LIBERALS, You were there with me under Bush where have you gone now?

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Seriously where have all the liberal minded american's dissapeared to?

I remember when bush was president you guys were right there with me complaining about the patriot act, bush's atrocious spending without paying for it, and the general lack of responsibility to the people the administration projected.

Things haven't changed under obama, the government is still doing the same crap you guys were protesting and complaining about with me when bush was president.

Where are you all now?

Why are you silent?

Why do you refuse to speak out anymore?

Spending to save lives is better than spending to kill.

Wealth redistribution spending and unconstitutional spending is wrong no matter what it is used for...

And it is indeed 'right' and proper to fund our military needs, endeavors, and wars

As long as its for defensive military spending fine, but no more USA world police army going around the globe doing crap that isn't our responsibility. They are responsibile to Provide for the General Defense while trying to help promote the general welfare after all.

Does anyone really think all this new government defecit spending over the last several years on foreign aid, foreign military operations, and domestic entitlement programs is "promoting the general welfare"? If you do I'd beg to differ, creating a defecit so large that we have to tax everyone more just to keep up with the interest is in fact disrupting the general welfare of the entire country.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I have already answered this, I disagreed with Afghanistan and much more, but the differences are great as well. Obama is not progressive nor liberal enough for me, but he does represent small change in the right direction.

Lay off the crack....

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Seriously where have all the liberal minded american's dissapeared to?

I remember when bush was president you guys were right there with me complaining about the patriot act, bush's atrocious spending without paying for it, and the general lack of responsibility to the people the administration projected.

Things haven't changed under obama, the government is still doing the same crap you guys were protesting and complaining about with me when bush was president.

Where are you all now?

Why are you silent?

Why do you refuse to speak out anymore?

I feel exactly the same way. I'm still just as much opposed to the invasive foreign occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, the total rejection of the rule of law in favor of unchecked executive authority, Orwellian imprisonment without trial, surveillance without warrants, bailouts and handouts to massive corporations at the expense of the average American being fucked over, acquiescence to lobbyists and industry, failure to investigate or prosecute felonies for political reasons, privatization of war and health care, and general secrecy and dishonesty in the way government functions without proper oversight or transparency to the people it is intended to serve.

All of those things have continued unabated under Obama, some have gotten a little better, some have gotten a little worse, but they're all vital issues of our times that are as repugnant in 2010 as they were in 2007 or 2003. I judge deeds and actions based on their merits, not the people who do them, as should any remotely honest or consistent person.

I think the answer is that those who pretended to oppose Bush policies then did a 180 when Obama was elected weren't actually liberals at all, they were just partisan Democrats. In the same way those who had no problem with Bush policies then suddenly came out against them when Obama was elected aren't conservatives at all, they were just partisan Republicans. Liberal and conservative are based on ideology and values, those who subscribe to who is doing something rather than what they're doing have no ideology or values they just mindlessly root for their "team."

good post

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's seems like the biggest complaint is spending. In particular, HRC and the stimulus. Obama campaigned on these things. He said he was going to pass the stimulus right away. He said he was going to reform healthcare. Anyone in their right mind knew this was going to cost money. And he was elected. How can you expect the left to join the chorus against what they voted for?

He campaigned on doing things in a new way, post partisan and transparent, destroying the old washington tax & spend culture.


He renegged on that 100%.

The fact that the stimulous turned into a debacle and healthcare is loaded with perks for cronies can be laid directly at his feet.


That is how he lost the independants.

Democrats back him the same as always and GoP oppose him the same as always, but the reason his poll numbers are where they are is indepenants have left him.

Yup it is how he specifically lost many independants but its not Obama, he is just the president. There is an entire congress full of people who are still screwing us over just like they have been doing for the last decade.

If some of you like obama and dont want to speak out against him I get that, but to defend the congress, its unbalanced defecit budgets, this spending, and these bills they pass without reading is just ludicris.

 

[Flopper]

Seriously where have all the liberal minded american's dissapeared to?

I remember when bush was president you guys were right there with me complaining about the patriot act, bush's atrocious spending without paying for it, and the general lack of responsibility to the people the administration projected.

Things haven't changed under obama, the government is still doing the same crap you guys were protesting and complaining about with me when bush was president.

Where are you all now?

Why are you silent?

Why do you refuse to speak out anymore?

Whenever a party gets control of the White House and Congress, supporters become much less vocal. I guess they figure they won the war and they are retiring to the sidelines. The reverse happens to the losing party. That's why the loser almost always gains seats at the midterm elections.

 

[uscitizen]

I believe I have complained about Obama not pulling out of Iraq on here.
On the patriot act I just like to laugh at ex bushies when they complain about it.

