Lockdowns Did Not Work

[Likkmee]

Redirect Notice

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Great thinking.........not. Not all States are equal in the threat.

You Trumpettes are just plain dumber than shit.

ZERO to do with Trump. You have to bring him into every discussion because you suffer from TDS.

Trump supporters as a group are dumber than shit. Not my fault.

So. You voted for Hillary ?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Redirect Notice

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Great thinking.........not. Not all States are equal in the threat.

You Trumpettes are just plain dumber than shit.

ZERO to do with Trump. You have to bring him into every discussion because you suffer from TDS.

Trump supporters as a group are dumber than shit. Not my fault.

Dave, I have seen numerous posts by you. Honestly, you should not be calling anyone dumb.

 

[sparky]

the lockdown 'worked' for da GubMit Az

they've f*cked over just about every amendment

and don't tell me it's a 'dem thing'

they all want us under their heel

~S~

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You won't catch it at a grocery or hardware store? Why? You don't know who touched those tomatoes or paint brushes before you?? You are a typical leftist. Stupid.

Quit while you're behind. You just said outside your house to get the mail, dope.

I said grocery store too. I have said it multiple times in that context. Go and check since you have nothing better to do. Stupid Leftist.

I already quoted what you posted and what I responded to, idiot.
Give it up already.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You won't catch it at a grocery or hardware store? Why? You don't know who touched those tomatoes or paint brushes before you?? You are a typical leftist. Stupid.

Quit while you're behind. You just said outside your house to get the mail, dope.

I said grocery store too. I have said it multiple times in that context. Go and check since you have nothing better to do. Stupid Leftist.

I already quoted what you posted and what I responded to, idiot.
Give it up already.

You seem upset. Need a safe space? Going to grocery stores and such puts one at risk. But a tiny risk because this whole thing is overblown.

 

[meaner gene]

I would be worried about fresh fruit and vegetables, where people touch half of them before selecting.

BINGO!!! There you have it.

Hydrogen peroxide is one of the best choices and especially good for germs or disease pathogens. Use a 50/50 mixture of water and the 3 percent product right out of the bottle from the grocery store. Spray or soak the produce in the mix, rinse, dry and enjoy

 

[Wapasha]

In early March they stated that it was not airborne and primarily something you would get by touching and infected surface and then touching your face. That has since turned out to be wrong. Most people are getting it through the air and sometimes the droplets can spread 27 feet instead of just 6 feet before they fall to the ground or become to few to cause an infection.

That reminds of of something I was telling a friend earlier. We have had the first COVID-19 case in the US way back in January. So where is the science on this virus? The entire world has had Jan, Feb, Mar, April, and it's almost May, and still we do not have definitive answers as to how this virus is spread.

Can the virus stay airborne long enough to be carried along indoor building ventilation systems? What's the infection rate? What is the fatality rate for particular age groups? Are people with the antigen being reinfected???

I'm hearing news articles which suggest it does go airborne for a long distance, more than the two meter rule, and that the fatality rate for healthy people under40 years old is akin to the seasonal flu. So which is it, what is it????

The experts keep admonishing us to "follow the science," well, where is the science??? We seem to be stuck in Feb, where the experts singular brainstorming idea was locking ourselves away in our homes. We are almost in May, and we are still stuck with the experts one and only brainstorm from Feb.

Where are the in depth reports by our news media, concerning the methods being used so we can open a business, and allow customers to engage in commerce, and continue to mitigate infection?
The news media only seems to be concerned with causing arguments, creating strife, friction and angst, and only repeating stories which they breathlessly anticipate will sensationalize or politicize the news cycle that day.

Seems like the news media, and our so called epidemiology experts both want to keep us stuck in February.

The virus is brand new, no one knew anything about it on January 1, 2020 except possibly some in China. It takes time to study and learn about the virus. Had Trump did what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020, we would not be in this mess. TAIWAN successfully beat the virus, by shutting down and restricting all travel into the country on January 20, 2020 before there was even one single confirmed case in the country. Trump waited until late March to institute all the travel bans and restrictions that TAIWAN put in place on January 20, 2020. THE RESULT:

TAIWAN INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 429 infections - 6 deaths

UNITED STATES INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 1,100,000 infections - 64,000 deaths.

