Letting sixteen year olds vote is a foot in the door to end childhood early - or eliminate it altogether

[bigrebnc1775]

No one paying attention can miss that Democrats are pushing for childhood, as we know it, to end early, if not be abolished.

By "childhood," I mean the legal and societal protections have been afforded for young people prior to adulthood. Throughout history, there have been protections for children, if not provided by law, provided by parents. This has been universal in every known society existing or in the past.

Except . . . in socialist dictatorships.

In socialist dictatorships, such as Nazi German, Communist China, and the Soviet Union, and smaller socialist dictatorships, children were openly called "property of the state." Children had the same rights as adults, because adults had no rights at all. Children were also "fair game" for conscription and combat. Children were expected to fulfill the same political obligations, such as attending meetings and rallies, reporting dissent to authorities, and reciting the approved socialist slogans.

In the U.S., the moves to end childhood are more subtle and ad hoc, but all leading to the same goal. If children get to vote at sixteen, lowering the age of consent is an obvious next step. So is allowing them to make all medical decisions for themselves. The proponents of lower voting age may not have thought of this, but they will also soon be allowed to sign contracts that bind them as adults.

Meanwhile for children under sixteen, protections will also be eroded. Those protections have come from law and from parental oversight. When it comes to transgender "treatment," government, in the forms of schools and CPS, are already moving to take this oversight away from parents. Not by passing a law cutting parents out of the process, because that would never - ever - be passed by elected officials. The aim is to normalize gender dysphoria, which is a recognized mental disorder, then "identify" as many confused kids as transgender as they can.

Again the aim is children with the same rights as adults, which they achieve through taking rights from adults and giving rights to children. They will say that a ten year old can decide to start hormone treatments after being identified as transgender by a school counselor, but they will never say that a seventeen year old can decide to carry a pistol when going home from her job at McDonalds after dark. The former, they want for everyone from birth to death, and the latter they want for no one.

Transgender Porn is a growth industry.

If nothing else, transgender porn is becoming a hot seller. GameLink, an online porn provider, says its sales of transgender porn have increased 14 percent in the past year, and now make up 10 percent of its overall revenue.

Perhaps even more surprising than the numbers is who’s watching it. California and New York were the top two states—accounting for 17.6 and 7.3 percent of transgender porn sales on GameLink last year. Not a big surprise, given the generally liberal leanings of both states. And Illinois’ entry at No. 3—with 5.6 percent—may not surprise some people.

A large group of confused and depressed boys who think they can achieve happiness through medical and surgical treatment to resemble girls clearly has a lot of appeal to many progressives. For those who find that idea appealing, starting the treatments at an early age is vital, so that the boys don't change their minds, and so that puberty doesn't make it more difficult for them to achieve the desired (by progressives) feminine look on a male body.

Absent that motivation, the actions of transactivists toward children in the U.S. would make no sense at all.

If you have one adult right you must have them all. And I mean MUST have them all

 

[Seymour Flops]

So there is no connection between authoritarian dictators and American progressives? Glad we could clear that up.

You are only clearing up your own misunderstanding. I never said there was any connection.

The fact that you don't think it matters what kind of government is telling on how strong this connection really is....

The connection that I never talked about in the first place?

No one has a 1 to 1 tax relationship with the government. Stop being silly.

Of course not. There are the net payers and the net takers. Progressive politicians get votes from the net takers by promising to allow them to take more.

No he was the authoritarian side of the equation.

How is Trump authoritarian?

Predictive swipe texting turned world into whittle.

I suggest you turn off that feature.

The rest of the developed world produces better educational and Healthcare outcomes for its citizens than we do.

Prove that any country in the developed world that has more than two million migrants crossing its border in a year produces better educational and healthcare outcomes for its citizens we do.

Also explain why you and those more than two million did not go to one of those countries instead of immigrating here.

And? Progressives voted against it. Like I said, not every Democrat is a progressive.

Let's see if progressive Senators filibuster it.

 

[Curried Goats]

You are only clearing up your own misunderstanding. I never said there was any connection.

Good. Glad that's clear.

The connection that I never talked about in the first place?

You spoke about the similarities and now are hiding behind the word connection. You did speak about the similarities but have yet to produce any similarities to authoritarian governments beyond the incredibly non specific similarity of "growing government", whatever the fuck that means...

Of course not. There are the net payers and the net takers. Progressive politicians get votes from the net takers by promising to allow them to take more.

Can you prove this claim?

How is Trump authoritarian?

How is trying to stay in power after losing an election authoritarian? I'll let you try and piece that together.

I suggest you turn off that feature.

Naw, I don't care all that much. It's easily corrected and cleared up.

Prove that any country in the developed world that has more than two million migrants crossing its border in a year produces better educational and healthcare outcomes for its citizens we do.

No.

I don't see it as my job to address your strawmen other than to point and laugh at you.

Also explain why you and those more than two million did not go to one of those countries instead of immigrating here.

No. You explain your own stupid arguments.

Let's see if progressive Senators filibuster it.

It passed the Senate already to the objection of the progressives I mentioned previously.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Good. Glad that's clear.

Yes, me too. You learn slow, but you can learn.

You spoke about the similarities and now are hiding behind the word connection. You did speak about the similarities but have yet to produce any similarities to authoritarian governments beyond the incredibly non specific similarity of "growing government", whatever the fuck that means...

Which word don't you understand? "Growing" or "government?"

Can you prove this claim?

Can you disprove it?

How is trying to stay in power after losing an election authoritarian? I'll let you try and piece that together.

You mispelled "I don't know."

Naw, I don't care all that much. It's easily corrected and cleared up.

That's the difference between dumb and stupid. A dumb person makes dumb mistakes. A stupid person doesn't care that he makes dumb mistakes, and even enjoys them.

No.

