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Locke, Social Contract Theory, and the Citizens Right to Revolt

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Bush92

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Your argument has one fallacy. What if half the people do not agree with the other half that there should be a revolt. What percentage of the people makes it legit. The use of violence and vandalism to overthrow the government by violence means is not what they are talking about in a democracy.

Policy is determined by the people voting for those who will represent them in the government . Is it perfect, no but the alternative is not even close to perfect. You can have disagreements but at the end of the day , if you do not have the votes, then you lost. Accepting defeat and planning for the next battle is the best way to get along with others. It is not burned it down and start over. It is not denying the process because you believe what others tell you.

Verifiable facts do matter and convenient what if scenarios just cloud the argument. If people all have rights then that means acceptance that your view did not win. Violence is an easy way to get your point across but it does not stop others from using violence. Peaceful protest is a right but once it turns violent then it is a riot and sedition. It does not change because you are waiving a flag.
Wasn't one of the principles of the democracy experiment supposed to be that political differences were settled at the ballot box not through violence?
True, but also:

Declaration of Independence:
"-That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, ..."


Appears that some of the People no longer consent.

"......Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. - "

Losing an election or two doesn't count as a long train of abuses. The mob was incited by Trumpys team's lies echoed by a compliant media, which when you look at it, is a large part of Trumpy's team too.
Bullshit! If we are to maintain our democratic republic then we need integrity in our elections. Stop this shit right now or Democrats will continue to steal elections!
 
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Your argument has one fallacy. What if half the people do not agree with the other half that there should be a revolt. What percentage of the people makes it legit. The use of violence and vandalism to overthrow the government by violence means is not what they are talking about in a democracy.

Policy is determined by the people voting for those who will represent them in the government . Is it perfect, no but the alternative is not even close to perfect. You can have disagreements but at the end of the day , if you do not have the votes, then you lost. Accepting defeat and planning for the next battle is the best way to get along with others. It is not burned it down and start over. It is not denying the process because you believe what others tell you.

Verifiable facts do matter and convenient what if scenarios just cloud the argument. If people all have rights then that means acceptance that your view did not win. Violence is an easy way to get your point across but it does not stop others from using violence. Peaceful protest is a right but once it turns violent then it is a riot and sedition. It does not change because you are waiving a flag.
Wasn't one of the principles of the democracy experiment supposed to be that political differences were settled at the ballot box not through violence?



Declaration of Independence:
"-That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, ..."


Appears that some of the People no longer consent.

It also says

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;

Still these statements are just made by men trying to justify the break from England. No government sets itself up with a way that it can be overthrown.

Still if you pick and chose excerpts then yeah you can find a sentence that seems to support your views but you have to take the entirety of the whole document and not just excerpts.
9th Doc
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

clearly if you read the who paragraph it clarifies that they are talking about the justification to break away from England (Despotism) and reflects the will of the colonists. Then they list their grievances

Declaration of Independence pretty much says what it is. It is not the nuts and bolts of how the government is run. It pretty much a cheer to rally the troops.

. That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.

It is nothing more than a proclamation to be free from England.


The constitution is the defining document of the government. Just as quickly they consented to be governed by an official body. Now if those who wish to dissolve the union can bring it up on the floor of Congress and if it passes then hip hip hooray, but if it fails you lose.

then comes in
18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

That is why the stunt of Texas AG to overturn the election failed so miserable

All members of Congress take an oath to uphold the constitution and even if Trump is not part of Congress he must uphold the constitution.

Contest of power are done thru the framework of elections. If the election was fraud then provide proof or evidence of this fraud that cost Trump the election . Proof is not something you read or what someone says. To say you found a couple incidents of fraud that would not change the outcome, then use this incidents to make a larger claim that the whole election was fraud is why it failed. Just because that one bottle of beer is bad, does not mean that all beer is bad.

Well if you believe the election was stolen then that is your belief. If you have no evidence then people will chuckle and go about their business.

