Lockdowns Did Not Work

[U2Edge]

In early March they stated that it was not airborne and primarily something you would get by touching and infected surface and then touching your face. That has since turned out to be wrong. Most people are getting it through the air and sometimes the droplets can spread 27 feet instead of just 6 feet before they fall to the ground or become to few to cause an infection.

That reminds of of something I was telling a friend earlier. We have had the first COVID-19 case in the US way back in January. So where is the science on this virus? The entire world has had Jan, Feb, Mar, April, and it's almost May, and still we do not have definitive answers as to how this virus is spread.

Can the virus stay airborne long enough to be carried along indoor building ventilation systems? What's the infection rate? What is the fatality rate for particular age groups? Are people with the antigen being reinfected???

I'm hearing news articles which suggest it does go airborne for a long distance, more than the two meter rule, and that the fatality rate for healthy people under40 years old is akin to the seasonal flu. So which is it, what is it????

The experts keep admonishing us to "follow the science," well, where is the science??? We seem to be stuck in Feb, where the experts singular brainstorming idea was locking ourselves away in our homes. We are almost in May, and we are still stuck with the experts one and only brainstorm from Feb.

Where are the in depth reports by our news media, concerning the methods being used so we can open a business, and allow customers to engage in commerce, and continue to mitigate infection?
The news media only seems to be concerned with causing arguments, creating strife, friction and angst, and only repeating stories which they breathlessly anticipate will sensationalize or politicize the news cycle that day.

Seems like the news media, and our so called epidemiology experts both want to keep us stuck in February.

The virus is brand new, no one knew anything about it on January 1, 2020 except possibly some in China. It takes time to study and learn about the virus. Had Trump did what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020, we would not be in this mess. TAIWAN successfully beat the virus, by shutting down and restricting all travel into the country on January 20, 2020 before there was even one single confirmed case in the country. Trump waited until late March to institute all the travel bans and restrictions that TAIWAN put in place on January 20, 2020. THE RESULT:

TAIWAN INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 429 infections - 6 deaths

UNITED STATES INFECTIONS AND DEATHS TO DATE: 1,100,000 infections - 64,000 deaths.

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people and is the 12 most densely populated country on earth. TAIWAN has not had a single death from Covid-19 in nearly a month and has only 99 active cases left in the country. By the end of May, the virus will not exist anywhere in TAIWAN. In contrast the United States is still having 30,000+ new infections per day and over 2,000 deaths per day as we go into May.

Answer to some of your questions:

Yes, the virus can stay airborne long enough to be carried by indoor building ventilation systems.

The true infection rate is not fully known because testing capacity is still too far behind. We need to be able to do 5 million test per day as a country but the average is only up to about 250,000 test a day currently. We know there are 1,100,000 confirmed infections.

The overall fatality rate based on known infections and known deaths from covid 19 is 6% in the United States. Age is really irrelevant although the young have a much better chance of survival. The fact is, everyone is a host that the virus can use to spread itself and THAT is what is relevant.

People with the antigen are being re-infected and any sort of immunity from complications is temporary and will not last. People infected now and that have survived could become infected again next winter and die. Especially if their lungs were damaged in the first infection.

The virus can remain airborne out to 27 feet. What is not known, is if the virus still has enough concentration at 27 feet to cause an infection at that distance.

The fatality rate for people under age 40 is low, but that is irrelevant to fighting the pandemic, because everyone under 40 can spread the virus to people it can kill. In FACT, young people are the primary means the virus spreads because it does not typically kill a YOUNG HOST. When the virus does not kill its hosts, it uses such hosts as a means to spread DEEPER into the population. The largest challenge in killing this pathogen is YOUNG PEOPLE and their superior ability to spread the virus because they rarely die from it.

Successfully defeating a Pandemic virus can take 1 to 3 years. Two months of lockdown is NOTHING, its just the beginning. Had the United States done what TAIWAN did in early January, we would not have to continue to be in lockdown for years. But we face 1 to 2 years of lockdowns do to the way we let the virus penetrate into the United States population.

Continued lockdowns, testing, contact tracing, and isolation is the only method available until a vaccine is developed. A vaccine will be ready at the earliest in August 2021.

As for the economy, 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home. Another 20% to 25% are in essential services and still have to go into work despite the threat of the virus. The other 30% to 40% of people need to remain at home. Opening non-essential business will just help the virus. Also, Business can't return to normal when the consumer is not buying or using the business. Most people will not be going to movies, concerts, sporting events, in person shopping when it is NOT SAFE. So re-opening these business's is essentially useless because they will not get enough consumers to justify reopening.

