Justice Roberts second guesses policy making decision on census, violates separation of powers

[GreenAndBlue]

Nice reply but it is totally irrelevant to my post.

Of course it's relevant... Misspelled, but relevant.

You suggest that an official government function should be limited because it might result in criminals either falsifying official documents or ignoring those documents because they don't wish to be caught committing a crime.

First of all, the purpose of census is to count the number of people who reside in each state. That includes everyone, citizens, legal and illegal aliens, students here of student visas, people with work visas, people on vacations form other countries, criminals in institutions, the homeless, residents temporarily in other locations, even people in ICE detention camps. If they are human and in the US, they are to be counted. That is what the census statues require as well as the Constitution. Any other questions asked are for statistical purposes.

Second, a census is constructed such that it will not discourage people from responding which would be contrary to the purpose of census. The purpose of the census is to count every one in each state. That is why the census bureau constructs a very simple non-threatening document that is likely to get most responses.

The census bureau does a number of surveys each year asking questions on many subject. Any time questions are asked about citizenship, response are low. Therefore it we want maximum number of responses, we do not ask questions about citizenship. Citizenship questions should be asked on surveys, not the census.

Wrong dead wrong


That system counts citizens of other nations


Which proves its totally BS


World populations would get counted totally wrong and learning would be stopped from counting wrong


How can there be learning if people are counted more than onece

Research on what brings health harm would fall apart with incorrect counting

Anyone like above that says counting vacationers is flat nuts and spewing total BS

Humanity needs correct counts to help understand many issues. Covering that up is outrageously corrupt

Another way to see how this is total BS is if a person is in New York and a census taker comes by and asks how many people is in the house... He gets that number and gives New York another person and then that person flies to Florida and a census taker asks how many in the house and the New Yorker is there and gets counted twice once for New York and another for Florida

This just shows how crooked the democrats and deep state people are

Total liars

 

[Flopper]

Nice reply but it is totally irrelevant to my post.

Of course it's relevant... Misspelled, but relevant.

You suggest that an official government function should be limited because it might result in criminals either falsifying official documents or ignoring those documents because they don't wish to be caught committing a crime.

First of all, the purpose of census is to count the number of people who reside in each state. That includes everyone, citizens, legal and illegal aliens, students here of student visas, people with work visas, people on vacations form other countries, criminals in institutions, the homeless, residents temporarily in other locations, even people in ICE detention camps. If they are human and in the US, they are to be counted. That is what the census statues require as well as the Constitution. Any other questions asked are for statistical purposes.

Second, a census is constructed such that it will not discourage people from responding which would be contrary to the purpose of census. The purpose of the census is to count every one in each state. That is why the census bureau constructs a very simple non-threatening document that is likely to get most responses.

The census bureau does a number of surveys each year asking questions on many subject. Any time questions are asked about citizenship, response are low. Therefore it we want maximum number of responses, we do not ask questions about citizenship. Citizenship questions should be asked on surveys, not the census.

Wrong dead wrong


That system counts citizens of other nations


Which proves its totally BS


World populations would get counted totally wrong and learning would be stopped from counting wrong


How can there be learning if people are counted more than onece

Research on what brings health harm would fall apart with incorrect counting

Anyone like above that says counting vacationers is flat nuts and spewing total BS

Humanity needs correct counts to help understand many issues. Covering that up is outrageously corrupt

Another way to see how this is total BS is if a person is in New York and a census taker comes by and asks how many people is in the house... He gets that number and gives New York another person and then that person flies to Florida and a census taker asks how many in the house and the New Yorker is there and gets counted twice once for New York and another for Florida

This just shows how crooked the democrats and deep state people are

Total liars

The census asked who is living in the domicile on April 1, 2020. In your example, if the person is living in New York on April 1st, he will be counted as a resident of New York. If he moves to Florida after April 1st, he will not be counted. The goal of the census is count every one but to count them only once and in the domicile that they lived in on the census date.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It appears with all the noise about the question “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” we are overlooking Justice Roberts has usurped legislative power by second guessing a legitimate policy making decision.

