Just As Much A Failure As His Eponymous Plan

[Conservative65]

Oooo......look who I dragged out of the basement, his pajamas still Doritos covered....
...it's the poor, whining loser, ErroneousJoe!

Cut to the chase: you still claiming Obamacare's a good idea???

Speak up, you dunce.

i think it was better than what we were doing...

It would have been better if we had a Medicaid buy in for those over 55 (who the private insurance companies don't want) and a Public Option... both of which Republicans and Joe Leiberjew (D-Israel) didn't want.

But let's get down to brass tacks without your OCD Number pointed arguments.

The US spends more than any country in the world on Health Care.

Pre-ObamaCare, 25% of Americans either had no insurance or inadequate insurance.

We have the lowest life expectency in the Industrialize world, the highest infant mortality rate among developed countries, and most shocking of all, 62% of personal bankruptcies are caused by medical crisis of a family member.

Meanwhile, the fat CEO's of Cigna and Aetna that you defend are pulling down 8 and 9 figure salaries for screwing over consumers...

This by you makes sense?

Or are you so conditioned to defend the One Percent that you excuse anything they do?

Pre Obamacare, what we were doing was working fine for ME. I don't give a fuck how it affected you.

 

[Conservative65]

Please tell me what problems it will solve.

We spend 8,500 per person per year.

That is the bottom line.

Yes. Yes we do. But how much of that actually goes to actual care? How much of it is paying investors, 9 figure CEO salaries, and for big fancy marble hospitals?

I struggle with this in that I have never had this issue.

I have always had good insurance and it has always paid just like it said it would. No questions asked.

Not saying that it does not happen.....just saying not all the time.

well, wait until you get a condition that actually costs some money to treat, then get back to me. Oh, wait, you probably won't have to worry about that because the ACA made a lot of that shit illegal.

I have had a "condition" that actually costs some money to treat. Not one problem with the way my insurance company provided funding.

Why would I support going from a system that works for ME to one that could potentially costs me more?

 

[JoeB131]

Pre Obamacare, what we were doing was working fine for ME. I don't give a fuck how it affected you.

Of course you don't. Then you wake up one morning and wonder why all the people you don't care about up and voted to change things...

Oh, wait, Cleetus, that totally happened. The good news for you is that when you get that cancer, that insurance company that was "working perfectly fine" for you won't be able to screw you on a "Pre-existing condition" excuse.

 

[JoeB131]

I have had a "condition" that actually costs some money to treat. Not one problem with the way my insurance company provided funding.

Why would I support going from a system that works for ME to one that could potentially costs me more?

I'm glad your insurance pays for your anti-psychotic drugs, but you probably need to talk to your doctor about upping the dosage.

 

[Conservative65]

Pre Obamacare, what we were doing was working fine for ME. I don't give a fuck how it affected you.

Of course you don't. Then you wake up one morning and wonder why all the people you don't care about up and voted to change things...

Oh, wait, Cleetus, that totally happened. The good news for you is that when you get that cancer, that insurance company that was "working perfectly fine" for you won't be able to screw you on a "Pre-existing condition" excuse.

I could care less about you. The freeloaders getting a subsidy to have coverage now don't give a damn about someone else having been taxed to fund it.

Funny how me looking out for me is wrong because you disagree with what I support but all those looking out for themselves by supporting what you support are perfectly OK doing so. Typical Liberal hypocrite mindset.

Typical doom and gloom mindset. My insurance has proven they'll do what is expected of them. You speculate in order to scare people. Sorry, you failed but anyone that demands the government do for him what he won't do for himself is a born failure.

 

[Conservative65]

I have had a "condition" that actually costs some money to treat. Not one problem with the way my insurance company provided funding.

Why would I support going from a system that works for ME to one that could potentially costs me more?

I'm glad your insurance pays for your anti-psychotic drugs, but you probably need to talk to your doctor about upping the dosage.

Perhaps you could get your doctor to prescribe you an anti-coward drug but I suspect a dose big enough to solve that problem could be fatal.

 

[JoeB131]

Perhaps you could get your doctor to prescribe you an anti-coward drug but I suspect a dose big enough to solve that problem could be fatal.

again, I have a box of medals from the Army that says otherwise... but never mind.

If you need to hide behind a gun to feel like a man... you probably aren't.

