Just As Much A Failure As His Eponymous Plan

[Sun Devil 92]

 

[Sun Devil 92]

We are headed to 20 Trillion in debt.

How do we keep going ?

Look at this talk.....

First implication....tax your way out of debt.

Second...this was a while ago......that "running room" is quickly gone. At the end he says we have 5 to 6 Trillion left to play with. That was about 7 trillion dollars ago.

 

[JoeB131]

7. "The path to repeal and reform has been laid out by Speaker Paul Ryan and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. Both plans include returning flexibility [that means 'liberty,' and 'freedom'] to insurance companies [and to American consumers] over what plans are offered while insuring that once people are in the insurance system, they cannot be dropped.

How come every time one of you Wingnuts talks about "Liberty" and "Freedom", it usually means letting the wealthy fuck over working people with impunity?

("Mommy. Mommy. Joe said a bad word again!!!! Waaaaaah!!!")

HEY STUPID, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY IS THE PROBLEM!!!!

"Are you saying we don't spend 17% of our GDP on healthcare ?"

I'm saying that America had the best healthcare in the world prior to Obama.

A recent "Investor's Business Daily" article provided very
interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations
International Health Organization.

Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years
after diagnosis:

why do you take an out of context statistic and say it proves a point. Clearly we have the LOWEST LIFE EXPECTENCY amongst advanced nations. The fact that poor can't access the health care system - even if it does have good technology - has a lot to do with that.

8. Rather than hire the same academic consultants [Gruber] who designed the non-insurance program called Obamacare [and explained how stupid Liberals are], the next administration would be well advised to listen to the real expert on medical insurance: the American consumer.

That consumer is very happy with a wide range of well-functioning insurance markets such as automobile insurance, home-owners insurance, and life insurance. So too are the insurance companies that provide the insurance, all without a dime of federal subsidy [as per the United States Constitution!].

Okay. let's look at that.

As stated, 46 Million Americans had NO Health insurance before ObamaCare.
Another 100 million get health insurance through the government because the private insurance industry doesn't want them as customers- Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, COBRA.

Of the 150 Million who are left, 100 million get their health insurance through their employers. They don't have much of a choice there, it's whatever plan the employer gets, and trust me, I've had to sit through too many meetings where the HR Cow told us that next year, our insurance would cost us more and cover less.

One Memorable Year, the HR Cow (yes, I really didn't like this woman!) bragged to the lot of us how happy she was that she was on her Husband's HMO and not our awful plan.

We stopped having those meetings after the ACA Passed. They stopped looking at Health Coverage as a way to fuck with us.

Another 30 Million of us get insurance through Unions. Union plans, BTW, are often the best ones, because the Unions want to keep their membership happy.

Another 20 million of us actually get what you want- the wonderful world of letting consumers deal with a big insurance company directly. And usually, that's where you find big insurance is really good at screwing over older workers.

10. We conservatives told you all of this seven long years ago.

Liberals/Democrats must be astounded as how we conservatives are never.......never......wrong!

Except you've been predicting things that never happened. You predicted unemployment would go way up because of the ACA, and it went down. (This is the part where you'll talk about the Labor Participation Rate like that's a real thing.)

Let's recap hilariously wrong Republican predictions about Obamacare

 

[Sun Devil 92]

7. "The path to repeal and reform has been laid out by Speaker Paul Ryan and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. Both plans include returning flexibility [that means 'liberty,' and 'freedom'] to insurance companies [and to American consumers] over what plans are offered while insuring that once people are in the insurance system, they cannot be dropped.

How come every time one of you Wingnuts talks about "Liberty" and "Freedom", it usually means letting the wealthy fuck over working people with impunity?

("Mommy. Mommy. Joe said a bad word again!!!! Waaaaaah!!!")

HEY STUPID, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY IS THE PROBLEM!!!!

I would agree with you 100% the insurance industry is the problem. The bigger problem (of which they are a part) is that the federal government props them up. That is both left and right wing cronies doing the propping.

Liberty and Freedom should be as much a part of the working people as the rich.

It is the federal government that protects the rich.

