Liberals sue to stop children from learning about God

[LibertyKid]

Because the disciples were commanded by Jesus to spread the word about Him.

Jesus will be the ruler of ALL nations, that means the gospel must be spread to all nations. What are nations? People with their own culture. God believes mankind should have different cultures and nations.

But you said that only the bible should be taught and to teach that other religions should be taught to be false. You do realize that religion, has throughout history, shaped culture. Do you not see where this leads.

In order for them to be distinct from each other they should not destroy each other. They should preserve their culture and also worship God.

What customs then should muslims maintain if they are Christian?

 

[Arlette]

Yeah, and it doesn’t say what you think it says

Really? What do you think the Establishment clause means?

 

[Foxfyre]

Of course children should be taught about God. Yet these liberals want to deny our children the opportunity to learn about God. Our Founding Fathers must be turning over in their graves.

---A group of Oklahoma parents of public school students, teachers and ministers filed a lawsuit Thursday seeking to stop the state's top education official from forcing schools to incorporate the Bible into lesson plans for students in grades 5 through 12.---

MSN

Well in this case I think the parents are probably right. Given how many different variations there are on Biblical interpretations and beliefs re baptism, communion/the Eucharist, the Law, etc., no public school curriculum could be designed to accommodate all that. That is vastly different than a parochial school in which those enrolling their children will know that the core beliefs of a particular religious group will be promoted. And if ONLY the JudeoChristian Bible is included in public school curriculum, that would be way too close to the appearance of the state establishing a religion.

It also opens the door for unscrupulous educators to have opportunity to erode the children's faith in their Bible stories etc.

What the policy should be is that the school does not emphasize or promote theological content as standard curriculum, but neither does the school interfere in any way with the student's expression/exercise of their faith in the school environment. If the students want to offer a prayer in an appropriate setting that should be allowed. Students should be allowed to appropriately acknowledge and celebrate Christmas and Easter and Chanukah and other traditional holidays and festivals. If a child wants to use a symbol or expression of his/her religious faith as show and tell, that should not be forbidden. Certainly popular religious classical music should be allowed in school concerts especially seasonal not only for its historical value but because it is just wonderful whether or not you believe the lyrics.

In addition to the so-called 'Big Bang Theory', evolution and other theories of the origins and development of the universe and the life within it, children should not be disallowed to express their belief in creationism or intelligent design. The teacher should not disparage those beliefs but should explain that scientific theory though different is still important to know and they will have it on their test.

 

[theHawk]

Amendment I​

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

In Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971), the Court established the Lemon test to evaluate laws potentially violating the establishment clause. This test required a statute to:

1. Have a secular purpose
2. Neither advance nor inhibit religion
3. Not result in excessive government entanglement with religion

The test was later modified in Agostini v. Felton (1997), combining the last two prongs.

Justice Sandra Day O’Connor introduced the endorsement test in Lynch v. Donnelly (1984), proposing that government actions should not endorse or disapprove of religion. This test aimed to ensure that citizens would not feel marginalized due to governmental acts.

The neutrality test emerged from cases involving government funds and religious groups. In Zelman v. Simmons-Harris (2002), Ohio’s school voucher program was deemed constitutionally permissible as it was neutral concerning religion.

What law is Congress trying to pass?

 

[theHawk]

What customs then should muslims maintain if they are Christian?

There are Christians in the Middle East, former Muslims.

They can keep customs so long as they don’t contradict Christian teaching. Simple as that.

 

[Captain Caveman]

They want to learn about fake entities, do it at home.

Like Santa.

 

[Vrenn]

What law is Congress trying to pass?

You must have a reading retention. It's already been passed and as far as I know congress doesn't have anything on the floor to attempt to change things. Facts remain, as long as the public schools are public then they cannot favor one religion over another.

 

[Skylar]

Again you repeat yourself because you have no argument.

If faith is evidence of objective fact, then why isn't the faith of other people, who believe in another god, also evidence of objective fact? Logically, that makes no sense. Either both would objective evidence or neither would be.

Faith and logic don't mesh well. As personal evidence, faith is powerful and I respect it immensely. As logic, it falls apart, being a self contradictory mess. Faith isn't about logic. Faith is about belief.

But why should your belief be the basis of our laws?

I already said I approve them teaching a little about other religions, to show how they are false. It is still up to each individual to decide what to believe. You are against that because it challenges your gods, the state, atheism, and paganism.

That's not the argument I'm making. I'm saying that the process you're using: faith, prayer, scripture..... by your own standards, almost always produce self delusional belief in false gods.

Unless you believe that Zeus and Jesus are hanging out together on Mt. Olympus. Or Amaterasu, Yahweh, Allah, Ahura Mazda and Vishnu regularly met for coffee.

Your standards require that all of other faiths be false gods and delusional faith. Despite them using the exact same process that you're using.