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people and is the 12 most densely populated country on earth. TAIWAN has not had a single death from Covid-19 in nearly a month and has only 99 active cases left in the country. By the end of May, the virus will not exist anywhere in TAIWAN. In contrast the United States is still having 30,000+ new infections per day and over 2,000 deaths per day as we go into May.

Just the week before, our medical science was not even sure the disease could be transmitted between humans, and yet you wanted Trump to shut down all travel? Based upon what science, what empirical evidence?

Answer to some of your questions:

Yes, the virus can stay airborne long enough to be carried by indoor building ventilation systems.

The true infection rate is not fully known because testing capacity is still too far behind. We need to be able to do 5 million test per day as a country but the average is only up to about 250,000 test a day currently. We know there are 1,100,000 confirmed infections.

The overall fatality rate based on known infections and known deaths from covid 19 is 6% in the United States. Age is really irrelevant although the young have a much better chance of survival. The fact is, everyone is a host that the virus can use to spread itself and THAT is what is relevant.

People with the antigen are being re-infected and any sort of immunity from complications is temporary and will not last. People infected now and that have survived could become infected again next winter and die. Especially if their lungs were damaged in the first infection.

The virus can remain airborne out to 27 feet. What is not known, is if the virus still has enough concentration at 27 feet to cause an infection at that distance.

The fatality rate for people under age 40 is low, but that is irrelevant to fighting the pandemic, because everyone under 40 can spread the virus to people it can kill. In FACT, young people are the primary means the virus spreads because it does not typically kill a YOUNG HOST. When the virus does not kill its hosts, it uses such hosts as a means to spread DEEPER into the population. The largest challenge in killing this pathogen is YOUNG PEOPLE and their superior ability to spread the virus because they rarely die from it.

Successfully defeating a Pandemic virus can take 1 to 3 years. Two months of lockdown is NOTHING, its just the beginning. Had the United States done what TAIWAN did in early January, we would not have to continue to be in lockdown for years. But we face 1 to 2 years of lockdowns do to the way we let the virus penetrate into the United States population.

Continued lockdowns, testing, contact tracing, and isolation is the only method available until a vaccine is developed. A vaccine will be ready at the earliest in August 2021.

As for the economy, 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home. Another 20% to 25% are in essential services and still have to go into work despite the threat of the virus. The other 30% to 40% of people need to remain at home. Opening non-essential business will just help the virus. Also, Business can't return to normal when the consumer is not buying or using the business. Most people will not be going to movies, concerts, sporting events, in person shopping when it is NOT SAFE. So re-opening these business's is essentially useless because they will not get enough consumers to justify reopening.

This is a tragedy a disaster and the goal now is survival until the pathogen is defeated. Once the pathogen is defeated, the rebuilding can begin.

A lot of the assertions you made sound dubious, I'd have to see some links that support them.

Many states have been doing antigen testing, which throws the mortality rates way down into the 0.xx categories. Some of the people testing positive remember being sick back in December and November. If this anecdotal evidence were true, then even if Trump went completely rogue, and shut down all travel into the USA on Jan 20th, it would have been too late, the infection was already here, months earlier.

I've read other articles, but here is one I just found:

After testing positive for antibodies, Minnesota man thinks he may have had COVID-19 in December

 

[Wapasha]

What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.

You're disproving the OP. The original projections were for 1 - 2 millions deaths in the US from the coronavirus. Now that estimate is down to 60K - 120K, because of the lockdowns.

Since the other guy loves "numbers" that means lockdowns are over 90% effective.

If the lockdowns in NYC, for example, are working so wonderfully, why are so many deaths and new infections occurring weeks after the lockdowns went into place? We are just making wild assed guesses that the lockdowns are 90% effective.

 

[U2Edge]

In early March they stated that it was not airborne and primarily something you would get by touching and infected surface and then touching your face. That has since turned out to be wrong. Most people are getting it through the air and sometimes the droplets can spread 27 feet instead of just 6 feet before they fall to the ground or become to few to cause an infection.

That reminds of of something I was telling a friend earlier. We have had the first COVID-19 case in the US way back in January. So where is the science on this virus? The entire world has had Jan, Feb, Mar, April, and it's almost May, and still we do not have definitive answers as to how this virus is spread.

