Let's see how far apart we really are on abortion... Step 1

[eagle1462010]

There are two things I read, that are relevant. One is that the claim women get pregnant in order get subsidies for their children, is largely a myth. The other is that system for welfare, is set so as to disincentivize the father from living with his family. If father is with them, they get less money even though the father may hold a low wage job and she may have no job. That seems messed up.

It is not a myth. Back in the day it absolutely happened. Got paid more per child. You also get more tax credits per child even now.

Most of the abuse on Welfare paid per child has been removed now.

 

[scruffy]

I could agree to a federal law on this. But no obstacles to obtaining it within the time period.

I could agree to this compromise too. I'd probably push "a little" to keep the number of weeks down, but you'd know more about that than I would

That's kind of the point, yes? Any such law has to work for YOU, and if you say you can live with it I'll demur in your favor. Any workable compromise that keeps people from rioting is good with me.

 

[Coyote]

Define the obstacles............Only one I've seen is the abortion clinic is required to be State Medical Board Certified to perform. And another stipulation is still an issue with Federal Funding.

Those need to be hashed out. Are you pushing the taxpayers to pay for everything by your objection?

By obstacles I mean things like waiting periods, multiple visits required, vaginal ultrasounds, requiring admitting privileges or conditions on clinic that are not required for other similar clinics offering same day procedures. If it is treated like any other procedure, then I’m fine with it having a 13 (though I prefer 15) week limit.

No, I do not think taxpayers should pay for everything. Insurance should cover it if you have insurance. If you are on Medicare/Medicaid it should covered the same as any other surgical procedure.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I am betting reasonable people, whether Democrats or Republicans are a lot closer on Abortion than we are told we are.

QUESTION 1 - Do you believe in "unlimited" abortions all the way to 9 months, no restrictions.
In other words - NO TIME LIMITS.
** NOTE*** If you are an independent - please answer as to the party you most identify with on abortion.

Republican, there should be no abortion, excpet in cases of life......

 

[Coyote]

I could agree to this compromise too. I'd probably push "a little" to keep the number of weeks down, but you'd know more about that than I would

That's kind of the point, yes? Any such law has to work for YOU, and if you say you can live with it I'll demur in your favor. Any workable compromise that keeps people from rioting is good with me.

Well…if people as different as we are can agree on compromises then surely our elected representatives can be pushed into it.

 

[buckeye45_73]

12 to 16 week time period was the obvious compromise.

But no, we don't compromise like adults any more. It's all or nothing, like spoiled children.

No, it's better, I dont like elective abortions at all, but 15 weeks is better than what the dems want.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I’m not a D, but I voted anyway. However, where the woman’s life/health are threatened, there should be no limits. Same with severe fetal deformities that are incompatible with life.

I would agree with this, the deformities I'm a little skeptical, my grand niece has encephalitis and the doc said she wouldn't live a week. She's now 4 and while she has learning disablitlies and her parents have been through a lot, they wouldn't have it any other way and we are all proud of my niece and nephew. So that one would be a little iffy, but life of the mother, sure, I would be ok with that.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Well…if people as different as we are can agree on compromises then surely our elected representatives can be pushed into it.

True, I think most of the bans in red states are similar to that. The MS law that caused the decision was a 15 week limit.

 

[eagle1462010]

By obstacles I mean things like waiting periods, multiple visits required, vaginal ultrasounds, requiring admitting privileges or conditions on clinic that are not required for other similar clinics offering same day procedures. If it is treated like any other procedure, then I’m fine with it having a 13 (though I prefer 15) week limit.

Parental consent? You for allowing children to go and not have parents consent?

You are LOOKING FOR LOOP HOLES? The facility should be Medical certified?

 

[Coyote]

Goddammit I fucked up and it looks like I can't change the second answer.

Under Democrat the SECOND OPTION - Should be "I am a D and believe there should NOT be time limits.
Obviously with the fuck up, both answers are the same.
Can a Mod change this?

I added it for you as another option, changing it would have messed with those who already voted.

 

[task0778]

Well…if people as different as we are can agree on compromises then surely our elected representatives can be pushed into it.

I didn't think they could come up with a bipartisan gun control, but they did. IMHO, the dems would jump all over any kind of abortion bill that outlawed a ban, and frankly I think that's what we should do AND that is probably what Roberts wanted instead of outright overturning RvW. From a pragmatic pov that is or was a better outcome, but OTOH that RvW decision was judicial overreach. Water under the bridge though, I ain't going down that rabbit hole again.