 

[JoeB131]

I could care less about you. The freeloaders getting a subsidy to have coverage now don't give a damn about someone else having been taxed to fund it.

But the problem is, guy, unless you are paying it all out of pocket, someone else IS subsidizing your health care if you get sick. Insurance programs are just as "socialistic" as government programs. Some people pay in, others take more out.

Funny how me looking out for me is wrong because you disagree with what I support but all those looking out for themselves by supporting what you support are perfectly OK doing so. Typical Liberal hypocrite mindset.

Except that we are all looking out for you. You aren't living in a hut out in the middle of hte woods. You live in a civilized society the rest of us subsidize. The only question is, should we continue with a corporatist system that costs too much and delivers too little?

If we actually went to a system where there were no tax credits for employers to provide insurance, and every last one of us had to go out and negotiate with insurance companies based on our age and health history, there's no way you could get the sweet deal you are getting now on your insurance. You get a good deal because you are in a pool with healthier people.

Typical doom and gloom mindset. My insurance has proven they'll do what is expected of them. You speculate in order to scare people. Sorry, you failed but anyone that demands the government do for him what he won't do for himself is a born failure.

Guy, again, for the last six years,the reason why your insurance does what is expected of them is because the ACA makes them. If you really had an expensive condition, your insurance company or employer would have probably gotten rid of you by now.

 

[Conservative65]

Perhaps you could get your doctor to prescribe you an anti-coward drug but I suspect a dose big enough to solve that problem could be fatal.

again, I have a box of medals from the Army that says otherwise... but never mind.

If you need to hide behind a gun to feel like a man... you probably aren't.

Prove it.

If you think that I need a gun to be a man, maybe that's why you don't have the guts to try and personally take mine, coward.

 

[JoeB131]

Prove it.

If you think that I need a gun to be a man, maybe that's why you don't have the guts to try and personally take mine, coward.

Guy, only a matter of time before the government figures out what a dangerous lunatic you are and takes your gun...

Then I'll just be here laughing when they do it.

 

[Conservative65]

I could care less about you. The freeloaders getting a subsidy to have coverage now don't give a damn about someone else having been taxed to fund it.

But the problem is, guy, unless you are paying it all out of pocket, someone else IS subsidizing your health care if you get sick. Insurance programs are just as "socialistic" as government programs. Some people pay in, others take more out.

Funny how me looking out for me is wrong because you disagree with what I support but all those looking out for themselves by supporting what you support are perfectly OK doing so. Typical Liberal hypocrite mindset.

Except that we are all looking out for you. You aren't living in a hut out in the middle of hte woods. You live in a civilized society the rest of us subsidize. The only question is, should we continue with a corporatist system that costs too much and delivers too little?

If we actually went to a system where there were no tax credits for employers to provide insurance, and every last one of us had to go out and negotiate with insurance companies based on our age and health history, there's no way you could get the sweet deal you are getting now on your insurance. You get a good deal because you are in a pool with healthier people.

Typical doom and gloom mindset. My insurance has proven they'll do what is expected of them. You speculate in order to scare people. Sorry, you failed but anyone that demands the government do for him what he won't do for himself is a born failure.

Guy, again, for the last six years,the reason why your insurance does what is expected of them is because the ACA makes them. If you really had an expensive condition, your insurance company or employer would have probably gotten rid of you by now.

You miss a big difference between someone in a group policy and Obamacare. I, nor anyone else, was required to join that insurance group. Obamacare is a mandate. If you can't understand that, you're an idiot.

Typical big government looking out for pussies like you that don't want to make the effort yourself.

My insurance did for me the same now that it did BEFORE Obamacare.

Probably gotten rid of me by now? Again, typical doom and gloom. Doesn't work with honest and intelligent people. Only fools like you buy into that crap.

 

[Conservative65]

Prove it.

If you think that I need a gun to be a man, maybe that's why you don't have the guts to try and personally take mine, coward.

Guy, only a matter of time before the government figures out what a dangerous lunatic you are and takes your gun...

Then I'll just be here laughing when they do it.

At least you admit you're not man enough to do it. Guess all those claimed medals didn't change that you're still a pussy. If all those medals mean anything, and you've proven they don't, you'd be a man and do personally what you say should be done. What are you afraid of?

