Just Go Away Teacher Unions!...

[WorldWatcher]

It really does come down to that Entitlement mentality in the end. Teachers have become like Generational Welfare Recipients. Teachers don't have it nearly as bad as they claim. Just look at all the nice benefits they receive. When is the last time you saw a Welfare Recipient or Teacher say thank you to the Taxpayers? Personally i've never seen that. All i see Teachers & Welfare Recipients doing is whining & complaining and demanding more. I do blame the Democrats for this mentality. People just don't have as much sympathy for Teachers anymore. And Teachers only have themselves to blame for that. They need to stop all the Entitlement stuff and just say thank you to Taxpayers once and awhile. If they keep it up they will be on a road to ruin for sure.

If teachers really have it so good, then why are half of the teachers in the country quiting in less than 5 years with most of them leaving the teaching profession? The only thing that keeps the system going is a lot new starry-eyed teachers that think they are going to make a difference. After a few years of low pay, long hours, indifferent parents, crowed classrooms, and an a non-supportive administration there're gone.

Half of Teachers Quit in 5 Years - washingtonpost.com

Yep. And what people don't understand is that tenure is not a "job for life". Firing a bad teacher is difficult. Forcing them to quit is quite easy. It happens ALL the time.

Yep, and when an employee (teacher or not) quits and is not fired, then they normally will not qualify for unemployment compensation.


>>>>

 

[Wicked Jester]

Demonizing teachers and cutting their pay is clearly the way to go if you want to improve our nation's school systems.

I can just sense the line of more quality applicants filling up fast for such a gig.

Soooooooo, who's cutting their pay?

I haven't seen their pay cut whatsoever......In fact, they can still CB for pay.

The only teachers who should be demonized are the ones who are lousy. Who abandoned their students in the classroom, thereby shitting all over their students RIGHTS to an education. Thereby causing many parents who are already struggling financially to take time off work at a loss of pay to ensure that their children, who were supposed to be in the classroom exercizing their RIGHT to an eduacation, are safe and taken care of, because those dirtbag teachers shit all over their RIGHTS to an education by abandoning them in the classroom.

And of course, those dirtbag teachers who FRAUDULENTLY submitted FRAUDULENT doctors notes that were FRAUDULENTLY given out by FRAUDULENT doctors in a blatant attempt to DEFRAUD the districts and taxpayers, should be fired forthwit.....And all entities involved in the FRAUDULENT actions should be brought up on FRAUD charges.......Those teachers were only teaching their students, by their own actions, that it's ok to cheat and commit FRAUD.......It's time to right that bullshit, and teach those students that cheating and commiting crimes has serious consequences.

Anybody who believes otherwise, is a fuckin' idiot!

 

[Samson]

Kudos to new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker!

More brave Politicians need to start standing up to the corrupt Teacher Unions. The Teacher Unions have brought our Public School System to its knees. It has become all about them. It's all about getting that cash for them. They don't care about the kids anymore. They also only want to force their politics and social experimenting on the kids at this point. Their number one goal these last few decades has been to brainwash the children and create good little future adult Democrats. They stopped teaching the kids the basics of Education a long time ago.

Teacher Unions now only do far more harm than they do good. It's time for them to go away. The Public School System will be so much better off when they're gone. The Kids could actually start learning again. American kids continue to fall further & further behind other far less developed and less wealthy nations. I do blame the Teacher Unions for this. They have become too obsessed with the cash and creating good little future adult Democrats. They have lost their way. Get rid of the Teacher Unions and our Public School System might just be salvaged.

The best school system in the world, Finland, is 100% unionized.

I suppose your point is that you should move to Finland.

 

[Article 15]

Demonizing teachers and cutting their pay is clearly the way to go if you want to improve our nation's school systems.

I can just sense the line of more quality applicants filling up fast for such a gig.

Soooooooo, who's cutting their pay?

The State of Wisconsin.

Idiot.

I haven't seen their pay cut whatsoever......

That's because you are an uniformed jackass.

 

[Samson]

Demonizing teachers and cutting their pay is clearly the way to go if you want to improve our nation's school systems.

I can just sense the line of more quality applicants filling up fast for such a gig.

Who is "Demonizing Teachers?"

Thread's about Teacher UNIONS, or more generally, the Unionization of Public Employees, which is indeed quite corrupting.

As far as "quality applicants filling up fast for such a gig," I might remind you that unions have abolutely no interest in "quality applicants." Wisconsin, for example, where Teacher Unions have held sway, has one of the lowest starting salaries for teachers in the nation.

 

[Samson]

Demonizing teachers and cutting their pay is clearly the way to go if you want to improve our nation's school systems.

I can just sense the line of more quality applicants filling up fast for such a gig.

Soooooooo, who's cutting their pay?