Still if repubs feel the need to list the things that bug them fine write a declaration. Then try and overthrow the government. The government has a thing called can jail and if you beleve demos are soft on crime then okay. Still you can get your congressmen to vote for your beliefs . Hey who knows.
I do and have agreed with much of what you say and have indeed said the same or similar myself.
We disagree whether the sentiments expressed in the Declaration of Independence applied (in their opinion) in general or just in reference to the Britain as it existed at that time.
We also seem to disagree on whether or not it matters.
You seem to think the events in DC constituted insurrection. Whereas I tend to think what occurred was predictable result of the treasonous attempt to fix an American national election.
9th Doc knows about civil war because he was in one. It was called "Vietnam."
 

Agit8r

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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.

It is quite obvious that none of the people with hundreds of dollars to spend on merch, thousands of dollars to spend on airfare, and however much it cost to build 13 pipe bombs, had no reason to be so upset over the outcome of an election. They are brainwashed demoniacs without reason nor right.
 
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Your argument has one fallacy. What if half the people do not agree with the other half that there should be a revolt. What percentage of the people makes it legit. The use of violence and vandalism to overthrow the government by violence means is not what they are talking about in a democracy.

Policy is determined by the people voting for those who will represent them in the government . Is it perfect, no but the alternative is not even close to perfect. You can have disagreements but at the end of the day , if you do not have the votes, then you lost. Accepting defeat and planning for the next battle is the best way to get along with others. It is not burned it down and start over. It is not denying the process because you believe what others tell you.

Verifiable facts do matter and convenient what if scenarios just cloud the argument. If people all have rights then that means acceptance that your view did not win. Violence is an easy way to get your point across but it does not stop others from using violence. Peaceful protest is a right but once it turns violent then it is a riot and sedition. It does not change because you are waiving a flag.
Wasn't one of the principles of the democracy experiment supposed to be that political differences were settled at the ballot box not through violence?
If you have democracy. Otherwise there is no choice.
We do. You can't arbitrarily decide we don't just because you lost the election. That would mean every 4 to 8 years we'd have a bloody overthrow.
Do you think if Harris and Biden call out the military the troops will turn guns on their own people? I live right next to a military base and these troops are my friends. I can assure you the Harris-Biden tag team of criminals better flee to Canada.
 
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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.

It is quite obvious that none of the people with hundreds of dollars to spend on merch, thousands of dollars to spend on airfare, and however much it cost to build 13 pipe bombs, had no reason to be so upset over the outcome of an election. They are brainwashed demoniacs without reason nor right.
See you next to a drainage ditch someday.
 

9thIDdoc

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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.

It is quite obvious that none of the people with hundreds of dollars to spend on merch, thousands of dollars to spend on airfare, and however much it cost to build 13 pipe bombs, had no reason to be so upset over the outcome of an election. They are brainwashed demoniacs without reason nor right.
That is your opinion and facebook gives you the right to share it here. My opinion is that your opinion sucks. Big time. Have a nice day.
 
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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.
And a duly elected government has a right defend itself from sedition.
That is what the British government called the American Revolution.
It is in the American DNA. We are a transcontinental nation made-up of people who are from all parts of everything held together by a Constitution that protects the people from the government. Liberal politicians and news propaganda want to change that.
 

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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.
And a duly elected government has a right defend itself from sedition.
If it was legitimately elected.

And if they're not just defining any protest as "sedition" because, duly elected or not, they're a bunch of tyrants at heart.
 

Cecilie1200

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Your argument has one fallacy. What if half the people do not agree with the other half that there should be a revolt. What percentage of the people makes it legit. The use of violence and vandalism to overthrow the government by violence means is not what they are talking about in a democracy.

Policy is determined by the people voting for those who will represent them in the government . Is it perfect, no but the alternative is not even close to perfect. You can have disagreements but at the end of the day , if you do not have the votes, then you lost. Accepting defeat and planning for the next battle is the best way to get along with others. It is not burned it down and start over. It is not denying the process because you believe what others tell you.

Verifiable facts do matter and convenient what if scenarios just cloud the argument. If people all have rights then that means acceptance that your view did not win. Violence is an easy way to get your point across but it does not stop others from using violence. Peaceful protest is a right but once it turns violent then it is a riot and sedition. It does not change because you are waiving a flag.

Legitimacy is not determined by how many people you can get to agree with you, or think they agree with you.

"A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it's accepted by a majority." - Booker T. Washington

Would you like to talk about all the atrocities committed in human history that were viewed as normal and acceptable by the majority of people, until a small - often reviled - group of people stood up and objected?
 

