Libertarians Are The True Political Moderates

[RKMBrown]

FACTS don't muddy waters. They only muddy dogma and destroy ignorance.

Authoritarians harm people. Without Medicare, the elderly in this country would be severely harmed. You right wingers are the authoritarians. YOU would willfully destroy the elderly in this country over an extreme and anti-human ideology. There is not a single brain cell in a right wing mind that allows you folks to put yourself in another person's shoe. You are totally self absorbed.

Medicare is the greatest accomplishment in the history of this nation...BY FAR. Nothing government has done can come close to the success of Medicare.

47 MILLION…the number of Americans for whom Medicare provides comprehensive health care

51 PERCENT…the number of Americans 65 or older who did not have health care before Medicare was passed, while today virtually all elderly Americans have health care thanks to Medicare

30 PERCENT…the number of elderly Americans who lived in poverty before Medicare, a number now reduced to 7.5 PERCENT

72 PERCENT…the number of Americans in a recent poll who said that Medicare is “extremely” or “very” important to their retirement security

Medicare assures health care for seniors who might otherwise find health care inaccessible. It saves our government money. It makes the lives of our seniors better.

Two concepts inspired Medicare. First, seniors require more care than younger Americans. Second, seniors usually live on less income; many survive only on Social Security. This combination renders seniors extremely vulnerable to losing their savings, homes or lives from easily treatable diseases.

And Medicare provides good care. American life expectancy at birth ranks 30th in the world. We remain 30th for the rest of our lives -- until we reach 65. Then, our rank rises until we reach 14th at 80. We can thank the remarkable access to health care provided by Medicare.

Every industrialized nation guarantees health care for seniors. Indeed, we are unhappily distinctive in being the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee care for everyone else, as well. Medicare restores us to a civilized status.

Before Medicare, only 40 percent of nonworking seniors had health insurance, and of those with coverage, private insurance paid for less than 10 percent of their hospital bills. The principle of insuring only the healthy who consume little care and avoiding the sick has always driven our private insurance industry. No insurance company can make money by offering the same comprehensive, affordable coverage to seniors as Medicare, so they don't offer it. Our experience with Medicare Advantage, an effort to privatize parts of Medicare, resulted in our government spending $17 billion more for the same benefits available through Medicare. Our private insurance industry was in no hurry to insure seniors before Medicare started. They are in no hurry now. Medicare revolutionized health care access for seniors.

Why is Medicare expensive? Simply, health care for seniors will always cost more than that of healthier, younger Americans. And costs are rising in every health care system around the world, not just Medicare. The United States is doubly cursed because our costs are rising faster and are already twice as expensive as other countries. Though hard to believe, Medicare is a leader in fighting cost increases. Private insurance industry costs are rising nearly twice as fast as those of Medicare. And when it comes to administrative expenses, private insurance is 10 times higher than Medicare. In fact, if the single payer financing of Medicare were applied to citizens of all ages, we would save $350 billion annually, more than enough to provide comprehensive health care to every American.

Medicare is good for our seniors and good for our country. It provides health care far more affordably and efficiently than our private insurance industry. It saves our country hundreds of billions of dollars in administrative overhead. And if we expand Medicare to cover younger, healthier Americans, we would all get more care at less cost.

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Yeah and your medicare is an unfunded liability that your children have to pay quadruple for than you did. Be proud that you screwed your children over! It's for their own good right?

Ignorance is not an argument. It is an affliction. SS and Medicare are NOT unfunded liabilities. That is what you right wing parrots are taught to mimic.

It's not legal for Social Security to have "unfunded liabilities" since it can only pay as many benefits as it receives in earmarked taxes. Both it and Medicare hospital insurance are prohibited from spending money they haven't collected from specific revenue dedicated to their programs (i.e.: payroll taxes). It is impossible for either to technically be "unfunded", since they cannot legally outspend their funding.


"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

^retard thinks future revenue is a currently funded liability. ROFL

 

[JakeStarkey]

Libertarians cannot agree on what is Libertarianism, so no big deal in the short or long run.

But Parasites can agree on what is Parasitism.......go fig

.

Many are aware that libertarians, so called, wanted to be parasites on the American host.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Libertarians cannot agree on what is Libertarianism, so no big deal in the short or long run.

But what's a Republican these days?

See what I did there?

-Geaux

Yes, I see: you made a foolish statement, but that is nothing new.

 

[thanatos144]

I am for true limited republican government. That means letting each state decide if they want a state of junkies or not.

Tapatalk

Yea, let the fucking drunks who run down our children decide...

So you dont think the people should decide their own government. ..... who is the fascists again ?

Tapatalk

 

[Bfgrn]

Yeah and your medicare is an unfunded liability that your children have to pay quadruple for than you did. Be proud that you screwed your children over! It's for their own good right?

