Locke, Social Contract Theory, and the Citizens Right to Revolt

[emilynghiem]

" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.

And the same people they were protesting and revolting against can also respond to them as abusing power to violate laws. While yet other people argue BOTH sides are revolting!

 

[Norman]

OK. And what do you think that reason is?

Because they didn't want anyone doing to them what they did to the British.

As demonstrated by the army Washington lead to put down Shay.

Probable and understandable. But that doesn't mean that they didn't consider treason necessary under certain circumstances. They stated so quite bluntly in the Declaration of Independence.

There were no provisions for treason against the United States in their constitution or their laws. Treason is the only crime the constitution goes to the trouble of defining and defining exclusively.

So they clearly didn't consider treason against the United States to be necessary....under any circumstance. Treason against Britain? Yes.

Is that inconsistent and deeply hypocritical of them? Also yes.

Disagree. From the Declaration of Independence:

"-That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,..."

I don't see how that limits what they clearly describe as a Right of the People to any particular government or even any form of government much less to just the British of their time. Note the "whenever". Seems clear to me that for the People to alter or abolish their government is invariably considered treason by the ruling government. What makes you think the US government was meant to be exempt from that sentiment? What is it you consider deeply hypocritical and inconsistent? It would only be so if your interpretation is correct which I don't believe.

And when they'd won their revolution and established their own government the Founders shut the 'revolution' door behind them and wrote this:

View attachment 440474

It is the only crime that they ever defined in the entirety of the constitution. They left no provisions for making war against the United States. And put down every rebellion violently and thoroughly.

The founders did NOT believe in treason against the United States. And created no laws, no amendments, no provisions in the constitution for citizens of the United States to wage war against their own nation.

The founders were hypocrites of course. But successful ones.

That article limits how the government defines treason and in no way speaks to the issue of whether they considered it necessary in certain circumstances. Of course treason is illegal always has been everywhere and that is especially true in times and places where it is necessary. That doesn't make it any less necessary as the FF were well aware.

Waging war against the United States is the definition they chose. With Treason being the ONLY crime they felt necessary to include in the Constitution.

And the founders didn't provide any provision, any law, any means of 'legally' waging war against the United States for its citizens.

Every rebellion that rose up they brutally put down. With Washington leading those armies personally.

The Founders shut the door of revolution behind them. And did not EVER support treason against the United States.

Only treason against Britain.

The founders clearly supported revolting against all tyranny and illegitimate representation.

You don't but you are not even an American so shut up and just own up to your communist beliefs and go back to eating soy.

 

[Norman]

 

[Norman]

 

[alang1216]

They did leave me in charge...I'm a common citizen. Not a lobbyist or a corrupt politician. Certainly not a fake journalist.

Got it. You have as much authority as any of the BLM protesters and you're no different from Antifa.

I'm a patriot they are not. They support liberal establishment in government, education and media. I do not. I want to save my nation, not destroy it like the Marxist left. Congress is part of the problem. We now have AOC + 3 serving in the halls of Congress as well as Black Panther Bobby Rush. Maxine Waters and Shelia Jackson Lee are complete criminals.

I wonder if they would say they are citizens and patriots that want to save the nation from people just like you?

Nope. They are just Marxist pieces of shit. Black Lives Matter set the standard for peaceful protest. Trump protest was peaceful.

At least tell me you consider the shooter of one of the protesters to be a hero on par with Kyle Rittenhouse since both were protecting property.

 

[Norman]

They did leave me in charge...I'm a common citizen. Not a lobbyist or a corrupt politician. Certainly not a fake journalist.

Got it. You have as much authority as any of the BLM protesters and you're no different from Antifa.

I'm a patriot they are not. They support liberal establishment in government, education and media. I do not. I want to save my nation, not destroy it like the Marxist left. Congress is part of the problem. We now have AOC + 3 serving in the halls of Congress as well as Black Panther Bobby Rush. Maxine Waters and Shelia Jackson Lee are complete criminals.

I wonder if they would say they are citizens and patriots that want to save the nation from people just like you?

Nope. They are just Marxist pieces of shit. Black Lives Matter set the standard for peaceful protest. Trump protest was peaceful.

At least tell me you consider the shooter of one of the protesters to be a hero on par with Kyle Rittenhouse since both were protecting property.

No, he is murderer. Rittenhouse was protecting himself, not property.

 

[alang1216]

They did leave me in charge...I'm a common citizen. Not a lobbyist or a corrupt politician. Certainly not a fake journalist.

Got it. You have as much authority as any of the BLM protesters and you're no different from Antifa.

