July 4th, 1776 and the Fear of Freedom

[Kondor3]

We jail more of our citizenry than communist China

True.

For their murderers, rapists, child molesters, convicted corruption felons, etc., they just take theirs outside, make 'em kneel at the side of a ditch, put a bullet through their brain, and send the bill for the coffin, the burial labor, the jail-time, and the bullet, to the family.

Silly us.

 

[Peach]

There is no stretching required to notice how a legal ruling in London of 1772 suggesting slavery would no longer obtain in England caused many American colonists from South Carolina to New York to despair for the fortunes. Fortunes that depend upon chattel slavery should never be forgotten regardless of their level of national greatness.

But as I have posted, the feelings of the Founders were not uniform, even most of the slave owners despised slavery, but saw no other way...."for now". You can at least tip your hat to John Adams, and John Quincy Adams, against slavery and VOCAL about it, same with Franklin. Adams letters to Jefferson rarely omitted a rebuke because Jefferson owned slaves.

I'm sure the Founders saw no way out that wouldn't crash the economy of their day.
It is worth noting other countries outlawed slavery without resulting to Civil War.
King Cotton cast a long shadow between Valley Forge and Cold Harbor:

"In the 1830s, hundreds of millions of acres of conquered land were surveyed and put up for sale by the United States. This vast privatization of the public domain touched off one of the greatest economic booms in the history of the world up to that time.

"Investment capital from Britain, the Continent and the Northern states poured into the land market. 'Under this stimulating process, prices rose like smoke,' the journalist Joseph Baldwin wrote in his memoir, 'The Flush Times of Alabama and Mississippi.'

"Without slavery, however, the survey maps of the General Land Office would have remained a sort of science-fiction plan for a society that could never happen.

"Between 1820 and 1860 more than a million enslaved people were transported from the upper to the lower South, the vast majority by the venture-capitalist slave traders the slaves called 'soul drivers.'

"The first wave cleared the region for cultivation. 'Forests were literally dragged out by the roots,' the former slave John Parker remembered in 'His Promised Land.'

"Those who followed planted the fields in cotton, which they then protected, picked, packed and shipped — from “sunup to sundown” every day for the rest of their lives..."

"When the cotton crop came in short and sales failed to meet advanced payments, planters found themselves indebted to merchants and bankers.

"Slaves were sold to make up the difference.

"The mobility and salability of slaves meant they functioned as the primary form of collateral in the credit-and-cotton economy of the 19th century.

"It is not simply that the labor of enslaved people underwrote 19th-century capitalism.

"Enslaved people were the capital: four million people worth at least $3 billion in 1860, which was more than all the capital invested in railroads and factories in the United States combined.

"Seen in this light, the conventional distinction between slavery and capitalism fades into meaninglessness."

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/king-cottons-long-shadow/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

"Without slavery, however, the survey maps of the General Land Office would have remained a sort of science-fiction plan for a society that could never happen.

"Between 1820 and 1860 more than a million enslaved people were transported from the upper to the lower South, the vast majority by the venture-capitalist slave traders the slaves called 'soul drivers.'

"The first wave cleared the region for cultivation. 'Forests were literally dragged out by the roots,' the former slave John Parker remembered in 'His Promised Land.'

Yes, W.E.B. DuBois wrote on this also. At length, great length, the man never stopped writing, or it seemed studying him.

 

[Ibentoken]

You can't free the slaves until you establish a free society. Blaming the founders for not getting rid of slavery would be like blaming Truman for not getting rid of the Soviet Union after WWII.

 

[georgephillip]

You can't free the slaves until you establish a free society. Blaming the founders for not getting rid of slavery would be like blaming Truman for not getting rid of the Soviet Union after WWII.

Any free society isn't free if it relies on chattel slavery to provide its workforce or collateral for its bond markets. Why would Truman destroy the Soviets after they whipped Hitler?

 

[kaz]

Actually, Teapers LOVE diversity. If it weren't for diversity, who else could they blame all of the ills of this great nation on?

As for Libertarians, I will never understand why you are so sympathetic to the Teapers. They have molested your belief system and use you to spew their hate.

Dude...you are dumb as rat shit. Does it HURT to be so stupid?

Must be a Teaper. They are a sensitive bunch. But when they spew their hate nonsense...they like to say they are only using words. Hypocrites, the whole lot of them.

You don't even get it, do you? You're just demonstrating Jarlaxle's point?

 

[georgephillip]

But as I have posted, the feelings of the Founders were not uniform, even most of the slave owners despised slavery, but saw no other way...."for now". You can at least tip your hat to John Adams, and John Quincy Adams, against slavery and VOCAL about it, same with Franklin. Adams letters to Jefferson rarely omitted a rebuke because Jefferson owned slaves.