Ignorance is not an argument. It is an affliction. SS and Medicare are NOT unfunded liabilities. That is what you right wing parrots are taught to mimic.

It's not legal for Social Security to have "unfunded liabilities" since it can only pay as many benefits as it receives in earmarked taxes. Both it and Medicare hospital insurance are prohibited from spending money they haven't collected from specific revenue dedicated to their programs (i.e.: payroll taxes). It is impossible for either to technically be "unfunded", since they cannot legally outspend their funding.


"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

^retard thinks future revenue is a currently funded liability. ROFL

Let's hear you plan for the elderly? These are fellow citizens who helped build the nation you claim to care about. Now that they have reached the age where they are no longer part of the work force and can no longer generate a full income, what plan for health insurance do you have? These are also human beings who are at a stage of life where illness becomes much more likely. So they are the highest insurance risk.

Spell it out...

 

[Bfgrn]

I am for true limited republican government. That means letting each state decide if they want a state of junkies or not.

Tapatalk

Yea, let the fucking drunks who run down our children decide...

So you dont think the people should decide their own government. ..... who is the fascists again ?

Tapatalk

Try to guess what 'drug' kills the most citizens by FAR...

Maybe you can ask an adult...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Real Americans want a Rule of Law while Thanato et al want rule of man.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Libertarians cannot agree on what is Libertarianism, so no big deal in the short or long run.

Sure they can. The difficulty you folks have, and it has been explained in this very thread, is that libertariansim isn't first and foremost a political ideology. It's a moral/ethic philosophy involving when it is appropriate to use violence/force/coercion. And the answer is, never initiating it. It's called the NAP.

The problem you folks have with this, is that political ideologies of today are moral less and unethical. You steal, you force your hand on people, you initiate violence and force at almost every turn, and maybe none so much as how you do it economically.

This is why you FAIL to understand the principles that people who associate themselves with libertarianism subscribe to. And it is also the reason most of you can not think past what your party tells you to think, and therefore, the mess we have.

 

[thanatos144]

Yea, let the fucking drunks who run down our children decide...

So you dont think the people should decide their own government. ..... who is the fascists again ?

Tapatalk

Try to guess what 'drug' kills the most citizens by FAR...

Maybe you can ask an adult...

Freedom. Look the word up.


Tapatalk

 

[JakeStarkey]

"is that libertariansim isn't first and foremost a political ideology. It's a moral/ethic philosophy involving when it is appropriate to use violence/force/coercion."

And it remains a failed moral and ethical system. We the People decide in our legislatures and our courts to give the government certain powers of violence, force, and coercion. Libertarianism cannot control violence without evolving into what it dislikes. Tis what is.

Libertarians misdefine liberty and freedom as "I can do what i want, neener neener".

 

[RKMBrown]

"is that libertariansim isn't first and foremost a political ideology. It's a moral/ethic philosophy involving when it is appropriate to use violence/force/coercion."

And it remains a failed moral and ethical system. We the People decide in our legislatures and our courts to give the government certain powers of violence, force, and coercion. Libertarianism cannot control violence without evolving into what it dislikes. Tis what is.

Libertarians misdefine liberty and freedom as "I can do what i want, neener neener".

And you are a ___ ___ lying POS ___ ___ who ____ his ____. Liar!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Libertarians cannot agree on what is Libertarianism, so no big deal in the short or long run.

But Parasites can agree on what is Parasitism.......go fig

.

Many are aware that libertarians, so called, wanted to be parasites on the American host.

How many? 6?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Real Americans want a Rule of Law while Thanato et al want rule of man.

I would love a rule of law, but you don't know what it means, therefore I oppose your interpretation of the phrase.

 

[thanatos144]

Real Americans want a Rule of Law while Thanato et al want rule of man.

I would love a rule of law, but you don't know what it means, therefore I oppose your interpretation of the phrase.

Don't Act like you know shit about what I want. Unlike you i am not to high to think straight and unlike you i am honest about being a conservative republican. All you libertarians are at the core are goldwater ,Wallace wannabes.

Tapatalk

 

[nodoginnafight]

So all the libertarians are denying the platform use to call for open borders? Do any of you even know your party?

Tapatalk

There is a difference between the Libertarian Party platform and the individual beliefs of libertarians. Only idiots would think that party platforms control thoughts.

It's mostly the Libertarians here who try to claim 100% consistency.

But if I am to evaluate the Libertarian Party then I have to use the platform and not the divergent views of some libertarians.

I believe that a very common core belief among Libertarians (and a stated platform plank) is that the free market system is sufficient to protect employees and consumers from unsafe products and unsafe workplaces.

I disagree with that position.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Real Americans want a Rule of Law while Thanato et al want rule of man.

I would love a rule of law, but you don't know what it means, therefore I oppose your interpretation of the phrase.