I'm a patriot they are not. They support liberal establishment in government, education and media. I do not. I want to save my nation, not destroy it like the Marxist left. Congress is part of the problem. We now have AOC + 3 serving in the halls of Congress as well as Black Panther Bobby Rush. Maxine Waters and Shelia Jackson Lee are complete criminals.

I wonder if they would say they are citizens and patriots that want to save the nation from people just like you?

Nope. They are just Marxist pieces of shit. Black Lives Matter set the standard for peaceful protest. Trump protest was peaceful.

At least tell me you consider the shooter of one of the protesters to be a hero on par with Kyle Rittenhouse since both were protecting property.

No, he is murderer. Rittenhouse was protecting himself, not property.

So you're saying that the cop should not have been in fear of his life when being approached by a mob of criminal trespassers. If he asked them to leave and they refused would that change anything? If they refused to cooperate isn't that akin to the Floyd shooting, making that cop a murderer too?

 

[Bush92]

" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.

And a duly elected government has a right defend itself from sedition.

If it was legitimately elected.

It was.

When you have ballot dumps in the middle of the night with the nefarious "mail in ballots" it violates the social contract rendering the government illegitimate.

There were no ballot dumps in the middle of the night.... absentee ballots were not processed and counted until the middle of the night.... and the next few nights, it took a while to process, then count them all.

You can't have an absentee ballot without an envelope, an envelope that was processed, including whether it was a legitimate registered voter, and one that put in a request for that mail ballot... in all of the battle ground states, except one, which had election law in their state, that permitted them to mail ballots to registered voters, without a request.


In the Checks and Balance process of elections, the count of how many mail in ballots were processed by the machine, has to match the count of absentee ballot envelopes received.

You can not stuff the ballot count with absentee ballots, nor can you run a ballot through more than once, with both times it counting.....because the total of ballots, would be more than the total of envelopes, and it would be CAUGHT.

And what exactly stops a machine from counting a vote for Trump as a vote for Biden if secretly rigged to do so? When I voted I pushed a series of buttons on a machine and have no way of knowing what the machine actually registered or whether that information was passed on correctly. I expect some proof that my vote was actually counted as intended before I would consider the election legitimate. Why should States have an opportunity to make laws that make it easier for them to cheat? The President elected is supposed to be the President of every one in the Nation so the rules for his election should apply equally to all citizens. But ONLY actual living breathing citizens.

State legislatures write their election laws, with both democratic and republican legislatures, to make elections, as secure and safe as possible.... machines are audited before elections to make certain they are working correctly.....

Also, the voting machines are not connected to the internet, they are contained within each voting precinct....

And every one of these 6 battleground states gave a printed receipt of your votes for the election that you could check..... if you voted in person..... Trump didn't question the in person voting that you are concerned about, he was a happy camper with those election results because he was way ahead in the election day, in person votes.

In ADDITION, Democrats voted mostly by mail.... and every single ballot is a hand-filled ballot.... there was a paper trail.... and on the recounts requested by president trump, these hand counted absentee ballots, matched the machine scanned counts.....!

I am aware that States write their own election laws which is just as it should be for State elections. But the rules should be the same nationwide for national elections because no one deserves special privileges because of where they live.

The only way a national election would make sense is if it were a popular vote.

What the fuck has it or blathering have to do with Us Constitution? Democracy stole! Bynth

They did leave me in charge...I'm a common citizen. Not a lobbyist or a corrupt politician. Certainly not a fake journalist.

Got it. You have as much authority as any of the BLM protesters and you're no different from Antifa.

I'm a patriot they are not. They support liberal establishment in government, education and media. I do not. I want to save my nation, not destroy it like the Marxist left. Congress is part of the problem. We now have AOC + 3 serving in the halls of Congress as well as Black Panther Bobby Rush. Maxine Waters and Shelia Jackson Lee are complete criminals.

I wonder if they would say they are citizens and patriots that want to save the nation from people just like you?

Nope. They are just Marxist pieces of shit. Black Lives Matter set the standard for peaceful protest. Trump protest was peaceful.

At least tell me you consider the shooter of one of the protesters to be a hero on par with Kyle Rittenhouse since both were protecting property.

No, he is murderer. Rittenhouse was protecting himself, not property.

The government in Kenosha broke the social contract ...but the kid wasnt from Kenosha. He went there with a good heart. The failure test with the liberal idiots who control Wisconsin government who didn't call out the National Guard to restore order. This delved into why the Congress was stormed. All summer nothing was done to stop leftist anarchist. So what the fuck? Go for it!

 

[9thIDdoc]

They did leave me in charge...I'm a common citizen. Not a lobbyist or a corrupt politician. Certainly not a fake journalist.