In regard to this assumption of power Justice Stone reminds us that:

”The power of courts to declare a statute unconstitutional is subject to two guiding principles of decision which ought never to be absent from judicial consciousness. One is that courts are concerned only with the power to enact statutes, not with their wisdom. The other is that while unconstitutional exercise of power by the executive and legislative branches of the government is subject to judicial restraint, the only check upon our own exercise of power is our own sense of self-restraint. For the removal of unwise laws from the statute books appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)


Additionally, the court in Hillis v. Department of Ecology, 131 Wash. 2d 373, 932 P.2d 139 (1997) pointed out:


”Just because we [the courts] do not think the legislators have acted wisely or responsibly does not give us the right to assume their duties or to substitute our judgment for theirs.”

And, in ELDRED et al. v. ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL (2003) the court unmistakably confirmed:

…..we are not at liberty to second-guess congressional determinations and policy judgments of this order, however debatable or arguably unwise they may be…The wisdom of Congress' action, however, is not within our province to second guess.



And finally, Justice Black, quite eloquently addressed the issue as follows:

"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968


The bottom line is, Justice Obamacare-Roberts has repeatedly violate the most fundamental cannons and principles of our constitutionally limited system of government and the fundamental rules of constitutional construction by interfering with a legitimate question being replaced on our census form . . . “Is this person a citizen of the United States?”

JWK

Without a Fifth Column Media and Yellow Journalism [ourMSM], the crisis at our southern border would never have grown to what now amounts to an outright invasion and threatens the general welfare of the United States.

Makes you wonder what blackmail material Obama had Brennan dig up on Roberts

 

[MAGAman]

‘The Census Bureau’s November presentation quoted one researcher: “The politics have changed everything recently.” Immigrants — not just unauthorized immigrants but some types of legal immigrants as well — are highly anxious about their security under Trump and leery of interacting with any government officials as a result. And if US-born Latinos were skeptical of the government in 2010, they are likely to be even more skeptical now.’

The Supreme Court’s census ruling, explained

Yet another disastrous consequence of Trump’s reckless, irresponsible immigration policy.

An unnamed person was allegedly quoted.
.
Woopty-do.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Nice reply but it is totally irrelevant to my post.

Of course it's relevant... Misspelled, but relevant.

You suggest that an official government function should be limited because it might result in criminals either falsifying official documents or ignoring those documents because they don't wish to be caught committing a crime.

First of all, the purpose of census is to count the number of people who reside in each state. That includes everyone, citizens, legal and illegal aliens, students here of student visas, people with work visas, people on vacations form other countries, criminals in institutions, the homeless, residents temporarily in other locations, even people in ICE detention camps. If they are human and in the US, they are to be counted. That is what the census statues require as well as the Constitution. Any other questions asked are for statistical purposes.

Second, a census is constructed such that it will not discourage people from responding which would be contrary to the purpose of census. The purpose of the census is to count every one in each state. That is why the census bureau constructs a very simple non-threatening document that is likely to get most responses.

The census bureau does a number of surveys each year asking questions on many subject. Any time questions are asked about citizenship, response are low. Therefore it we want maximum number of responses, we do not ask questions about citizenship. Citizenship questions should be asked on surveys, not the census.

Wrong dead wrong


That system counts citizens of other nations


Which proves its totally BS


World populations would get counted totally wrong and learning would be stopped from counting wrong


How can there be learning if people are counted more than onece

Research on what brings health harm would fall apart with incorrect counting

Anyone like above that says counting vacationers is flat nuts and spewing total BS

Humanity needs correct counts to help understand many issues. Covering that up is outrageously corrupt

Another way to see how this is total BS is if a person is in New York and a census taker comes by and asks how many people is in the house... He gets that number and gives New York another person and then that person flies to Florida and a census taker asks how many in the house and the New Yorker is there and gets counted twice once for New York and another for Florida

This just shows how crooked the democrats and deep state people are

Total liars

The census asked who is living in the domicile on April 1, 2020. In your example, if the person is living in New York on April 1st, he will be counted as a resident of New York. If he moves to Florida after April 1st, he will not be counted. The goal of the census is count every one but to count them only once and in the domicile that they lived in on the census date.

This BS and the Epstein scandal proves the democrats are the most corrupt group of people in human history and now they are caught and are going down

 

[GreenAndBlue]

It appears with all the noise about the question “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” we are overlooking Justice Roberts has usurped legislative power by second guessing a legitimate policy making decision.