I'm sure the Founders saw no way out that wouldn't crash the economy of their day.
It is worth noting other countries outlawed slavery without resulting to Civil War.
King Cotton cast a long shadow between Valley Forge and Cold Harbor:

"In the 1830s, hundreds of millions of acres of conquered land were surveyed and put up for sale by the United States. This vast privatization of the public domain touched off one of the greatest economic booms in the history of the world up to that time.

"Investment capital from Britain, the Continent and the Northern states poured into the land market. 'Under this stimulating process, prices rose like smoke,' the journalist Joseph Baldwin wrote in his memoir, 'The Flush Times of Alabama and Mississippi.'

"Without slavery, however, the survey maps of the General Land Office would have remained a sort of science-fiction plan for a society that could never happen.

"Between 1820 and 1860 more than a million enslaved people were transported from the upper to the lower South, the vast majority by the venture-capitalist slave traders the slaves called 'soul drivers.'

"The first wave cleared the region for cultivation. 'Forests were literally dragged out by the roots,' the former slave John Parker remembered in 'His Promised Land.'

"Those who followed planted the fields in cotton, which they then protected, picked, packed and shipped — from “sunup to sundown” every day for the rest of their lives..."

"When the cotton crop came in short and sales failed to meet advanced payments, planters found themselves indebted to merchants and bankers.

"Slaves were sold to make up the difference.

"The mobility and salability of slaves meant they functioned as the primary form of collateral in the credit-and-cotton economy of the 19th century.

"It is not simply that the labor of enslaved people underwrote 19th-century capitalism.

"Enslaved people were the capital: four million people worth at least $3 billion in 1860, which was more than all the capital invested in railroads and factories in the United States combined.

"Seen in this light, the conventional distinction between slavery and capitalism fades into meaninglessness."

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/king-cottons-long-shadow/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

"Without slavery, however, the survey maps of the General Land Office would have remained a sort of science-fiction plan for a society that could never happen.

"Between 1820 and 1860 more than a million enslaved people were transported from the upper to the lower South, the vast majority by the venture-capitalist slave traders the slaves called 'soul drivers.'

"The first wave cleared the region for cultivation. 'Forests were literally dragged out by the roots,' the former slave John Parker remembered in 'His Promised Land.'

Yes, W.E.B. DuBois wrote on this also. At length, great length, the man never stopped writing, or it seemed studying him.

I didn't do well during my high school days, and I was responsible for most of my lack of success there; however, had my History classes included figures like DuBois, I think I would have found far more motivation:

"Du Bois was a prolific author.

"His collection of essays, The Souls of Black Folk, was a seminal work in African-American literature; and his 1935 magnum opus Black Reconstruction in America challenged the prevailing orthodoxy that blacks were responsible for the failures of the Reconstruction era.

"He wrote the first scientific treatise in the field of sociology; and he published three autobiographies, each of which contains insightful essays on sociology, politics and history. In his role as editor of the NAACP's journal The Crisis, he published many influential pieces.

"Du Bois believed that capitalism was a primary cause of racism, and he was generally sympathetic to socialist causes throughout his life.

"He was an ardent peace activist and advocated nuclear disarmament.

"The United States' Civil Rights Act, embodying many of the reforms for which Du Bois had campaigned his entire life, was enacted a year after his death."

W. E. B. Du Bois - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe it is not too late?

 

[rightwinger]

Freedoms just another word for nothing else to lose

 

[g5000]

What accounts for the spike in prison population since 1970, too many "Socialists" in government or "Free" Trade Capitalism?

False dichotomy.

The cause is mandatory minimum sentences.

 

[g5000]

More blather from the school of cultural Marxism, the unremitting depravity of the morally and intellectually bankrupt left. . . .

It is fun watching you WNs fight it out with lefties. Tards vs. tards.

 

[georgephillip]

What accounts for the spike in prison population since 1970, too many "Socialists" in government or "Free" Trade Capitalism?

False dichotomy.

The cause is mandatory minimum sentences.

Too many poor people who were radicalized during the 60s and early 70s might have changed capitalism at the polls, causing mandatory minimum sentences.

 

[Erand7899]

If you find yourself wondering why the Land of the Free has more prison inmates in 2014 that any other country on the planet, and that a staggering disproportion of today's inmates are the descendants of slaves, Dr Gerald Horne might help you understand why:

"GERALD HORNE: We should understand that July 4th, 1776, in many ways, represents a counterrevolution.

"That is to say that what helped to prompt July 4th, 1776, was the perception amongst European settlers on the North American mainland that London was moving rapidly towards abolition.

"This perception was prompted by Somerset’s case, a case decided in London in June 1772 which seemed to suggest that abolition, which not only was going to be ratified in London itself, was going to cross the Atlantic and basically sweep through the mainland, thereby jeopardizing numerous fortunes, not only based upon slavery, but the slave trade.

