of it.

In 4 different languages.

If Jesus was the Jewish messiah is it even possible that he would tell people to defy the divine commands and await the teachings of a ghost?

Islam teaches that Mohammed was the fulfillment of John 16:8-15.

Obviously he didn't fulfill this prophecy any better than a ghost could.

 

[yiostheoy]

"Its not that I have a lack of faith, I am asking how it is possible that the spirit of truth, if you object to the word ghost, has not done even one single thing that Jesus said God would send the holy spirit to do if he already has come?"
It is not my personal objection to using the word holy ghost. Different cultures have different words to explain what a spirit is. You covered it nicely describing "disembodied spirits" as to where the problem may lie for some who are confused. The holy spirit is not some disembodied creature it is a little piece of heavenly treasure that is installed from the manufacture.

Did you read John 16:8-15? Read it again and tell me if Jesus is describing God sending another human being and what he would be sent by God to do, or if Jesus describing what an invisible spirit would be sent by God to do?

"Jesus mentions specific things that the spirit of truth would do that have not been done so how do you explain that fact with the claim that he has already come a very long time ago?"
You are speaking corporately for the whole when it has to be put on an individual basis. Not all are restored at that same point in time.

No, Jesus clearly says that the the Jews would be convinced that Jesus was right when the spirit of truth came. He is predicting his teaching being vindicated and accepted by the entire nation of Israel after being convinced that Jesus was right, not after 2000 or 10000 years depending where they each are at individually.

Lets face it, if Christians are going to continue to insist that Jesus was God or that Jesus claimed to be God the Jewish people will never be convinced that Jesus was right about anything and will probably continue to think that you have all been placed under a delusion and are lost and gone forever.

Your claims about Jesus that you profess to be inspired by the holy spirit will only continue to convince the Jewish people that Jesus was insane and they were always right to reject his teaching out of hand.

The exact opposite of what Jesus said that the spirit of truth would be sent by God to do...

Read it?

I have read all of it.

In 4 different languages.

If Jesus was the Jewish messiah is it even possible that he would tell people to defy the divine commands and await the teachings of a ghost?

Islam teaches that Mohammed was the fulfillment of John 16:8-15.

Obviously he didn't fulfill this prophecy either.

Islam is a huge plagiarism of Judaism and Christianity.

I am not sure who created Islam.

I have heard rumors that Muhammad never existed and it was Zoroastrian priests in Cairo that invented Islam and then spread it to the rest of Arabia and North Africa.

All that stuff happened centuries ago and therefore we have lost any ability to track it down to original sources.

So it all depends on what you want to believe.

I believe I will have another drink.

 

[hobelim]

"Its not that I have a lack of faith, I am asking how it is possible that the spirit of truth, if you object to the word ghost, has not done even one single thing that Jesus said God would send the holy spirit to do if he already has come?"
It is not my personal objection to using the word holy ghost. Different cultures have different words to explain what a spirit is. You covered it nicely describing "disembodied spirits" as to where the problem may lie for some who are confused. The holy spirit is not some disembodied creature it is a little piece of heavenly treasure that is installed from the manufacture.

Did you read John 16:8-15? Read it again and tell me if Jesus is describing God sending another human being and what he would be sent by God to do, or if Jesus describing what an invisible spirit would be sent by God to do?

"Jesus mentions specific things that the spirit of truth would do that have not been done so how do you explain that fact with the claim that he has already come a very long time ago?"
You are speaking corporately for the whole when it has to be put on an individual basis. Not all are restored at that same point in time.

No, Jesus clearly says that the the Jews would be convinced that Jesus was right when the spirit of truth came. He is predicting his teaching being vindicated and accepted by the entire nation of Israel after being convinced that Jesus was right, not after 2000 or 10000 years depending where they each are at individually.

Lets face it, if Christians are going to continue to insist that Jesus was God or that Jesus claimed to be God the Jewish people will never be convinced that Jesus was right about anything and will probably continue to think that you have all been placed under a delusion and are lost and gone forever.

Your claims about Jesus that you profess to be inspired by the holy spirit will only continue to convince the Jewish people that Jesus was insane and they were always right to reject his teaching out of hand.

The exact opposite of what Jesus said that the spirit of truth would be sent by God to do...

Read it?

I have read all of it.

In 4 different languages.

If Jesus was the Jewish messiah is it even possible that he would tell people to defy the divine commands and await the teachings of a ghost?

Islam teaches that Mohammed was the fulfillment of John 16:8-15.

Obviously he didn't fulfill this prophecy either.

Islam is a huge plagiarism of Judaism and Christianity.

I am not sure who created Islam.

