Lawyers

[Yurt]

Lawyers evoke strong emotions in most people. It is usually you either love or hate them, with the latter allegedly leading in the polls, notwithstanding, that most people love their lawyer when they need them.

So, honestly, what is it you like or dislike about lawyers? What would you change, constructively? Is the profession as a whole or is it a few bad Apple Crisps to Lazy to Understand.

Do you generally dislike all lawyers or only those crisp types in the aforementioned paragraph? If so, what would you like to see different, because, afterall, our legal system is important and it needs to be operated as smoothly and efficiently as possible.

On a lighter note, any comments would be appreciated,

Thanks.

 

[Yurt]

:guitar1:

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Lawyers evoke strong emotions in most people. It is usually you either love or hate them, with the latter allegedly leading in the polls, notwithstanding, that most people love their lawyer when they need them.

So, honestly, what is it you like or dislike about lawyers? What would you change, constructively? Is the profession as a whole or is it a few bad Apple Crisps to Lazy to Understand.

Do you generally dislike all lawyers or only those crisp types in the aforementioned paragraph? If so, what would you like to see different, because, afterall, our legal system is important and it needs to be operated as smoothly and efficiently as possible.

On a lighter note, any comments would be appreciated,

Thanks.

Your post is written lawyer-esquely.

 

[Yurt]

Your post is written lawyer-esquely.

It was my attempt at being funny :gang1:

 

[KarlMarx]

99.9% of lawyers give the rest a bad name

 

[Stephanie]

99.9% of lawyers give the rest a bad name

so true..

 

[Hobbit]

While I could take a few minutes talking about scumbag defense attorneys who defend people they know are guilty, leveraging the legal system to remove good evidence from trial on a tiny technicality so they can get their pound of flesh, I won't, because me beef isn't with them. Lawyers are supposed to fight for their clients, after all. My beef is with the lawsuit racket, a part of the legal system where the only winners are lawyers. Here's a small list of problems I have with the system. Some of the contents are paraphrased from John Stossel's book, "Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity." (an entire chapter is dedicated to lawsuits)

For every non-lawyer individual aided by a lawsuit, hundreds are hurt. Whenever you see a lawsuit about how some poor child's family got millions of dollars in a lawsuit, think about the bigger picture. Let's take a medical malpractice suit as an example. Let's say a pacemaker failed in a convenience store. In order to cover all the bases, the lawyer for the plaintiff would sue the company that made the pacemaker, every person (doctors, nurses, and orderlies) who were involved in caring for the person in the hospital when the pacemaker was installed, the hospital, and the convenience store. In addition to the millions of dollars, there's much more than that in legal costs all around. Insurance premiums go up. Prices at all the sued places go up (ever wonder why health care is so expensive?). Doctors get overly cautious and order more and more invasive tests than they normally would, just to avoid lawsuits. The pacemaker company would also stifle R&D, as new types of pacemakers would be more vulnurable to lawsuits.

Defective product lawsuits stifle innovation. Yeah, some products have been made safer because of lawsuits, but many others have just been made rarer. Ever wonder why there is a shortage of flu vaccine every year? It's no secret. Flu vaccine contains weakened flu virii, as it doesn't work with inactive (dead) virii like many other vaccines. This means there's a small risk of getting the flu from the vaccine. Only four companies are willing to make flu vaccine because of the rampaging lawsuits over these infections, despite numerous, visible warnings that flu shots may cause flu symptoms. Even after Congress stepped in a made a fund to pay flu vaccine 'victims,' many pharmaceutical companies were sued beause fearmongers believed a new mercury based preservative caused autism. Autism isn't down. Flu epidemics are up. Here's a short list of things that we don't have because no company is willing to risk getting sued into bankruptcy.

Monsato, a chemical company, made a safe, effective asbestos substitute almost 20 years ago.

The FDA has approved a vaccine for Lyme disease. Want some? Too bad. Nobody makes it.

Silicone breast implants are unavailable in the U.S. because of baseless claims of the danger they pose. That's not news. What is news is that those lawsuits are responsible for a silicone product to reduce hypodermic needle pain being taken off the market.