I haven't seen their pay cut whatsoever......In fact, they can still CB for pay....

idiot!

I was under the impression that their pay had not been touched, but they would be required to pay more into their pension fund (teachers don't get Social Security, and don't pay into it; instead they pay into their own state-run fund), and more into their healthcare funding.

The effect will be that their take-home (net pay) will be less, which could be construed as a "Pay cut."

 

[Samson]

If teachers really have it so good, then why are half of the teachers in the country quiting in less than 5 years with most of them leaving the teaching profession? The only thing that keeps the system going is a lot new starry-eyed teachers that think they are going to make a difference. After a few years of low pay, long hours, indifferent parents, crowed classrooms, and an a non-supportive administration there're gone.

Half of Teachers Quit in 5 Years - washingtonpost.com

Yep. And what people don't understand is that tenure is not a "job for life". Firing a bad teacher is difficult. Forcing them to quit is quite easy. It happens ALL the time.

Yep, and when an employee (teacher or not) quits and is not fired, then they normally will not qualify for unemployment compensation.


>>>>

So?

While many quit, it isn't just because they might not like their working conditions, but it may have a lot to do with a better paying job, or for many (females), staying at home with their kids, and for many (males) the need to support a family.

The fact is, that once teachers have been teaching 5 years, most have pretty much peaked-out, and won't be teaching much differently in year 10 than year 6.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I was under the impression that their pay had not been touched, but they would be required to pay more into their pension fund (teachers don't get Social Security, and don't pay into it; instead they pay into their own state-run fund), and more into their healthcare funding.

You statement about teachers not paying into Social Security isn't factual for all cases. It varies by State.

I'm not sure about Wisconsin, but in Virginia there are contributions to BOTH Social Security and the Virginia Retirement System for teachers here. On the other hand since CALSTRS (California Teachers Retirement System) was established prior to Social Security, they do NOT pay into Social Security.


>>>>

 

[Samson]

I was under the impression that their pay had not been touched, but they would be required to pay more into their pension fund (teachers don't get Social Security, and don't pay into it; instead they pay into their own state-run fund), and more into their healthcare funding.

You statement about teachers not paying into Social Security isn't factual for all cases. It varies by State.

I'm not sure about Wisconsin, but in Virginia there are contributions to BOTH Social Security and the Virginia Retirement System for teachers here. On the other hand since CALSTRS (California Teachers Retirement System) was established prior to Social Security, they do NOT pay into Social Security.


>>>>

Your probably right, however my point is that we shouldn't assume that teachers' net pay is a result of maximum Federal SS PLUS State retirement fund contributions.

I would be willing to bet that in VA the total retirement contribution is not more than the maximum Federal SS.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Demonizing teachers and cutting their pay is clearly the way to go if you want to improve our nation's school systems.

I can just sense the line of more quality applicants filling up fast for such a gig.

Soooooooo, who's cutting their pay?

I haven't seen their pay cut whatsoever......In fact, they can still CB for pay....

idiot!

I was under the impression that their pay had not been touched, but they would be required to pay more into their pension fund (teachers don't get Social Security, and don't pay into it; instead they pay into their own state-run fund), and more into their healthcare funding.

The effect will be that their take-home (net pay) will be less, which could be construed as a "Pay cut."

No, they are investing in themselves so, they didnt' receive a pay cut.

The ''pay cut" angle is propoganda put out by unions and their cronies to give the illusion that they are going to suffer horribly........No, they're not.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I was under the impression that their pay had not been touched, but they would be required to pay more into their pension fund (teachers don't get Social Security, and don't pay into it; instead they pay into their own state-run fund), and more into their healthcare funding.

You statement about teachers not paying into Social Security isn't factual for all cases. It varies by State.

I'm not sure about Wisconsin, but in Virginia there are contributions to BOTH Social Security and the Virginia Retirement System for teachers here. On the other hand since CALSTRS (California Teachers Retirement System) was established prior to Social Security, they do NOT pay into Social Security.


>>>>

Your probably right, however my point is that we shouldn't assume that teachers' net pay is a result of maximum Federal SS PLUS State retirement fund contributions.

I would be willing to bet that in VA the total retirement contribution is not more than the maximum Federal SS.

Last year the Social Secuirty Tax rate was 6.2%, this year there was temporary "Tax Relief" reducing it to 4.2% for one year and then it will return to 6.2%

This year the combined Virginia Retirement System employer + employee contribution is about 8.5% and next year that will go up 11.5%


Maximum SS contribution limits kick in at (IIRC) $106,000 of earned income. I can't speak for every school system in Virginia, but in my district about $60,000 tops out the pay scale.




>>>>

 

[Samson]

You statement about teachers not paying into Social Security isn't factual for all cases. It varies by State.