I have heard rumors that Muhammad never existed and it was Zoroastrian priests in Cairo that invented Islam and then spread it to the rest of Arabia and North Africa.

All that stuff happened centuries ago and therefore we have lost any ability to track it down to original sources.

So it all depends on what you want to believe.

I believe I will have another drink.

 

[hobelim]

- Jesus taught the message of salvation which was written down by Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Jude, James etc. (in that approximate order) and was crucified for the sins of the World so that he might have power to forgive sins;

Jesus was forgiving sins long before he was crucified. He wasn't crucified for the sins of the world he was crucified because the world is sinful.

What is the message of salvation that Jesus taught if not a revelation from God about how to be freed from the burden of the law, which is the consequence for disobedience, by revealing the hidden teaching in the law that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of eternal life for all those who accept this teaching and do it, rendering the literal interpretation and application of the law according to the talmud, the traditions of men, obsolete.

1 John 3:4-10

 

[RodISHI]

"Its not that I have a lack of faith, I am asking how it is possible that the spirit of truth, if you object to the word ghost, has not done even one single thing that Jesus said God would send the holy spirit to do if he already has come?"
It is not my personal objection to using the word holy ghost. Different cultures have different words to explain what a spirit is. You covered it nicely describing "disembodied spirits" as to where the problem may lie for some who are confused. The holy spirit is not some disembodied creature it is a little piece of heavenly treasure that is installed from the manufacture.

Did you read John 16:8-15? Read it again and tell me if Jesus is describing God sending another human being and what he would be sent by God to do, or if Jesus describing what an invisible spirit would be sent by God to do?

"Jesus mentions specific things that the spirit of truth would do that have not been done so how do you explain that fact with the claim that he has already come a very long time ago?"
You are speaking corporately for the whole when it has to be put on an individual basis. Not all are restored at that same point in time.

No, Jesus clearly says that the the Jews would be convinced that Jesus was right when the spirit of truth came. He is predicting his teaching being vindicated and accepted by the entire nation of Israel after being convinced that Jesus was right, not after 2000 or 10000 years depending where they each are at individually.

Lets face it, if Christians are going to continue to insist that Jesus was God or that Jesus claimed to be God the Jewish people as a whole will never be convinced that Jesus was right about anything and will probably continue to think that you have all been placed under a delusion and are lost and gone forever.

Your claims about Jesus being God in the flesh that you profess to be inspired by the holy spirit will only continue to convince the Jewish people that Jesus was insane and they were always right to reject his teaching out of hand.

The exact opposite of what Jesus said that the Spirit of truth would be sent by God to do...

"Lets face it" you are missing things I have told you and you are the one who is lacking. The kingdom of heaven was installed by the manufacture.

I can tell you truthful things but can your carnal mind perceive them?

Or would you prefer to banter on about the religious affiliation of others?

Your precepts of "Jewish people" and those who are God's Jewish people that are called may not be one in the same.

You keep missing the point that the spirit God is not limited to only what you can now perceive.

 

[RodISHI]

hobelim

"Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."

Zerubbabel 'a seed planted in babylon (mixed confusion)'
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)

Below is a quote that states truth. One must first grasp understanding where the spirit of life dwells. What is it to be spiritually dead?

Life would need to be understood before death could be.

People tend to get confused when they do not understand that there is veil that separates the spiritual portion from the carnal human portions. One could think of it as borders of protection so the eternal soul does not die in sin nor give an avenue for the sinful carnal human can live forever.

Psalm 51:5, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Romans 5:12 says that sin entered the world through Adam, and death came through sin, because all sinned. As descendants of Adam, we received the sin nature passed down from our fathers. That makes us born in sin, with a natural inclination to do wrong.

Good scriptures if one takes time to process it through it thinking and walking in the spirit it should make perfect sense. Eve- life, more specifically that portion in the adam (that red earth human) is the source of all life when the Lord awakens the human. That portion that gives and calls the human for the human conscientiousness to be awakened or make it aware that it has an eternal soul with a mother to teach it to how to breathe. This portion of our conscience is there to teach the human how to spiritual breath to live to the spirit of God in it verses evil things that can cause death to the spirit of the Son in us. Those things which have been given life from that which was previously dead (dead meaning the carnally minded human that has been asleep in the dust of the earth in the garden of its own pleasures).
Genesis 3:20 (KJV)

Who are the spiritual fathers of sin when we are living to the carnal flesh? The Lord told Peter that his father was the devil when Peter was in denial.
John 8:44 (KJV)

A 'devil' is a working adversary. A devil or devils work against that which is born in us that is holy and righteous. Our own son of perdition is not always easy to overcome. If truth is denied by us these adversaries in us cause trials and tribulations until we learn, grow or get to those places in the spirit where we should be. That can take longer for some who continually beat the dead horse so to speak. People can easily fall into a place that they feel comfortable and get stuck there. This strife and tribulation can also be where self examination comes in and that also is a very difficult task at times.
Luke 9:42 (KJV)

If we learn live and walk in the spirit the law is fulfilled in us when we have Jehovah's salvation with us aka Jesus the word that was in the beginning with God.
Romans 8:4 (KJV)

The links provided go to the Blue Letter Bible website.