I don't see it as my job to address your strawmen other than to point and laugh at you.

You made the claim.

No. You explain your own stupid arguments.

You and the two million plus came here for a reason.

It passed the Senate already to the objection of the progressives I mentioned previously.

But they did not filibuster?

Not especially committed to this idea of not growing the military, are they?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Letting 16-year-olds vote is a way for Democrats to get more votes.

I did some research in this, albeit on UK stats, and young people are overwhelmingly Left Wing. You would think that as people aged, they move more Right Wing, but it's actually to do with education. millennials and zoomers, one in four mistake the definition of capitalism for the definition of socialism.

I have two boys, both in their 20's and the youngest has been been Right Wing, he's been going on 40 since the age of 5. The eldest who voted Labour experienced and learnt two things. He got a high paying job in local government (landed on his feet), and Corbyn became leader of the Labour party. So as he experienced the tax leaving his wage in tandem with Corbyns rhetoric, his education on Left Wing politics shot through the ceiling. He votes Tory. That moment in life taught him that nothing is free, it's paid out of the workings man/woman's pocket, and the more you earn, the more is stolen off you in tax to pay for the lazy assholes in society. Basically, he had a lesson in Socialism.

 

[Curried Goats]

Yes, me too. You learn slow, but you can learn.

Or... I got you to affirm there is no connection between progressives and dictators....

Which word don't you understand? "Growing" or "government?"

We can play this little bitch game if you like where I point out to you that what I'm questioning is in what ways you think progressives want to "grow" government in a manner similar to dictators. As I thoroughly proved they voted against growing the military budget.

Can you disprove it?

I can point and laugh at you for asking me to prove your point.

You mispelled "I don't know."

That's the difference between dumb and stupid. A dumb person makes dumb mistakes. A stupid person doesn't care that he makes dumb mistakes, and even enjoys them.

You made the claim.

No I didn't. I claimed other developed nations provide education and healthcare to their citizens with better results. I can absolutely prove that. If you want to argue our immigration problems account for the discrepancy that would be your argument, not mine.

You and the two million plus came here for a reason.

Yea. Close proximity and birthright citizenship. A lot of my family also went to Canada.

But they did not filibuster?

Does that matter?

Not especially committed to this idea of not growing the military, are they?

You mean other than voting against it....

 

[Seymour Flops]

Or... I got you to affirm there is no connection between progressives and dictators....

Only in your imagination did I "affirm" that.

We can play this little bitch game if you like where I point out to you that what I'm questioning is in what ways you think progressives want to "grow" government in a manner similar to dictators. As I thoroughly proved they voted against growing the military budget.

Proving that progressives want to grow government is like proving water is wet. Not going to waste my time on such a childish demand.

I can point and laugh at you for asking me to prove your point.

Of course you can point and laugh at me for things that I did in your imagination. That's your right!

No I didn't. I claimed other developed nations provide education and healthcare to their citizens with better results. I can absolutely prove that.

Go ahead. "Absolutely prove" that.

If you want to argue our immigration problems account for the discrepancy that would be your argument, not mine.

I was asking for an apples to apples comparison. Apparently, that is somehow unfair?

Yea. Close proximity and birthright citizenship. A lot of my family also went to Canada.

Birthright citizenship? Does that mean that you're an anchor baby?

Close proximity? Is that a joke? There are plenty of countries closer or just as close that you could have moved to.

Cuba is closest, and progressives claim that Cuba has better healthcare than the U.S. Why didn't you just move there? The shortest route to the U.S. from Jamaica takes you right to it.

Or Honduras, or Belize, or Nicaragua, or El Salvador, or Haiti, or the Dominican Republic?

All places with no Bad Orange Man to keep you up at night. You can still move now, if you want.

For that matter, why not just go back to Jamaica?

Both major parties are social democrat, it should be a paradise for you, right?

Plus "free" healthcare:

Sounds awesome!

Start packing, CG.

Does that matter?

You mean other than voting against it....

Yes, filibustering. That shows a commitment.

Saying "nay" for a vote that they knew was going to pass anyway, was a political stunt. In reality, progressives were only too glad that the military budget grew.

 

[Curried Goats]

Only in your imagination did I "affirm" that.

So there is a connection?

Im not bothered by your inability to articulate a coherent point.

Proving that progressives want to grow government is like proving water is wet. Not going to waste my time on such a childish demand.

Are we supposed to believe growing government is inherently bad?

Of course you can point and laugh at me for things that I did in your imagination. That's your right!

Go ahead. "Absolutely prove" that.

U.S. Health System Ranks Last Among 11 High-Income Countries

Among the highlights are that among the 11 high income nations we are last in infant mortality and life expectancy.

I was asking for an apples to apples comparison. Apparently, that is somehow unfair?

You are free to raise any point you like it just isn't my responsibility to prove its accuracy or relevance. I made my argument and I just proved it with the above link. If you want to dispute those facts or show how immigration affects those numbers then feel free to make that your counter argument.

Birthright citizenship? Does that mean that you're an anchor baby?

It makes me an American citizen as well as it did my daughter and grandson by extension even though my daughter wasn't even born here.

Close proximity? Is that a joke? There are plenty of countries closer or just as close that you could have moved to.

Are you a desperate for work travel agent?

View attachment 741409
Cuba is closest, and progressives claim that Cuba has better healthcare than the U.S.

Why didn't you just move there? The shortest route to the U.S. from Jamaica takes you right to it.

Or Honduras, or Belize, or Nicaragua, or El Salvador, or Haiti, or the Dominican Republic?

Why when the seat of colonizing power in the west was stupid enough to allow us to come in and take their shit?

All places with no Bad Orange Man to keep you up at night. You can still move now, if you want.