Can the virus stay airborne long enough to be carried along indoor building ventilation systems? What's the infection rate? What is the fatality rate for particular age groups? Are people with the antigen being reinfected???

I'm hearing news articles which suggest it does go airborne for a long distance, more than the two meter rule, and that the fatality rate for healthy people under40 years old is akin to the seasonal flu. So which is it, what is it????

The experts keep admonishing us to "follow the science," well, where is the science??? We seem to be stuck in Feb, where the experts singular brainstorming idea was locking ourselves away in our homes. We are almost in May, and we are still stuck with the experts one and only brainstorm from Feb.

Where are the in depth reports by our news media, concerning the methods being used so we can open a business, and allow customers to engage in commerce, and continue to mitigate infection?
The news media only seems to be concerned with causing arguments, creating strife, friction and angst, and only repeating stories which they breathlessly anticipate will sensationalize or politicize the news cycle that day.

Seems like the news media, and our so called epidemiology experts both want to keep us stuck in February.

The virus is brand new, no one knew anything about it on January 1, 2020 except possibly some in China. It takes time to study and learn about the virus. Had Trump did what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020, we would not be in this mess. TAIWAN successfully beat the virus, by shutting down and restricting all travel into the country on January 20, 2020 before there was even one single confirmed case in the country. Trump waited until late March to institute all the travel bans and restrictions that TAIWAN put in place on January 20, 2020. THE RESULT:

TAIWAN INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 429 infections - 6 deaths

UNITED STATES INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 1,100,000 infections - 64,000 deaths.

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people and is the 12 most densely populated country on earth. TAIWAN has not had a single death from Covid-19 in nearly a month and has only 99 active cases left in the country. By the end of May, the virus will not exist anywhere in TAIWAN. In contrast the United States is still having 30,000+ new infections per day and over 2,000 deaths per day as we go into May.

Just the week before, our medical science was not even sure the disease could be transmitted between humans, and yet you wanted Trump to shut down all travel? Based upon what science, what empirical evidence?

Answer to some of your questions:

Yes, the virus can stay airborne long enough to be carried by indoor building ventilation systems.

The true infection rate is not fully known because testing capacity is still too far behind. We need to be able to do 5 million test per day as a country but the average is only up to about 250,000 test a day currently. We know there are 1,100,000 confirmed infections.

The overall fatality rate based on known infections and known deaths from covid 19 is 6% in the United States. Age is really irrelevant although the young have a much better chance of survival. The fact is, everyone is a host that the virus can use to spread itself and THAT is what is relevant.

People with the antigen are being re-infected and any sort of immunity from complications is temporary and will not last. People infected now and that have survived could become infected again next winter and die. Especially if their lungs were damaged in the first infection.

The virus can remain airborne out to 27 feet. What is not known, is if the virus still has enough concentration at 27 feet to cause an infection at that distance.

The fatality rate for people under age 40 is low, but that is irrelevant to fighting the pandemic, because everyone under 40 can spread the virus to people it can kill. In FACT, young people are the primary means the virus spreads because it does not typically kill a YOUNG HOST. When the virus does not kill its hosts, it uses such hosts as a means to spread DEEPER into the population. The largest challenge in killing this pathogen is YOUNG PEOPLE and their superior ability to spread the virus because they rarely die from it.

Successfully defeating a Pandemic virus can take 1 to 3 years. Two months of lockdown is NOTHING, its just the beginning. Had the United States done what TAIWAN did in early January, we would not have to continue to be in lockdown for years. But we face 1 to 2 years of lockdowns do to the way we let the virus penetrate into the United States population.

Continued lockdowns, testing, contact tracing, and isolation is the only method available until a vaccine is developed. A vaccine will be ready at the earliest in August 2021.

As for the economy, 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home. Another 20% to 25% are in essential services and still have to go into work despite the threat of the virus. The other 30% to 40% of people need to remain at home. Opening non-essential business will just help the virus. Also, Business can't return to normal when the consumer is not buying or using the business. Most people will not be going to movies, concerts, sporting events, in person shopping when it is NOT SAFE. So re-opening these business's is essentially useless because they will not get enough consumers to justify reopening.