There are VERY small dialysis machines that have been made. Who knows, by now we might actually be able to implant manufactured kidneys in people, but nobody wants to seel them because the legal costs outweigh potential profit.

Hey ladies, ever been pregnant? Ever had morning sickness? Bendectin would have taken care of it had legal costs not driven in off the market. Lawyers claimed the drug caused birth defects. Merrell Dow won most of the lawsuits, but paying the lawyers got too expensive. Two years after it was taken off the market, hospitalization due to dehydration resulting from morning sickness doubled. Birth defect rates remained unchanged.

Malpractice suits hurt patients. All doctors walk around in mortal fear of being sued. One of the most dangerous is obstetrics (pregnancy doctors, for those of you who attended government schools), with 76 percent of obstetricians being sued. That's because nothing makes a more sypathetic victim than a crying mother with a crippled baby. Bad things happen, but seriously, are 76 percent of all obstetricians bad and careless? For a firsthand example, let's go back to the pregnant ladies. How many of you had a C section? How many of you still bear that rather large scar? How painful was it? How much more so than natural childbirth? It may not have been necessary? Remeber John Edwards? The guy who wanted by be Poodle's vice president? He claimed that lack of oxygen to the brain during birth caused cerebral palsy. He claimed that doing a C section would have aided in this and prevented the palsy. He even went so far as to actually claim to channel the spirit of the child in one case, claiming to speak for the child at the time of birth (yes, it's outrageously retarded, but it won the plaintiff a $6.5 million reward). Since he started his antics in 1970, he's gotten $40-80 million richer, C sections have more than quadrupled, and the rate of CB is...unchanged. When asked if it was fair how many doctors got sued and had to pay up, famous doctor suer Dickie Scruggs replied, "Well, that's why they have insurance." The money comes from somewhere, and it's out of your pocket, and you also pay for lawyers planes, houses, and pools with having to be treated by a paranoid doctor.

Lawsuits suck the fun out of life. For those of you who have been around longer than others, notice a few things different? There are few 'swimming holes' anymore. Baseball players don't throw balls into the stands. Pools lack diving boards. Schools don't offer physical sports programs. All of these can be traced back to lawsuits, because even winning a lawsuit can suck you for everything you have. If the wrong person gets hurt on your property and was there with your permission, you could spend the rest of your life just paying your lawyer, much less an award.

Sexual harrassment suits make the world a colder place. With everything from a friendly embrace to a compliment to appearance being labeled as sexual harrassment or child molestation, everybody's afraid to be nice. Ever sit on your teacher's lap in elementary school? Think your kid gets to do that now?

Lawsuits create meaningless warnings. Every time you see something like "Do not use hairdryer while sleeping," or "Harmful if swallowed," on a hand sized fishing lure, there's a lawsuit behind it, and the suit and the relabeling costs YOU money.

Fast food didn't make you fat, you did. 'nuff said.

Anti-descrimination laws cause more than prevent descrimination. Ever see a two story strip club? Know why? Because it violates the Americans with Disabilities Act by not allowed wheelchair accessable lap dances...upstairs. If you're white, have you even been turned down for a job because the company had to meet some quota or be sued, even if you were far more qualified? If you're not white, have you ever been accused of only having a job because of your race? Stupid anti-descrimination lawsuits running rampant have made everybody so paranoid that they try to make everybody from their staff to their customers to even their suppliers a perfect cross-section of American demographics. That's descrimination.

Class action lawyers get rich off of our backs. Ever get a letter saying you're entitled to a small reward, usually less than $50, because some lawyer filed a class action suit on your behalf? That lawyer is now rich, and you'll pay back that $50 and then some making him that way due to increased prices.

Public interest lawyers force you to pay for their political beliefs. Public interest lawyers are lawyers who sue the government on behalf of 'the public.' Often, they're just looking to get rich with your money. One such example was a Chicago lawsuit filed on behalf of panhandlers. Essentially, the panhandlers got themselves lawyers and took a few bucks from the pockets of everybody who paid Chicago city taxes. He also made sure panhandling was constitutionally protected speech in Chicago, so next time you're in Chicago and some bum follows you for two blocks, swearing at you and getting in your way, you can thank the lawyers who made sure that you couldn't do anything about it.

