Josh Duggar And The Message Of Forgiveness

[AVG-JOE]

Everywhere else some of you mock and belittle the Bible, now you pick out the parts that serve a purpose for you and are preaching it.




Repentance is between Josh and God...the honest, final judgement rest with God. Morons with an agenda & public mob mentality is totally incapable of something like that.

Safety of kids is the important issue.

So... do you agree with the morons and the growing public mob that the safety of the kids is the most important issue?

Can I ass-u-me that's a 'yes'?

 

[Statistikhengst]

No. He died for those that had already changed and received forgiveness. You probably need to reread that part.

Those who refuse forgiveness and reject Jesus Christ are rejecting the terms God has laid down for redemption. Therein they remain condemned in their sins and there is no pardon.

Are you aware what the Torah says about forgiveness?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

No. He died for those that had already changed and received forgiveness. You probably need to reread that part.

Those who refuse forgiveness and reject Jesus Christ are rejecting the terms God has laid down for redemption. Therein they remain condemned in their sins and there is no pardon.

Are you aware what the Torah says about forgiveness?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Yes. Are you aware of what Jesus Christ said about it? Do you realize that the bar has been raised concerning the command to be holy? Look at this, Stat.

Matthew 5. The Holy Bible King James Version

Jesus' Attitude toward the Law
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus' Attitude toward Anger
Lk. 12.57-59
21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; Ex. 20.13 · Deut. 5.17and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee;
24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Uhm, you missed the point.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

The only point that matters is the one that God is trying to get across to us, Stat. Here is another message that gives us His point of view on the matter of forgiveness.

Luke 16 KJV
The Law and the Prophets

(Matthew 11:7-19; Luke 1:5-25; Luke 7:24-35)
14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
______________
Now examine this story and see how the LORD teaches us about forgiveness, Stat.

Matthew 18. The Holy Bible King James Version

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Lk. 17.3, 4
23 ¶ Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellow servants, which owed him a hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Uh, the point of view from the Torah IS from G-d.

But the two are similar to each other.

In the Tanakh, forgiveness from G-d is only possible once you have achieved forgiveness from the person you have wronged, first.

 

[amrchaos]

Those who refuse forgiveness and reject Jesus Christ are rejecting the terms God has laid down for redemption. Therein they remain condemned in their sins and there is no pardon.

Are you aware what the Torah says about forgiveness?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Those who refuse forgiveness and reject Jesus Christ are rejecting the terms God has laid down for redemption. Therein they remain condemned in their sins and there is no pardon.

Are you aware what the Torah says about forgiveness?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Yes. Are you aware of what Jesus Christ said about it? Do you realize that the bar has been raised concerning the command to be holy? Look at this, Stat.

Matthew 5. The Holy Bible King James Version

Jesus' Attitude toward the Law
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus' Attitude toward Anger
Lk. 12.57-59
21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; Ex. 20.13 · Deut. 5.17and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee;
24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Uhm, you missed the point.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

The only point that matters is the one that God is trying to get across to us, Stat. Here is another message that gives us His point of view on the matter of forgiveness.

Luke 16 KJV
The Law and the Prophets

(Matthew 11:7-19; Luke 1:5-25; Luke 7:24-35)
14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
______________
Now examine this story and see how the LORD teaches us about forgiveness, Stat.

Matthew 18. The Holy Bible King James Version

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Lk. 17.3, 4
23 ¶ Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellow servants, which owed him a hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Uh, the point of view from the Torah IS from G-d.

But the two are similar to each other.

In the Tanakh, forgiveness from G-d is only possible once you have achieved forgiveness from the person you have wronged, first.

I want to make sure I understand this correctly...

If I am the victim of a transgression, and I beseech God for Justice--then no matter how much the transgressor beg and pleads God for forgiveness, no matter what is in the transgressor's heart, God will adminster justice---that is the Judaic view?

 

[Statistikhengst]

Are you aware what the Torah says about forgiveness?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Are you aware what the Torah says about forgiveness?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Yes. Are you aware of what Jesus Christ said about it? Do you realize that the bar has been raised concerning the command to be holy? Look at this, Stat.

Matthew 5. The Holy Bible King James Version

Jesus' Attitude toward the Law
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus' Attitude toward Anger
Lk. 12.57-59
21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; Ex. 20.13 · Deut. 5.17and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee;
24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Uhm, you missed the point.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

The only point that matters is the one that God is trying to get across to us, Stat. Here is another message that gives us His point of view on the matter of forgiveness.

