Just As Much A Failure As His Eponymous Plan

[Arianrhod]

Never said I don't have insurance. Said I don't pay for the premiums. It's called compensation, moron.

Okay, compensation for what? For work that you do. Which means that your boss (if you have one, which again, I doubt) figures that the profit he makes on the possums you catch is enough where he can afford to add you to a group plan that is subsidized by the government.

You see, this is where you are kind of stupid that you actually think this is a good deal. Because, legally, the contract isn't between you and the insurance company. so this is a legally plausible Conversation. (or it was before ObamaCare)

Conservative1965: "Hey, my Doctor told me I have Ass-Cancer, it will cost $110,000 to treat!"

Big Insurance: "Um, nope, we scoured your medical records and found a hemorrhoid you had in 1995 makes that a pre-existing condition!"

Conservative1965: "Hey, I have an insurance policy."

Big Insurance: Nope, your boss has an insurance policy. Our contract is with him, actually.

Boss: Yeah, and I never liked that guy anyway. Time to get a new one!

Never faced that.

I brought my pregnant wife onto an insurance policy fully expecting to pay for the whole thing.....

They covered it !!!! Those nasty greedy creeps.

Joe uses that type of doom and gloom example regularly. Sounds to me as if he had personal experience with something like that. Sad part is, like you, my policy has been paid and when I needed something, they paid for it like the policy stated. In fact, one of the things for which they paid had a price tag almost to that $110,000.

It's how the Liberals works. The part that gets me is if Joe cares as much about people as he CLAIMS, wouldn't he pay for things like that for people when it happened?

Someday I'm going to count the number of times you tell other people to pay for those who can't afford to. It's almost as if you assume that everyone on this board makes more money than you do. Very revealing.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Never said I don't have insurance. Said I don't pay for the premiums. It's called compensation, moron.

Okay, compensation for what? For work that you do. Which means that your boss (if you have one, which again, I doubt) figures that the profit he makes on the possums you catch is enough where he can afford to add you to a group plan that is subsidized by the government.

You see, this is where you are kind of stupid that you actually think this is a good deal. Because, legally, the contract isn't between you and the insurance company. so this is a legally plausible Conversation. (or it was before ObamaCare)

Conservative1965: "Hey, my Doctor told me I have Ass-Cancer, it will cost $110,000 to treat!"

Big Insurance: "Um, nope, we scoured your medical records and found a hemorrhoid you had in 1995 makes that a pre-existing condition!"

Conservative1965: "Hey, I have an insurance policy."

Big Insurance: Nope, your boss has an insurance policy. Our contract is with him, actually.

Boss: Yeah, and I never liked that guy anyway. Time to get a new one!

Never faced that.

I brought my pregnant wife onto an insurance policy fully expecting to pay for the whole thing.....

They covered it !!!! Those nasty greedy creeps.

Joe uses that type of doom and gloom example regularly. Sounds to me as if he had personal experience with something like that. Sad part is, like you, my policy has been paid and when I needed something, they paid for it like the policy stated. In fact, one of the things for which they paid had a price tag almost to that $110,000.

It's how the Liberals works. The part that gets me is if Joe cares as much about people as he CLAIMS, wouldn't he pay for things like that for people when it happened?

Yes, even my greedy car insurance called me up once for a review. When it was over, I dropped uneccesary coverages....added some coverages and dropped my premiums 20%. I'll be the underwriters were pissed at my agent for taking the time to call me because she realized I had "outgrown" some of my present coverages.

I told her to call me often.

 

[Arianrhod]

Once upon a time, I decided to change carriers. The one I was with kept raising its premiums every six months or so. I checked eSurance or something similar, filled out the form (they were bragging about how they could get the lowest premiums around).

The last two pages were about medications. “Are you taking any prescription medications at this time?” I ticked “No,” because it was true. Click through, penultimate page. “Are you taking any OTC* medications?”

*over-the-counter

I ticked “Yes” and was asked to list them. I mentioned Aleve for occasional muscle aches, and Pepto for occasional stomachache.

Click through to the final page.

“Because you told us you take Aleve for occasional muscle aches, and Pepto-Bismol for occasional stomachache, your premium has just gone up by $100 a month.

I told Aetna (yes, it was Aetna) where they could stick their higher premium and found another carrier.

Only emotional crybabies who’ve had someone else cover their health insurance all their “adult” lives have no experience with this. They give themselves away every time the discussion comes up.

 

[JoeB131]

The bitterness and jealousy is dripping.

Blame Bush.....it was all his fault. He's not that smart.