This is a tragedy a disaster and the goal now is survival until the pathogen is defeated. Once the pathogen is defeated, the rebuilding can begin.

 

[U2Edge]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus.

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.

But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems.

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus.

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.

But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems.

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

 

[U2Edge]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

Not the same. People were free to live and innovate. Sports were abundant and concerts. Family gatherings, etc. You want to shut all that down. That is extreme crazy talk to save those who are fat and unhealthy. Why can they not stay isolated and allow the rest of us to live?

40% of the American population is obese. Then there are those who are not obese who have other conditions. Bottom line, most of the population is NOT SAFE!

People can still live an innovate from home. In fact, 37% of the labor force is able to do their current job without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in "Essential Services". For the 1/3 of the labor force that is not working, they can be paid to stay at home, just like the government paid 1/3 of the labor force in the 1940s to go overseas and kill Germans and Japs.

Lockdown is necessary. The damage done is repairable. Innovation is actually happening more rapidly right now than at any time in the past 20 years. Bars, nightclubs, Church, concerts, sporting events, will have to wait maybe a few years while this passes on. All those things will eventually return though. The economy will evolve and change during this time as well. As a society, we will most likely be better off once we get through this pandemic.

Sigh...

View attachment 329149

Lockdown or not, 40% of population will still be obese, and with other medical conditions. Lockdown wont save them from heart attack, or cancer, or stroke, they are not safe anywhere.

Their chances of survival are improved by not getting infected with COVID-19 which can kill much more rapidly. Plus, the fact that any human can act as a host for the virus and spread is more important factor than its ability to kill certain populations. In fact, young healthy people are the virus's primary way of spreading among the population because in those cases the host usually does not die and can then spread it to a larger number of people. That's why Isolating young people is probably even more important than isolating the old, given that young people are better at spreading the virus.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Protect the vulnerable, develop the herd immunity. Only way out and has been from the beginning.

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

Sweden went against the grain by keeping public life as unrestricted as possible when the coronavirus hit. Now, it says its strategy appears to be working.

www.cnbc.com

Meanwhile we're arresting people in parks and hiding like rats and it is, of course, way more widespread than people thought, even with all of these measures here.

At a cost to Sweden so far of 192 deaths/million population compared to the US at 144/million.
So, are you volunteering to get infected?

Yes and they'll be largely done while we are still hiding and trying to stop something we cannot, while our death toll will likely be spread over a longer time period as we have multiple waves of this.

And spare me the BS leading question/false choice nonsense. I've been working right through this with very few changes in my life and nobody, including Sweden, is advocating not taking reasonable precautions. This is NOT an either or choice between total lockdown and slobbering all over each other at every opportunity while making no effort to slow transmission and protect the vulnerable- and never has been.

And the point is, for those too myopic to realize this, that there are other strategies out there that have been employed, and other nations that are further along the timeline than we are. As those results start to become available it makes sense and is necessary to assess them to determine the best path forward for us.

Which country has the best results in protecting it population from coronavirus? The Answer TAIWAN! Only 6 deaths in TAIWAN. TAIWAN is the gold standard in protecting its population. Trump's failure is measured by the number of deaths Taiwan has vs. the United States.

Sweden has the 9th highest death rate per capita in the world from coronavirus. Why would anyone follow that example for protecting its population. There are only 8 other countries that are dying at a greater rate than Sweden from coronavirus.

Because you're only delaying the inevitable. You can get the virus now or 6 months from now.

Well, then your claiming that its inevitable that 5 million Americans will die from the virus and we should not do anything.

South Korea is a country of 50 million people, but has less than 11,000 infections. Tell me, when will the other 49,989,000 people get the virus?

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people with only 429 infections. Tell me when the other 23,999,571 people will be getting the virus in TAIWAN? Realize TAIWAN often goes several days without any new infections at all. Today, the whole country had ONE new infection.

Did everyone get the 1918 Spanish Flu? NOPE. Did the few cities that practiced social distancing and shutdown business's suffer less death and illness? YEP!

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to a virus and societies fight against it. People can make a difference and save lives through their actions. That was the lesson of the 1918 pandemic!

This is not an either-or scenario.

I know you want to run around with your hair perpetually on fire and think the entire nation should hide until the advent of some medical advance that frees us from bondage.