No. I think we'll stay because pussies like you can't move us. It's the soft white liberals who are afraid of Trump, I rather enjoyed how he lit the Republican party on fire and encouraged bigots to rock out with their cocks out. It really helped to define the right as the deplorable mutants they are.

For that matter, why not just go back to Jamaica?

We do. We still have dual citizenship, property and some family down there.

Both major parties are social democrat, it should be a paradise for you, right?

Plus "free" healthcare:

View attachment 741411

Sounds awesome!

Start packing, CG.

My family members who are physicians help provide some of that care. My cousin was at St. Ann's Bay hospital not too long ago.

Yes, filibustering. That shows a commitment.

As does voting against it.

Saying "nay" for a vote that they knew was going to pass anyway, was a political stunt. In reality, progressives were only too glad that the military budget grew.

That's your opinion. It's a fact that they all voted against the increase. Not my fault you don't seem to understand the difference.

 

[Seymour Flops]

So there is a connection?

I made no statement whatsoever about the existance of a "connection." That argument is between you and your imaginary version of me that did.

Are we supposed to believe growing government is inherently bad?

You may believe as you please.

If you believe that progressives do not want to grow government, just say so.

U.S. Health System Ranks Last Among 11 High-Income Countries

Among the highlights are that among the 11 high income nations we are last in infant mortality and life expectancy.

Showing the opinion of "The Commonwealth Fund" does not "absolutely prove" anything.

You are free to raise any point you like it just isn't my responsibility to prove its accuracy or relevance. I made my argument and I just proved it with the above link. If you want to dispute those facts or show how immigration affects those numbers then feel free to make that your counter argument.

You did not prove it. Unless you are using some wholly different defintion of "proved" like "showed that someone else thinks so also."

If you don't think immigration affects health care outcomes, say so. Then I will be happy to school you.

I don't have to make any argument about the United States being a better country for health care. The fact that you, and millions of other immigrants, flock here annually, tells me all that I need to know about those other supposedly "superior" countries.

It makes me an American citizen as well as it did my daughter and grandson by extension even though my daughter wasn't even born here.

If your parents immigrated, you are free to emigrate.

Are you a desperate for work travel agent?

I was just curious why you did/do not move to socialist Cuba.

Why when the seat of colonizing power in the west was stupid enough to allow us to come in and take their shit?

Thank you for saying that. It will come in handy.

You are correct. The progressives/Democrats in this country that want unlimited immigration and free stuff for immigrants are incredibly stupid.

No. I think we'll stay because pussies like you can't move us. It's the soft white liberals who are afraid of Trump, I rather enjoyed how he lit the Republican party on fire and encouraged bigots to rock out with their cocks out. It really helped to define the right as the deplorable mutants they are.

Oh, I knew you would stay. Most Americans see the word "emigrate" and they think it is "immigrate" spelled wrong, becuase so few Americans emigrate.

That's why any comparison to any other country is futile.

We do. We still have dual citizenship, property and some family down there.

My family members who are physicians help provide some of that care. My cousin was at St. Ann's Bay hospital not too long ago.

If they were any good, they would have come to the U.S.

As does voting against it.

That's your opinion. It's a fact that they all voted against the increase. Not my fault you don't seem to understand the difference.

It is a fact that when Senators strongly oppose something, they filibuster it.

 

[Curried Goats]

I made no statement whatsoever about the existance of a "connection." That argument is between you and your imaginary version of me that did.

You did however argue there were similarities which you also can't describe beyond the hilariously generic similarity of wanting to grow government....

You may believe as you please.

If you believe that progressives do not want to grow government, just say so.

I don't believe progressive in America want authoritarianism.

Showing the opinion of "The Commonwealth Fund" does not "absolutely prove" anything.

An opinion based on facts like access to care, infant mortality rates and life expectancy. Maybe you're of the opinion those things don't matter.

You did not prove it. Unless you are using some wholly different defintion of "proved" like "showed that someone else thinks so also."

I think they share my opinion that having fewer babies die during birth or a longer life expectancy are better than more infant deaths and a lower life expectancy. Maybe you have different criteria? I'd be interested in hearing what those are.

If you don't think immigration affects health care outcomes, say so. Then I will be happy to school you.

I don't think it affects it a way that you can prove significantly skews outcomes.

I don't have to make any argument about the United States being a better country for health care. The fact that you, and millions of other immigrants, flock here annually, tells me all that I need to know about those other supposedly "superior" countries.

Flock here from third world countries. I was comparing first world countries.

If your parents immigrated, you are free to emigrate.

I was just curious why you did/do not move to socialist Cuba.

I know you are. You're still having trouble grasping the relevance of a dictatorship.

Thank you for saying that. It will come in handy.

You are correct. The progressives/Democrats in this country that want unlimited immigration and free stuff for immigrants are incredibly stupid.

Immigrants work as hard as anyone else in this country.

Oh, I knew you would stay. Most Americans see the word "emigrate" and they think it is "immigrate" spelled wrong, becuase so few Americans emigrate.

That's why any comparison to any other country is futile.

If they were any good, they would have come to the U.S.

You do know other countries also have immigration right? Canada also has a Universal Healthcare system that provides better outcomes and has a large immigrant population. It's not that hard to find someone to compare America to.

It is a fact that when Senators strongly oppose something, they filibuster it.

No.... that's still just an opinion. Jesus.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You did however argue there were similarities which you also can't describe beyond the hilariously generic similarity of wanting to grow government....

That was one similarity of many. I only posted one to see whether you had grown up any and would seriously discuss that one, before I bothered with any others. Clearly not. Unless you just want to admit right now that both dictators and American progressives want to grow government. Then we can move on to the next point.

I don't believe progressive in America want authoritarianism.

I believe that they do.

An opinion based on facts like access to care, infant mortality rates and life expectancy. Maybe you're of the opinion those things don't matter.