 

[JoeB131]

I would agree with you 100% the insurance industry is the problem. The bigger problem (of which they are a part) is that the federal government props them up. That is both left and right wing cronies doing the propping.

Liberty and Freedom should be as much a part of the working people as the rich.

It is the federal government that protects the rich.

Oh, I agree, the Federal Government protects the Rich when the Republicans are in charge.

But let's look at this.

Republicans are the ones who oppose a Canadian Single Payer system. That would have solved ALL the problems.

They used to support a universal coverage system of combined private and public plans, like ObamaCare. In fact, when they called it "RomneyCare", they were all for it. Romney tauted his plan as a model for the nation, and no one disagreed with him.

Then the BLACK GUY did it. And suddenly republicans HATE, HATE, HATE their own plan. But big insurance got behind it because they knew if there was a public option anyone could sign up for, businesses and individuals would abandon them in droves.

 

[PoliticalChic]

7. "The path to repeal and reform has been laid out by Speaker Paul Ryan and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. Both plans include returning flexibility [that means 'liberty,' and 'freedom'] to insurance companies [and to American consumers] over what plans are offered while insuring that once people are in the insurance system, they cannot be dropped.

How come every time one of you Wingnuts talks about "Liberty" and "Freedom", it usually means letting the wealthy fuck over working people with impunity?

("Mommy. Mommy. Joe said a bad word again!!!! Waaaaaah!!!")

HEY STUPID, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY IS THE PROBLEM!!!!

I would agree with you 100% the insurance industry is the problem. The bigger problem (of which they are a part) is that the federal government props them up. That is both left and right wing cronies doing the propping.

Liberty and Freedom should be as much a part of the working people as the rich.

It is the federal government that protects the rich.

Bulletin: there is no such perennial group "the rich" in this nation.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I would agree with you 100% the insurance industry is the problem. The bigger problem (of which they are a part) is that the federal government props them up. That is both left and right wing cronies doing the propping.

Liberty and Freedom should be as much a part of the working people as the rich.

It is the federal government that protects the rich.

Oh, I agree, the Federal Government protects the Rich when the Republicans are in charge.

But let's look at this.

Republicans are the ones who oppose a Canadian Single Payer system. That would have solved ALL the problems.

They used to support a universal coverage system of combined private and public plans, like ObamaCare. In fact, when they called it "RomneyCare", they were all for it. Romney tauted his plan as a model for the nation, and no one disagreed with him.

Then the BLACK GUY did it. And suddenly republicans HATE, HATE, HATE their own plan. But big insurance got behind it because they knew if there was a public option anyone could sign up for, businesses and individuals would abandon them in droves.

Bulletin: there is no such perennial group "the rich" in this nation.


But....there are perennial whining losers.
Raise your paw.

 

[JoeB131]

Bulletin: there is no such perennial group "the rich" in this nation.


But....there are perennial whining losers.
Raise your paw.

I'm not sure why you think the qualification of "perrenial' changes the issue here.

basic common sense. If I pay for health insurance, and my doctor says that a certain treatment is needed to improve my health situation, Cigna - a rich corporation- should not be able to use various means to prevent paying for it.

Or we can just get rid of Cigna and go with a government plan that covers everyone. That works in the rest of the civilized world just fine.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Bulletin: there is no such perennial group "the rich" in this nation.


But....there are perennial whining losers.
Raise your paw.

I'm not sure why you think the qualification of "perrenial' changes the issue here.

basic common sense. If I pay for health insurance, and my doctor says that a certain treatment is needed to improve my health situation, Cigna - a rich corporation- should not be able to use various means to prevent paying for it.

Or we can just get rid of Cigna and go with a government plan that covers everyone. That works in the rest of the civilized world just fine.

"I'm not sure why you think the qualification of "perrenial' (sic) changes the issue here."


Your spelling is as accurate as your politics are.


As for the concept....Obamacare is an abject failure...as are you.

 

[JoeB131]

"I'm not sure why you think the qualification of "perrenial' (sic) changes the issue here."


Your spelling is as accurate as your politics are.