This is a tragedy a disaster and the goal now is survival until the pathogen is defeated. Once the pathogen is defeated, the rebuilding can begin.

A lot of the assertions you made sound dubious, I'd have to see some links that support them.

Many states have been doing antigen testing, which throws the mortality rates way down into the 0.xx categories. Some of the people testing positive remember being sick back in December and November. If this anecdotal evidence were true, then even if Trump went completely rogue, and shut down all travel into the USA on Jan 20th, it would have been too late, the infection was already here, months earlier.

I've read other articles, but here is one I just found:

After testing positive for antibodies, Minnesota man thinks he may have had COVID-19 in December

Based on the science of pandemics TAIWAN had more than enough information to shut and restrict travel on January 20, 2020. They did not have a single confirmed case in TAIWAN yet, but through their intelligence services, they already knew the degree to which the pathogen had spread in China and that information ALONE was enough to justify their action on January 20, 2020. The United States had the same information from its intelligence services or if not would have learned it from TAIWAN. The information was there, the question is, what did you do about it. TAIWAN shut down on January 20, 2020 and are now enjoying the benefits of that decision. The United States did virtually nothing for nearly the next two months. TAIWAN is only 100 miles from China, but it takes less than 14 hours to get to the United States from China through air-travel. So every single day that the United States WAITED to do what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020, put the United States further in the HOLE, and allowed the pathogen to penetrate deeper into the population to the DEGREE that locking down the much of the economy would be the only option.

Now look at the situation between TAIWAN and the UNITED STATES:

TAIWAN: 429 infections, 6 deaths. Only 99 of the 429 infections are still active and are declining. By the end of the month TAIWAN will have completely eliminated the virus from the country, probably with only 6 deaths. No one has died from covid-19 in TAIWAN in almost a month.

UNITED STATES: 1,130,000 infections, 65,000 deaths. New infections are increasing by 30,000 per day, and over 2,000 people are dying ever day.


Tell you what, lets look at these numbers between the United States and TAIWAN on June 1, 2020. TAIWAN will probably still only have 6 deaths and the virus will be eliminated. The United States I fear could have as many as 100,000 deaths by then with the virus still spreading.

In TAIWAN's case, you have almost total success in fighting and containing the pathogen. The United States efforts by comparison look like a total failure. The United States is also about to overtake Italy and Switzerland in total infections on a per capita basis. Imagine that, the United States more infected than even ITALY!

 

[U2Edge]

What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.

You're disproving the OP. The original projections were for 1 - 2 millions deaths in the US from the coronavirus. Now that estimate is down to 60K - 120K, because of the lockdowns.

Since the other guy loves "numbers" that means lockdowns are over 90% effective.

If the lockdowns in NYC, for example, are working so wonderfully, why are so many deaths and new infections occurring weeks after the lockdowns went into place? We are just making wild assed guesses that the lockdowns are 90% effective.

Because the virus heavily penetrated New York City to such a degree BEFORE lockdowns were put in place and are there for not having the impact they would have had they been implemented earlier. New York City is densely populated. The success of lockdowns depend on individuals isolating themselves from others and maintaining that isolation. It can take several weeks from the virus to spread in a single household as well. Some people remain asymptomatic, others take weeks to show symptoms. This virus takes time to do its work and works at different rates in different people. Two months ago, there were only 69 infections in the United States and 1 death. Two months make a big difference, and the lockdowns in New York City did not come until the end of March.

If New York City can maintain its lockdown, and most of the individuals in New York City abide by the lockdown, then I think by June 1, 2020 you will start to see a significant decline in daily cases compared to now. Again, this virus does its damage slowly and is very stealthy. It will take time for New York City to rid itself of much of this first wave.

 

[Wapasha]

What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.

You're disproving the OP. The original projections were for 1 - 2 millions deaths in the US from the coronavirus. Now that estimate is down to 60K - 120K, because of the lockdowns.

Since the other guy loves "numbers" that means lockdowns are over 90% effective.

If the lockdowns in NYC, for example, are working so wonderfully, why are so many deaths and new infections occurring weeks after the lockdowns went into place? We are just making wild assed guesses that the lockdowns are 90% effective.

