Latest Ukrainian Peace Plan From the US...Ukraine Surrenders, NATO Cannot Expand; Russia Gives Up Nothing.

[Zavulon]

In the mid-1990s we did not need a base in Romania to use nuclear weapons... and we did not.

The problem is not in usage of nukes per se. The problem is in the survival after such an attack.

In the mid-1990s there were too many missiles, they were not accurate enough and anti-sub technologies were not good enough for the good counter-force strike. And no, you still need medium-range missiles in Europe to attack Russia fast enough to prevent retaliative launch under attack.
Even now, even for Russia, counter-force strike is a gambling (with good chances to survive and win, but still gambling).

In the mid-1990s we had forward bases in Germany and Turkey to engage conventionally... and we did not.

Oh, my sweet summer child. Do you still believe in non-nuclear deterrence?

The US (and NATO) have no interest in taking-away Russian territory.

Genocide of Russian people (decolonisation of Russian Federation) is one of officially declared EU goals. And, of course, you are officially interested in taking away at least Ukraine and Belarus, who are definitely parts of Russia.
Actually, some parts of Russia are already officially (but temporarily) occupied by NATO countries, like Russian America, half of Red Russia and Black Russia.

Russia, however, has consistently shown great interest in taking the territory of others... Russian Lebensraum.

No. We are not interested in taking the territory of others. We are just returning what is rightfully our.

No... we did not hire proxies... we had very little involvement there until you miserable bastards invaded in 2014.

Of course you hired them.

And then your second illegal aggression against Ukraine in February 2022 destroyed what little credibility you had.

It was absolutely legal act of collective self-defense.

Nowadays, nobody trusts you, and your westerly neighbors are now arming themselves to the teeth to fend you off.

No problem. You don't trust us, we don't trust you, so, let's just fight until unconditional surrender (or virtually total annihilation) of one of the sides.

We will join them in maintaining a close watch... if you attack them we will phukk you up.

Really? As well as you protected governments of Southern Vietnam and Afghanistan?

No. Your boy Putin miscalculated. He phukked-up. He can now explain his incompetence to the Russian People.

Hey, your obsession with Putin's personality is really funny. As if you actually believe in all those political shows.

You're going to be sitting by yourself at that table for a long, long time...

We'll see.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It is not any kind of inferiority complex. In some way it is "superiority complex" (especially amongst religious people). You know, something like "We, Russians, are the choosen ones, we are the Third Rome (protector of the only True Christianity), the Communist Camp (future of Humanity), the Defenders of Traditional values (the last stronghold of pure Humanity) and so on, and, therefore all evil things living on our planet (like Satanists, Capitalists, Perverts, etc) want to eliminate us". I'm an apolitical atheist, I don't actually believe in all those things, I more prone to the Geographic Determinism, and I think, that Western Barbarians want to genocide us mostly to take our natural resources. And we, century after century, crush their spines.

Yes, I think that this act of mercy was a mistake, too, but many people believe that mercy is more important than justice.


Of course Russia gave them freedom, willingly and openly dissmissed Warsaw Pact. And how did they answered on this jesture of goodwill?


Actually, Russia was just too good and kind those years. We didn't inspired enough of fear and terror in their rotten souls.


Thats what they actually do. They support genocide of Russians in Ukraine.

Of course Russia gave them freedom, willingly and openly dissmissed Warsaw Pact.

Couldn't afford it anymore.

You're on the ash heap of history.

Thats what they actually do. They support genocide of Russians in Ukraine.

It's true, the Russians in Ukraine need to move to Russia.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It was absolutely legal act of collective self-defense.

Like NATO?

 

[Zavulon]

Like NATO?

Yes. "Attack against one of us means an attack against all of us". Ukraine attacked DPR and LPR, and, it was legally equal to attack against Russian Federation itself. As well as Russian attack against, say, Polant, might be considered to attack against the USA.

 

[Zavulon]

Of course Russia gave them freedom, willingly and openly dissmissed Warsaw Pact.

Couldn't afford it anymore.

You're on the ash heap of history.

Not yet.

Thats what they actually do. They support genocide of Russians in Ukraine.

It's true, the Russians in Ukraine need to move to Russia.

Yep. That's exactly what they are doing. They are moving to Russia. They just take their land and their property with them.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Ringo]

As if NATO didn't provide plenty of evidence that Russia should eliminate NATO.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Formerly enslaved nations joined NATO to protect themselves from their enslaver.

Outrageous!

 

[Zavulon]

Formerly enslaved nations joined NATO to protect themselves from their enslaver.