I'm of the opinion that raw statistics comparing one country to another for those specific items prove nothing about which health care system is better, unless the two countries are comparable.

I think they share my opinion that having fewer babies die during birth or a longer life expectancy are better than more infant deaths and a lower life expectancy. Maybe you have different criteria? I'd be interested in hearing what those are.

Those are fine criteria, but again, you're comparing one country to others that are not comparable.

I don't think it affects it a way that you can prove significantly skews outcomes.

I don't believe that you don't know that massive illegal immigration from third world countries significantly affects statistics about health care outcomes.

Flock here from third world countries. I was comparing first world countries.

Europeans flock here also, if that's who you mean by the first world. Not as many as the millions streaming across our border every year, of course. But Europeans immigrate in large numbers. They don't get a lot of attention, because they usually come to find a job and enjoy the American way, which the media ignores. They do not come to collect welfare and hang the flags of their home countries on their pickups.

The media prefers stories of pregnant women wading across El Rio Grande, fighting the contractions and diving across the border just in time for the newest American to pop out. But millions of European immigrants live in the U.S.

They also come as tourists to escape those "first world" medical waiting lists, and second class care one gets at the end of the long wait.

An estimated 40% of all medical travelers are looking for the world's most advanced technologies, worrying little about the proximity of the destination or cost, according to consulting firm McKinsey & Co. It narrowly defined medical travelers as only those whose primary and explicit purpose in traveling was to obtain in-patient medical treatment in a foreign country, putting the total number of travelers at 60,000 to 85,000 per year.

In Depth: U.S. Hospitals Worth The Trip

Most of those patients in search of the best care, including 38% from Latin America, 35% from the Middle East, 16% from Europe and 7% from Canada, are heading to the United States. Additionally, it's estimated that 32% of all medical travelers simply want better care than is available in their home countries, mostly those in the developing world, and 15% want quicker access to medically necessary procedures. That's compared to only 9% of medical travelers seeking medically necessary procedures at lower prices and 4% seeking low-cost discretionary procedures.

I know you are. You're still having trouble grasping the relevance of a dictatorship.

No, I knew exactly where you were going, or trying to avoid going.

You do want the socialism, but without the authoritarianism, and without the economic collapse and descent into fascism that comes with that.

Or more simply, you love your life in the United States where you can enjoy your freebies, enjoy the best medical care in the world, earn a good living if you are motivated to work like most immigrants are, but still come on the internet and piss and moan about how much your chosen country sucks, and we ought to be much more like Europe, which you did not choose to move to.

It's not a bad deal to be able to do that. If only it were sustainable. If a country could spend like we do, keep raising taxes and printing money to keep up with it, continue to be the world's security, regulate our domestic energy out of business and buy oil from dictatorships, and allow unlimited immigration, while never devolving into chaos that leads to authoritatarianism, why not?

Unfortunately, we are spoiling a good thing for our children and grandchildren who will pay the price one way or another for the government as Santa Clause meets Nanny Maim that progressive ideas lead to.

Even if we could hypothetically sustain such an economy (which we cannot), the authoritarianism is built into socialism. People that make money by working hard and productively will voluntarily give money to charities, voluntarily work at food banks and soup kitchens and do pro-bono work for the poor. But the will not voluntarily give more than half of their earning to sustain a welfare state. That requires an increasingly authoritarian government.

But you could still enjoy your vices, spend your handouts, and make money if you care to work, while you complain about your country. So to you it would not feel authoritarian.

Immigrants work as hard as anyone else in this country.

Nearly always harder. But illegal immigrants often work illegally and also get welfare benefits illegally.

You do know other countries also have immigration right? Canada also has a Universal Healthcare system that provides better outcomes and has a large immigrant population. It's not that hard to find someone to compare America to.

Canada carefully controls its border in order to limit its flow of immigrants to those that they choose to allow in. Their immigration is almost exclusively people likely to be a net benefit to Canada. That's not crazy racist of them. Most countries do that. If we did, it would be a more valid comparison, between us and Canada.

We are the only ones stupid enough to let immigrants come in to take what we have worked for. You were spot on about that.

No.... that's still just an opinion. Jesus.

Are you saying that Senators have never filibustered a bill because they strongly opposed it? Really?

 

[B. Kidd]

They don't have to offer them anything.

For the most part young people think with their raw emotions, tend to not be conservative, rash, very very easily are influenced by groups, idealistic, think they know how everything works, and think everything in life is as simple as "everyone deserves to make 30 dollars an hour. Everyone should be rich".

Especially today's today's youth. I would say today's youth aren't knowledgeable about anything till they are 25 or even 28.

A 16 year old from 60 years ago is smart, tougher and more mature than a lot of 21 year olds are today.

Today's Dimm's will use Hitlerian Youth as their model, with a few new twists thrown in!!

 

[DigitalDrifter]

16 year old's voting is an insane idea, but not surprising of course that Dimocrats have been pushing the idea for a while now.

 

[Curried Goats]

That was one similarity of many. I only posted one to see whether you had grown up any and would seriously discuss that one, before I bothered with any others. Clearly not. Unless you just want to admit right now that both dictators and American progressives want to grow government. Then we can move on to the next point.

They also both eat and fart. Ooo! What a similarity!

I believe that they do.

I'm of the opinion that raw statistics comparing one country to another for those specific items prove nothing about which health care system is better, unless the two countries are comparable.

Those are fine criteria, but again, you're comparing one country to others that are not comparable.

Its only your opinion that they arent comparable, you haven't given any good reasons why they aren't.

I don't believe that you don't know that massive illegal immigration from third world countries significantly affects statistics about health care outcomes.

I doubt you have the intellectual capability to prove that.