 

[JoeB131]

You miss a big difference between someone in a group policy and Obamacare. I, nor anyone else, was required to join that insurance group. Obamacare is a mandate. If you can't understand that, you're an idiot.

Why do you think your insurance is so expensive? Because the hospitals are taking the costs of the indigent who show up at emergency rooms and passing them along to the schlubs who have insurance. It's why when I had my operation, and they gave me some liquid Tylenol, they charged my insurance $100.00.

Typical big government looking out for pussies like you that don't want to make the effort yourself.

My insurance did for me the same now that it did BEFORE Obamacare.

Except I did make the effort myself. I went to my job every day for six years, and paid my matching co-pay to the insurance that my company offered and even paid a little more to get the POS program instead of the HMO program.

And when my doctor said, "you need this operation", Cigna fought me tooth and nail every step of the way. And when they finally gave in and admitted they had to pay, the next big effort was to get me off the payroll of that company.

so your argument is that I should make an effort, but don't you dare actually vote for a guy who is going to rig the game in my favor instead of voting for people who will rig the system in Cigna's favor? Really? This makes sense to you?

My insurance did for me the same now that it did BEFORE Obamacare.

Probably gotten rid of me by now? Again, typical doom and gloom. Doesn't work with honest and intelligent people. Only fools like you buy into that crap.

Guy, if you act at work the way you act here, I'm sure HR already has a file on you.

 

[Conservative65]

You miss a big difference between someone in a group policy and Obamacare. I, nor anyone else, was required to join that insurance group. Obamacare is a mandate. If you can't understand that, you're an idiot.

Why do you think your insurance is so expensive? Because the hospitals are taking the costs of the indigent who show up at emergency rooms and passing them along to the schlubs who have insurance. It's why when I had my operation, and they gave me some liquid Tylenol, they charged my insurance $100.00.

Typical big government looking out for pussies like you that don't want to make the effort yourself.

My insurance did for me the same now that it did BEFORE Obamacare.

Except I did make the effort myself. I went to my job every day for six years, and paid my matching co-pay to the insurance that my company offered and even paid a little more to get the POS program instead of the HMO program.

And when my doctor said, "you need this operation", Cigna fought me tooth and nail every step of the way. And when they finally gave in and admitted they had to pay, the next big effort was to get me off the payroll of that company.

so your argument is that I should make an effort, but don't you dare actually vote for a guy who is going to rig the game in my favor instead of voting for people who will rig the system in Cigna's favor? Really? This makes sense to you?

My insurance did for me the same now that it did BEFORE Obamacare.

Probably gotten rid of me by now? Again, typical doom and gloom. Doesn't work with honest and intelligent people. Only fools like you buy into that crap.

Guy, if you act at work the way you act here, I'm sure HR already has a file on you.

My insurance ins't expensive. In fact, my total out of pocket for the "condition" I had which involved two days in the hospital costs me out of pocket $750.

I have a solution to those without coverage. Those that think they deserve it, pay for it with your own money. That way, both of us get what we want. All those you say deserve something get it because people like you paid and those that don't think it's owed to them don't have to pay.

I'm sure HR already has a file on you? Again, making claims you can't prove much like the medals. In both cases, it's because no such file or no such medals exist.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I would agree with you 100% the insurance industry is the problem. The bigger problem (of which they are a part) is that the federal government props them up. That is both left and right wing cronies doing the propping.

Liberty and Freedom should be as much a part of the working people as the rich.

It is the federal government that protects the rich.

Oh, I agree, the Federal Government protects the Rich when the Republicans are in charge.

But let's look at this.

Republicans are the ones who oppose a Canadian Single Payer system. That would have solved ALL the problems.

They used to support a universal coverage system of combined private and public plans, like ObamaCare. In fact, when they called it "RomneyCare", they were all for it. Romney tauted his plan as a model for the nation, and no one disagreed with him.

Then the BLACK GUY did it. And suddenly republicans HATE, HATE, HATE their own plan. But big insurance got behind it because they knew if there was a public option anyone could sign up for, businesses and individuals would abandon them in droves.

Please tell me what problems it will solve.

We spend 8,500 per person per year.

That is the bottom line.

Business supplying healthcare was due to government imposing wage and price restrictions.

Perhaps we can get government out of the picture.