Because the virus heavily penetrated New York City to such a degree BEFORE lockdowns were put in place and are there for not having the impact they would have had they been implemented earlier. New York City is densely populated. The success of lockdowns depend on individuals isolating themselves from others and maintaining that isolation. It can take several weeks from the virus to spread in a single household as well. Some people remain asymptomatic, others take weeks to show symptoms. This virus takes time to do its work and works at different rates in different people. Two months ago, there were only 69 infections in the United States and 1 death. Two months make a big difference, and the lockdowns in New York City did not come until the end of March.

If New York City can maintain its lockdown, and most of the individuals in New York City abide by the lockdown, then I think by June 1, 2020 you will start to see a significant decline in daily cases compared to now. Again, this virus does its damage slowly and is very stealthy. It will take time for New York City to rid itself of much of this first wave.

The virus can take several weeks to infect people, even though they are living in the same home as an infected person? You really need to back up statements like that with some kind of proof.

I do agree, that leaving the subway systems continue to operate surely helped spread the disease, completely wiping out the lockdown protocol.

 

[jc456]

yep and no precedence to do anything based on previous viruses. zip. nadda. they projected that new york would be underwater today, and nope!!! you keep your projections, you be stupid.

You seem to think that projections are garbage. Well tell that to the crew of apollo 13, whose survival was based on NASA's projections of power and fuel and life support.

Projections are real, and the 90% effectiveness of the lockdown (as leaky as it was) was proved.

They are. Thanks for asking

 

[jc456]

What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.

You're disproving the OP. The original projections were for 1 - 2 millions deaths in the US from the coronavirus. Now that estimate is down to 60K - 120K, because of the lockdowns.

Since the other guy loves "numbers" that means lockdowns are over 90% effective.

If the lockdowns in NYC, for example, are working so wonderfully, why are so many deaths and new infections occurring weeks after the lockdowns went into place? We are just making wild assed guesses that the lockdowns are 90% effective.

Naw, they’re useless, they shifted deaths from every category to wuhan flu. Look it up

 

[Pogo]

In early March they stated that it was not airborne and primarily something you would get by touching and infected surface and then touching your face. That has since turned out to be wrong. Most people are getting it through the air and sometimes the droplets can spread 27 feet instead of just 6 feet before they fall to the ground or become to few to cause an infection.

That reminds of of something I was telling a friend earlier. We have had the first COVID-19 case in the US way back in January. So where is the science on this virus? The entire world has had Jan, Feb, Mar, April, and it's almost May, and still we do not have definitive answers as to how this virus is spread.

Can the virus stay airborne long enough to be carried along indoor building ventilation systems? What's the infection rate? What is the fatality rate for particular age groups? Are people with the antigen being reinfected???

I'm hearing news articles which suggest it does go airborne for a long distance, more than the two meter rule, and that the fatality rate for healthy people under40 years old is akin to the seasonal flu. So which is it, what is it????

The experts keep admonishing us to "follow the science," well, where is the science??? We seem to be stuck in Feb, where the experts singular brainstorming idea was locking ourselves away in our homes. We are almost in May, and we are still stuck with the experts one and only brainstorm from Feb.

Where are the in depth reports by our news media, concerning the methods being used so we can open a business, and allow customers to engage in commerce, and continue to mitigate infection?
The news media only seems to be concerned with causing arguments, creating strife, friction and angst, and only repeating stories which they breathlessly anticipate will sensationalize or politicize the news cycle that day.

Seems like the news media, and our so called epidemiology experts both want to keep us stuck in February.

The virus is brand new, no one knew anything about it on January 1, 2020 except possibly some in China. It takes time to study and learn about the virus. Had Trump did what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020, we would not be in this mess. TAIWAN successfully beat the virus, by shutting down and restricting all travel into the country on January 20, 2020 before there was even one single confirmed case in the country. Trump waited until late March to institute all the travel bans and restrictions that TAIWAN put in place on January 20, 2020. THE RESULT:

TAIWAN INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 429 infections - 6 deaths

UNITED STATES INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 1,100,000 infections - 64,000 deaths.

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people and is the 12 most densely populated country on earth. TAIWAN has not had a single death from Covid-19 in nearly a month and has only 99 active cases left in the country. By the end of May, the virus will not exist anywhere in TAIWAN. In contrast the United States is still having 30,000+ new infections per day and over 2,000 deaths per day as we go into May.