No, it was all Bush's fault because he was handed a wonderful economy by Clinton and he pretty much did everything he could to fuck it up? What, we are balancing the budget? Let's give a tax cut to rich people. And then start a war and borrow Trillions to pay for it! Then deregulate the banks so they can do shitloads of risky things.

Do you thank Bush for your second job ?

No, I blame him for the fact I have to work one. I was doing just fine with one job before that retarded cocksucker crashed the economy.

 

[JoeB131]

Never faced that.

I brought my pregnant wife onto an insurance policy fully expecting to pay for the whole thing.....

They covered it !!!! Those nasty greedy creeps.

Childbirth costs only about 3,000 to cover. I would hope so.

If a kid was born with something like childhood leukemia, watch how fast they try to dump you.

But you keep bending over for the 1%.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Someday I'm going to count the number of times you tell other people to pay for those who can't afford to. It's almost as if you assume that everyone on this board makes more money than you do. Very revealing.

Conservatard makes good money as the Town Possum Catcher.

And Possum tastes just like Chicken.

 

[Conservative65]

Never said I don't have insurance. Said I don't pay for the premiums. It's called compensation, moron.

Okay, compensation for what? For work that you do. Which means that your boss (if you have one, which again, I doubt) figures that the profit he makes on the possums you catch is enough where he can afford to add you to a group plan that is subsidized by the government.

You see, this is where you are kind of stupid that you actually think this is a good deal. Because, legally, the contract isn't between you and the insurance company. so this is a legally plausible Conversation. (or it was before ObamaCare)

Conservative1965: "Hey, my Doctor told me I have Ass-Cancer, it will cost $110,000 to treat!"

Big Insurance: "Um, nope, we scoured your medical records and found a hemorrhoid you had in 1995 makes that a pre-existing condition!"

Conservative1965: "Hey, I have an insurance policy."

Big Insurance: Nope, your boss has an insurance policy. Our contract is with him, actually.

Boss: Yeah, and I never liked that guy anyway. Time to get a new one!

Never faced that.

I brought my pregnant wife onto an insurance policy fully expecting to pay for the whole thing.....

They covered it !!!! Those nasty greedy creeps.

Joe uses that type of doom and gloom example regularly. Sounds to me as if he had personal experience with something like that. Sad part is, like you, my policy has been paid and when I needed something, they paid for it like the policy stated. In fact, one of the things for which they paid had a price tag almost to that $110,000.

It's how the Liberals works. The part that gets me is if Joe cares as much about people as he CLAIMS, wouldn't he pay for things like that for people when it happened?

Someday I'm going to count the number of times you tell other people to pay for those who can't afford to. It's almost as if you assume that everyone on this board makes more money than you do. Very revealing.

Not even close. What it reveals, especially when they say things to the effect of "I can't do it ally myself" or "I would IF I could" reveals that they're just another bleeding heart that can't do what they say should be done so they justify someone else being forced to do it. They think compassion comes from supporting the government forcing someone that has more than they think the person should have funding it. In other words, the mandated charity crowd.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We don't "need". All speculation.

By all means...start your own system.

Only, I'd like to avoid destroying the perfectly good system we had before in the process.

We didn't have a perfectly good system. We had a fucked up system that cost too much and provided shitty coverage for most of us.

A lie...as I've proven several time.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yes, I've posted those graphs too.

As to your outcomes....you show you are liar. They've been repeatedly normalized to show that the U.S. is fine compared to others.

Guy, the fact is, we have the highest infant mortality and the lowest life expectency in the industrialized world. And the fact that one out of four of us had inadequate access to health care is a big part of that.

Yeah, I guess we look good if we take out- Poor people.

Fact remains: 17% is still a lot higher than other countries and way to much. 8,500 per person per year.

I agree. It is. Because of greedy doctors, greedy pharamacuetical companies, greedy insurance companies, and greedy health care companies... Things you don't have in a single payer system.

BTW: You gave nobody anything. Insurance has been propped up by government for decades and they've use that support to really shove it to us. It's been democrats as well as the GOP that have been party to this crap.

I agree. Big insurance has too much influence. We should go to single payer and get rid of them. Instead, we keep propping up a horrible, unethical system and Ed Hanaway deploys his Nine Figure Golden Parachute while Nataline Sarkisyan dies from a failing liver.

The problem is, only one of us thinks that is truly immoral and fucked up.

"Guy, the fact is, we have the highest infant mortality and the lowest life expectency in the industrialized world."

Gee....a double dose of fabrication in one sentence.


Your 'medical' problems see to be from the neck up.

1. life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!

“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.

In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.