As for the concept....Obamacare is an abject failure...as are you.

duly noted you couldn't answer my question.

Why should I support a system where I pay a shitload of money to an insurance company that will then try to rip me off?

Can you come up with ONE rational reason why I should continue to support that?

Just one.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"I'm not sure why you think the qualification of "perrenial' (sic) changes the issue here."


Your spelling is as accurate as your politics are.


As for the concept....Obamacare is an abject failure...as are you.

duly noted you couldn't answer my question.

Why should I support a system where I pay a shitload of money to an insurance company that will then try to rip me off?

Can you come up with ONE rational reason why I should continue to support that?

Just one.

Nobody rips you off.
The explanation for your posts is simply this: you're a hand-wringing, whining lying loser.

This is what most believe:

• Quinnipiac University, Sept. 2009. "How satisfied are you with your health insurance plan?" 54 percent very satisfied, 34 percent somewhat.Total: 88 percent satisfaction.

• Quinnipiac University, June 2009. "How satisfied are you with your health insurance plan?" 49 percent very satisfied, 36 somewhat satisfied.Total: 85 percent satisfaction.

• ABC News/Washington Post, June 2009. "For each specific item I name, please tell me whether you are very satisfied with it, somewhat satisfied, somewhat dissatisfied or very dissatisfied. ... Your health insurance coverage." 42 percent very satisfied, 39 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 81 percent satisfaction.

• Mathew Greenwald & Associates for the Employee Benefit Research Institute, May 2009. "Overall, how satisfied are you with your current health insurance plan?" 21 percent extremely satisfied, 37 percent very satisfied, 30 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 88 percent satisfaction.

• ABC News/Washington Post, June 2009. "For each specific item I name, please tell me whether you are very satisfied with it, somewhat satisfied, somewhat dissatisfied or very dissatisfied. ... Your health insurance coverage." 42 percent very satisfied, 39 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 81 percent satisfaction.

• Mathew Greenwald & Associates for the Employee Benefit Research Institute, Aug. 2008. "Please rate your satisfaction with each of the following aspects of your health care. ... Quality of health care I receive through my (health insurance) plan." 31 percent extremely satisfied, 41 percent very satisfied, 23 somewhat satisfied. Total: 95 percent satisfaction.

• Mathew Greenwald & Associates for the Employee Benefit Research Institute, Aug. 2008. "Please rate your satisfaction with each of the following aspects of your health care. ... Overall satisfaction with my health (insurance) care plan." 23 percent extremely satisfied, 38 percent very satisfied, 30 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 91 percent satisfaction.

• Mathew Greenwald & Associates for the Employee Benefit Research Institute, May 2008. "Overall, how satisfied are you with your current health insurance plan?" 17 percent extremely satisfied, 36 percent very satisfied, 33 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 86 percent satisfaction.

If you average these eight scores, the total rate of satisfaction is 87 percent. In all but one poll, the satisfaction level was below Will's stated level of 95 percent.

One poll, taken five months before Obama was inaugurated, did come up with 95 percent satisfaction. But alone among these eight polls, that survey asked participants about the "quality of health care I receive through my (health insurance) plan." While we decided that the wording was close enough to merit inclusion on our list, the modest difference in satisfaction levels may stem from the way the question was phrased. Many people feel more warmly toward their doctors than they do toward their insurers.

So, while one poll with unique wording pegged satisfaction at 95 percent, the average of all relevant polls over a two-year period was eight points lower than what Will cited. However, Will is correct that the levels of satisfaction with one's own health insurance are consistently high. Indeed, they're extraordinarily high, when one considers how rarely surveys find such high levels of agreement among Americans. Since Will portrayed the larger point accurately, even while modestly overstating the number, we rate his comment Mostly True.

None

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody rips you off.
The explanation for your posts is simply this: you're a hand-wringing, whining lying loser.

This is what most believe:

The Q-Poll is shit.

Okay, going to ask you the question again- Why should I support a system where I pay money to an insurance company, and then they try to find reasons to NOT pay for my treatment that my doctor says I need?

Can you come up with one good reason other than some poll shows that ##% haven't had a really bad medical crisis yet?