The veil that creates that division is within the mind. Just because you have not seen or cannot see it or perceive it does not mean that it does not exist regardless of what one calls themselves whether it be Jew or Gentile.

Therefore they remain dead or asleep in the dust of the earth unaware of 'life' that is within them. For the kingdom of heaven is in you. Can everyone (all those that call themselves as Jew or Christian see it or get there to understand what is in themselves at this time in this present world of carnal flesh is another issue).

Paul 'a little one' answers the question to those who are in Corinth and Ephesians.

"But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."

 

[BreezeWood]

Paladin: That's a fair point, but with that in mind how, then, are we to know what -- if ANYTHING -- is a genuine part of the Bible? Only those that cast Yahweh in a positive light?

.
when those people that are the legacy of 4th century christianity, their history of repression and persecution of free Spirited individuals are brought to heal the true path from the 1st century can be reforged and set straight again.

The 4th Century A.D. is when the Bishops of the Early Church morphed it into fiefdoms with themselves as demigods.
This then culminated in a demigod Pope at Rome followed by several split-offs by first the Eastern Orthodox, then King Henry 8th, and finally Martin Luther.

.

The 4th Century A.D. is when ...

the compilation of the christian bible was put into effect the late 4th century AD 397 ... choosing what they included.

Had to be earlier than that because Eusebius was involved in the compilation and he registered marked disagreement with Hebrews and with Revelation as both being fraudulent.

.

Had to be earlier than that because Eusebius was involved in the compilation and he registered marked disagreement with Hebrews and with Revelation as both being fraudulent.

Eusebius: He became the bishop of Caesarea Maritima about 314 AD.


the final version of the compiled christian bible was AD 397, the process began in the early 4th century.

the point being made is the christian bible is not unbiased and is constructed to lean in the political manner of those who compiled the book rather than as a religious document and there is no reason not to revisit and rewrite the bible to remove the biases that artificially exist due to that period of time.

 

[RodISHI]

Paladin: That's a fair point, but with that in mind how, then, are we to know what -- if ANYTHING -- is a genuine part of the Bible? Only those that cast Yahweh in a positive light?

.
when those people that are the legacy of 4th century christianity, their history of repression and persecution of free Spirited individuals are brought to heal the true path from the 1st century can be reforged and set straight again.

The 4th Century A.D. is when the Bishops of the Early Church morphed it into fiefdoms with themselves as demigods.
This then culminated in a demigod Pope at Rome followed by several split-offs by first the Eastern Orthodox, then King Henry 8th, and finally Martin Luther.

.

The 4th Century A.D. is when ...

the compilation of the christian bible was put into effect the late 4th century AD 397 ... choosing what they included.

Had to be earlier than that because Eusebius was involved in the compilation and he registered marked disagreement with Hebrews and with Revelation as both being fraudulent.

.

Had to be earlier than that because Eusebius was involved in the compilation and he registered marked disagreement with Hebrews and with Revelation as both being fraudulent.

Eusebius: He became the bishop of Caesarea Maritima about 314 AD.


the final version of the compiled christian bible was AD 397, the process began in the early 4th century.

the point being made is the christian bible is not unbiased and is constructed to lean in the political manner of those who compiled the book rather than as a religious document and there is no reason not to revisit and rewrite the bible to remove the biases that artificially exist due to that period of time.

Can you specify the scriptures that you think are bias?

 

[hobelim]

"Its not that I have a lack of faith, I am asking how it is possible that the spirit of truth, if you object to the word ghost, has not done even one single thing that Jesus said God would send the holy spirit to do if he already has come?"
It is not my personal objection to using the word holy ghost. Different cultures have different words to explain what a spirit is. You covered it nicely describing "disembodied spirits" as to where the problem may lie for some who are confused. The holy spirit is not some disembodied creature it is a little piece of heavenly treasure that is installed from the manufacture.

Did you read John 16:8-15? Read it again and tell me if Jesus is describing God sending another human being and what he would be sent by God to do, or if Jesus describing what an invisible spirit would be sent by God to do?

"Jesus mentions specific things that the spirit of truth would do that have not been done so how do you explain that fact with the claim that he has already come a very long time ago?"
You are speaking corporately for the whole when it has to be put on an individual basis. Not all are restored at that same point in time.