Luke 16 KJV
The Law and the Prophets

(Matthew 11:7-19; Luke 1:5-25; Luke 7:24-35)
14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
______________
Now examine this story and see how the LORD teaches us about forgiveness, Stat.

Matthew 18. The Holy Bible King James Version

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Lk. 17.3, 4
23 ¶ Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellow servants, which owed him a hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Uh, the point of view from the Torah IS from G-d.

But the two are similar to each other.

In the Tanakh, forgiveness from G-d is only possible once you have achieved forgiveness from the person you have wronged, first.

I want to make sure I understand this correctly...

If I am the victim of a transgression, and I beseech God for Justice--then no matter how much the transgressor beg and pleads God for forgiveness, no matter what is in the transgressor's heart, God will adminster justice---that is the Judaic view?

Forgiveness and Justice are not the same thing. Non-sequitur.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The confusion is understandable. Forgiveness is in an instant, but salvation is a process that must be maintained to the end. Hebrews chapters 2 and 3 warn repeatedly that faith must be held steadfast to the end. See the difference now? Protestant teaching often muddies the water, teaching that salvation cannot be forfeited. But the Bible is clear that it can, that we do not lose free will, that we must persevere in our faith and that we can walk away from it if we choose.....and many people do.

It cannot be stressed enough that forgiveness is given to us unconditionally; a free gift for all who ask. But salvation is a culmination of our continued response to grace.

"Be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life." Revelation 2:10

And I really am trying to be clear for you and not confuse you.

I suspect the confusion is on your part upon realizing your rote beliefs don't always align as well as you had assumed.

Bulldog, not everyone preaches Christ from a pure heart or with a pure motive. We are warned about this in the King James Bible in the book of Philippians (there are other Scriptures but we'll focus on this one)

It is written:

Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife: and some of good will. The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, posing to add affliction to my bonds. But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? Not withstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached, and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Philippians 1:15-18

These are the words of Paul to the Philippians. What is Paul telling them? He is telling them not to be troubled by those who preach Christ from envy and strife. Because they were attempting to add afflictions to Paul who was a true follower of Jesus Christ - this was their motive.

They were not preaching for the love of Jesus Christ which was the motive of Paul's heart. They were preaching with "pretence", but Paul said he rejoiced because either way? The Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached!

Bulldog, when you encounter a person who claims to be a follower of Christ and a preacher of the Gospel and they put up the Scriptures - the Word of God - yet their own actions / words expose them - their condescension towards others, stirring up strife, using filthy language (in between their sermons) talking down to others, full of pride and haughtiness and boastfulness - do not focus on them because God will surely deal with them in due time - but rejoice that the Gospel is preached - even by the wicked!

This was what the LORD gave me the other morning during prayer as I was concerned about what some who profess Christ were doing on this board - I'm not longer concerned knowing that even in Paul's time he dealt with the same type of individuals!

These are the ones that will one day come to Jesus and say, but Lord! Didn't I preach your word and do many good things? And he will say depart from me ye worker of iniquity I never knew you.

I still haven't figured out when or why Paul's teachings became equal, or in some cases more important than those of Jesus.

I haven't figured out why you set up in your mind a conflict between Jesus and an apostle of Jesus.

Because Paul never even met Jesus in life, and their teachings contradict in many ways. On this particular subject,

Paul says:
Rom.9
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.

Jesus says:
Matt.7
[21] Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' [23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.

First off, St. Paul did meet Jesus "in life" and was personally commissioned by him, which is why he was qualified to call himself an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

Secondly, you'll have to help me with the conflict you're seeing. Are you claiming Jesus didn't teach salvation by grace?

Answer me this. What was the response of Jesus when his disciples asked him, "Who then can be saved?"

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Those who refuse forgiveness and reject Jesus Christ are rejecting the terms God has laid down for redemption. Therein they remain condemned in their sins and there is no pardon.

Are you aware what the Torah says about forgiveness?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Those who refuse forgiveness and reject Jesus Christ are rejecting the terms God has laid down for redemption. Therein they remain condemned in their sins and there is no pardon.

Are you aware what the Torah says about forgiveness?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Yes. Are you aware of what Jesus Christ said about it? Do you realize that the bar has been raised concerning the command to be holy? Look at this, Stat.