Europeans flock here also, if that's who you mean by the first world. Not as many as the millions streaming across our border every year, of course. But Europeans immigrate in large numbers. They don't get a lot of attention, because they usually come to find a job and enjoy the American way, which the media ignores. They do not come to collect welfare and hang the flags of their home countries on their pickups.

The media prefers stories of pregnant women wading across El Rio Grande, fighting the contractions and diving across the border just in time for the newest American to pop out. But millions of European immigrants live in the U.S.

They also come as tourists to escape those "first world" medical waiting lists, and second class care one gets at the end of the long wait.

An estimated 40% of all medical travelers are looking for the world's most advanced technologies, worrying little about the proximity of the destination or cost, according to consulting firm McKinsey & Co. It narrowly defined medical travelers as only those whose primary and explicit purpose in traveling was to obtain in-patient medical treatment in a foreign country, putting the total number of travelers at 60,000 to 85,000 per year.

In Depth: U.S. Hospitals Worth The Trip

Most of those patients in search of the best care, including 38% from Latin America, 35% from the Middle East, 16% from Europe and 7% from Canada, are heading to the United States. Additionally, it's estimated that 32% of all medical travelers simply want better care than is available in their home countries, mostly those in the developing world, and 15% want quicker access to medically necessary procedures. That's compared to only 9% of medical travelers seeking medically necessary procedures at lower prices and 4% seeking low-cost discretionary procedures.

You dont care about infant mortality or a longer life expectancy or acces to care.... no, you care more that a whopping 85,000 a year people travel to the US for Healthcare, mostly from South America and the Middle East.... Only 16% of 85,000 people come from all of Europe and 7% of that from Canada and you think that marks a success? OK buddy. I'm happy to put my criteria up against yours.

No, I knew exactly where you were going, or trying to avoid going.

You do want the socialism, but without the authoritarianism, and without the economic collapse and descent into fascism that comes with that.

Is Canada heading towards fascism? Denmark? South Korea? Australia? This is your chicken shit theory? That one day it will happen?

Or more simply, you love your life in the United States where you can enjoy your freebies, enjoy the best medical care in the world, earn a good living if you are motivated to work like most immigrants are, but still come on the internet and piss and moan about how much your chosen country sucks, and we ought to be much more like Europe, which you did not choose to move to.

I was born here dipshit and people move for all sorts of reasons. Miami is a lot closer to Jamaica and my grandparents stayed in Jamaica when my parents and their siblings moved so the main concern for them was being able to easily go back and check on their folks. Your arguments are all innuendo and ass.

It's not a bad deal to be able to do that. If only it were sustainable. If a country could spend like we do, keep raising taxes and printing money to keep up with it, continue to be the world's security, regulate our domestic energy out of business and buy oil from dictatorships, and allow unlimited immigration, while never devolving into chaos that leads to authoritatarianism, why not?

Assclown, we can see other first world, high income nations doing just that without devolving into fascism. Canada has a high immigrant population as well. Nearly a 5th of their population is foreign born.

Unfortunately, we are spoiling a good thing for our children and grandchildren who will pay the price one way or another for the government as Santa Clause meets Nanny Maim that progressive ideas lead to.

Even if we could hypothetically sustain such an economy (which we cannot), the authoritarianism is built into socialism. People that make money by working hard and productively will voluntarily give money to charities, voluntarily work at food banks and soup kitchens and do pro-bono work for the poor. But the will not voluntarily give more than half of their earning to sustain a welfare state. That requires an increasingly authoritarian government.

But you could still enjoy your vices, spend your handouts, and make money if you care to work, while you complain about your country. So to you it would not feel authoritarian.

Oh, you're under the impression that their Universal Healthcare systems are more expensive than our capitalist Healthcare market.

You'd be wrong. As usual. They get better healthcare results for a lot less than we spend for shittier care.

U.S. health system costs four times more to run than Canada’s single-payer system

22 studies agree: ‘Medicare for All’ saves money

Nearly always harder. But illegal immigrants often work illegally and also get welfare benefits illegally.

Do you have any proof they are getting welfare benefits?

Canada carefully controls its border in order to limit its flow of immigrants to those that they choose to allow in. Their immigration is almost exclusively people likely to be a net benefit to Canada. That's not crazy racist of them. Most countries do that. If we did, it would be a more valid comparison, between us and Canada.

Wait, but I thought you just said illegal immigrants work harder than Americans. That seems beneficial to me.

We are the only ones stupid enough to let immigrants come in to take what we have worked for. You were spot on about that.

And soft enough. You people are pussies.

Are you saying that Senators have never filibustered a bill because they strongly opposed it? Really?

No. I'm saying your Demi Moore impression of strenuously objecting is noted but is still just your opinion. It's a fact that they all voted against growing the military budget. I prefer facts to your Soy Boy opinions.

 

[22lcidw]

They also both eat and fart. Ooo! What a similarity!

Its only your opinion that they arent comparable, you haven't given any good reasons why they aren't.

I doubt you have the intellectual capability to prove that.



You dont care about infant mortality or a longer life expectancy or acces to care.... no, you care more that a whopping 85,000 a year people travel to the US for Healthcare, mostly from South America and the Middle East.... Only 16% of 85,000 people come from all of Europe and 7% of that from Canada and you think that marks a success? OK buddy. I'm happy to put my criteria up against yours.

Is Canada heading towards fascism? Denmark? South Korea? Australia? This is your chicken shit theory? That one day it will happen?

I was born here dipshit and people move for all sorts of reasons. Miami is a lot closer to Jamaica and my grandparents stayed in Jamaica when my parents and their siblings moved so the main concern for them was being able to easily go back and check on their folks. Your arguments are all innuendo and ass.

Assclown, we can see other first world, high income nations doing just that without devolving into fascism. Canada has a high immigrant population as well. Nearly a 5th of their population is foreign born.