Outrageous!

Perpetual agressors have joined one more time to go, as usual, in their Northern Crusade and, as usual, to be beaten and raped. But, quite possibly, this time will the last time they try to genocide us.

And yes, some animals should be kept in cages. They can't live freely in the decent human society.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Perpetual agressors have joined one more time to go, as usual, in their Northern Crusade and, as usual, to be beaten and raped. But, quite possibly, this time will the last time they try to genocide us.

And yes, some animals should be kept in cages. They can't live freely in the decent human society.

Russia occupied Poland, because Poland attacked Russia in 1939?

 

[TemplarKormac]

AP Reporting:

Ukraine would cede territory to Russia in draft of Trump peace plan obtained by AP

President Donald Trump’s plan for ending the war in Ukraine would cede territory to Russia and limit the size of Kyiv’s military, according to a draft proposal obtained by The Associated Press.

apnews.com

Some highlights (or lowlights) from the article:

• For example, the proposal would not only bar Ukraine from joining NATO but would also prevent the alliance’s future expansion. Such a step would be a significant victory for Moscow, which views NATO as a threat.
• Putin would also gain ground he has been unable to win on the battlefield. Under the draft, Moscow would hold all the eastern Donbas region, even though approximately 14% still remains in Ukrainian hands. Ukraine’s military, currently at roughly 880,000 troops, would be reduced to 600,000.
• Under the proposal, Russia would commit to making no future attacks, something the White House views as a concession.
• Russia would also be allowed to keep half of the power generated by Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, Zaporizhzhia, which it captured from Ukraine early during the war.

There seems to be little in it for Ukraine or the US. One has to wonder on what planet such a plan ever saw the light of day.

War is what it is. It has been like this for millennia.

If peace is truly what Ukraine wants, surrender might be its only option. That or let pride keep killing more of its men, women, and children.

 

[candycorn]

War is what it is. It has been like this for millennia.

If peace is truly what Ukraine wants, surrender might be its only option. That or let pride keep killing more of its men, women, and children.

In the old days we had axis and allies. They stopped aggression instead of giving in.

 

[Zavulon]

Russia occupied Poland, because Poland attacked Russia in 1939?

No. In 1939 Russia liberated Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, previously occupied by Poland, because Poland, allied with Germany attacked Russian ally, Czechoslovakia, in 1938 and because Polish state de facto ceased its existence. In 1945 Russia "occupied" Poland because there were a lot of Poles in German Army, including all-Polish Brygada Świętokrzyska, and lack of loyalty in Army of Anders.
Nothing to mention Polish genocide of Russian people in early XX and XVII centuries.

 

[Zavulon]

In the old days we had axis and allies. They stopped aggression instead of giving in.

Don't worry. Looks like we going directly into proper WWIII.

 

[AntonToo]

The conspiracy theories you press, dummy.

https://www.gao.gov/ukraine-oversight

“… Other federal agencies have worked to address the economic and humanitarian needs of people affected by the invasion—including direct budget support to the Ukrainian government,
humanitarian assistance within Ukraine and to Ukrainian refugees in neighboring countries, and recovery assistance (such as repairing the energy grid and improving the country’s health sector).”

• Tracking funding. The State Department doesn't have a systematic, comprehensive approach to specifically track funding that federal agencies have provided for economic and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine. For example, State provided assistance to other countries affected by the crisis but didn't consistently include this assistance when tracking Ukraine-related funding.

The cash was flowing, dummy, without any real oversight.

You will have to claim you’re a dummy for being so stupid.

Dum dum, not a word of that is about military aid, which is sent primarily as heavy weapons, so there is obviously no way for someone to use it for anything except it's military purpose.

 

[Hollie]

Dum dum, not a word of that is about military aid, which is sent primarily as heavy weapons, so there is obviously no way for someone to use it for anything except it's military purpose.

Moron, my post identified boatloads of cash being sent to the Ukies in connection with a current scandal involving fraud in their government.

Pay attention to the context of posts so you don’t continue to be a total buffoon.

 

[Kondor3]

...Genocide of Russian people (decolonisation of Russian Federation) is one of officially declared EU goals..

Link, please, to an official EU source... otherwise, we'll all judge that as rubbish...

...And, of course, you are officially interested in taking away at least Ukraine and Belarus, who are definitely parts of Russia...

Both Belarus and Ukraine are sovereign nations...

You Russian scum have a centuries-long history of committing genocide against Ukrainians...

The dictator of Belarus has his nose so far up Putin's a$$ that you probably have no worries on that one...