Got it. You have as much authority as any of the BLM protesters and you're no different from Antifa.

I'm a patriot they are not. They support liberal establishment in government, education and media. I do not. I want to save my nation, not destroy it like the Marxist left. Congress is part of the problem. We now have AOC + 3 serving in the halls of Congress as well as Black Panther Bobby Rush. Maxine Waters and Shelia Jackson Lee are complete criminals.

I wonder if they would say they are citizens and patriots that want to save the nation from people just like you?

Nope. They are just Marxist pieces of shit. Black Lives Matter set the standard for peaceful protest. Trump protest was peaceful.

At least tell me you consider the shooter of one of the protesters to be a hero on par with Kyle Rittenhouse since both were protecting property.

No, he is murderer. Rittenhouse was protecting himself, not property.

So you're saying that the cop should not have been in fear of his life when being approached by a mob of criminal trespassers. If he asked them to leave and they refused would that change anything? If they refused to cooperate isn't that akin to the Floyd shooting, making that cop a murderer too?

The flaw in your argument is that he didn't shoot a mob; he shot an unarmed woman that appeared to be no threat to him. His job was to protect her just as much as it was to protect any other person or place.

 

[Borillar]

" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.

And a duly elected government has a right defend itself from sedition.

If it was legitimately elected.

and it was.

Only a blithering nincompoop would believe this election was legitimate.

Only a blithering nincompoop would believe it wasn't.

Throw out the corrupted mail-in ballots and what result do you get slow in the head boy?

They weren't corrupted..

Then let's look at the signatures in the voter registration log book. Oh, that's right, we can't. Rest my fucking case.

The ballots were gathered, examined, tallied, and certified. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your delusions. Trump lost. Bigly. Get over it and move on.

No they weren't examined--how do I know---because many didn't even have signatures or addresses or were missing other information so there would have been nothing to examine.

and exactly HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT if they were never examined silly one?

Because Trump, Hannity, Alex Jones, Rush, and the other Trump mouthpieces tell him so.

 

[alang1216]

They did leave me in charge...I'm a common citizen. Not a lobbyist or a corrupt politician. Certainly not a fake journalist.

Got it. You have as much authority as any of the BLM protesters and you're no different from Antifa.

I'm a patriot they are not. They support liberal establishment in government, education and media. I do not. I want to save my nation, not destroy it like the Marxist left. Congress is part of the problem. We now have AOC + 3 serving in the halls of Congress as well as Black Panther Bobby Rush. Maxine Waters and Shelia Jackson Lee are complete criminals.

I wonder if they would say they are citizens and patriots that want to save the nation from people just like you?

Nope. They are just Marxist pieces of shit. Black Lives Matter set the standard for peaceful protest. Trump protest was peaceful.

At least tell me you consider the shooter of one of the protesters to be a hero on par with Kyle Rittenhouse since both were protecting property.

No, he is murderer. Rittenhouse was protecting himself, not property.

So you're saying that the cop should not have been in fear of his life when being approached by a mob of criminal trespassers. If he asked them to leave and they refused would that change anything? If they refused to cooperate isn't that akin to the Floyd shooting, making that cop a murderer too?

The flaw in your argument is that he didn't shoot a mob; he shot an unarmed woman that appeared to be no threat to him. His job was to protect her just as much as it was to protect any other person or place.

So the cop is a criminal? So what does that make the cops who have shot unarmed Black men?

 

[georgephillip]

Thank you for justifying the events of last Wednesday.

Here's your justification:

"The inherent (rather than constitutional) right to revolt was cited in the year prior the civil war's start as justifying the secession of the Confederate States of America.[3"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution#American_Civil_War

 

[georgephillip]

Perhaps next election the Democrats will have Dominos deliver ballots with every pizza

Any thoughts on why every judge who's evaluated your side's "evidence" has found no indication of fraud?

 

[9thIDdoc]

They did leave me in charge...I'm a common citizen. Not a lobbyist or a corrupt politician. Certainly not a fake journalist.

Got it. You have as much authority as any of the BLM protesters and you're no different from Antifa.

I'm a patriot they are not. They support liberal establishment in government, education and media. I do not. I want to save my nation, not destroy it like the Marxist left. Congress is part of the problem. We now have AOC + 3 serving in the halls of Congress as well as Black Panther Bobby Rush. Maxine Waters and Shelia Jackson Lee are complete criminals.

I wonder if they would say they are citizens and patriots that want to save the nation from people just like you?

Nope. They are just Marxist pieces of shit. Black Lives Matter set the standard for peaceful protest. Trump protest was peaceful.