Come on, I kn ow you can do it. I know you can actually answer a direct question.

 

[koshergrl]

Let's remind all that Obamacare is the illegitimate child of Soviet Communist practice:

1. Government control of private sector activity...is aptly described as Bolshevik- or Marxist, socialist, collectivist, statist, or, for that matter, fascist, too. Indeed, nationalized health care was one of the first programs enacted by the Bolsheviks after they seized power in 1917 (Banks, insurance companies and means of communications were also taken over by Soviet authorities immediately.)
Dziewanowski, "A History of Soviet Russia," p. 107.



2. Obama wasn't the first Bolshevik to support socialized medicine. For context, there was Henry Sigerist: "He devoted himself to the study of history of medicine. Socialized Medicine in the Soviet Union (1937), and History of Medicine were among his most important works. He emerged as a major spokesman for "compulsory health insurance". ...He attacked the American Medical Association because of his conflicting views on socialized medicine." Henry E. Sigerist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a. And, Sigerist was one of the apologists for Stalin, including his state-engineered famine in the Ukraine. 7 million perished (The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33).

b. Sigerist "shared with the architects of Soviet health policy under Stalin an outlook best described as medical totalitarianism. He really believed that humanity would be better off if every individual were under the medical supervision of the state from cradle to grave....[and] Sigerist's belief in the necessity for state control over all aspects of medicine ultimately made him an apologist for state control over most aspects of human life." Fee and Brown, eds. "Making Medical History: The Life and Times of Henry E. Sigerist," p. 252





And we are witnessing the very same failure in Obama and Obamacare as we did in Soviet Russia.

And for the same reasons: lack of liberty and freedom.

And...in ErroneousJoe's case...a lack of intelligence.

National health care was also dangled.before the Austrians to convince them to come under the authority of.Nazi Germany...Hitler never had to fire.a.shot.

 

[JoeB131]

National health care was also dangled.before the Austrians to convince them to come under the authority of.Nazi Germany...Hitler never had to fire.a.shot.

Because Most Austrians considered themselves to be Germans. They looked at what the Nazis were doing and thought it was going to be pretty awesome. And lots of Austrians like Kurt Waldheim and Arnold's Dad served in the Wehrmacht.

It wasn't about "Free Health Care", dummy.

Imagine this scene.

"Koshie, eat your vegetables!"

"Do you know who else was a vegetarian! HITLER!!!! I want Ice Cream!"

 

[koshergrl]

Lies.

That, and vulgarity, is all you have, huh?

1. “…when one digs deep enough, one finds that only 8 million folks can be classified as "chronically uninsured;" that's still a problem, of course, but a much more manageable one, and puts the lie to the canard that our system is irretrievably broken.

Uh, sorry, but being temporarily uninsured is STILL a real problem if you need attention that day.

2. The U.S. Census Bureau shows that of the 47 million people identified as "uninsured," 14 million are already eligible for government programs such as Medicaid and SCHIP (for children) and simply need to sign up. Another 10 million have household incomes over $75,000. That leaves 23.7 million people who need help affording insurance, not 47 million.

Okay- and part of Obamacare was to get people to actually sign up... so I'm not seeing what you are complaining about.

But let's talk about the inadequately insured. The 25 million who had insurance that was shit. That was also a real problem

So was the Insurance companies taking money from people who had good plans like i had, and then fighting tooth and nail about actually paying the medical bills.

Again- we spend 17% of our GDP on health care and have the worst system in the industrialized world.

Mostly because tools like you think Greed is a virtue.

"....part of Obamacare was to get people to actually sign up... so I'm not seeing what you are complaining about."

"Fewer than 13 million people signed up for Obamacare in the 2016 enrollment period, compared with the 22 million predicted by the Congressional Budget Office in May 2013."
An Insurance Giant Has Rung Obamacare's Death Knell | Diana Furchtgott-Roth


Maybe you Nazis can force 'em to sign up at bayonet point, huh?