The Ukrainians should be asked whether or not they want to be part of your second-rate Federation...

And, judging by how fiercely and valiantly and effectively they've defended themselves against you, the vote is already "in"...

...Actually, some parts of Russia are already officially (but temporarily) occupied by NATO countries, like Russian America, half of Red Russia and Black Russia....

You lying sacks-of-$hit are delusional and, from this moment onwards, will be *****-slapped every time you make a move to take territory that is not yours.

No. We are not interested in taking the territory of others. We are just returning what is rightfully our.

Bull$hit... you people are liars... and you already have the largest country (measured by land-mass) in the world...

Although your population is half the size or less of the US or the EU and you're destroying your younger generation...

You are like pigs at a feeding trough... always with your noses in the $hit and your feed and always oinking for more...

You have enough... you're done... and The West is done with your bloodthirsty greed and Nazi-like Lebensraum tactics...

Like Adolf Hitler trying to overpower an unwilling Czechoslovakia in 1938...

Herr Putin is trying to overpower an unwilling Ukraine in 2022-2025...

Stupidly, and arrogantly, Hitler played the Bully Card once too often, and Herr Putin has reached that same precipice...

Of course you hired them.

More feverish, delusional, ignorant Russian lies...

...It was absolutely legal act of collective self-defense...

Well, that's what your Dictator-President and your Anti-Christ Politician-Churchmen tell you... even though it's not true...

...No problem. You don't trust us, we don't trust you, so, let's just fight until unconditional surrender (or virtually total annihilation) of one of the sides...

You people can't even take Ukraine nowadays, never mind standing-up against the US... or The West... in a stand-up fight...

You have to empty your prisons and conscript your younglings and old men and beg foreign dictators for troops and weapons...

You are a joke... the only thing keeping you in-the-game is your large arsenal of nuclear weapons...

And if you're stupid enough to use those it will be the end of us but it will be the end of Russia as well, so...

If you feel "froggy", go ahead and "jump"...

Russia is the Trailer Trash of the developed world, and that's a damned shame, because it didn't have to be that way...

But it was your choice... to submit once against to a Czar-in-all-but-name... you lack the courage and skill to govern yourselves...

You people just keep stupidly doing the same thing over-and-over again and expecting different results each time...

You stand for nothing but your own greed and Lebensraum ambitions and have lost the trust and friendship of so many...

And you have to go hat-in-hand like street beggars asking the North Koreans and the Chinese for help....

Tragic, and, oddly enough, hilarious at the same time...

Really? As well as you protected governments of Southern Vietnam and Afghanistan?

No. Much better. Especially considering our close ethnic relationship to the peoples of Europe amongst our own.

North America IS Nova Europa... we ARE the inheritors and descendants and close-cousins to Europe.

We protect Close Family far more ferociously and reliably than we do distant strangers with little in common.

And, Western countries, including the US, proudly boast a citizenship that includes many millions of Russians and Ukrainians and their descendants to are fond of their ancestral homeland but who have no love whatsoever for you.

We - including your distant cousins - defend the West ferociously.

You knew this long ago when you decided against sending your old Soviet armored formations through the Fulda Gap.

Hey, your obsession with Putin's personality is really funny. As if you actually believe in all those political shows.

He barely registers except as an old fading bare-chested macho-man dictator maneuvering to recapture the Soviet Empire.

He will die a disappointed old Soviet Secret Policeman.

We'll see.

Indeed we will, Tvaritch.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No. In 1939 Russia liberated Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, previously occupied by Poland, because Poland, allied with Germany attacked Russian ally, Czechoslovakia, in 1938 and because Polish state de facto ceased its existence. In 1945 Russia "occupied" Poland because there were a lot of Poles in German Army, including all-Polish Brygada Świętokrzyska, and lack of loyalty in Army of Anders.
Nothing to mention Polish genocide of Russian people in early XX and XVII centuries.

Poland, allied with Germany attacked Russian ally, Czechoslovakia,

Is that why Russia was allied with Germany?

 

[AntonToo]

Moron, my post identified boatloads of cash being sent to the Ukies in connection with a current scandal involving fraud in their government.

Pay attention to the context of posts so you don’t continue to be a total buffoon.

Moron, none of that explains Trump's refusal to provide Ukraine military support that was never subject to any fraud from Ukrainian side.

 

[Hollie]

Moron, none of that explains Trump's refusal to provide Ukraine military support that was never subject to any fraud.

Moron, Trump Has supplied the Ukies with military equipment.

You’re both a moron and an uninformed moron.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5506847-ukraine-receives-lethal-aid/