Oh, you're under the impression that their Universal Healthcare systems are more expensive than our capitalist Healthcare market.

You'd be wrong. As usual. They get better healthcare results for a lot less than we spend for shittier care.

U.S. health system costs four times more to run than Canada’s single-payer system

22 studies agree: ‘Medicare for All’ saves money


Do you have any proof they are getting welfare benefits?

Wait, but I thought you just said illegal immigrants work harder than Americans. That seems beneficial to me.

And soft enough. You people are pussies.

No. I'm saying your Demi Moore impression of strenuously objecting is noted but is still just your opinion. It's a fact that they all voted against growing the military budget. I prefer facts to your Soy Boy opinions.

Fascism is here. It is only the lack of enforcement that makes it look like it is not. Canada has proved it already. The 2020 election when D.C. was shut down showed in full living color.

 

[Curried Goats]

Fascism is here. It is only the lack of enforcement that makes it look like it is not. Canada has proved it already. The 2020 election when D.C. was shut down showed in full living color.

Fascism... lack of enforcement.... those things seem incongruent. Do you even understand what fascism is?

 

[Seymour Flops]

You dont care about infant mortality or a longer life expectancy or acces to care.... no, you care more that a whopping 85,000 a year people travel to the US for Healthcare, mostly from South America and the Middle East.... Only 16% of 85,000 people come from all of Europe and 7% of that from Canada and you think that marks a success? OK buddy. I'm happy to put my criteria up against yours.

Oh, no. I care very much about infant mortality or life expectancy or access to care.

That's why I'm appalled that our progressives support allowing pregnant women, children, and senior citizens to cross oceans, rivers, and deserts to illegally enter the United States instead of staying in their socialist healthcare countries where they can take advantage of all the access that they have, even if they have to wait a few weeks, months or years, to realize that access.

Re-secure the border, and they will not be able to come to this hellhole of a country where their babies die, their seniors die prematurely and no one has access to healthcare except the super-rich.

Is Canada heading towards fascism? Denmark? South Korea? Australia? This is your chicken shit theory? That one day it will happen?

Canada and Australia, yes. Not sure about Denmark and South Korea. But I do know that none of those four has our massive illegal migration, and that they could not handle more than two million illegals as progressives expect us to do. Nor could they be the world's protectors as the world and our politicians expect us to do.

Don't even ask those countries to protect the world. Just let them provide for their own defense, with the understanding that the United States will not come to their rescue again. Have them adopt our progressive immigration policy and give them full reponsibility for millions of immigrants' health care.

Suddenly, they will have to bear their own burdens as we do. When that happens, get back to me with your comparisons.

I was born here dipshit and people move for all sorts of reasons. Miami is a lot closer to Jamaica and my grandparents stayed in Jamaica when my parents and their siblings moved so the main concern for them was being able to easily go back and check on their folks. Your arguments are all innuendo and ass.

Havana is even closer to Jamaica, but someone in your ancestry decided that the U.S. of A. was just fine. They were right, as were my ancestors, who made the same decision.

Assclown, we can see other first world, high income nations doing just that without devolving into fascism. Canada has a high immigrant population as well. Nearly a 5th of their population is foreign born.

Being foreign born doesn't make a person a burden. Not as long as immigration is tightly controlled and only those who can support themselves are allowed in. If we controlled immigration instead of our current free-for-all, and we denied access to people who will be burdens, I'd be fine with much more immigration.

You have to already have money to immigrate to Canada, and you have to meet stringent requirements. You can't just walk in, claim assylum, and start getting welfare:

Canada doesn't want a yuge influx of immigration by people with no means to support themselves any more than Donald Trump does. I don't blame them.

Oh, you're under the impression that their Universal Healthcare systems are more expensive than our capitalist Healthcare market.

You'd be wrong. As usual. They get better healthcare results for a lot less than we spend for shittier care.

How is dying on a waiting list a better result?

How is euthanasia for the mentally ill a better result?

How is being driven to pull one's own teeth with pliars due to pain and a long waitlist for a dentist a better result?

U.S. health system costs four times more to run than Canada’s single-payer system

Due to our illegals, yes.

You said were were stupid to let the world come in and take what we worked for. You were correct and I agreed with you.

It cost more to do anything, with thieves stealing from you as you try to do it.

22 studies agree: ‘Medicare for All’ saves money

It would "save money" by denying services and/or hiring lower-paid and therefore lower-quality medical providers and and medical goods providers. The costs of things you buy never go down because government buys them for you. The costs are only shifted.

Here is the designer of Obamacare. He, like you, believes that Americans accept progressive policies because they are too stupid to understand them.

Do you have any proof they are getting welfare benefits?

Do you have any proof that they aren't?

Wait, but I thought you just said illegal immigrants work harder than Americans. That seems beneficial to me.

I said immigrants work harder than Americans, so stop lying. But I'll say now that illegal immigrants work harder than most Americans. In Georgia, they cracked down farmers hiring illegal aliens, which is the only enforcement that American progressives ever advocate for. They told Georgia unemployment recipients "Good news, job openings! Here are your farms to report to so you can start picking. PS: if you don't show, your benefits are gone."

Great idea, right?

But by noon, nearly all of them had decided that field work wasn't for them even if it means they lose benefits and have to find a job better suited to their skillsets.

I have zero problem with hardworking immigrants. I'd rather that they did not work and also claim welfare benefits meant for the indigent, but considering who runs welfare, that will happen.

Just don't try to blow smoke up my ass by telling me that they fact that pregnant women and senior citizens illegally crossing the border push our infant mortality up and life expectancy down means that Sweden is a superior country to the U.S. Neither you nor your family members believe that or you would be living in Stockholm, not in Miami.

 

[Curried Goats]

Oh, no. I care very much about infant mortality or life expectancy or access to care.