The Real Father of Universal Healthcare – Adolf Hitler

 

[JoeB131]

Koshie... Universal Health Care in Germany started under BISMARCK

Healthcare in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Germany has the world's oldest national social health insurance system,[1] with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck'ssocial legislation, which included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of 1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889. Bismarck stressed the importance of three key principles; solidarity, the government is responsible to ensure access by those who are in need, subsidiarity, policies are implemented with smallest no political and administrative influence, and corporatism, the government representative bodies in health care professions deems feasible procedures.[9] Mandatory health insurance originally applied only to low-income workers and certain government employees, but has gradually expanded to cover the great majority of the population.[10] The system is decentralized with private practice physicians providing ambulatory care, and independent, mostly non-profit hospitals providing the majority of inpatient care. Approximately 92% of the population is covered by a 'Statutory Health Insurance' plan, which provides a standardized level of coverage through any one of approximately 1,100 public or private sickness funds.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I would agree with you 100% the insurance industry is the problem. The bigger problem (of which they are a part) is that the federal government props them up. That is both left and right wing cronies doing the propping.

Liberty and Freedom should be as much a part of the working people as the rich.

It is the federal government that protects the rich.

Oh, I agree, the Federal Government protects the Rich when the Republicans are in charge.

But let's look at this.

Republicans are the ones who oppose a Canadian Single Payer system. That would have solved ALL the problems.

They used to support a universal coverage system of combined private and public plans, like ObamaCare. In fact, when they called it "RomneyCare", they were all for it. Romney tauted his plan as a model for the nation, and no one disagreed with him.

Then the BLACK GUY did it. And suddenly republicans HATE, HATE, HATE their own plan. But big insurance got behind it because they knew if there was a public option anyone could sign up for, businesses and individuals would abandon them in droves.

Please tell me what problems it will solve.

We spend 8,500 per person per year.

That is the bottom line.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Bulletin: there is no such perennial group "the rich" in this nation.


But....there are perennial whining losers.
Raise your paw.

I'm not sure why you think the qualification of "perrenial' changes the issue here.

basic common sense. If I pay for health insurance, and my doctor says that a certain treatment is needed to improve my health situation, Cigna - a rich corporation- should not be able to use various means to prevent paying for it.

Or we can just get rid of Cigna and go with a government plan that covers everyone. That works in the rest of the civilized world just fine.

Please define "just fine".

Not everyone shares your opinion.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Lies.

That, and vulgarity, is all you have, huh?

1. “…when one digs deep enough, one finds that only 8 million folks can be classified as "chronically uninsured;" that's still a problem, of course, but a much more manageable one, and puts the lie to the canard that our system is irretrievably broken.

Uh, sorry, but being temporarily uninsured is STILL a real problem if you need attention that day.

2. The U.S. Census Bureau shows that of the 47 million people identified as "uninsured," 14 million are already eligible for government programs such as Medicaid and SCHIP (for children) and simply need to sign up. Another 10 million have household incomes over $75,000. That leaves 23.7 million people who need help affording insurance, not 47 million.

Okay- and part of Obamacare was to get people to actually sign up... so I'm not seeing what you are complaining about.

But let's talk about the inadequately insured. The 25 million who had insurance that was shit. That was also a real problem

So was the Insurance companies taking money from people who had good plans like i had, and then fighting tooth and nail about actually paying the medical bills.

Again- we spend 17% of our GDP on health care and have the worst system in the industrialized world.

Mostly because tools like you think Greed is a virtue.

I struggle with this in that I have never had this issue.

I have always had good insurance and it has always paid just like it said it would. No questions asked.

Not saying that it does not happen.....just saying not all the time.

 

[JoeB131]

Please tell me what problems it will solve.

We spend 8,500 per person per year.

That is the bottom line.

Yes. Yes we do. But how much of that actually goes to actual care? How much of it is paying investors, 9 figure CEO salaries, and for big fancy marble hospitals?

I struggle with this in that I have never had this issue.

I have always had good insurance and it has always paid just like it said it would. No questions asked.

Not saying that it does not happen.....just saying not all the time.

well, wait until you get a condition that actually costs some money to treat, then get back to me. Oh, wait, you probably won't have to worry about that because the ACA made a lot of that shit illegal.