Free-Market Innovations:

· a) Walgreens has retail health clinics staffed by board-certified Family Nurse Practitioners and Physicians Assistants, and expects to have 400 open by 2010, and CVS plans on about 500. Anyone can walk in and get treatment for about 1/6 the cost of an emergency room, plus about 2/3 are paid for by insurance. Treatment includes: Respiratory Illnesses

· Additional Treatments

· Skin Conditions

· Minor Injuries

· Diagnostic Testing

· Wellness

· Vaccinations

· Healthcare Clinics | Walgreens

b) Wal-Mart offers some 400 different prescription drugs @ $10 for a 90 day supply. CVS, Target, Kroegers, Food Lion, and a number of others have similar plans.

c) eHealthinsurance.com allows you to find health insurance in your zip.

d) Healthcarebluebook.com tells the costs of various procedures and treatments, allowing the consumer to negotiate prices with practitioners.

e) Teledoc gets you on the phone with a licensed physician in 3 hours or less, for $35- or it’s free!

f) American Well will let you talk to a doctor by webcam, text, phone, or IM for $45. And some Wal-Marts have virtual clinics where they can actually look into eyes, ears, and throat by webcam. http://www.americanwell.com/healthplan_FAQs.html

g) For an annual fee of just $480 for singles ($580 for couples and $680 for families) The No Insurance Club offers affordable pre-paid health care plans that cover basic medical services from a participating board-certified physician, with no deductibles, no additional premiums, and no co-payments and either 12 or 16 visits per year. HugeDomains.com - NoInsuranceClub.com is for sale (No Insurance Club)



And...

h) Cosmetic surgery is the closest thing we have to a true free-market system in American. No insurance coverage, and the consumer shops around among practitioners: the price has been falling over time in real terms — despite a huge increase in volume and considerable technical innovation (which is blamed for increasing costs for every other type of surgery).



This is not to imply that only the rich in America can get the ‘expensive’ treatment, since there are many options such as a)getting a loan, b) asking a family member or a charity for help, c) find a doctor, hospital, or drug company willing to work at a reduced rate. All are common.

And because we have rich people who pay a great deal for the best healthcare, enabling research and development, the end result is that this brings costs down and makes treatment affordable for everyone, even in socialist countries.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Bulletin: there is no such perennial group "the rich" in this nation.


But....there are perennial whining losers.
Raise your paw.

I'm not sure why you think the qualification of "perrenial' changes the issue here.

basic common sense. If I pay for health insurance, and my doctor says that a certain treatment is needed to improve my health situation, Cigna - a rich corporation- should not be able to use various means to prevent paying for it.

Or we can just get rid of Cigna and go with a government plan that covers everyone. That works in the rest of the civilized world just fine.

Please define "just fine".

Not everyone shares your opinion.

Very little that government does falls into the "just fine" category.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Perhaps you could get your doctor to prescribe you an anti-coward drug but I suspect a dose big enough to solve that problem could be fatal.

again, I have a box of medals from the Army that says otherwise... but never mind.

If you need to hide behind a gun to feel like a man... you probably aren't.

Whose army would that be?

 

[Conservative65]

Perhaps you could get your doctor to prescribe you an anti-coward drug but I suspect a dose big enough to solve that problem could be fatal.

again, I have a box of medals from the Army that says otherwise... but never mind.

If you need to hide behind a gun to feel like a man... you probably aren't.

Whose army would that be?

Yet he's provided no proof.

I heard Joe held a high rank in the Army. General Admission

 

[PoliticalChic]

Perhaps you could get your doctor to prescribe you an anti-coward drug but I suspect a dose big enough to solve that problem could be fatal.

again, I have a box of medals from the Army that says otherwise... but never mind.

If you need to hide behind a gun to feel like a man... you probably aren't.

Whose army would that be?

Yet he's provided no proof.

I heard Joe held a high rank in the Army. General Admission

But...he sings well:

 

[Conservative65]

Perhaps you could get your doctor to prescribe you an anti-coward drug but I suspect a dose big enough to solve that problem could be fatal.

again, I have a box of medals from the Army that says otherwise... but never mind.

If you need to hide behind a gun to feel like a man... you probably aren't.

Whose army would that be?

Yet he's provided no proof.

I heard Joe held a high rank in the Army. General Admission

But...he sings well:

The only thing I've seen him do well is whine like a little bitch.