That's why I'm appalled that our progressives support allowing pregnant women, children, and senior citizens to cross oceans, rivers, and deserts to illegally enter the United States instead of staying in their socialist healthcare countries where they can take advantage of all the access that they have, even if they have to wait a few weeks, months or years, to realize that access.

Pretending as if you don't understand the difference between struggling South American countries and high income, first world nations only makes you look like a complete moron. So far you've claimed we can't compare America to Canada but apparently we can compare it to Guatemala. White wing logic in action.

Re-secure the border, and they will not be able to come to this hellhole of a country where their babies die, their seniors die prematurely and no one has access to healthcare except the super-rich.

Those statistics are representative of American babies dying more prematurely than babies in other first world nations you Dipshit.

Canada and Australia, yes. Not sure about Denmark and South Korea. But I do know that none of those four has our massive illegal migration, and that they could not handle more than two million illegals as progressives expect us to do. Nor could they be the world's protectors as the world and our politicians expect us to do.

You haven't even done one thing to show how illegal aliens have affected those results.

Don't even ask those countries to protect the world. Just let them provide for their own defense, with the understanding that the them full reponsibility for millions of immigrants' health care.

Suddenly, they will have to bear their own burden. When that happens, get back to me with your comparisons.

Protect the world? Who are we protecting Canada from? That's just you buying into propaganda from the Military Industrial Complex. It's sad. We can't have lower infant mortality and longer life expectancy because we need to spend our tax dollars protecting the rest of the world? You have a confusing ideology my guy.

Havan is a lot closer to Jamaica also, but someone in your ancestry decided that the U.S. was just fine. They were right, as were my ancestors, who made the same decision.

Still confused about the differences between democracies and dictatorships and first world and third world nations are you....

Yes, foreign born is one thing. Being foreign born doesn't make a person a burden. Not as long as immigration is tightly controlled and only those who can support themselves are allowed in. If we controlled immigration instead of our current free-for-all, and we denied access to people who will be burdens, I'd be fine with much more immigration.

Who gives a shit about how you feel about illegals? Did you lose the thread on why you were even talking about illegals to begin with?

Can you do anything to prove illegal immigrants affected the results of that healthcare analysis? Yes or no?

You have to already have money to immigrate to Canada, you can't just walk in and get welfare:

View attachment 741653

I advocate for Universal Healthcare not because I can't afford my own healthcare but because it would produce better results. Half of my family are doctors, my medical needs are all covered.

How is dying on a waiting list a better result?

First world nations have longer life expectancy than we do you Dipshit. Do you need me to explain to you what longer means? Who's dying on waiting lists? You produced one thing that said a whopping 84,000 people come here every year strictly for medical services and most of them were from poor south american countries and the midde east. 7% of that was from Canada and nowhere did it say those 7% were coming here because they would of died waiting for care. People die in the United States all the time because they can't afford care. That's what access to care is all about. We are last in that category for first world nations.

How is euthanasia for the mentally ill a better result?

Again longer life expectancy. You figure out what that means.

How is driven to pull one's own teeth with pliars due to pain and a long waitlist for a dentist a better result?

Are you just riffing fanfiction at this point?

Due to our illegals, yes.

proof?

I don't mind criticism of the U.S. You said were were stupid to let the world come in and take what we worked for. You were correct and I agreed with you.

I was being facetious. This country was built on the backs of slaves and is sustained by exploiting poorer countries. People are coming to take their shit back.

It cost more to do anything, with thieves stealing from you as you try to do it.

It would "save money" by denying services and/or hiring lower-paid and therefore lower-quality medical providers and and medical goods providers. The costs of things you buy never go down because government buys them for you. The costs are only shifted.

That's not where the reports showed they'd save money. It was in the cutting and streamlining of having to navigate the bureaucracy that is the private health insurance industry. Again, other first world nations not only spend less on healthcare than we do, they do so with better results.

Do you have any proof that they aren't?

Proving whether they are or aren't isn't pertinent to my argument, it's pertinent to yours. You prove it.

I said immigrants work harder than Americans, so stop lying.

And then you said they were a burden. Im not lying when I say that's a confusing bit of logic.

But I'll say now that illegal immigrants work harder than most Americans. In Georgia, they cracked down farmers hiring illegal aliens, which is the only enforcement that American progressives ever advocate for. They told Georgia unemployment recipients "Good news, job openings! Here are your farms to report to so you can start picking. PS: if you don't show, your benefits are gone."

Great idea, right?

But by noon, nearly all of them had decided that field work wasn't for them even if it means they lose benefits and have to find a job better suited to their skillsets.

I have zero problem with hardworking immigrants. I'd rather that they did not work and also claim welfare benefits meant for the indigent, but considering who runs welfare, that will happen.

I'm confused about what you have zero problem with. Is it the exploitation of illegal immigrant workers?

Just don't try to blow smoke up my ass by telling me that they fact that pregnant women and senior citizens illegally crossing the border push our infant mortality up and life expectancy down means that Sweden is a superior country to the U.S. Neither you nor your family members believe that or you would be living in Stockholm, not in Miami.

I'm not blowing anything up your ass. I'm willing to believe that affected the results of the study when you can prove it. Your suggestion isn't worth shit.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Pretending as if you don't understand the difference between struggling South American countries and high income, first world nations only makes you look like a complete moron. So far you've claimed we can't compare America to Canada but apparently we can compare it to Guatemala. White wing logic in action.

You want to compare socialized medicine to non-socialized medicine, but you want to first take out the worst examples of socialist countries?

You want to compare the U.S health care system with any other country, pick one that has our progressive immigration policy, i.e. non-enforcement of the border, and the social disaster that it creates.