I think I posted about the requested additional Afganistan spending request. The military should cut spending somewhere else for it and if it does get approved it should be added to the budget not off budget like Bush did.

Most of the time when I complain about any of those items on the list I just get Boosh is not president anymore.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Seriously where have all the liberal minded american's dissapeared to?

I remember when bush was president you guys were right there with me complaining about the patriot act, bush's atrocious spending without paying for it, and the general lack of responsibility to the people the administration projected.

Things haven't changed under obama, the government is still doing the same crap you guys were protesting and complaining about with me when bush was president.

Where are you all now?

Why are you silent?

Why do you refuse to speak out anymore?

Here's my .02

It's seems like the biggest complaint is spending. In particular, HRC and the stimulus. Obama campaigned on these things. He said he was going to pass the stimulus right away. He said he was going to reform healthcare. Anyone in their right mind knew this was going to cost money. And he was elected. How can you expect the left to join the chorus against what they voted for?

Is he a hypocrite on the Patriot Act and the GWOT? He certainly is on the Patriot Act. Ain't that a bitch and a prediction come true. I remember a whole bunch of people warning that once you give the gov't that kind of power they wont give it up and they didn't ... what a shock.

And the GWOT ... the man said he was going to amp up A-Stan. In Iraq he's is approaching a point where he is going to have to shit or get off the pot. We were told that by this summer combat troops would be gone. I'm betting he just shuffles the deck or paints the horse a different color and if he does I will hammer him for it.

But you want to know why the liberals haven't joined you against the administration?

I know that your point is that people are giving a pass to Obama because he's "their guy" and I agree that there will always be a lot of sentiment for "their guy." It's a reality that wont change ... Bush still had like 20 something percent of the country thinking he was doing a good job when he left office.

But other than voting for things like HRC and the stimulus which the right vehemently opposed ... even before day one of Obama's presidency the right made it clear they would oppose anything the administration did and they followed up on it. From day one it's been non-stop outrage after outrage. Frankly, I don't blame them for not joining up with something like the tea party or joining the noise machine because they view it as disingenuous and partisan.

They may speak silently at the voting booth but I wouldn't expect to see many changes in the ranks at places like USMB.

It's seems like the biggest complaint is spending.

My biggest complaint is the drug war is still going on, but Obama never promised to end that so... guess I'm shit out of luck.

In particular, HRC and the stimulus. Obama campaigned on these things. He said he was going to pass the stimulus right away. He said he was going to reform healthcare.

I'm not to fond of the stimulus but I feel you on that one. He DID campaign on that idea. Health care is different. Nobody knew how much of a confused monstrosity that bill would be. It was so poorly put together it actually did shock me.


How can you expect the left to join the chorus against what they voted for?

I voted for him. Then again I'm not much of a leftist. I was a supportive critic during the campaign, now I'm just a critic. When you know you're voting lesser of two evils, you should be prepared for the evil.

 

[uscitizen]

Yep I voted against McCain/Palin. Heck even those who voted for him are wanting McCain to go away.

 

[George Costanza]

Seriously where have all the liberal minded american's dissapeared to?

I remember when bush was president you guys were right there with me complaining about the patriot act, bush's atrocious spending without paying for it, and the general lack of responsibility to the people the administration projected.

Things haven't changed under obama, the government is still doing the same crap you guys were protesting and complaining about with me when bush was president.

Where are you all now?

Why are you silent?

Why do you refuse to speak out anymore?

I am as upset with President Obama as I was with Bush when it comes to committing our troops to overseas wild goose chases. Bush should never have sent our boys over there. Obama should bring them all home - ALL of them.

We aren't the World Police. No one is attacking us. Our troops have no business whatsoever mucking around the Middle East, trying to sort the bad guys from the civilians and getting themselves killed in the process.

 

[oreo]

I have already answered this, I disagreed with Afghanistan and much more, but the differences are great as well. Obama is not progressive nor liberal enough for me, but he does represent small change in the right direction.

Obama is not "liberal" enough for you-----

Be specific on what other "liberal" policies you would like to see him shove down our throats?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I believe I have complained about Obama not pulling out of Iraq on here.
On the patriot act I just like to laugh at ex bushies when they complain about it.

I think I posted about the requested additional Afganistan spending request. The military should cut spending somewhere else for it and if it does get approved it should be added to the budget not off budget like Bush did.

Most of the time when I complain about any of those items on the list I just get Boosh is not president anymore.