Lawyers sue because they can. Every once in a while, a lawsuit comes around that corrects a great injustice. All the other 99.9% of lawsuits do nothing but make the lawyers richer and everybody else miserable.

The civil system is made by lawyers, for lawyers. The entire legal system has been remade by lawyers and, as such, it has been made illegal to offer any legal advice to anyone for pay unless you are a member of the Bar Association. The Bar Association, in turn, has kept things like the loser pays system from ever becoming law so that their sweet cash cow can be milked until Judgement Day.

Yeah, it's long, but I REALLY don't like lawyers, and that's why.

 

[William Joyce]

Hobbit's post is a great one.

The thing about lawyers is that they don't create wealth, they destroy it. I've seen a curve of lawyer value to society: at some point, you NEED some lawyers, because otherwise contracts won't be enforced, etc., and the material output will drop. But at a point AFTER that, too many lawyers just end up sucking the wealth out.

The way lawyers make money is by filing lawsuits, and there's no limit on how many can be filed. AND, unlike the market, you don't need to have a demand - you invoke the power of government with a wave of your hand. So while the rest of the world has to convince others to buy their product, lawyers just sit back and file a suit - and get thousands, millions, because...

Juries will award it. Why? Because people are stupid and short-sighted: they don't think of the big picture John Stossel paints, only the "little" picture of the so-called victim.

Also, THERE IS NO LIMIT ON HOW MUCH MONEY YOU CAN GET FROM A LAWSUIT. A hundred thousand? Hundred million? Hundred billion? Juries who probably couldn't tell you how many zeroes are in a million routinely hand out verdicts that big.

 

[Joan]

My nephew (and Godson) is a very wealthy lawyer in California. He is one of the most arrogant individuals on the face of this earth (though I still love him dearly)! Guess it goes with the territory. His specialty - here come the swords - is Medical Malpractice! Only surprise, surprise, he defends the doctors!! He has been an attorney since the early 80's - having graduated from Rutgers College in NJ, then got his Law degree at Pepperdine University in Malibu CA. He never returned to NJ! Worked for a huge law firm for quite a while, but is now heading his own firm! In his time practicing law, he has lost a total of 2 cases! I just saw pictures of his new home in Murrietta CA, and I must say life has treated my little monster quite well - it appears he is king of all he surveys!! I haven't seen him since 1990 - but would love to see him in action in court!! Well, that's enough of my rant for the day, but all lawyers aren't out to screw people!! Thanks for listening!

 

[Avatar4321]

While I could take a few minutes talking about scumbag defense attorneys who defend people they know are guilty, leveraging the legal system to remove good evidence from trial on a tiny technicality so they can get their pound of flesh, I won't, because me beef isn't with them. Lawyers are supposed to fight for their clients, after all. My beef is with the lawsuit racket, a part of the legal system where the only winners are lawyers. Here's a small list of problems I have with the system. Some of the contents are paraphrased from John Stossel's book, "Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity." (an entire chapter is dedicated to lawsuits)

For every non-lawyer individual aided by a lawsuit, hundreds are hurt. Whenever you see a lawsuit about how some poor child's family got millions of dollars in a lawsuit, think about the bigger picture. Let's take a medical malpractice suit as an example. Let's say a pacemaker failed in a convenience store. In order to cover all the bases, the lawyer for the plaintiff would sue the company that made the pacemaker, every person (doctors, nurses, and orderlies) who were involved in caring for the person in the hospital when the pacemaker was installed, the hospital, and the convenience store. In addition to the millions of dollars, there's much more than that in legal costs all around. Insurance premiums go up. Prices at all the sued places go up (ever wonder why health care is so expensive?). Doctors get overly cautious and order more and more invasive tests than they normally would, just to avoid lawsuits. The pacemaker company would also stifle R&D, as new types of pacemakers would be more vulnurable to lawsuits.