In regard to this assumption of power Justice Stone reminds us that:

”The power of courts to declare a statute unconstitutional is subject to two guiding principles of decision which ought never to be absent from judicial consciousness. One is that courts are concerned only with the power to enact statutes, not with their wisdom. The other is that while unconstitutional exercise of power by the executive and legislative branches of the government is subject to judicial restraint, the only check upon our own exercise of power is our own sense of self-restraint. For the removal of unwise laws from the statute books appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)


Additionally, the court in Hillis v. Department of Ecology, 131 Wash. 2d 373, 932 P.2d 139 (1997) pointed out:


”Just because we [the courts] do not think the legislators have acted wisely or responsibly does not give us the right to assume their duties or to substitute our judgment for theirs.”

And, in ELDRED et al. v. ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL (2003) the court unmistakably confirmed:

…..we are not at liberty to second-guess congressional determinations and policy judgments of this order, however debatable or arguably unwise they may be…The wisdom of Congress' action, however, is not within our province to second guess.



And finally, Justice Black, quite eloquently addressed the issue as follows:

"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968


The bottom line is, Justice Obamacare-Roberts has repeatedly violate the most fundamental cannons and principles of our constitutionally limited system of government and the fundamental rules of constitutional construction by interfering with a legitimate question being replaced on our census form . . . “Is this person a citizen of the United States?”

JWK

Without a Fifth Column Media and Yellow Journalism [ourMSM], the crisis at our southern border would never have grown to what now amounts to an outright invasion and threatens the general welfare of the United States.

Makes you wonder what blackmail material Obama had Brennan dig up on Roberts

Part of the Epstein sex scandal ??

 

[eagle1462010]

Republicans fucked themselves on this by using any excuse to justify the question and acting as if the idea of a deliberate under-count of the census never occurred to them. No one likes to be bullshitted to their face.

Question 13 in 2000.................Did Clinton fuck himself also........

Bunch of Drama Queens on the left. Going...........HOW DARE YOU ask Illegals if they are citizens...........We want them to count to get power.......we need replacements for all the real Americans in Cali who are hauling ass out of there.

 

[wamose]

The removal of the citizenship question amounts to election tampering more than any gerrymandering or Russian meddling ever did. Not only that, but the flood of illegals and phony refugees that it encourages is destroying our country. And the only reason we're allowing it is because Democrats are getting a big electoral advantage from this invasion. There's nothing compassionate or fair about it and it will certainly destroy our economy if it continues. If you want to talk about fairness, lets talk about citizens of this country who are having their votes unfairly negated by illegal alien voters. Lets talk about the depressed wages and higher taxes that result from illegals. If a state wants to allow slave labor, they shouldn't be rewarded with a higher rate of representation. And as a taxpayer, I sure as hell don't want to subsidize illegal aliens or any state that promotes them in any way. We have our own poor people who should be our first priority.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It appears with all the noise about the question “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” we are overlooking Justice Roberts has usurped legislative power by second guessing a legitimate policy making decision.

In regard to this assumption of power Justice Stone reminds us that:

”The power of courts to declare a statute unconstitutional is subject to two guiding principles of decision which ought never to be absent from judicial consciousness. One is that courts are concerned only with the power to enact statutes, not with their wisdom. The other is that while unconstitutional exercise of power by the executive and legislative branches of the government is subject to judicial restraint, the only check upon our own exercise of power is our own sense of self-restraint. For the removal of unwise laws from the statute books appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)


Additionally, the court in Hillis v. Department of Ecology, 131 Wash. 2d 373, 932 P.2d 139 (1997) pointed out:


”Just because we [the courts] do not think the legislators have acted wisely or responsibly does not give us the right to assume their duties or to substitute our judgment for theirs.”

And, in ELDRED et al. v. ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL (2003) the court unmistakably confirmed:

…..we are not at liberty to second-guess congressional determinations and policy judgments of this order, however debatable or arguably unwise they may be…The wisdom of Congress' action, however, is not within our province to second guess.



And finally, Justice Black, quite eloquently addressed the issue as follows:

"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968


The bottom line is, Justice Obamacare-Roberts has repeatedly violate the most fundamental cannons and principles of our constitutionally limited system of government and the fundamental rules of constitutional construction by interfering with a legitimate question being replaced on our census form . . . “Is this person a citizen of the United States?”

JWK

Without a Fifth Column Media and Yellow Journalism [ourMSM], the crisis at our southern border would never have grown to what now amounts to an outright invasion and threatens the general welfare of the United States.

Makes you wonder what blackmail material Obama had Brennan dig up on Roberts

Part of the Epstein sex scandal ??