No, Jesus clearly says that the the Jews would be convinced that Jesus was right when the spirit of truth came. He is predicting his teaching being vindicated and accepted by the entire nation of Israel after being convinced that Jesus was right, not after 2000 or 10000 years depending where they each are at individually.

Lets face it, if Christians are going to continue to insist that Jesus was God or that Jesus claimed to be God the Jewish people as a whole will never be convinced that Jesus was right about anything and will probably continue to think that you have all been placed under a delusion and are lost and gone forever.

Your claims about Jesus being God in the flesh that you profess to be inspired by the holy spirit will only continue to convince the Jewish people that Jesus was insane and they were always right to reject his teaching out of hand.

The exact opposite of what Jesus said that the Spirit of truth would be sent by God to do...

"Lets face it" you are missing things I have told you and you are the one who is lacking. The kingdom of heaven was installed by the manufacture.

I can tell you truthful things but can your carnal mind perceive them?

Or would you prefer to banter on about the religious affiliation of others?

Your precepts of "Jewish people" and those who are God's Jewish people that are called may not be one in the same.

You keep missing the point that the spirit God is not limited to only what you can now perceive.

The point was that the testimony that you claim is inspired by the holy spirit, that Jesus is God, brings the name of Jesus into disrepute, convinces the Jewish people that Jesus was insane, and the irrational christian beliefs that one unequalled God is really three coequal persons convinces them that they were always right to reject what Jesus taught.

The exact opposite of what Jesus himself said the Spirit of truth is supposed to do when he came...;

he will show where wrong and right and judgement lie, he will convict them of wrong by their refusal to believe in Jesus, he will convince them that Jesus was right and demonstrate that the prince of this world stands condemned.

And he will glorify Jesus by drawing from what he taught and revealing it to you, not make him out to be a false prophet by desecrating his teaching and making it incomprehensible.....

 

[RodISHI]

"Its not that I have a lack of faith, I am asking how it is possible that the spirit of truth, if you object to the word ghost, has not done even one single thing that Jesus said God would send the holy spirit to do if he already has come?"
It is not my personal objection to using the word holy ghost. Different cultures have different words to explain what a spirit is. You covered it nicely describing "disembodied spirits" as to where the problem may lie for some who are confused. The holy spirit is not some disembodied creature it is a little piece of heavenly treasure that is installed from the manufacture.

Did you read John 16:8-15? Read it again and tell me if Jesus is describing God sending another human being and what he would be sent by God to do, or if Jesus describing what an invisible spirit would be sent by God to do?

"Jesus mentions specific things that the spirit of truth would do that have not been done so how do you explain that fact with the claim that he has already come a very long time ago?"
You are speaking corporately for the whole when it has to be put on an individual basis. Not all are restored at that same point in time.

No, Jesus clearly says that the the Jews would be convinced that Jesus was right when the spirit of truth came. He is predicting his teaching being vindicated and accepted by the entire nation of Israel after being convinced that Jesus was right, not after 2000 or 10000 years depending where they each are at individually.

Lets face it, if Christians are going to continue to insist that Jesus was God or that Jesus claimed to be God the Jewish people as a whole will never be convinced that Jesus was right about anything and will probably continue to think that you have all been placed under a delusion and are lost and gone forever.

Your claims about Jesus being God in the flesh that you profess to be inspired by the holy spirit will only continue to convince the Jewish people that Jesus was insane and they were always right to reject his teaching out of hand.

The exact opposite of what Jesus said that the Spirit of truth would be sent by God to do...

"Lets face it" you are missing things I have told you and you are the one who is lacking. The kingdom of heaven was installed by the manufacture.

I can tell you truthful things but can your carnal mind perceive them?

Or would you prefer to banter on about the religious affiliation of others?

Your precepts of "Jewish people" and those who are God's Jewish people that are called may not be one in the same.

You keep missing the point that the spirit God is not limited to only what you can now perceive.

The point was that the testimony that you claim is inspired by the holy spirit, that Jesus is God, brings the name of Jesus into disrepute, convinces the Jewish people that Jesus was insane, and the irrational christian beliefs that one unequalled God is really three coequal persons convinces them that they were always right to reject what Jesus taught.

The exact opposite of what Jesus himself said the Spirit of truth would do.

Why do you try to malign what I told you by inserting your own precepts? You are the one that keeps saying "Jesus is God". In fact he told the disciples when they told him he was good that only one was good and that was God.



If anyone rejects the truth it is on them not you, if you reject truth it is on you not me. Having Christ means one is anointed with the salvation the Son of God provides. Do you take issue with that personally or are you just parroting someone else's talking points?

You can start first by answering questions I have asked of you.