Why do you laugh at those who finally woke up to the truth about the patriot act? They are finally agreeing with you and you should embrace them instead of making fun of them....unless you only disagreed with the patriot act on pure political partisan motives, then your laughing at them makes sense.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What are you talking about? Plenty of Liberals including myself are unhappy about those things the Obama Administration is doing. I, myself, have a good list of things I disagree with this Administration on.

This. Support for Obama is not nearly as lock step as support for Bush was from the Right Wing Radio crowd. He's already done a lot of stuff I'd have rather he didn't. At this point I'm hoping the GOP can run a sane alternative to vote for in 2012, or that the GOP will gain Congressional Control and create a scenario like Clinton/Gingrich.

 

[Bfgrn]

I complained about starting a war with Iraq (I supported Afghanistan)
I complained about the US engaging in torture
I complained about the horrific response to Katrina
I complained about the collapsed economy
I complained about the reduction in environmental protections

No...its not the same

Ummm.. technically.... there was not a war with either, it is military action authorized by congress and ordered by the President... and the 'war' with Iraq was started in the very early 90's, and was still in effect with the terms of cease-fire being violated... W did not 'start' the 'war'

There is no US ordered torture, just because YOU want something deemed as torture... and individual actions of torture are taken care of thru the legal system available

You complained about the horrible way the local governments handled the evacuation?? Great..

Many people complained about W's poor spending and economic policies... and did you complain when people such as Barney Frank were taking actions leading to the floundering economy??

Show a reduction in environmental standards issued by the government please...

And yes... it is the 'same' or hypocrisy how many Obamabots and left wingers will indeed stop their objections with Obama in charge, even though the practices they chanted against in their Bush Derangement Syndrome have remained under Obama

WOW DD, you prove beyond a doubt that RFK Jr is correct: "Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"

But even worse, you prove George Orwell was correct: "The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."

Iraq was and is a WAR, ask any brave soldier that fought there. Your pea brain attempt to diminish and white wash it is ignorant.

'There is no US ordered torture'..........REALLY??? Do you live under your trailer?

Cheney admits authorizing detainee's torture

On Sunday, in an exclusive interview with Jonathan Karl of ABC News' "This Week," Cheney proclaimed his love of torture, derided the Obama administration for outlawing the practice, and admitted that the Bush White House ordered Justice Department attorneys to fix the law around the administration's policy interests.

"I was a big supporter of waterboarding," Cheney told Karl, as if he were issuing a challenge to officials in the current administration, including President Barack Obama, who said flatly last year that waterboarding is torture, to take action against him. "I was a big supporter of the enhanced interrogation techniques..."

The former vice president's declaration closely follows admissions he made in December 2008, about a month before the Bush administration exited the White House, when he said he personally authorized the torture of 33 suspected terrorist detainees and approved the waterboarding of three so-called “high-value” prisoners.

“I signed off on it; others did, as well, too,” Cheney said in an interview with the right-wing Washington Times about the waterboarding, a drowning technique where a person is strapped to a board, his face covered with a cloth and then water is poured over it. It is a torture technique dating back at least to the Spanish Inquisition.

The US has long treated waterboarding as a war crime and has prosecuted Japanese soldiers for using it against US troops during World War II. And Ronald Reagan's Justice Department prosecuted a Texas sheriff and three deputies for using the practice to get confessions.

Cheney Admits to War Crimes

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Show a reduction in environmental standards issued by the government please...'

Bush's sorry environmental record

by Former EPA Administrator Russell Train and former New Hampshire State Senator Rick Russman, both REP members

published September 23, 2004 in the Concord (NH) Monitor

Except in a few instances, the environmental policies of the Bush administration are a disgrace.

As lifelong Republicans who have worked for decades to protect and restore clean air and clean water, we find the turning back of the environmental clock by this administration profoundly disturbing. And New Hampshire suffers from these backward policies.

Republican President Richard Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency. In his 1970 State of the Union message, he called the environmental cause "as fundamental as life itself." With bipartisan leadership in Congress, Nixon initiated many of the environmental protections we enjoy today.

Republican President George H.W. Bush signed the Clean Air Act of 1990, one of the most protective environmental statutes.

Unfortunately, President George W. Bush's administration is reversing course from 30 years of bipartisan leadership to protect our health and environment.

The administration's policies to promote energy, mining and timber interests with little regard for the interests of common citizens represent a throwback to an era of exploitation. The administration's assault on the environment has increased pollution and health threats in New Hampshire, according to a report by Environment2004.

The administration weakened the Clean Air Act to allow aging power plants to continue spewing sulfur, mercury and other contaminants into the skies. These end up in New Hampshire's air and waters. This pollution from Midwestern power plants and other sources forms smog that threatens the 65,000 New Hampshire residents who suffer from asthma. It falls as acid rain that damages New Hampshire's forests and waters.