Osiris-ODS

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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.
And a duly elected government has a right defend itself from sedition.
If it was legitimately elected.
It was.
When you have ballot dumps in the middle of the night with the nefarious "mail in ballots" it violates the social contract rendering the government illegitimate.
There were no ballot dumps in the middle of the night.... absentee ballots were not processed and counted until the middle of the night.... and the next few nights, it took a while to process, then count them all.

You can't have an absentee ballot without an envelope, an envelope that was processed, including whether it was a legitimate registered voter, and one that put in a request for that mail ballot... in all of the battle ground states, except one, which had election law in their state, that permitted them to mail ballots to registered voters, without a request.


In the Checks and Balance process of elections, the count of how many mail in ballots were processed by the machine, has to match the count of absentee ballot envelopes received.

You can not stuff the ballot count with absentee ballots, nor can you run a ballot through more than once, with both times it counting.....because the total of ballots, would be more than the total of envelopes, and it would be CAUGHT.
And what exactly stops a machine from counting a vote for Trump as a vote for Biden if secretly rigged to do so? When I voted I pushed a series of buttons on a machine and have no way of knowing what the machine actually registered or whether that information was passed on correctly. I expect some proof that my vote was actually counted as intended before I would consider the election legitimate. Why should States have an opportunity to make laws that make it easier for them to cheat? The President elected is supposed to be the President of every one in the Nation so the rules for his election should apply equally to all citizens. But ONLY actual living breathing citizens.

Care4All repeats the same explanation about recounts confirming the totals every day, but she is clearly uninformed about the electronic poll pad voting devices, adjudicated ballots or military ballots. She seems to think every ballot was a bubble-in paper ballot. Like you explained, the poll pad voting is electronic on a digital screen that prints out a paper with a code that is supposed to reflect your choices when it's scanned by the tabulator. And like you said, there's no way for you to know what the code and tabulator actually reported to be your selections. So they can run those printouts till the cows come home and it's going to return the same results. Similarly, military ballots are manually transferred to another ballot sheet by poll workers when received, and the original ballot discarded. So without oversight, that process is rife with potential for fraud. Same with adjudicated ballots, where the ballot scan returns an error, a poll worker determines the voter's "intent" and creates a new ballot that is scannable, at which point the original is discarded (one GA precinct adjudicated over 90% of a batch of 100k+ ballots). Rife with the potential for fraud. But in each case, recounts will result in the same numbers every time. Garbage in, garbage out.
 
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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.
And a duly elected government has a right defend itself from sedition.
If it was legitimately elected.
It was.
When you have ballot dumps in the middle of the night with the nefarious "mail in ballots" it violates the social contract rendering the government illegitimate.
There were no ballot dumps in the middle of the night.... absentee ballots were not processed and counted until the middle of the night.... and the next few nights, it took a while to process, then count them all.

You can't have an absentee ballot without an envelope, an envelope that was processed, including whether it was a legitimate registered voter, and one that put in a request for that mail ballot... in all of the battle ground states, except one, which had election law in their state, that permitted them to mail ballots to registered voters, without a request.


In the Checks and Balance process of elections, the count of how many mail in ballots were processed by the machine, has to match the count of absentee ballot envelopes received.

You can not stuff the ballot count with absentee ballots, nor can you run a ballot through more than once, with both times it counting.....because the total of ballots, would be more than the total of envelopes, and it would be CAUGHT.
And what exactly stops a machine from counting a vote for Trump as a vote for Biden if secretly rigged to do so? When I voted I pushed a series of buttons on a machine and have no way of knowing what the machine actually registered or whether that information was passed on correctly. I expect some proof that my vote was actually counted as intended before I would consider the election legitimate. Why should States have an opportunity to make laws that make it easier for them to cheat? The President elected is supposed to be the President of every one in the Nation so the rules for his election should apply equally to all citizens. But ONLY actual living breathing citizens.