And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://www.davepetno.com/blog/index.php?itemid=30


2. Infant mortality. So, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate? On January 2, 2009 they announced 4.7 out of every 1,000 for 2008. Seem believable? Well, maybe the number, but calculated in 48 hours? It takes the US about two years to get all the data for our. One reason that Cuba has a low infant mortality, and the corresponding high life expectancy, is because they induce abortion at the first sign of possible trouble with a fetus. “Cuba's annual induced abortion rate persistently ranks among the highest in the world, and abortion plays a prominent role in Cuban fertility regulation.”
The Persistence of Induced Abortion in Cuba: Exploring the Notion of an “Abortion Culture” - Bélanger - 2009 - Studies in Family Planning - Wiley Online Library

a. And, of course, there are a variety of ways that infant mortality statistics are measured. While 40% of America’s infant mortality rate is due to reporting of infants who die on the day of their birth, many countries don’t register such deaths at all. Other countries require specific size (Switzerland, 30 cm) and weights (Austria and Germany, 500 gms) to be listed as having been born.
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/060924/2healy.htm

b. Rarely reported in comparing infant mortality rates it the negative effect of “very pre-term” babies, whose death rate is far higher than full term. When comparing the US infant mortality rate to such category-stars as in this NYTimes report of 11/4/09:

“If the United States could match Sweden’s prematurity rate, the new report said, “nearly 8,000 infant deaths would be averted each year, and the U.S. infant mortality rate would be one-third lower.”


We find the usual anti-US slant of the Times, in not mentioning that race is the reason:


“The use of this example highlights to disingenuousness of the authors. In their supposedly “detailed” report on infant mortality, they fail to analyze the most important detail: race. Unfortunately, African descent is a major risk factor for prematurity, and prematurity is a major cause of infant mortality. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that the US has a higher infant mortality rate than Sweden. The US has the highest proportion of women of African descent of any first world country. Sweden, of course, has virtually none. So our higher rate of infant mortality does not reflect poor medical care. It reflects factors beyond the control of doctors. Race is an uncontrollable factor; obstetricians and pediatricians have no control over assisted reproductive techniques. In fact, the data actually show obstetricians and pediatricians do a remarkable job of ensuring infant health.”
Salon: in-depth news, politics, business, technology & culture


d. One factor contributing to the U.S.'s infant mortality rate is that blacks have intractably high infant mortality rates -- irrespective of age, education, socioeconomic status and so on. No one knows why.

Neither medical care nor discrimination can explain it: Hispanics in the U.S. have lower infant mortality rates than either blacks or whites. Give Switzerland or Japan our ethnically diverse population and see how they stack up on infant mortality rates.
A Statistical Analysis of Maritime Unemployment Rates, 1946-1948. Just Kidding, More Liberal Lies About National Healthcare! | Human Events



QED....you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We won't be going to single payer. Sorry.

Actually, it's inevitable.

Gads, you're a dunce.


"Health-care exchange sign-ups fall far short of forecasts"
Enrollment in the insurance exchanges for President Obama’s signature health-care law is at less than half the initial forecast, pushing several major insurance companies to stop offering health plans in certain markets because of significant financial losses."
Health-care exchange sign-ups fall far short of forecasts

Dated yesterday.

 

[JoeB131]

1. life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!

There aren't enough murders to really tip the balance on the Life expectency numbers, and other industrialized countries have about as many auto fatalities as we do.

And I don't even want to get into your deception about Cuba . I don't think an argument that we barely beat Cuba in infant mortality after waging economic war on a poor third world country for half a century is something to brag about.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The bitterness and jealousy is dripping.

Blame Bush.....it was all his fault. He's not that smart.

No, it was all Bush's fault because he was handed a wonderful economy by Clinton and he pretty much did everything he could to fuck it up? What, we are balancing the budget? Let's give a tax cut to rich people. And then start a war and borrow Trillions to pay for it! Then deregulate the banks so they can do shitloads of risky things.

Do you thank Bush for your second job ?

No, I blame him for the fact I have to work one. I was doing just fine with one job before that retarded cocksucker crashed the economy.

He (Bush) could not have done any of that without the help of an incredibly stupid GOP congress. I noticed that the democrats did little to stop him (didn't even try.....or in Teddy's case helped write a stupid drug coverage bill).

The same way Clinton could not have balanced the budget without the help of a better GOP congress.

Bush tanked the economy on his own. The two years of Pelosi And Reid are just eyewash.....

Got it.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Never faced that.

I brought my pregnant wife onto an insurance policy fully expecting to pay for the whole thing.....