How is that logical? If faith, prayer, and scripture, by your own standards almost always produce self delusion and belief in false gods, why then would your faith, your prayer and your scripture be exempt?

Logically, its far more likely that you're among the deluded than that you're the exception to the rule. Which brings back to the question of why we should use YOUR belief as the basis of our laws and FORCE people to abide it?

Why are you so in favor of banning the Bible from schools? It is by far the most influential book in human history. Funny how you lefties claim the right is “banning” books and having book burning parties and yet here you are supporting banning the Bible.

I have no problem with a student bringing a bible to school. Nor are there any prohibitions against exactly that.

I have a big problem with the bible being FORCED onto children by the State....with FORCED bible study in public schools. This is what Oklahoma is trying to implement.

That's wrong.

 

[Skylar]

Gay marriage has nothing to do with religion. Nothing at all.

Marriage in this country doesn't require religion. At all. Not a single state in the union REQUIRES religious ceremonies, religious participation, or religious observance to be married.

So why would we exclude gays from marriage? It makes no sense. It harms no one, and helps millions of people, including millions of children.

I think most opposition of gay marriage is about Christian Nationalism. Most white conservative Christians are perfectly content to allow gay people to exist....

....as long as LGBTQ folks are made to understand that they are less. That they and their unions are abominations, abhorrent, invalid.

But if they can marry, if they have raise families, if they have the same rights as everyone else, then they aren't being made to understand that they are less. They are being treated as equals.

And this is what opponents of gay marriage can't abide. Opposition to gay marriage is about putting gay people in their place. And denying them equality so they understand that they are less.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Of course children should be taught about God. Yet these liberals want to deny our children the opportunity to learn about God. Our Founding Fathers must be turning over in their graves.

---A group of Oklahoma parents of public school students, teachers and ministers filed a lawsuit Thursday seeking to stop the state's top education official from forcing schools to incorporate the Bible into lesson plans for students in grades 5 through 12.---

MSN

Teaching Religion has no place in any publicly funded institution.

Believe what you want to believe, but you have no right to force your beliefs on other people - and definitely no right to do so using taxpayer money.

 

[Hum Dinger]

What law is Congress trying to pass?

Taxpayer money is collected according to the law.

By allowing the use of taxpayer's money to promote any religion, they are effectively respecting that religion.

 

[initforme]

There are Christians in the Middle East, former Muslims.

They can keep customs so long as they don’t contradict Christian teaching. Simple as that.

Seems authoritarian. Like as a citizen you must adhere to only these customs. What makes america great is we all can adhere to laws but can live by our own customs and traditions.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Marriage in this country doesn't require religion. At all. Not a single state in the union REQUIRES religious ceremonies, religious participation, or religious observance to be married.

So why would we exclude gays from marriage? It makes no sense. It harms no one, and helps millions of people, including millions of children.

I think most opposition of gay marriage is about Christian Nationalism. Most white conservative Christians are perfectly content to allow gay people to exist....

....as long as LGBTQ folks are made to understand that they are less. That they and their unions are abominations, abhorrent, invalid.

But if they can marry, if they have raise families, if they have the same rights as everyone else, then they aren't being made to understand that they are less. They are being treated as equals.

And this is what opponents of gay marriage can't abide. Opposition to gay marriage is about putting gay people in their place. And denying them equality so they understand that they are less.

Most MAGGOTs aren't intelligent enough to distinguish between marriage as a legal institution, a religious sacrament and a personal commitment.

Just saying the word 'Marriage' and they're likely to go into a tizzy.

 

[White 6]

Wrong. No freedom from religion. That would be an official government endorsement of the religion of atheism.
Religion is essentially speech.
You’re a Marxist dupe.

"Religion is essentially speech."
So, is people rejecting having it forced on the by the government in public school. Freedom of Religion definitely include the freedom to choose not to participate in religion in public schools.

 

[Frankenstein]

I take it, you do not approve of freedom of religion, knowing it also protect for freedom from religion.
Did you private school your kids, since schools could not force bible classes or organized religion in the public schools?

No it most certainly does not, I can walk right up to you and talk about Jesus your only freedom or recourse is to walk away

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Bingo!

That is exactly right, I don’t get to decide what is right and wrong. That is paganism.

God decides what is right and wrong.

Which god?

 

[White 6]

No it most certainly does not, I can walk right up to you and talk about Jesus your only freedom or recourse is to walk away

Talk to me? Of course. That is different than a public elementary school teacher in a class of child kids that cannot get up and walk away without possibly retribution. After all, you have no way to take retribution on me.

 

[Arlette]

Seems authoritarian. Like as a citizen you must adhere to only these customs. What makes america great is we all can adhere to laws but can live by our own customs and traditions.

When the Hawk goes on a diet, nobody gets a cookie.

 

[Frankenstein]

Which god?

The one True God, who sent his only;y Son to die for you

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

The one True God, who sent his only;y Son to die for you

Which god?