The rest of us would rather plan an actual way out of this mess. If that is reasonable social distancing, protecting the at risk and managing spikes, more widespread antibody testing, fine and I think that's where we are headed.

No matter what, there will be risks. Everyone acknowledges that there is no safe path and it sucks. States are already running out of money and we're a couple of months in. Thats only going to get worse, not better, until we take a step back and reassess based on what we are learning here and from other countries that have adapted different strategies and adapt an approach here that gets people back to work as soon as possible while protecting the vulnerable to the greatest degree possible.

I don't think you realize how much of the population in the United States is vulnerable. 40% of the U.S. population is obese. Nearly 50% have hypertension or pre-hypertension which is another underlying risk factor.

The lockdown economic damage is minimal compared to the death and destruction that would be caused by letting the virus run rampant. There is NO MIDDLEGROUND! The virus is like a FIRE, it needs oxygen to survive. The oxygen in this case is PEOPLE. You kill this thing by keeping people ISOLATED from each other.

You can lockdown for 3 years or 5 years if needed, the economic damage would be minimal and repairable compared to say being NUKED. Hiroshima was nuked on August 6, 1945, but the city was fully rebuilt by 1958 and had a larger population in 1958 than in 1945.

The economic damage is bad, but its certainly not as bad as what Hiroshima went through. The economic damage can be repaired. But you can't bring someone back to life who has died from covid-19.

In terms of protecting the vulnerable, we have already failed to protect old people in nursing homes. The loss of life in nursing homes has been terrible. You risk killing more vulnerable people by reopening and will only bring another lockdown within a couple of months.

The vast majority of Americans support the lockdown. Most Americans are also not going to suddenly become customers at these non-essential business's you want to reopen. Consumers will not come out to spend until it is SAFE. So opening your business won't solve the economic problem. In fact, it may just put people further in the hole. The cost of opening up but getting no customers for business would be a WORSE situation than staying locked down.

Sure, lets lockdown for 3-5 years.

Totally feasible, and your supporting argument is that a city rebuilt after an atomic bomb detonation.

I honestly have nothing to say to that that wouldn't be so downright dickish that your ancestors would be insulted, so I think I'll pass. Go right ahead and believe that if you'd like.

Look at Germany and Japan in 1945. Nearly every city destroyed, millions dead. Yet, both countries recovered from those tragedies by 1960.

Is the devastation of 3 years under lockdown get you to the place where Germany and Japan were in the Summer of 1945? Not even close.

37% of the labor force is able to work from home. 25% of the labor force is engaged in essential services. So a little over 60% of the labor force is still at work under this lockdown.

Sure, let's truck along with a higher unemployment rate than the great depression for 3-5 years. It'll be fine.

The UN is already warning that hundreds of thousands of children may die THIS YEAR because of the economic downturn. Lets extend to 5 and see how many we can rack up, cause Hiroshima rebuilt. M'kay.

I don't know where you come up with this silly crap, but, again believe it if you like.

Do you even understand what happened to Germany and Japan in World War II? Do you understand where both countries were at in the summer of 1945. If Germany and Japan can survive and rebuild from the state they were in, in 1945, a United States lockdown where 60% of the population is still working will be a picnic by comparison.

You can repair the economic damage. You can't bring someone back to life who has physically died of covid-19. Most Americans understand that and that's why most Americans agree with ME, rather than YOU.

Not the same. People were free to live and innovate. Sports were abundant and concerts. Family gatherings, etc. You want to shut all that down. That is extreme crazy talk to save those who are fat and unhealthy. Why can they not stay isolated and allow the rest of us to live?

40% of the American population is obese. Then there are those who are not obese who have other conditions. Bottom line, most of the population is NOT SAFE!

People can still live an innovate from home. In fact, 37% of the labor force is able to do their current job without leaving their house. Another 25% are engaged in "Essential Services". For the 1/3 of the labor force that is not working, they can be paid to stay at home, just like the government paid 1/3 of the labor force in the 1940s to go overseas and kill Germans and Japs.

Lockdown is necessary. The damage done is repairable. Innovation is actually happening more rapidly right now than at any time in the past 20 years. Bars, nightclubs, Church, concerts, sporting events, will have to wait maybe a few years while this passes on. All those things will eventually return though. The economy will evolve and change during this time as well. As a society, we will most likely be better off once we get through this pandemic.

Sigh...