"That’s the short answer."

"Counter-Revolution of 1776": Was U.S. Independence War a Conservative Revolt in Favor of Slavery? | Democracy Now!

The long answer extends to Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and beyond.
America was built on genocide and slavery, and until we shake that PTSD (post tramatic slave syndrome) we're destined to live in Fear.

The sad fact is that you obviously believe that crap. I don't recall seeing anything about slavery in the Declaration of Independence, nor in any of the writings of those who waged the revolution. Consequently, your assertion is nothing more than propaganda, and very poor propaganda at that.

 

[Erand7899]

"There are many blacks in the Teabagger party". Of course there are, because they don't know any better. The Southern Confederate Republican Dixiecrat KKK slave states are still very racist. They call it part of their "cultural heritage", as if starting and losing a war is something to be proud of. "Remember the Alamo"?

So there you have it. You can find Jews who helped Nazis, blacks who sold slaves, humans of all walks of life turning on each other for superficial momentary gain. It's a condition that repeats generation after generation.

The Teabagger party doesn't stand for anything except "We hate Obama". You ******* imbeciles actually try to call Obama a "socialist". Rich people are even richer now with Obama than when Bush was President. Suddenly, with a black President, rich people getting richer is "socialism". It's NEVER been considered "socialism" when the richest of the rich get even richer. Those ultra-rich people are job creators. When they make more money, they can create more jobs which will spur the economy...... right?

Why are rich people richer than ever and unemployment is still high? How much more of the world's wealth do rich people need before they can hire all of these unemployed people everywhere?

If ignorance had value, you would be a rich man, and if irrational anger had value, you would be even richer.

Your obvious hatred of the tea parties is so irrational as to be almost a joke.

Your ignorance of real racism is a joke. And, it isn't a funny joke, since it makes you the butt of the joke.

Obama is both a Marxist and a criminal. The two traits often go together. His administration is a Marxist/criminal conspiracy, and that is why the rich get richer while the nation suffers. We have seen the same results in every Marxist who has risen to power, in every area of the world. Why would you expect to see different results here?

Sane people do not create jobs just because they have money. That is one of the prime reasons they still have money. They create jobs to make more money, and they do this in the time and place that gives them the best chance of making money. Why is that so hard for some of you to comprehend?

If you want good jobs created here, in the United States of America, you must create an economic atmosphere that causes the people who have money, to invest it here, and not somewhere else. Why is that so hard for some of you to comprehend?

Three key factors determine where money gets invested. They are taxes, labor rates, and regulations. Like them, love them, or hate them, they affect economic decisions at all levels.

 

[georgephillip]

If you find yourself wondering why the Land of the Free has more prison inmates in 2014 that any other country on the planet, and that a staggering disproportion of today's inmates are the descendants of slaves, Dr Gerald Horne might help you understand why:

"GERALD HORNE: We should understand that July 4th, 1776, in many ways, represents a counterrevolution.

"That is to say that what helped to prompt July 4th, 1776, was the perception amongst European settlers on the North American mainland that London was moving rapidly towards abolition.

"This perception was prompted by Somerset’s case, a case decided in London in June 1772 which seemed to suggest that abolition, which not only was going to be ratified in London itself, was going to cross the Atlantic and basically sweep through the mainland, thereby jeopardizing numerous fortunes, not only based upon slavery, but the slave trade.

"That’s the short answer."

"Counter-Revolution of 1776": Was U.S. Independence War a Conservative Revolt in Favor of Slavery? | Democracy Now!

The long answer extends to Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and beyond.
America was built on genocide and slavery, and until we shake that PTSD (post tramatic slave syndrome) we're destined to live in Fear.

The sad fact is that you obviously believe that crap. I don't recall seeing anything about slavery in the Declaration of Independence, nor in any of the writings of those who waged the revolution. Consequently, your assertion is nothing more than propaganda, and very poor propaganda at that.

The Declaration of Independence strikes me as propaganda, especially the part about all men being created equal. Horne is saying the US founders were well aware of major slave revolts in the Caribbean colonies. They were also aware of the Somerset v Stewart decision in London in 1772 which held that chattel slavery was unsupported by the common law in England and Wales; however its status elsewhere in the British Empire was left ambiguous.

The Spanish and British had been arming escaped slaves in Florida and using them as proxies against one another and against inhabitants of the original 13 colonies. It didn't require much imagination on the part of colonists to suspect armed Blacks backed by the might of the greatest empire of its day would sweep northward through Georgia and South Carolina, liberating tens of thousands of enslaved Africans along the way.

Such an outcome might have resulted with Washington and Jefferson twisting at the end of a Black hangman's rope.