Just the week before, our medical science was not even sure the disease could be transmitted between humans, and yet you wanted Trump to shut down all travel? Based upon what science, what empirical evidence?

Answer to some of your questions:

Yes, the virus can stay airborne long enough to be carried by indoor building ventilation systems.

The true infection rate is not fully known because testing capacity is still too far behind. We need to be able to do 5 million test per day as a country but the average is only up to about 250,000 test a day currently. We know there are 1,100,000 confirmed infections.

The overall fatality rate based on known infections and known deaths from covid 19 is 6% in the United States. Age is really irrelevant although the young have a much better chance of survival. The fact is, everyone is a host that the virus can use to spread itself and THAT is what is relevant.

People with the antigen are being re-infected and any sort of immunity from complications is temporary and will not last. People infected now and that have survived could become infected again next winter and die. Especially if their lungs were damaged in the first infection.

The virus can remain airborne out to 27 feet. What is not known, is if the virus still has enough concentration at 27 feet to cause an infection at that distance.

The fatality rate for people under age 40 is low, but that is irrelevant to fighting the pandemic, because everyone under 40 can spread the virus to people it can kill. In FACT, young people are the primary means the virus spreads because it does not typically kill a YOUNG HOST. When the virus does not kill its hosts, it uses such hosts as a means to spread DEEPER into the population. The largest challenge in killing this pathogen is YOUNG PEOPLE and their superior ability to spread the virus because they rarely die from it.

Successfully defeating a Pandemic virus can take 1 to 3 years. Two months of lockdown is NOTHING, its just the beginning. Had the United States done what TAIWAN did in early January, we would not have to continue to be in lockdown for years. But we face 1 to 2 years of lockdowns do to the way we let the virus penetrate into the United States population.

Continued lockdowns, testing, contact tracing, and isolation is the only method available until a vaccine is developed. A vaccine will be ready at the earliest in August 2021.

As for the economy, 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home. Another 20% to 25% are in essential services and still have to go into work despite the threat of the virus. The other 30% to 40% of people need to remain at home. Opening non-essential business will just help the virus. Also, Business can't return to normal when the consumer is not buying or using the business. Most people will not be going to movies, concerts, sporting events, in person shopping when it is NOT SAFE. So re-opening these business's is essentially useless because they will not get enough consumers to justify reopening.

This is a tragedy a disaster and the goal now is survival until the pathogen is defeated. Once the pathogen is defeated, the rebuilding can begin.

A lot of the assertions you made sound dubious, I'd have to see some links that support them.

Many states have been doing antigen testing, which throws the mortality rates way down into the 0.xx categories. Some of the people testing positive remember being sick back in December and November. If this anecdotal evidence were true, then even if Trump went completely rogue, and shut down all travel into the USA on Jan 20th, it would have been too late, the infection was already here, months earlier.

I've read other articles, but here is one I just found:

After testing positive for antibodies, Minnesota man thinks he may have had COVID-19 in December

Based on the science of pandemics TAIWAN had more than enough information to shut and restrict travel on January 20, 2020. They did not have a single confirmed case in TAIWAN yet, but through their intelligence services, they already knew the degree to which the pathogen had spread in China and that information ALONE was enough to justify their action on January 20, 2020. The United States had the same information from its intelligence services or if not would have learned it from TAIWAN. The information was there, the question is, what did you do about it. TAIWAN shut down on January 20, 2020 and are now enjoying the benefits of that decision. The United States did virtually nothing for nearly the next two months. TAIWAN is only 100 miles from China, but it takes less than 14 hours to get to the United States from China through air-travel. So every single day that the United States WAITED to do what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020, put the United States further in the HOLE, and allowed the pathogen to penetrate deeper into the population to the DEGREE that locking down the much of the economy would be the only option.

Now look at the situation between TAIWAN and the UNITED STATES:

TAIWAN: 429 infections, 6 deaths. Only 99 of the 429 infections are still active and are declining. By the end of the month TAIWAN will have completely eliminated the virus from the country, probably with only 6 deaths. No one has died from covid-19 in TAIWAN in almost a month.

UNITED STATES: 1,130,000 infections, 65,000 deaths. New infections are increasing by 30,000 per day, and over 2,000 people are dying ever day.