Problem: last I heard, 26 states are about to ban abortions or close to a ban. So how many repub senators will support a bill that makes abortion legal up to the 15th week give or take? Especially with November getting closer every day. They should, IMHO it would be best for the country, but will they? My guess is, not until after November.

Still, most Americans support abortion in the 1st trimester. Generally you don't go wrong when you support those majority opinions.

 

[Coyote]

Parental consent? You for allowing children to go and not have parents consent?

You are LOOKING FOR LOOP HOLES? The facility should be Medical certified?

I’m being very EXACT.

Parental consent would have to be ironed out. IMO, 16 and over, consent not needed.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

The issue is not time limits!

Trump appointed three judges to continue his legacy.

Because of its enormous unpopularity, the conservative Supreme Court has walled itself off from the American people.

The extreme unpopularity of Trump's conservative Court has grown in intensity.

Following the shooting massacres in Buffalo and Uvalde as well as others, the Court expanded gun rights. One can now carry a loaded gun in plain view down Fifth Avenue in New York. What kind of person would want to do such a thing?

Following that fateful decision, the Court made an extremely unpopular decision the following day.

CNN explains, "The Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade on Friday, holding that there is no longer a federal constitutional right to an abortion.

"The opinion is the most consequential Supreme Court decision in decades and will transform the landscape of women’s reproductive health in America.

"Going forward, abortion rights will be determined by states, unless Congress acts.  Already, nearly half of the states have or will pass laws that ban abortion while others have enacted strict measures regulating the procedure."

There are hundreds of reasons why this decision was a poor one, and many of them will become clear in the coming months as chaos reigns. Here are a few.

The Court argued that the right to an abortion is not in the Constitution. The enormous duplicity of this statement by the Supreme Court is egregious. The American people have hundreds of rights that are not enumerated in the Constitution. The statement is downright ludicrous, damaging the reputation of the Court.

This is the first time in its history that the Supreme Court has removed a fundamental right, the right of a woman to make her own decisions regarding her health and well-being.

The Court is imposing its religious view on the American people.

The Court determined that the government is in control of a woman's health when it involves a pregnancy. The woman and her doctor do not decide her fate. The state does.

Oklahoma has made abortion a criminal act, punishable by a prison term. If a woman from Oklahoma goes to New York where abortion is legal, can Oklahoma charge the person who performed the abortion?

The Court's obsession with its religious view on abortion overrode all other considerations.

This is Trump's legacy and the Republican Party is solely responsible. It will take a federal law to restore a woman's right to make health decisions. Keep that in mind when you vote in November. It will require 60 votes in the Senate to override Republican opposition to the legislation.

 

[Coyote]

Parental consent? You for allowing children to go and not have parents consent?

You are LOOKING FOR LOOP HOLES? The facility should be Medical certified?

What do you mean by medically certified? Aren’t all out patient clinics medically certified?

 

[eagle1462010]

What do you mean by medically certified? Aren’t all out patient clinics medically certified?

Are they? I've heard of some over time that were not exactly MEDICALLY QUALIIFIED...........Certified by the medical board of the state and meeting the basic standards to hold a license to operate in the state.

 

[eagle1462010]

I’m being very EXACT.

Parental consent would have to be ironed out. IMO, 16 and over, consent not needed.

Why 16 and not the normal Adult age of 18??

 

[Coyote]

Are they? I've heard of some over time that were not exactly MEDICALLY QUALIIFIED...........Certified by the medical board of the state and meeting the basic standards to hold a license to operate in the state.

If they were not, then they were operating illegally.

 

[Sunsettommy]

By obstacles I mean things like waiting periods, multiple visits required, vaginal ultrasounds, requiring admitting privileges or conditions on clinic that are not required for other similar clinics offering same day procedures. If it is treated like any other procedure, then I’m fine with it having a 13 (though I prefer 15) week limit.

No, I do not think taxpayers should pay for everything. Insurance should cover it if you have insurance. If you are on Medicare/Medicaid it should covered the same as any other surgical procedure.

At 16 weeks the fetus is about the size of an Avocado thus 13 weeks it will be a bit smaller.

 

[Coyote]

Why 16 and not the normal Adult age of 18??

16 is the age when a minor can be emancipated.

 

[eagle1462010]

If they were not, then they were operating illegally.

Exactly. And I remember some arguments on this subject. Where the abortion clinics were accusing the State of being shut down illegally. But they were not LICENSED in the State. I think it was in Texas.