Defective product lawsuits stifle innovation. Yeah, some products have been made safer because of lawsuits, but many others have just been made rarer. Ever wonder why there is a shortage of flu vaccine every year? It's no secret. Flu vaccine contains weakened flu virii, as it doesn't work with inactive (dead) virii like many other vaccines. This means there's a small risk of getting the flu from the vaccine. Only four companies are willing to make flu vaccine because of the rampaging lawsuits over these infections, despite numerous, visible warnings that flu shots may cause flu symptoms. Even after Congress stepped in a made a fund to pay flu vaccine 'victims,' many pharmaceutical companies were sued beause fearmongers believed a new mercury based preservative caused autism. Autism isn't down. Flu epidemics are up. Here's a short list of things that we don't have because no company is willing to risk getting sued into bankruptcy.

Monsato, a chemical company, made a safe, effective asbestos substitute almost 20 years ago.

The FDA has approved a vaccine for Lyme disease. Want some? Too bad. Nobody makes it.

Silicone breast implants are unavailable in the U.S. because of baseless claims of the danger they pose. That's not news. What is news is that those lawsuits are responsible for a silicone product to reduce hypodermic needle pain being taken off the market.

There are VERY small dialysis machines that have been made. Who knows, by now we might actually be able to implant manufactured kidneys in people, but nobody wants to seel them because the legal costs outweigh potential profit.

Hey ladies, ever been pregnant? Ever had morning sickness? Bendectin would have taken care of it had legal costs not driven in off the market. Lawyers claimed the drug caused birth defects. Merrell Dow won most of the lawsuits, but paying the lawyers got too expensive. Two years after it was taken off the market, hospitalization due to dehydration resulting from morning sickness doubled. Birth defect rates remained unchanged.

Malpractice suits hurt patients. All doctors walk around in mortal fear of being sued. One of the most dangerous is obstetrics (pregnancy doctors, for those of you who attended government schools), with 76 percent of obstetricians being sued. That's because nothing makes a more sypathetic victim than a crying mother with a crippled baby. Bad things happen, but seriously, are 76 percent of all obstetricians bad and careless? For a firsthand example, let's go back to the pregnant ladies. How many of you had a C section? How many of you still bear that rather large scar? How painful was it? How much more so than natural childbirth? It may not have been necessary? Remeber John Edwards? The guy who wanted by be Poodle's vice president? He claimed that lack of oxygen to the brain during birth caused cerebral palsy. He claimed that doing a C section would have aided in this and prevented the palsy. He even went so far as to actually claim to channel the spirit of the child in one case, claiming to speak for the child at the time of birth (yes, it's outrageously retarded, but it won the plaintiff a $6.5 million reward). Since he started his antics in 1970, he's gotten $40-80 million richer, C sections have more than quadrupled, and the rate of CB is...unchanged. When asked if it was fair how many doctors got sued and had to pay up, famous doctor suer Dickie Scruggs replied, "Well, that's why they have insurance." The money comes from somewhere, and it's out of your pocket, and you also pay for lawyers planes, houses, and pools with having to be treated by a paranoid doctor.

Lawsuits suck the fun out of life. For those of you who have been around longer than others, notice a few things different? There are few 'swimming holes' anymore. Baseball players don't throw balls into the stands. Pools lack diving boards. Schools don't offer physical sports programs. All of these can be traced back to lawsuits, because even winning a lawsuit can suck you for everything you have. If the wrong person gets hurt on your property and was there with your permission, you could spend the rest of your life just paying your lawyer, much less an award.

Sexual harrassment suits make the world a colder place. With everything from a friendly embrace to a compliment to appearance being labeled as sexual harrassment or child molestation, everybody's afraid to be nice. Ever sit on your teacher's lap in elementary school? Think your kid gets to do that now?

Lawsuits create meaningless warnings. Every time you see something like "Do not use hairdryer while sleeping," or "Harmful if swallowed," on a hand sized fishing lure, there's a lawsuit behind it, and the suit and the relabeling costs YOU money.

Fast food didn't make you fat, you did. 'nuff said.

Anti-descrimination laws cause more than prevent descrimination. Ever see a two story strip club? Know why? Because it violates the Americans with Disabilities Act by not allowed wheelchair accessable lap dances...upstairs. If you're white, have you even been turned down for a job because the company had to meet some quota or be sued, even if you were far more qualified? If you're not white, have you ever been accused of only having a job because of your race? Stupid anti-descrimination lawsuits running rampant have made everybody so paranoid that they try to make everybody from their staff to their customers to even their suppliers a perfect cross-section of American demographics. That's descrimination.