Is there is a first world country that has 2.7 million illegal aliens coming over their border per year, and has implimented a successful public healthcare system that provides the same high quality care that the American middle class gets, but to everyone including those illegals?

If so, I want to emulate that country for sure. Which one is it?

Those statistics are representative of American babies dying more prematurely than babies in other first world nations you Dipshit.

If you define "American babies," to include the babies of third world illegal border crossers who have had socialized prenatal care for eight and a half months, and then made a harrowing journey to the U.S. to go to an emergency room to give birth.

You haven't even done one thing to show how illegal aliens have affected those results.

It is too obvious to try to "prove" to someone who honestly doen't understand it.

Protect the world? Who are we protecting Canada from? That's just you buying into propaganda from the Military Industrial Complex. It's sad.

Whether they need our protection or not, we are spending as if they do. I see you chose Canada and not Taiwan. Does Taiwan also not need our protection?

We can't have lower infant mortality and longer life expectancy because we need to spend our tax dollars protecting the rest of the world? You have a confusing ideology my guy.

I know it is a little complicated for you to grasp.

Still confused about the differences between democracies and dictatorships and first world and third world nations are you....

Who gives a shit about how you feel about illegals? Did you lose the thread on why you were even talking about illegals to begin with?

Can you do anything to prove illegal immigrants affected the results of that healthcare analysis? Yes or no?

I don't need to prove it, it is too obvious.

I advocate for Universal Healthcare not because I can't afford my own healthcare but because it would produce better results. Half of my family are doctors, my medical needs are all covered.

If you want Universal Healthcare, but you you yourself choose private health care instead of government healht care, you can get a similar experience to Universal Healthcare right here at home.

Next time you need to see a doctor, don't go to a family member. Call a random General Practitioner and ask for an appointment. If they offer you one the same week, say no that you want to wait twelve weeks to see the doctor. After the twelve weeks, if the doctor wants you to start treatment or have a surgery right away, tell her no that you want to wait eighteen weeks from the time of the referal. Then cancel the treatment the day before the eight weeks is up, and tell them to add another 28 days.

Guide to NHS waiting times in England

Then ask that any treatment or procedures be performed with outdated equipment and medication, and by a doctor who is not good enough to work in the United States. But before any money is spent, make sure they go over options to save by the much more economic assisted suicide options.

Or better yet, go to a first world country with Universal Healthcare and get all that automatically. Since it is Universal, you would not be turned away, right?

First world nations have longer life expectancy than we do you Dipshit. Do you need me to explain to you what longer means? Who's dying on waiting lists? You produced one thing that said a whopping 84,000 people come here every year strictly for medical services and most of them were from poor south american countries and the midde east. 7% of that was from Canada and nowhere did it say those 7% were coming here because they would of died waiting for care. People die in the United States all the time because they can't afford care. That's what access to care is all about. We are last in that category for first world nations.

Name some of these people that die "all the time" because they can't afford health care. Be sure to include plenty of proof.

I was being facetious. This country was built on the backs of slaves and is sustained by exploiting poorer countries. People are coming to take their shit back.

"Back?" Don't you mean "backpedal?" Sorry, won't let you do that. You said what you said, and gave no indication of facetiousness.

The descendents of American slaves are already here, and they are not taking their shit "back," because the people who took it are long dead. It is only White progressive dumbasses that think that they can effectively punish living Americans for the sins of people long dead. Black Americans have long since succeeded in joining in the American Dream, just as your family did.

That's not where the reports showed they'd save money. It was in the cutting and streamlining of having to navigate the bureaucracy that is the private health insurance industry. Again, other first world nations not only spend less on healthcare than we do, they do so with better results.

Oh, I get it. Government will take over so there will be less bureaucracy. Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!

Proving whether they are or aren't isn't pertinent to my argument, it's pertinent to yours. You prove it.

One can't prove anything to the willfully stupid.

And then you said they were a burden. Im not lying when I say that's a confusing bit of logic.

To you it is confusing. Because you are easily confused by facts that do not fit your narrative, and logic requiring more than two-step thinking. Your two-step logic is this:

1) Pass a law making our health care system the same as Sweden's

2) We get the same results as Sweden.

You are incapable of considering any other factors that would affect that goal's realization. In other words, you are a progressive.

People can work hard and still be a burden. American citizens who work minimum wage jobs also often collect welfare, so they are a burden on taxpayers no matter how hard they work at those jobs.

If we stopped giving welfare to people with jobs, the employers would face a choice of either providing their workers with enough pay to support themselves, or losing their workers. You should get that, if you'd read up on your Marx. He called it "the minimum wage."

Instead of letting the free market find the natural minimum wage, we let Walmart, McDonalds, et al, get away with paying an artificial minimum wage (which is much lower than the natural minimum wage would be), while subsidizing their workforce with food stamps, WIC, AFDC, and other taxpayer-funded benefits plus Obamacare which shifts their healthcare costs to middle class workers.

I'm confused about what you have zero problem with. Is it the exploitation of illegal immigrant workers?

You get confused a lot. Let's take another look at what I said I had no problem with instead of what you hallucinated.

Notice that the word "exploitation" does not appear in that sentence? If you want to argue that paying people to work is exploitation, have at it. I will be happy to look at your proof.

I'm not blowing anything up your ass. I'm willing to believe that affected the results of the study when you can prove it. Your suggestion isn't worth shit.

You're not denying that that affected the results of the study, so why should I bother to prove it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not sure what you consider extreme, but I can assure you that in my red state the very heavily Republican affluent class is far from practicing incest. You sound like a typical lefty from a large NE urban area who believes Southerners are riding around in their horse and buggies only to swing by on vacation and realize that our life is far better than theirs. They sell their dump and move here to a much nicer life, but then continue vote for the morons that were running the dump they left. Amazing stupidity.

Have an exceptionally Happy New Year!