Care4All repeats the same explanation about recounts confirming the totals every day, but she is clearly uninformed about the electronic poll pad voting devices, adjudicated ballits or military ballots. She seems to think every ballot was a bubble-in paper ballot. Like you explained, the poll pad voting is electronic on a digital screen that prints out a paper with a code that is supposed to reflect your choices when it's scanned by the tabulator. And like you said, there's no way for you to know what the code and tabulator actually reported to be your selections. So they can run those printouts till the cows come home and it's going to return the same results. Similarly, military ballits are manually transferred to another ballot sheet by poll workers when received, and the original ballot discarded. So without oversight, that process is rife with potential for fraud. Same with adjudicated ballots, where the ballot scan returns an error, a poll worker determines the voter's "intent" and creates a new ballot that is scannable, at which point the original is discarded (one GA precinct adjudicated over 90% of a batch of 100k+ ballots). Rife with the potential for fraud. But in each case, recounts will result in the same numbers every time. Garbage in, garbage out.
Democracy usurped by liberal political machines. Ashli is dead and so are law enforcement officers because of Pelosi and the criminals in Washington D.C.
 

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..remember that patriotism means to stand by the country, not the president. - Arnold Schwarzenegger.
 

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Cecilie1200

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I have no representation when Nancy Pelosi steals power in the House of Representatives through " vote harvesting" and crooked "mail-in" ballots.
The vote wasn't stolen.

Oh, well, if you just state it as fact, I guess that settles it. Because God knows, everyone trusts you as the fount of all knowledge.
 

9thIDdoc

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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.
And a duly elected government has a right defend itself from sedition.
If it was legitimately elected.
It was.
When you have ballot dumps in the middle of the night with the nefarious "mail in ballots" it violates the social contract rendering the government illegitimate.
There were no ballot dumps in the middle of the night.... absentee ballots were not processed and counted until the middle of the night.... and the next few nights, it took a while to process, then count them all.

You can't have an absentee ballot without an envelope, an envelope that was processed, including whether it was a legitimate registered voter, and one that put in a request for that mail ballot... in all of the battle ground states, except one, which had election law in their state, that permitted them to mail ballots to registered voters, without a request.


In the Checks and Balance process of elections, the count of how many mail in ballots were processed by the machine, has to match the count of absentee ballot envelopes received.

You can not stuff the ballot count with absentee ballots, nor can you run a ballot through more than once, with both times it counting.....because the total of ballots, would be more than the total of envelopes, and it would be CAUGHT.
And what exactly stops a machine from counting a vote for Trump as a vote for Biden if secretly rigged to do so? When I voted I pushed a series of buttons on a machine and have no way of knowing what the machine actually registered or whether that information was passed on correctly. I expect some proof that my vote was actually counted as intended before I would consider the election legitimate. Why should States have an opportunity to make laws that make it easier for them to cheat? The President elected is supposed to be the President of every one in the Nation so the rules for his election should apply equally to all citizens. But ONLY actual living breathing citizens.

Care4All repeats the same explanation about recounts confirming the totals every day, but she is clearly uninformed about the electronic poll pad voting devices, adjudicated ballits or military ballots. She seems to think every ballot was a bubble-in paper ballot. Like you explained, the poll pad voting is electronic on a digital screen that prints out a paper with a code that is supposed to reflect your choices when it's scanned by the tabulator. And like you said, there's no way for you to know what the code and tabulator actually reported to be your selections. So they can run those printouts till the cows come home and it's going to return the same results. Similarly, military ballits are manually transferred to another ballot sheet by poll workers when received, and the original ballot discarded. So without oversight, that process is rife with potential for fraud. Same with adjudicated ballots, where the ballot scan returns an error, a poll worker determines the voter's "intent" and creates a new ballot that is scannable, at which point the original is discarded (one GA precinct adjudicated over 90% of a batch of 100k+ ballots). Rife with the potential for fraud. But in each case, recounts will result in the same numbers every time. Garbage in, garbage out.
I think that the most reasonable thing to do would be to continue the status quo for a year or however long it would take to institute an election procedure that would deliver fair accurate and believable results and then have a do over with a real and believable winner and loser. I think the government-including the courts-has owed the People that for a long time and I'm not sure the People would or should settle for less.
 

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Accepting defeat is one thing, but being part of the sheeple and allowing for stolen democracy is another. Many of the states that changed election laws did so in violation of the Constitution. The American Revolution was actually a civil war between Patriots and Loyalist. Ergo the other 50% better fucking arm themselves.
We've been armed and ready for many years now. We are the reason that qatriots find the ammunition shelves empty. Keep pushing and find out for yourselves.
 