Who can say? Maybe he went to Obama's Foamy Parties at the Chicago bathhouses

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The removal of the citizenship question amounts to election tampering more than any gerrymandering or Russian meddling ever did. Not only that, but the flood of illegals and phony refugees that it encourages is destroying our country. And the only reason we're allowing it is because Democrats are getting a big electoral advantage from this invasion. There's nothing compassionate or fair about it and it will certainly destroy our economy if it continues. If you want to talk about fairness, lets talk about citizens of this country who are having their votes unfairly negated by illegal alien voters. Lets talk about the depressed wages and higher taxes that result from illegals. If a state wants to allow slave labor, they shouldn't be rewarded with a higher rate of representation. And as a taxpayer, I sure as hell don't want to subsidize illegal aliens or any state that promotes them in any way. We have our own poor people who should be our first priority.

The democrat Party WANTS to destroy America, that's why they NEED Illegals and their sex trafficked children

 

[wamose]

The removal of the citizenship question amounts to election tampering more than any gerrymandering or Russian meddling ever did. Not only that, but the flood of illegals and phony refugees that it encourages is destroying our country. And the only reason we're allowing it is because Democrats are getting a big electoral advantage from this invasion. There's nothing compassionate or fair about it and it will certainly destroy our economy if it continues. If you want to talk about fairness, lets talk about citizens of this country who are having their votes unfairly negated by illegal alien voters. Lets talk about the depressed wages and higher taxes that result from illegals. If a state wants to allow slave labor, they shouldn't be rewarded with a higher rate of representation. And as a taxpayer, I sure as hell don't want to subsidize illegal aliens or any state that promotes them in any way. We have our own poor people who should be our first priority.

The democrat Party WANTS to destroy America, that's why they NEED Illegals and their sex trafficked children

I wonder if Billy boy Clinton will get swept up in the Epstein sex charges. He had 30 something documented trips to Epstein's pedophile island and anyone with half a brain knew what that was about.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

And this scandal maybe the reason that Roberts has totally gone off the rails of making judgements based on logic and law

He maybe blackmailed

Roberts gave his reason why he voted with Obama on obamacare ... His reason was that we the people elected him and it's the voters that elected him to do HIS agenda

So that was Roberts reason which he went opposite with trump who also was elected by we the people

Which proves Roberts is corrupt to the core

 

[Care4all]

But I digress, reading sec 2 of the 14th A. in the context of your question, I can only see a reference to Native Americans ("Indians not taxed");

Did you miss this:


But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.


JWK

I read it four times, my only take away is those who fought for the Confederacy and other criminals will reduce the numbers and thus impact redistricting. Unless you've equated those who cross the boarder have committed a crime. if so, keep in mind that is a civil issue, unless the person crosses the border after once being deported.

Wry, I read up on it and the purpose of section 2 of the 14th...

it specifically says that taking their proportionate number of Representatives away from the States for their nefarious actions, is the POWER given to the federal government to punish States for not following all of the provisions in the 14th giving Black men the right to vote....

This was meant as a deterrent, to keep the States from disenfranchising Black men of their vote...

Let me see if I can find the Legal Article on it....when I do, I will post it.

 

[Westender]

I dont get it. Why would you want non citizens to fill out our census. I live in a tourist area with numerous Europeans visiting, why would we want tourist, visitors, or criminal occupiers filling out our census?

Tourists and visitors to our nation don't fill out the census.

It's sent to an address. The person who lives at that address fills out the form.

Visitors and tourists don't live here so they don't fill out the form.

You know this yet you posted that ridiculous post and made a fool of yourself to every intelligent person reading this thread.

The census isn't to count all citizens of this nation. It's to count all residents and those living here. The constitution doesn't say one word about citizenship in regard to the census.

All you care about is the fact that your party is losing members at a very high rate now and see your chances of winning an election becoming harder and harder. So instead of changing your party, instead of having policies that appeal to people, you want to cheat to force your policies on a nation that doesn't want them. Which will further harm and divide our nation.

Backlash is a real bummer and it's headed your way.

You people will whine, cry and throw temper tantrums but you have only yourselves to blame.

These Europeans come here for 2-3 months and rent beach houses and get mail at these houses. Just because you are here for extended amounts of time doesnt make you a permanent resident.