Mercury pollution has forced New Hampshire to establish a fish consumption advisory that covers all its lakes and rivers. Infants, children, pregnant women and women of child-bearing age are particularly vulnerable to mercury. Mercury affects a child's ability to learn, most notably impairing memory, attention and fine motor function.

Bush's sorry environmental record, Russell Train and Rick Russman

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Patriot Act,Raising Debt Limits,Stimulus Packages,Bailouts,Recess Appointments,Rampant Corruption,Constant War,and even more rounds of Golf for the Prez.

Yea there's been soo much "Change." Yikes! What a scam.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Oh i forgot about the Left's constant screeching about those "Evil Oil Companies." Their guy just ended the 20yr ban on Offshore Oil Drilling yet you haven't heard a peep out of those same Leftist nutters about those "Evil Oil Companies." Where did they all go? My God,could you imagine if it were a Republican President who lifted this 20yr ban? I seriously doubt that the Leftist nutters over at CNN,NBC,and the NY Times would be this silent. In my opinion you can't be any more dishonest & hypocritical than your average Leftist Democrat.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Oh i forgot about the Left's constant screeching about those "Evil Oil Companies." Their guy just ended the 20yr ban on Offshore Oil Drilling yet you haven't heard a peep out of those same Leftist nutters about those "Evil Oil Companies." Where did they all go? My God,could you imagine if it were a Republican President who lifted this 20yr ban? I seriously doubt that the Leftist nutters over at CNN,NBC,and the NY Times would be this silent. In my opinion you can't be any more dishonest & hypocritical than your average Leftist Democrat.

Excellent point there. I do remember liberals giving bush a big stink over wanting to open up offshore drilling

Bush pushes offshore drilling - White House- msnbc.com


Well at least they see the light now, right .

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea how's that massive BP explosion and oil spill working out for the dishonest Hopey Changeys? How many are dead? How much catastrophic damage has been done to the Gulf's ecology? My God,if these Hopey Changeys had any credibility they would be calling for BP's head today. Yet not a peep out of them about those "Evil Oil Companies." These people should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Douger]

Because it no longer makes any difference.
I voted with my feet. Those who didn't are fucked, unless they're multi millionaires.
No. 5 million aint enough.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

BP Execs should be arrested. The Hopey Changeys should be screaming for this today. Yet they are instead completely silent. What did happen to all their "Evil Oil Company" screeching? What a bunch of frauds.

 

[Foxfyre]

This. Support for Obama is not nearly as lock step as support for Bush was from the Right Wing Radio crowd. He's already done a lot of stuff I'd have rather he didn't. At this point I'm hoping the GOP can run a sane alternative to vote for in 2012, or that the GOP will gain Congressional Control and create a scenario like Clinton/Gingrich.

Perhaps it is a matter of perspective? It looks to those on the right that most of those on the left are blindly supporting President Obama and defending his more horrendous policies and statements when they would not have tolerated anything even remotely like that from President Bush.

Most of those on the right at the very least:

1. Opposed the Medicare prescription bill President Bush supported.

2. I'm guessing we were widely split in approval of the invasion of Iraq, but setting that aside, once we were there we supported our troops to the fullest and resented any manner of "P C" policies that pulled our punches and prolonged the process while putting our troops at greater risk.

3. I'm guess we have been widely split on concepts of nation building in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

4. We opposed President Bush's energy policies and his embrace of AGW as an international concern.

5. We opposed President Bush's immigration policies, most particularly his intent to grant amnesty to illegals already here.

6. President Bush was not an advocate of ear marks and other pork barrel spending, but we thought him a wimp in caving in again and again to a Congress from 2002 through 2006that was spending like there was no tomorrow. Evenso, that Congress were total amateurs when it came to irresponsible spending that has occurred under Democratic control and now the Obama administration.

7. We were widely split on No Child Left Behind as to the effectiveness of that program, and in fact produced a mixed bag of positives and negatives.

8. We were widely split on some provisions of the Patriot Act, but in fairness to the President, he did not object to the indefensible portions of that being amended and corrected over the years. And he deserves kudos for policies that have kept us free from any additional mass terrorist attacks.

9. And he deserves kudos for some good financial policies that produced some very good results for several years.

10. And he deserves kudos for not running roughshod over the people or turning a deaf ear to them just to do whatever it was he wanted to do.

So far there isn't much President Obama has come up with that appeals to those on the right. And he doesn't seem interested in fixing any of the problems he inherited from President Bush but rather seems to have an entirely different agenda.

But again, some of that is almost certainly a matter of ideological perspective.