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Bush92

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Accepting defeat is one thing, but being part of the sheeple and allowing for stolen democracy is another. Many of the states that changed election laws did so in violation of the Constitution. The American Revolution was actually a civil war between Patriots and Loyalist. Ergo the other 50% better fucking arm themselves.
We've been armed and ready for many years now. We are the reason that qatriots find the ammunition shelves empty. Keep pushing and find out for yourselves.
Well spoken brother.
 
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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.
And a duly elected government has a right defend itself from sedition.
If it was legitimately elected.
It was.
When you have ballot dumps in the middle of the night with the nefarious "mail in ballots" it violates the social contract rendering the government illegitimate.
There were no ballot dumps in the middle of the night.... absentee ballots were not processed and counted until the middle of the night.... and the next few nights, it took a while to process, then count them all.

You can't have an absentee ballot without an envelope, an envelope that was processed, including whether it was a legitimate registered voter, and one that put in a request for that mail ballot... in all of the battle ground states, except one, which had election law in their state, that permitted them to mail ballots to registered voters, without a request.


In the Checks and Balance process of elections, the count of how many mail in ballots were processed by the machine, has to match the count of absentee ballot envelopes received.

You can not stuff the ballot count with absentee ballots, nor can you run a ballot through more than once, with both times it counting.....because the total of ballots, would be more than the total of envelopes, and it would be CAUGHT.
And what exactly stops a machine from counting a vote for Trump as a vote for Biden if secretly rigged to do so? When I voted I pushed a series of buttons on a machine and have no way of knowing what the machine actually registered or whether that information was passed on correctly. I expect some proof that my vote was actually counted as intended before I would consider the election legitimate. Why should States have an opportunity to make laws that make it easier for them to cheat? The President elected is supposed to be the President of every one in the Nation so the rules for his election should apply equally to all citizens. But ONLY actual living breathing citizens.

Care4All repeats the same explanation about recounts confirming the totals every day, but she is clearly uninformed about the electronic poll pad voting devices, adjudicated ballits or military ballots. She seems to think every ballot was a bubble-in paper ballot. Like you explained, the poll pad voting is electronic on a digital screen that prints out a paper with a code that is supposed to reflect your choices when it's scanned by the tabulator. And like you said, there's no way for you to know what the code and tabulator actually reported to be your selections. So they can run those printouts till the cows come home and it's going to return the same results. Similarly, military ballits are manually transferred to another ballot sheet by poll workers when received, and the original ballot discarded. So without oversight, that process is rife with potential for fraud. Same with adjudicated ballots, where the ballot scan returns an error, a poll worker determines the voter's "intent" and creates a new ballot that is scannable, at which point the original is discarded (one GA precinct adjudicated over 90% of a batch of 100k+ ballots). Rife with the potential for fraud. But in each case, recounts will result in the same numbers every time. Garbage in, garbage out.
I think that the most reasonable thing to do would be to continue the status quo for a year or however long it would take to institute an election procedure that would deliver fair accurate and believable results and then have a do over with a real and believable winner and loser. I think the government-including the courts-has owed the People that for a long time and I'm not sure the People would or should settle for less.
Absolutely troop!
 

Blaine Sweeter

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" John Locke wrote in his Two Treaties on Government that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments."
- Stanford University Plato
What we saw at the citadel of political corruption (The Congress) was people keeping their end of the social contract and storming the center of a crime syndicate. Power ultimately rest in the hands of the people. The citizens have every right to revolt against governments that do not rule in a just manner.

Talk about unhinged. You're not just unhinged but your hinges have snapped.
 

9thIDdoc

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Some people have the mistaken impression Trump was in the Oval Office with close advisers solemnly monitoring the situation on Capitol Hill ready to call in the National Guard at any minute. Nope, he was down in basement with his cronies having a good time listening to loud music and looking at tv monitors...https://trollalley.com/2021/01/08/d...tening-to-music-while-the-riots-was-going-on/
No, I don't think that intelligent people know or care where President Trump was. I don't care where you were either. Do you care where I was? Doubt it.
 

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