Kissinger, Nixon and Vietnam

Hawk1981

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Apr 1, 2020
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Criticism endures that the deal reached in 1973 between the United States and North Vietnam could have been reached as early as 1969, shortly after President Nixon took office. The provisions of the agreement called for a cease-fire, the withdrawal of American troops from South Vietnam, an exchange of prisoners, and the make-up of a new South Vietnamese government to be decided by a commission made up of South Vietnamese officials and their communist opponents.

When Richard Nixon and National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger came into office there were hopes that a new diplomacy would lead the US out of the war. Both the President and his adviser entered the White House convinced that growing public disenchantment with overseas involvements, the increasing costs of the arms race, and the emergence of new centers of power around the world, made the old rivalries that the US maintained increasingly damaging. Nixon had pledged in the recent Republican Convention to embark on an era of negotiation rather than confrontation.

Kissinger for his part, had proposed in a paper published in Foreign Affairs just prior to Nixon's inauguration, that the United States 'define' its way out of Vietnam. Since the US needed a victory of sorts to get out while maintaining 'face,' why not define the goal in minimal terms, and aim at something that could be easily accomplished. Kissinger wrote that there should be a sharp distinction between military and political objectives. The political questions about the future makeup of the South Vietnamese government, the fate of the Thieu regime, the future timing and form of elections, would be left to Saigon and the National Liberation Front (NLF). The US and the regime in Hanoi, as outside powers, would step back from the internal process of South Vietnamese and NLF negotiations.

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Once in office, Nixon and Kissinger reverted to a harder line. The new course for "Vietnamization" and "Peace With Honor" could not include the dishonorable abandonment of our South Vietnamese allies. The Paris Peace talks would not be conducted on the "double-track" that Kissinger had just proposed, but in endless general sessions where every issue would be discussed by every party. Elections and guarantees for self-determination in the South would only be achieved as the result of American efforts.

The old arguments won out, the United States couldn't be seen as unilaterally withdrawing from Vietnam. That act would weaken its honor and cripple its ability to bargain with both its allies and, more importantly, its Cold War enemies. As Kissinger stated to a group of editor in Chicago in September, 1970, "A great deal of the peace and stability [in the world] depends on the confidence other people have in the American promise and in the American performance. If the United States utterly fails in something that it has undertaken with so much effort, it is bound to affect the judgment of other countries as to the degree to which the United States can be significant in their areas.”

Kissinger later admitted that the administration's policy had to appease both the political Right, who were substantial in number, and felt that we shouldn't lose; and the political opponents of the war who welcomed the unilateral withdraw of US troops, but rather than grant the Nixon administration time to develop a new strategy simply increased pressure for more military drawdowns.

Nixon and Kissinger were caught up in the old assumptions that America's unchallengeable might and her record of success in conflicts was what preserved the peace. The cost of maintaining that record was the continued maintenance of a long frustrating war against an enemy that insisted on total victory. So the war continued.
 
We should have gotten out in 1964

We should have never gotten involved helping the French return to power as the ruling colonial master after WWII. We paid 80% of French expenses in their losing War with HoChiMinh’s VietMinh, even though we had worked with him in his fight against Japanese imperialism.

HoChiMinh’s National revolutionary movement had declared independence in Hanoi in 1945. Before tens of thousands he had purposefully quoted the American Declaration of Independence — in a clear signal to the U.S. that he wanted a good relationship with Washington. But the U.S. wasn’t interested, or just not paying attention. After all, Ho was a “nothing communist” in a poor Asian country.

But to Vietnamese, HoChiMinh was already famous, a multi-lingual national leader and scholar. He had traveled the world, even living and working in Europe and the U.S. He wanted what he thought was best for his country. His movement’s fate of course would be connected to the developing revolution and civil war in next door China. Ho needed to continue getting assistance from Russia. He also wanted to keep trade and an open door to France, the U.S. and the West.

By the time Nixon & Kissinger came along, HoChiMinh was already an old man. He was no longer really in control of the Vietnamese liberation struggle. Other men, less deeply cultured, hardened by decades of war, were now in charge.
 
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Vietnam fought the Japanese during WWII. After the war, they expected independence. Especially since France did nothing to protect their “colony” against invasion.