View attachment 329149

Lockdown or not, 40% of population will still be obese, and with other medical conditions. Lockdown wont save them from heart attack, or cancer, or stroke, they are not safe anywhere.

Their chances of survival are improved by not getting infected with COVID-19 which can kill much more rapidly. Plus, the fact that any human can act as a host for the virus and spread is more important factor than its ability to kill certain populations. In fact, young healthy people are the virus's primary way of spreading among the population because in those cases the host usually does not die and can then spread it to a larger number of people. That's why Isolating young people is probably even more important than isolating the old, given that young people are better at spreading the virus.

Link it. Dr. Ionnidis from Stanford disagrees. Post your credentials so we may compare them to his.

 

[U2Edge]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus.

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.

But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems.

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

Were currently in a lockdown without which the Virus could kill nearly 1% of the U.S. population by August, 2.4 million people. Plus, that is just the first wave. The virus is a serious threat because of its capacity to kill millions of Americans over the next two years WITHOUT lockdowns and mitigation efforts.

 

[meaner gene]

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

The virus is starting to penetrate the heartland of america (and not just the coasts). It's hitting the meat packing businesses that the entire country depends on. The president had to issue an emergency executive order to force those businesses to stay open, but some have up to 1/3rd of their employees testing positive.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus.

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.

But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems.

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

Were currently in a lockdown without which the Virus could kill nearly 1% of the U.S. population by August, 2.4 million people. Plus, that is just the first wave. The virus is a serious threat because of its capacity to kill millions of Americans over the next two years WITHOUT lockdowns and mitigation efforts.

You don't know that. You're guessing the numbers I gave you are actual facts. And if I increase those numbers by 2.5x! Or 160k deaths that is still only 48 per 100k. 85% of the population has mild to no symptoms. Of the deaths, 82% are 65+ and 94% had preexisting conditions.

This is simple math. I am not making any other guesses. And the lockdowns weren't 100%. My wife and I still go to the grocery stores and my kids still hang with their friends. What we reduced was large group gatherings, nothing more.

 

[U2Edge]

So why are the healthy people being ordered to stay at home?

1. You don't know whether you are healthy or not since we have no widespread testing 2. If you have it but are asymptomatic, you can spread to others or even kill grandma 3. Nobody is "ordering" you to stay at home - You can go for a drive, go grocery shopping .. even to the hardware store and 4. Have you injected your daily disinfectant yet?

I do know I am healthy.
I don't have it, so I can't spread it.
If I am not allowed to go to my second home, or to visit my neighbor, or go on a lake... yes, I am ordered to stay at home.
Of course I did. That's why I am healthy.

Only a test can prove you don't have it now or have not had it in the past.

 

[meaner gene]

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

At one point the captain of the Titanic was told that less than 0.0195% of the ship was filled with water too. And we saw what happens when people don't take the danger seriously.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

At one point the captain of the Titanic was told that less than 0.0195% of the ship was filled with water too. And we saw what happens when people don't take the danger seriously.

It was? And you have proof of that? LOL

Nope you're grasping at straws. I am providing succinct math.

 

[U2Edge]

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

The virus is starting to penetrate the heartland of america (and not just the coasts). It's hitting the meat packing businesses that the entire country depends on. The president had to issue an emergency executive order to force those businesses to stay open, but some have up to 1/3rd of their employees testing positive.

Should just close them. Meat is not essential to survival. There are plenty of vegan and vegetarian alternatives as well as fish.

 

[U2Edge]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus.

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.

But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems.

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

Were currently in a lockdown without which the Virus could kill nearly 1% of the U.S. population by August, 2.4 million people. Plus, that is just the first wave. The virus is a serious threat because of its capacity to kill millions of Americans over the next two years WITHOUT lockdowns and mitigation efforts.

You don't know that. You're guessing the numbers I gave you are actual facts. And if I increase those numbers by 2.5x! Or 160k deaths that is still only 48 per 100k. 85% of the population has mild to no symptoms. Of the deaths, 82% are 65+ and 94% had preexisting conditions.

This is simple math. I am not making any other guesses. And the lockdowns weren't 100%. My wife and I still go to the grocery stores and my kids still hang with their friends. What we reduced was large group gatherings, nothing more.

YOU DON'T EITHER. Its the best calculation based on the best SCIENCE we have. If you want to save and protect as many people as possible, you have to plan for worst case situations. There is often much uncertainty when it comes to planning and strategy in a crises. You have to estimate what could happen, and then make a plan based on that.