Class action lawyers get rich off of our backs. Ever get a letter saying you're entitled to a small reward, usually less than $50, because some lawyer filed a class action suit on your behalf? That lawyer is now rich, and you'll pay back that $50 and then some making him that way due to increased prices.

Public interest lawyers force you to pay for their political beliefs. Public interest lawyers are lawyers who sue the government on behalf of 'the public.' Often, they're just looking to get rich with your money. One such example was a Chicago lawsuit filed on behalf of panhandlers. Essentially, the panhandlers got themselves lawyers and took a few bucks from the pockets of everybody who paid Chicago city taxes. He also made sure panhandling was constitutionally protected speech in Chicago, so next time you're in Chicago and some bum follows you for two blocks, swearing at you and getting in your way, you can thank the lawyers who made sure that you couldn't do anything about it.

Lawyers sue because they can. Every once in a while, a lawsuit comes around that corrects a great injustice. All the other 99.9% of lawsuits do nothing but make the lawyers richer and everybody else miserable.

The civil system is made by lawyers, for lawyers. The entire legal system has been remade by lawyers and, as such, it has been made illegal to offer any legal advice to anyone for pay unless you are a member of the Bar Association. The Bar Association, in turn, has kept things like the loser pays system from ever becoming law so that their sweet cash cow can be milked until Judgement Day.

Yeah, it's long, but I REALLY don't like lawyers, and that's why.

There is nothing wrong with defending people even if you know they are guilty. I used to think like you did then i realized that Christ defends us all the time and I dont know one person who can say they are innocent.

My problem comes when they want to bend/change the law or do something dishonest guilty clients off.

 

[Mr. P]

No problem with defending someone you know “is” guilty, with the exception of your own conscience of course.

Everyone needs to understand the defense attorneys’ job is to insure the State PROVES their case, before they impose fines, incarceration etc..

That goes way beyond whether defense attorneys know the guilt or innocence of their client.

It's a great system.

 

[Yurt]

Just wanted to say thanks. Opinions noted. Not here to change anyone's opinion, but some were wrong. Though, as stated above, not here to correct the opinions that were misinformed.

Only wanted a heads up.

In closing:

I think attorneys get a bad rap, some deserve it, but not all. Most professions have their black sheep. Attorney's are immune.

In my opinion, I think people don't like attorney's in general because most people consult attorneys at a time of trouble in their life. Hence the association.

Attorney's may not be like Doctors, e.g., "god," as I have heard people swipe at doctors, though it amazes me given they can save your life, yet, I can see it because some doctors act like "god." So is it with attorneys'. We don't "need" then until our "life" depends on it.

Give props where props are due. Attorney's are not as bad as most on this board make out. My post made a funny of the ACLU, but there are also bad doctors, but, you would not stop going to doctors because of one bad group of doctors. IMHO.

 

[Mr. P]

Just wanted to say thanks. Opinions noted. Not here to change anyone's opinion, but some were wrong. Though, as stated above, not here to correct the opinions that were misinformed.

Only wanted a heads up.

In closing:

I think attorneys get a bad rap, some deserve it, but not all. Most professions have their black sheep. Attorney's are immune.

In my opinion, I think people don't like attorney's in general because most people consult attorneys at a time of trouble in their life. Hence the association.

Attorney's may not be like Doctors, e.g., "god," as I have heard people swipe at doctors, though it amazes me given they can save your life, yet, I can see it because some doctors act like "god." So is it with attorneys'. We don't "need" then until our "life" depends on it.

Give props where props are due. Attorney's are not as bad as most on this board make out. My post made a funny of the ACLU, but there are also bad doctors, but, you would not stop going to doctors because of one bad group of doctors. IMHO.

I think you pretty much get it..

 

[Yurt]

I think you pretty much get it..

True. Hence why I have not made another post on the subject. Didn't start the thread to make waves, just curious from the folks on this site. Like the replies, honest.

Again, thanks.