Instead of siding with liberty and freedom after the war, the US sided with colonialism

This opened the door to communism
 
I want to expand upon my earlier point that the history of U.S.-Vietnamese relations goes back to 1945 and the Post-WWII “Declaration of Independence” made by HoChiMinh’s forces in Hanoi. Actually the story properly begins earlier, at the Versailles Peace Treaty negotiations in 1919, where the young HoChiMinh appealed to President Wilson and the West to honor commitments made to respect “self-determination” of peoples under Wilson’s famous “14 Points.”

At that time HoChiMinh was not even asking for immediate independence. Given neither a hearing nor a response, but subjected to French police interrogations, Ho went on to found the Vietnamese Communist Party the following year. Here is a short article about this history, known to almost every Vietnamese schoolchild, yet all but forgotten in the West:

 
Yeah but it was LBJ's fake "Tonkin Gulf Crisis" that got us into the quagmire.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :banana:
Yeah but it was LBJ's fake "Tonkin Gulf Crisis" that got us into the quagmire.
:clap: :clap: :clap: Indeed,Lbj and Nixon were the ones who murdered over 58,ooo Americans,it wasn’t the Vietcong or the nova,it wasthose two bastards,Lbj with his fake Tonkin gulf crisis and Nixon expanding the war. As the op said so well,Nixon could have ended the war in 69 if he wanted to so enough of thisfake history bullshit that he ended the war already.had he had his way and it weren’t for the hippies march on Washington the war would have dragged on and on several years. Nixon sabotaged Johnson’s Paris peace talks to end the war as well heand johnson are burining in hell right now.
 
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We should have gotten out in 1964
I will go one further and say we should never have been there in the first place. That was Americas second biggest mistake in the lat 75 years
OK, I’ll bite

What was the biggest?
Electing Obama what else could it be
Obama was the greatest President in the last 50 years
Trumpers will say the same thing about Don. You are no different from them, just slightly dumber.
 
We should have gotten out in 1964
Had JFK not been ruthlessly murdered by a cabal of criminals, we would have.
JFK would have followed the same path that LBJ did in Vietnam

He had the same advisors
Many disagree, but you wouldn’t know this.

Those who martyr JFK think he is incapable of making a wrong decision. Any President in 1965 would have done the same as LBJ. Nixon, Goldwater AND JFK would not have passed on an opportunity to fight communism. It would have ruined their careers
 
We should have gotten out in 1964
Had JFK not been ruthlessly murdered by a cabal of criminals, we would have.
JFK would have followed the same path that LBJ did in Vietnam

He had the same advisors
Many disagree, but you wouldn’t know this.

Those who martyr JFK think he is incapable of making a wrong decision. Any President in 1965 would have done the same as LBJ. Nixon, Goldwater AND JFK would not have passed on an opportunity to fight communism. It would have ruined their careers
You’re uninformed. JFK changed dramatically while in the White House, from his days as a hardened cold warrior. He gave a speech not long before he was murdered, that people like you ignore. Guess what? It’s call the Peace Speech. He also was covertly negotiating with Khrushchev to end the Cold War. He was in constant disagreement with the JCS and many others in his administration who wanted war. He intended to pull out of Vietnam as soon as he was re-elected. All these things are ignored or minimized by people like you.
 
We should have gotten out in 1964
Had JFK not been ruthlessly murdered by a cabal of criminals, we would have.
JFK would have followed the same path that LBJ did in Vietnam

He had the same advisors
Many disagree, but you wouldn’t know this.

Those who martyr JFK think he is incapable of making a wrong decision. Any President in 1965 would have done the same as LBJ. Nixon, Goldwater AND JFK would not have passed on an opportunity to fight communism. It would have ruined their careers
You’re uninformed. JFK changed dramatically while in the White House, from his days as a hardened cold warrior. He gave a speech not long before he was murdered, that people like you ignore. Guess what? It’s call the Peace Speech. He also was covertly negotiating with Khrushchev to end the Cold War. He was in constant disagreement with the JCS and many others in his administration who wanted war. He intended to pull out of Vietnam as soon as he was re-elected. All these things are ignored or minimized by people like you.
Yea...everyone was advocating peace in Vietnam in 1963.
Then Diem was assassinated (three weeks before JFK) and the South went into turmoil. North Vietnam was on the verge of overtaking the South unless they received military aid.

LBJ wanted no part of putting American troops on the ground. But he was adamant that “Vietnam won’t turn communist on my watch” and his military advisers and Secretary of Defense MacNamara (same as LBJ had) all said we needed a few ground troops to turn back the tide and we would be home by Christmas.

LBJ took the bait. So would have JFK
 
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