At least tell me you consider the shooter of one of the protesters to be a hero on par with Kyle Rittenhouse since both were protecting property.

No, he is murderer. Rittenhouse was protecting himself, not property.

So you're saying that the cop should not have been in fear of his life when being approached by a mob of criminal trespassers. If he asked them to leave and they refused would that change anything? If they refused to cooperate isn't that akin to the Floyd shooting, making that cop a murderer too?

The flaw in your argument is that he didn't shoot a mob; he shot an unarmed woman that appeared to be no threat to him. His job was to protect her just as much as it was to protect any other person or place.

So the cop is a criminal? So what does that make the cops who have shot unarmed Black men?

Nobody is a criminal until they are tried and found guilty in a court of law. And I am way tired of race baiters determined to make every issue about race.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate.

No what we saw was that one plus a few hundred more flew over the cuckoo's nest

 

[Bush92]

What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate.

No what we saw was that one plus a few hundred more flew over the cuckoo's nest

We saw how our nation was founded.

 

[Bush92]

They did leave me in charge...I'm a common citizen. Not a lobbyist or a corrupt politician. Certainly not a fake journalist.

Got it. You have as much authority as any of the BLM protesters and you're no different from Antifa.

I'm a patriot they are not. They support liberal establishment in government, education and media. I do not. I want to save my nation, not destroy it like the Marxist left. Congress is part of the problem. We now have AOC + 3 serving in the halls of Congress as well as Black Panther Bobby Rush. Maxine Waters and Shelia Jackson Lee are complete criminals.

I wonder if they would say they are citizens and patriots that want to save the nation from people just like you?

Nope. They are just Marxist pieces of shit. Black Lives Matter set the standard for peaceful protest. Trump protest was peaceful.

At least tell me you consider the shooter of one of the protesters to be a hero on par with Kyle Rittenhouse since both were protecting property.

No, he is murderer. Rittenhouse was protecting himself, not property.

So you're saying that the cop should not have been in fear of his life when being approached by a mob of criminal trespassers. If he asked them to leave and they refused would that change anything? If they refused to cooperate isn't that akin to the Floyd shooting, making that cop a murderer too?

The flaw in your argument is that he didn't shoot a mob; he shot an unarmed woman that appeared to be no threat to him. His job was to protect her just as much as it was to protect any other person or place.

So the cop is a criminal? So what does that make the cops who have shot unarmed Black men?

Nobody is a criminal until they are tried and found guilty in a court of law. And I am way tired of race baiters determined to make every issue about race.

What the lunatics on the left do. About to come crashing down around them.

 

[9thIDdoc]

 

[Coyote]

Your argument has one fallacy. What if half the people do not agree with the other half that there should be a revolt. What percentage of the people makes it legit. The use of violence and vandalism to overthrow the government by violence means is not what they are talking about in a democracy.

Policy is determined by the people voting for those who will represent them in the government . Is it perfect, no but the alternative is not even close to perfect. You can have disagreements but at the end of the day , if you do not have the votes, then you lost. Accepting defeat and planning for the next battle is the best way to get along with others. It is not burned it down and start over. It is not denying the process because you believe what others tell you.

Verifiable facts do matter and convenient what if scenarios just cloud the argument. If people all have rights then that means acceptance that your view did not win. Violence is an easy way to get your point across but it does not stop others from using violence. Peaceful protest is a right but once it turns violent then it is a riot and sedition. It does not change because you are waiving a flag.

Wasn't one of the principles of the democracy experiment supposed to be that political differences were settled at the ballot box not through violence?

 

[Bush92]

Your argument has one fallacy. What if half the people do not agree with the other half that there should be a revolt. What percentage of the people makes it legit. The use of violence and vandalism to overthrow the government by violence means is not what they are talking about in a democracy.

Policy is determined by the people voting for those who will represent them in the government . Is it perfect, no but the alternative is not even close to perfect. You can have disagreements but at the end of the day , if you do not have the votes, then you lost. Accepting defeat and planning for the next battle is the best way to get along with others. It is not burned it down and start over. It is not denying the process because you believe what others tell you.

Verifiable facts do matter and convenient what if scenarios just cloud the argument. If people all have rights then that means acceptance that your view did not win. Violence is an easy way to get your point across but it does not stop others from using violence. Peaceful protest is a right but once it turns violent then it is a riot and sedition. It does not change because you are waiving a flag.

Wasn't one of the principles of the democracy experiment supposed to be that political differences were settled at the ballot box not through violence?

If you have democracy. Otherwise there is no choice.