I'm not sure about Wisconsin, but in Virginia there are contributions to BOTH Social Security and the Virginia Retirement System for teachers here. On the other hand since CALSTRS (California Teachers Retirement System) was established prior to Social Security, they do NOT pay into Social Security.


>>>>

Your probably right, however my point is that we shouldn't assume that teachers' net pay is a result of maximum Federal SS PLUS State retirement fund contributions.

I would be willing to bet that in VA the total retirement contribution is not more than the maximum Federal SS.

Last year the Social Secuirty Tax rate was 6.2%, this year there was temporary "Tax Relief" reducing it to 4.2% for one year and then it will return to 6.2%

This year the combined Virginia Retirement System employer + employee contribution is about 8.5% and next year that will go up 11.5%



>>>>

"Virginia Retirement System employer ....contribution"...there's an EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION??? I'm quite shocked.

Virginia is an exceptional state: I also understand the Budget is Balanced.

In Texas and Colorado, Teachers do not pay Federal Social Security, but instead pay into a state retirement fund, and there is no employer contribution. Like SS, there is no choice but to contribute to the state retirement fund.

 

[Mr. H.]

Just found out that a 3rd grade teacher was hired at the school where wife used to work.
The job was never posted.
It was given to a friend of the Principal who attends the same church.
Screw the bastards.
It's a scam.

 

[chanel]

That sounds illegal Mr H. You should report it.

 

[Moonglow]

The Teacher Unions are the root cause of most of the problems in our Public School System. Too much greed & politics coming from them at this point. They have lost their way. They have neglected the kids for too many years. It's all about them now. Just get more cash and get more Democrats elected. That's all the Teacher Unions are good for these days. They do nothing for the kids anymore. If the Public Schools dropped them,i guarantee things would immediately improve. The kids don't need all this political activism and greed. That stuff never had a place in our Schools. It's actually pretty depressing observing what the Teacher Unions have done to our Public Schools. It really is time for them to just go away.

not all public teachers have unions organized.

 

[Moonglow]

Just found out that a 3rd grade teacher was hired at the school where wife used to work.
The job was never posted.
It was given to a friend of the Principal who attends the same church.
Screw the bastards.
It's a scam.

Happens every day in private industry, etc..

 

[Mr. H.]

It's not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last. We moved to another county after she was denied tenure, and the same thing is going on over here. Nepotism and favoritism.
She sent in a letter of resignation, since they were hoping she would return as an aid (para-professional LOL). Minimum wage yes, but very rewarding work regardless of physical and emotional demands. So she's out of a job, we're out of insurance, and we've both had it with the "educational system'. It's a system all right- well oiled and fraught with fraud. I simply hate the beuracracy, heirarchy, and the fruitless senseless unionization of teachers. It's a goddamn mob operation is what it is.

 

[Mr. H.]

Just found out that a 3rd grade teacher was hired at the school where wife used to work.
The job was never posted.
It was given to a friend of the Principal who attends the same church.
Screw the bastards.
It's a scam.

Happens every day in private industry, etc..

Is it as prevalent in private schools?
I've not read through the 500+ posts in this thread. Just blowing off. Pissed as hell.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Public Unions are contributing very heavily to the death of our Nation. There shouldn't be any Unions allowed in Government. Period,end of story.

 

[Foxfyre]

Public Unions are contributing very heavily to the death of our Nation. There shouldn't be any Unions allowed in Government. Period,end of story.

I don't philosophically have a problem with public unions that are for the purpose of working with personnel/human resources to agree on wage scales, health plans, terms of contracts etc. We really do want to attract competent and qualified people into public service as much as possible so working conditions need to be adequate. It is far easier to have spokesperson do the negotiating for large blocks of people rather than have each person negotiate his/her own terms.

But. . . . .

1. Under no circumstances should federal unions have the contractual right to strike or organize work outages or anything like that and any effort to do that should result in immediate termination of all employees involved.

2. No public sector employee paid by the tax payer should be paid higher wages than the prevailing wage of the area for the type of work and scope of responsibilities.

3. The government can set up retirement financial vehicles (401k plans, IRAs) that federal employees can participate in out of their salaries but under no circumstances should any federal employee who leaves government service for any reason be able to draw more than what they paid into their account. (Ditto for appointed bureaucrats and all elected officials.)

4. The government can set up a group health plan and similar benefits for those who need that, but the employees should pay the cost of these from their salaries. That gives the employees strong incentive to not demand more in benefits than what they want to afford and does not obligate the government/tax payer to continue paying the benefits to the employee for life. (Ditto for appointed bureaucrats and all elected officials.)

Union contracts were no problem until they found a way to make benefits lifetime benefits. Each new manager or government bureaucrat or elected official didn't care because they would be long gone before the accumulative effects of all that hit the fan.

Well it has hit the fan. It is a terrible mess to untangle and will be painful, but if we want our country solvent again, it has to be done.