Matthew 5. The Holy Bible King James Version

Jesus' Attitude toward the Law
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus' Attitude toward Anger
Lk. 12.57-59
21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; Ex. 20.13 · Deut. 5.17and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee;
24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Uhm, you missed the point.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

The only point that matters is the one that God is trying to get across to us, Stat. Here is another message that gives us His point of view on the matter of forgiveness.

Luke 16 KJV
The Law and the Prophets

(Matthew 11:7-19; Luke 1:5-25; Luke 7:24-35)
14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
______________
Now examine this story and see how the LORD teaches us about forgiveness, Stat.

Matthew 18. The Holy Bible King James Version

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Lk. 17.3, 4
23 ¶ Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellow servants, which owed him a hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Uh, the point of view from the Torah IS from G-d.

But the two are similar to each other.

In the Tanakh, forgiveness from G-d is only possible once you have achieved forgiveness from the person you have wronged, first.

Jesus taught something similar. Care to guess which one of his teachings I'm referring to?

 

[BULLDOG]

I suspect the confusion is on your part upon realizing your rote beliefs don't always align as well as you had assumed.

Bulldog, not everyone preaches Christ from a pure heart or with a pure motive. We are warned about this in the King James Bible in the book of Philippians (there are other Scriptures but we'll focus on this one)

It is written:

Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife: and some of good will. The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, posing to add affliction to my bonds. But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? Not withstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached, and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Philippians 1:15-18

These are the words of Paul to the Philippians. What is Paul telling them? He is telling them not to be troubled by those who preach Christ from envy and strife. Because they were attempting to add afflictions to Paul who was a true follower of Jesus Christ - this was their motive.

They were not preaching for the love of Jesus Christ which was the motive of Paul's heart. They were preaching with "pretence", but Paul said he rejoiced because either way? The Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached!

Bulldog, when you encounter a person who claims to be a follower of Christ and a preacher of the Gospel and they put up the Scriptures - the Word of God - yet their own actions / words expose them - their condescension towards others, stirring up strife, using filthy language (in between their sermons) talking down to others, full of pride and haughtiness and boastfulness - do not focus on them because God will surely deal with them in due time - but rejoice that the Gospel is preached - even by the wicked!

This was what the LORD gave me the other morning during prayer as I was concerned about what some who profess Christ were doing on this board - I'm not longer concerned knowing that even in Paul's time he dealt with the same type of individuals!

These are the ones that will one day come to Jesus and say, but Lord! Didn't I preach your word and do many good things? And he will say depart from me ye worker of iniquity I never knew you.

I still haven't figured out when or why Paul's teachings became equal, or in some cases more important than those of Jesus.

I haven't figured out why you set up in your mind a conflict between Jesus and an apostle of Jesus.

Because Paul never even met Jesus in life, and their teachings contradict in many ways. On this particular subject,

Paul says:
Rom.9
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.

Jesus says:
Matt.7
[21] Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' [23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.

First off, St. Paul did meet Jesus "in life" and was personally commissioned by him, which is why he was qualified to call himself an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

Secondly, you'll have to help me with the conflict you're seeing. Are you claiming Jesus didn't teach salvation by grace?

Answer me this. What was the response of Jesus when his disciples asked him, "Who then can be saved?"

It is possible that Paul had seen Jesus at some point before the crucifixion, but there is no evidence of any interaction before his post-crucifixion conversion. Even then, he only claimed to hear a voice and see a bright light. If you find otherwise, please inform me where.

I'm saying that there are conditions that have to be met for salvation.

The response was that God can do things that man can't. While that is certainly true, it is not pertinent here.

 

[featherlite]

Everywhere else some of you mock and belittle the Bible, now you pick out the parts that serve a purpose for you and are preaching it.




Repentance is between Josh and God...the honest, final judgement rest with God. Morons with an agenda & public mob mentality is totally incapable of something like that.

Safety of kids is the important issue.

So... do you agree with the morons and the growing public mob that the safety of the kids is the most important issue?

Can I ass-u-me that's a 'yes'?

If you want to look at it that way...ass-u-me away.
I personally don't think there's anything thing wrong with looking at things differently or looking stupid while doing it. lol.
As long as I get to a decision I can accept.( and hopefully get to the right one)

 

[Mertex]

So which was it. Over a year? Or four years?