Tell you what, lets look at these numbers between the United States and TAIWAN on June 1, 2020. TAIWAN will probably still only have 6 deaths and the virus will be eliminated. The United States I fear could have as many as 100,000 deaths by then with the virus still spreading.

In TAIWAN's case, you have almost total success in fighting and containing the pathogen. The United States efforts by comparison look like a total failure. The United States is also about to overtake Italy and Switzerland in total infections on a per capita basis. Imagine that, the United States more infected than even ITALY!

The graph of that looks like this:

compared to:

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

We will put this idiot claim to the test as we re open.

 

[Likkmee]

It looks quite painful

 

[Andylusion]

Redirect Notice

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Exactly. That's been my question the entire time. When I looked at Europe, I didn't see any real effect between states with drastic lock down measures, and those that didn't.

Equally there is now evidence that wearing the masks does not by any statistically significant measure, actually reduce transmission.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The lockdown worked perfectly. That's why democrat governors want to keep the people locked down. The purpose of the lockdown is economic chaos. It was never a fight against a virus. It was always a fight against capitalism.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The lockdown worked perfectly. That's why democrat governors want to keep the people locked down. The purpose of the lockdown is economic chaos. It was never a fight against a virus. It was always a fight against capitalism.

Yes.......and the entire world is in on it.

 

[KGB]

Appears all it did was saddle the taxpayer with a couple of trillion dollars more debt. ...

there’s that. I do believe it helped the medical community out, but that reasoning is fast becoming obsolete with each passing day.

Exactly, and I don't see how locking down States, producing another 10 million or more unemployed, and causing thousands more business to go bankrupt, and States governments themselves going bankrupt, is going to help the nation.

We could probably do almost the same thing in this shelter-in-place lockdown, if we just went out and did our business in public, as long as we observe mitigation practices. Sheltering in-house is nothing but a mitigation practice. It does nothing to cure the virus it does nothing to end virus it does nothing but prolong the effects of the virus

FALSE! lockdowns deprive the virus of its resources or oxygen. The virus is like a fire, it needs oxygen to keep burning. In this case oxygen is people. So when you isolate healthy people from those that have the virus, the virus dies. The virus needs human hosts to survive. Deprive it of human hosts, it dies.

The damage to the economy is minimal given that 37% of the labor force can work from home and another 25% are involved in essential services. The economy will take a hit, but it can be rebuilt. Even Hiroshima that was nuked on August 6, 1945 was fully rebuilt and had a larger population by 1958. If Hiroshima can recover from being nuked, the United States can recover from 30 million people being jobless for a few years.

Tell that to those 30 million people. The last time we had that many out of work was the Great Depression.

They have a new job now. Being paid to stay home by the government. Consider it part of the war effort against coronavirus. This is a pandemic, you can't have normal life during a pandemic. Society switches to survival mode. Once the pandemic is over, you can return to business as usual.

You really don’t understand economics do you? You think just like that, all those people will suddenly go back to work? A lot of those places those people worked shut down permanently.

Let me put it to you bluntly, every city in Japan was firebombed by the United States in World War II, and two cities were NUKED, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But by 1960, Japan had rebuilt all its cities and its economy and even had larger population than it did prior to World War II. Whatever economic devastation the lockdown entails, in pales in comparison to what happened in Japan from World War II. Yet, Japan rebuilt its economy and became even stronger than it has ever been in its history from an economic perspective. The United States economy will be rebuilt when the pathogen is defeated. What can't be done, is bringing back all the people who have physically died of COVID-19.

Let me put it to you bluntly. This virus has nuked & firebombed the ENTIRE PLANET. Not just two cities or one country. There isn't a safe haven to be found. And comparing Imperial Japan to the modern day US is disingenuous to the extreme. The GDPs of the two are not even in the ballpark. We are a superpower unmatched in human history, & that includes the Roman Empire. Imperial Japan wouldn't even register a decimal point in comparison. The Japanese had us to basically rebuild them as did Germany. Who do we have now? Only ourselves & every day, we keep making that harder & harder.

No, this does not rate in comparison to back then because it is far worse now. And no, you can't bring back those who have died, but you can't bring back those who have died due to automobile accidents, cancer, heart disease, violent crime, etc., either.