Don't Act like you know shit about what I want. Unlike you i am not to high to think straight and unlike you i am honest about being a conservative republican. All you libertarians are at the core are goldwater ,Wallace wannabes.

Tapatalk

I think you quoted the wrong guy.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Let's hear you plan for the elderly? These are fellow citizens who helped build the nation you claim to care about. Now that they have reached the age where they are no longer part of the work force and can no longer generate a full income, what plan for health insurance do you have? These are also human beings who are at a stage of life where illness becomes much more likely. So they are the highest insurance risk.

Spell it out...

Who are you to figure yourself smart enough that you can come up with a plan to live someone else's life for them, let alone demand that someone else come up with a better plan?

Spell it out...

 

[Bfgrn]

Let's hear you plan for the elderly? These are fellow citizens who helped build the nation you claim to care about. Now that they have reached the age where they are no longer part of the work force and can no longer generate a full income, what plan for health insurance do you have? These are also human beings who are at a stage of life where illness becomes much more likely. So they are the highest insurance risk.

Spell it out...

Who are you to figure yourself smart enough that you can come up with a plan to live someone else's life for them, let alone demand that someone else come up with a better plan?

Spell it out...

M-E-D-I-C-A-R-E

Medicare is where political posturing runs headlong into historical truth: It is, along with Social Security, the most successful government program—other than its unrivaled military—that the United States has ever created.

And it has delivered for elderly people what President Barack Obama and at least some Democrats say they want to deliver for the rest of us: universal coverage ensuring that people with medical problems will not become impoverished by their illness, with patients offered a guaranteed set of services and a choice of private doctors, hospitals and other practitioners when they need treatment.

“Medicare was a comprehensive—and comprehensible—program, available throughout the country and with a core set of benefits,” says Judith Stein, director of the Center for Medicare Advocacy.

In other words, it delivers the opposite of what the private insurance industry has been providing. And it is doing so with a better track record of controlling costs. Beginning in 1997, the growth in Medicare’s cost per beneficiary has been slower than the cost escalation in coverage delivered by private insurers. Between 2002 and 2006, for example, Medicare’s cost per beneficiary rose 5.4 percent, while per capita costs in private insurance rose 7.7 percent, according to MedPAC, an independent agency charged with advising Congress on Medicare issues.

So why would Congress create a new health insurance system that doesn’t have a Medicare-like public plan for consumers to purchase?

Because conservatives, Democrats among them, never let the facts get in the way of their ideology. The Senate, in particular, seems intent on creating a new private health insurance “cooperative” that has never been tested, has no track record of delivering quality coverage at an affordable price, and which consumers would have to learn to navigate.

Forty-four years ago, on July 30, 1965, President Lyndon Johnson signed the law creating Medicare. In its way, Medicare was a testament to our failure to create a national health insurance system that would cover everyone. With former President Harry Truman looking on, Johnson said the need was great, and urgent. “There are more than 18 million Americans over the age of 65. Most of them have low incomes. Most of them are threatened by illness and medical expenses that they cannot afford.”

At the time, about half of the elderly had no health insurance—they were too old and too likely to get sick, so the private market simply wouldn’t insure them. The elderly were the demographic group most likely to live in poverty, and about one in three older Americans were poor. Blacks and other minorities could not receive treatment in whites-only medical facilities, discrimination that was barred by Medicare.

Now the elderly are among the best-insured Americans, with upward of 95 percent covered by Medicare. The rate of poverty among those 65 and older is under 10 percent. The decline in elderly poverty began with the creation of Social Security—but it accelerated, according to Census Bureau data, only after Medicare coverage began.

“The need for this action is plain,” Johnson said in signing the law in Truman’s hometown of Independence, Mo. “And it is so clear indeed that we marvel not simply at the passage of this bill, but what we marvel at is that it took so many years to pass it.”

Now we marvel again at the long and contentious legislative path that health care revision is taking. We hear the same arguments against a national health insurance plan that were made nearly half a century ago.

But now we have Medicare, and its demonstrated history of delivering exactly what Johnson said it would. And the marvel of our own time is that we ignore this success, while promoting untried alternatives that may well fail.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Talk about letting facts get in the way of one's ideology.

If costing in excess of 10X original projections, rationing, and bankruptcy are your idea of success, I dread to see what failure looks like.

Oh well, looks like 9, 4 and 2 apply here.

Top 10 Reasons Libertarians Aren't Nice To You | Christopher Cantwell

 

[Bfgrn]

Talk about letting facts get in the way of one's ideology.

If costing in excess of 10X original projections, rationing, and bankruptcy are your idea of success, I dread to see what failure looks like.

Oh well, looks like 9, 4 and 2 apply here.

Top 10 Reasons Libertarians Aren't Nice To You | Christopher Cantwell

SO, would you end Medicare?