 

[U2Edge]

Well, you may be good at counting your merino sheep, or herding kangaroos, keep doing it, it keeps your mind away from complex issues.

...and from conspiracy theorist whackadoodles it seems...

Riiiight... when you don't like what you hear, it's CONNNSPIIIIRASYYYY!

View attachment 329458

Yep, just like David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh used to say.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus.

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.

But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems.

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

Were currently in a lockdown without which the Virus could kill nearly 1% of the U.S. population by August, 2.4 million people. Plus, that is just the first wave. The virus is a serious threat because of its capacity to kill millions of Americans over the next two years WITHOUT lockdowns and mitigation efforts.

You don't know that. You're guessing the numbers I gave you are actual facts. And if I increase those numbers by 2.5x! Or 160k deaths that is still only 48 per 100k. 85% of the population has mild to no symptoms. Of the deaths, 82% are 65+ and 94% had preexisting conditions.

This is simple math. I am not making any other guesses. And the lockdowns weren't 100%. My wife and I still go to the grocery stores and my kids still hang with their friends. What we reduced was large group gatherings, nothing more.

YOU DON'T EITHER. Its the best calculation based on the best SCIENCE we have. If you want to save and protect as many people as possible, you have to plan for worst case situations. There is often much uncertainty when it comes to planning and strategy in a crises. You have to estimate what could happen, and then make a plan based on that.

I don't. So I am giving you current mathematical facts only. Not drawing any conclusions. You are. I am not even estimating. I am just saying if the toll increases by 2.5x the number would still be tiny.

Georgia, TN, and CO will be good experiments.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Well, you may be good at counting your merino sheep, or herding kangaroos, keep doing it, it keeps your mind away from complex issues.

...and from conspiracy theorist whackadoodles it seems...

Riiiight... when you don't like what you hear, it's CONNNSPIIIIRASYYYY!

View attachment 329458

Yep, just like David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh used to say.

Cannot base your life on outliers.

 

[meaner gene]

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

At one point the captain of the Titanic was told that less than 0.0195% of the ship was filled with water too. And we saw what happens when people don't take the danger seriously.

It was? And you have proof of that? LOL

Nope you're grasping at straws. I am providing succinct math.

Any problem starts with a single instance. At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.

 

[U2Edge]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus.

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.

But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems.

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

Were currently in a lockdown without which the Virus could kill nearly 1% of the U.S. population by August, 2.4 million people. Plus, that is just the first wave. The virus is a serious threat because of its capacity to kill millions of Americans over the next two years WITHOUT lockdowns and mitigation efforts.

You don't know that. You're guessing the numbers I gave you are actual facts. And if I increase those numbers by 2.5x! Or 160k deaths that is still only 48 per 100k. 85% of the population has mild to no symptoms. Of the deaths, 82% are 65+ and 94% had preexisting conditions.

This is simple math. I am not making any other guesses. And the lockdowns weren't 100%. My wife and I still go to the grocery stores and my kids still hang with their friends. What we reduced was large group gatherings, nothing more.

YOU DON'T EITHER. Its the best calculation based on the best SCIENCE we have. If you want to save and protect as many people as possible, you have to plan for worst case situations. There is often much uncertainty when it comes to planning and strategy in a crises. You have to estimate what could happen, and then make a plan based on that.

I don't. So I am giving you current mathematical facts only. Not drawing any conclusions. You are. I am not even estimating. I am just saying if the toll increases by 2.5x the number would still be tiny.

Georgia, TN, and CO will be good experiments.

What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

At one point the captain of the Titanic was told that less than 0.0195% of the ship was filled with water too. And we saw what happens when people don't take the danger seriously.

It was? And you have proof of that? LOL

Nope you're grasping at straws. I am providing succinct math.

Any problem starts with a single instance. At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.

How many other diseases did we have that fizzled out? We didn't lock the world down over AIDS. COVID is a cold. COVID-19 is a really really really bad cold.

 

[U2Edge]

Well, you may be good at counting your merino sheep, or herding kangaroos, keep doing it, it keeps your mind away from complex issues.

...and from conspiracy theorist whackadoodles it seems...

Riiiight... when you don't like what you hear, it's CONNNSPIIIIRASYYYY!

View attachment 329458

Yep, just like David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh used to say.

Cannot base your life on outliers.

The thinking is the same, and the results are the same..