They covered it !!!! Those nasty greedy creeps.

Childbirth costs only about 3,000 to cover. I would hope so.

If a kid was born with something like childhood leukemia, watch how fast they try to dump you.

But you keep bending over for the 1%.

Actually it was a C-section and cost over 10,000 and that was a while ago. Fail on your part.

Next, my daughter did spend some extra time in the hospital.

Fundamentally, I get the argument against insurance companies and agree with parts of it.

But this characterization of them as nothing but greedy non-caring leviathans does not fit my experience.

But you keep making stuff up.

As to the 1%, I've already explained my position. It's the governments (including Obama) fault they exist and continue to flourish. You can't get used to that idea since in your Fairy Tale they are going to give you health care freebies.

Keep dreaming.

Doctors shouldn't make 300 K.....according to Joe the left wing nazi. He knows better.

When you go to get your sickness treated, you can apply to the lowest bidders. Sounds like it has served you well.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

We won't be going to single payer. Sorry.

Actually, it's inevitable.

Gads, you're a dunce.


"Health-care exchange sign-ups fall far short of forecasts"
Enrollment in the insurance exchanges for President Obama’s signature health-care law is at less than half the initial forecast, pushing several major insurance companies to stop offering health plans in certain markets because of significant financial losses."
Health-care exchange sign-ups fall far short of forecasts

Dated yesterday.

Yes, and it was more sick than "they thought" would sign up. What were those idiots expecting ?

 

[JoeB131]

He (Bush) could not have done any of that without the help of an incredibly stupid GOP congress. I noticed that the democrats did little to stop him (didn't even try.....or in Teddy's case helped write a stupid drug coverage bill).

Meh, Medicare Part D really didn't contribute to the economic meltdown.

What caused the Economic Meltdown was conservatives finally got everything they ever wanted, and it was a shit sandwich for working people.

Actually it was a C-section and cost over 10,000 and that was a while ago. Fail on your part.

Next, my daughter did spend some extra time in the hospital.

I wasn't talking about a few minor complications. I was talking about a case with chronic issues, where your beloved insurance industry HAS pushed families off when they cost too much.

But you keep defending big insurance. Battered housewife conservatism, everyone.

Fundamentally, I get the argument against insurance companies and agree with parts of it.

But this characterization of them as nothing but greedy non-caring leviathans does not fit my experience.

It does fit mine, and frankly, I could flood this thread with fine examples.

Health Care Horror Story: Crippling Medical Bills Force Health Professional Into Foreclosure

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=0

Death of Nataline Sarkisyan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again, my health care solution... rounding up Health Insurance CEO's and harvesting them for transplant organs. That would be justice.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Again, my health care solution... rounding up Health Insurance CEO's and harvesting them for transplant organs. That would be justice.

Yep...spoken like a true cossack.

You know what justice is.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

He (Bush) could not have done any of that without the help of an incredibly stupid GOP congress. I noticed that the democrats did little to stop him (didn't even try.....or in Teddy's case helped write a stupid drug coverage bill).

Meh, Medicare Part D really didn't contribute to the economic meltdown.

What caused the Economic Meltdown was conservatives finally got everything they ever wanted, and it was a shit sandwich for working people.

Conservatives got the wars ?

Does that mean everyone who wanted the war was a conservative ?

Are you sure conservatives wanted those stupid wars ?

 

[JoeB131]

Again, my health care solution... rounding up Health Insurance CEO's and harvesting them for transplant organs. That would be justice.

Yep...spoken like a true cossack.

You know what justice is.

Hey, how many people have died because big insurance cheated them on life saving operations? How many people have died because they couldn't get into a hospital at all?

our health care system isn't just messed up, it's a fucking crime.

 

[JoeB131]

Conservatives got the wars ?

Does that mean everyone who wanted the war was a conservative ?

Are you sure conservatives wanted those stupid wars ?

i'm sure that Bush and his Neo-Con buddies lied their asses off about WMD's and Saddam being best buds with Bin Laden to get the war they wanted.

Did the Democrats do enough to stop it? Not really.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Conservatives got the wars ?

Does that mean everyone who wanted the war was a conservative ?

Are you sure conservatives wanted those stupid wars ?

i'm sure that Bush and his Neo-Con buddies lied their asses off about WMD's and Saddam being best buds with Bin Laden to get the war they wanted.

Did the Democrats do enough to stop it? Not really.

Bush wasn't a conservative.

And you can spare me the "now you are running from him" meme.

I disliked that moron from the start.

Find someone who wants to listen to your fairy tales.

You don't blow money like he did and call yourself anything but a big spender.