I have no idea what you are talking about, Trump will walk away with this election and Im a registered Democrat.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

I dont get it. Why would you want non citizens to fill out our census. I live in a tourist area with numerous Europeans visiting, why would we want tourist, visitors, or criminal occupiers filling out our census?

Tourists and visitors to our nation don't fill out the census.

It's sent to an address. The person who lives at that address fills out the form.

Visitors and tourists don't live here so they don't fill out the form.

You know this yet you posted that ridiculous post and made a fool of yourself to every intelligent person reading this thread.

The census isn't to count all citizens of this nation. It's to count all residents and those living here. The constitution doesn't say one word about citizenship in regard to the census.

All you care about is the fact that your party is losing members at a very high rate now and see your chances of winning an election becoming harder and harder. So instead of changing your party, instead of having policies that appeal to people, you want to cheat to force your policies on a nation that doesn't want them. Which will further harm and divide our nation.

Backlash is a real bummer and it's headed your way.

You people will whine, cry and throw temper tantrums but you have only yourselves to blame.

These Europeans come here for 2-3 months and rent beach houses and get mail at these houses. Just because you are here for extended amounts of time doesnt make you a permanent resident.

I have no idea what you are talking about, Trump will walk away with this election and Im a registered Democrat.

Correct

It's outright craziness to say visitors should be counted in the census since the census is used to a lot each state it's fair share of help

Just plain crookedness and Crazyness that is about to stop quickly by the wise

Incorrect counting of people harms in many ways

A single person traveling around could be counted in many different counties and states and nations which then destroys the correct allotment

Just plain BS and craziness by the left

 

[johnwk]

Republicans fucked themselves on this by using any excuse to justify the question and acting as if the idea of a deliberate under-count of the census never occurred to them. No one likes to be bullshitted to their face.

Nobody said anything never occurred to them.

The point you ignore is that it's a legitimate question.

Why is it a legitimate question?

In 2015 when Obama asked in the American Community Survey, “Is this person a citizen of the United States?”, one of the reasons he gave for asking the question is, it is “used to decide where new schools, hospitals, and fire stations are needed.” So, according to Obama, it’s important to ask “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” for the above stated reasons.

JWK


The Democrat Leadership is correct! The border crisis has been manufactured. It has been manufactured by the Democrat Leadership in Congress refusing to protect our borders against an ongoing invasion.

 

[johnwk]

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

So, it was constitutional for Obama to ask the question but now it's not constitutional? Seems to me the Second Section of the 14th Amendment requires a distinction to be made between citizens and non-citizens.

JWK


The Democrat Party Leadership has been angry, stupid and obnoxious ever since the Republican Party Leadership freed democrat owned slaves. ___ Author unknown

 

[GreenAndBlue]

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

So, it was constitutional for Obama to ask the question but now it's not constitutional? Seems to me the Second Section of the 14th Amendment requires a distinction to be made between citizens and non-citizens.

JWK


The Democrat Party Leadership has been angry, stupid and obnoxious ever since the Republican Party Leadership freed democrat owned slaves. ___ Author unknown

Hate on hypocrisy is pre wired into all humans to bring anger and energy to stop the crookedness

Democrats have made that fatal error to be totally hypocritical !! Really foolish losers !!

 

[Care4all]

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

So, it was constitutional for Obama to ask the question but now it's not constitutional? Seems to me the Second Section of the 14th Amendment requires a distinction to be made between citizens and non-citizens.

JWK


The Democrat Party Leadership has been angry, stupid and obnoxious ever since the Republican Party Leadership freed democrat owned slaves. ___ Author unknown

So why doesn't president Trump get the information he wants from the ACS???

You do not comprehend the 14th amendment, at all!!!!

 

[GreenAndBlue]

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

So, it was constitutional for Obama to ask the question but now it's not constitutional? Seems to me the Second Section of the 14th Amendment requires a distinction to be made between citizens and non-citizens.

JWK


The Democrat Party Leadership has been angry, stupid and obnoxious ever since the Republican Party Leadership freed democrat owned slaves. ___ Author unknown

So why doesn't president Trump get the information he wants from the ACS???

A correct census helps in many ways and an incorrect census harms in many ways and does not take much logic to understand this

The GDP scores will be faulty with incorrect counts

Health research and studies with patterns and the learning would be incorrect

Should be a world law that only citizens should be counted once and travelers could be counted many times

Justice Roberts has a severe problem of not wanting a nation and world to have prosperity