Read the post again. It took the parents 1 year to report it........it took the cop 4 years to file it.

 

[Mertex]

But without evidence that Josh Duggar is a danger to himself or anybody else, to drag all these people through the mud 12 years later for no better reason than it can be done and it is a slow news week is just wrong.

"Without evidence" - because he picks on children that don't have a voice? And there is a reason, to prevent another child from being abused. Since you yourself claim that we "don't know" whether Josh is a danger to others, wouldn't it be in the best interest of children (especially his) that it be determined whether or not he is still a predator?

 

[Mertex]

Repentance is between Josh and God...the honest, final judgement rest with God. Morons with an agenda & public mob mentality is totally incapable of something like that.

That's right, repentance is between Josh and God, and no one knows if that actually took place....a person can say they've repented, but only God sees the heart. There are plenty of examples of people that claim to have repented that go back to doing what they were doing before, so how do you or anyone else know that he is not doing that still?

Safety of kids is the important issue.

Exactly, and that is why there is concern that he hasn't been properly examined/investigated. Everyone defending Josh Duggar is just happy to bury everything and let it go, the children be damned.

 

[featherlite]

Repentance is between Josh and God...the honest, final judgement rest with God. Morons with an agenda & public mob mentality is totally incapable of something like that.

That's right, repentance is between Josh and God, and no one knows if that actually took place....a person can say they've repented, but only God sees the heart. There are plenty of examples of people that claim to have repented that go back to doing what they were doing before, so how do you or anyone else know that he is not doing that still?

Safety of kids is the important issue.

Exactly, and that is why there is concern that he hasn't been properly examined/investigated. Everyone defending Josh Duggar is just happy to bury everything and let it go, the children be damned.

Maybe, but a bunch of inflammatory remarks and unverified character assaults is just as damaging to the truth.
Yes to... protecting kids first.

 

[Mertex]

Repentance is between Josh and God...the honest, final judgement rest with God. Morons with an agenda & public mob mentality is totally incapable of something like that.

That's right, repentance is between Josh and God, and no one knows if that actually took place....a person can say they've repented, but only God sees the heart. There are plenty of examples of people that claim to have repented that go back to doing what they were doing before, so how do you or anyone else know that he is not doing that still?

Safety of kids is the important issue.

Exactly, and that is why there is concern that he hasn't been properly examined/investigated. Everyone defending Josh Duggar is just happy to bury everything and let it go, the children be damned.

Maybe, but a bunch of inflammatory remarks and unverified character assaults is just as damaging to the truth.
Yes to... protecting kids first.

I don't know about the inflammatory remarks....it is what it is, and I don't know who is making them to his face. People are expressing their opinions. As far as the unverified character assaults, as long as his crime is kept under wraps and no investigation is done, the kids are not being protected.

 

[featherlite]

Repentance is between Josh and God...the honest, final judgement rest with God. Morons with an agenda & public mob mentality is totally incapable of something like that.

That's right, repentance is between Josh and God, and no one knows if that actually took place....a person can say they've repented, but only God sees the heart. There are plenty of examples of people that claim to have repented that go back to doing what they were doing before, so how do you or anyone else know that he is not doing that still?

Safety of kids is the important issue.

Exactly, and that is why there is concern that he hasn't been properly examined/investigated. Everyone defending Josh Duggar is just happy to bury everything and let it go, the children be damned.

Maybe, but a bunch of inflammatory remarks and unverified character assaults is just as damaging to the truth.
Yes to... protecting kids first.

I don't know about the inflammatory remarks....it is what it is, and I don't know who is making them to his face. People are expressing their opinions. As far as the unverified character assaults, as long as his crime is kept under wraps and no investigation is done, the kids are not being protected.

Yessss I know. I just knew little about this family and the opinions were getting in the way.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Bulldog, not everyone preaches Christ from a pure heart or with a pure motive. We are warned about this in the King James Bible in the book of Philippians (there are other Scriptures but we'll focus on this one)

It is written:

Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife: and some of good will. The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, posing to add affliction to my bonds. But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? Not withstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached, and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Philippians 1:15-18

These are the words of Paul to the Philippians. What is Paul telling them? He is telling them not to be troubled by those who preach Christ from envy and strife. Because they were attempting to add afflictions to Paul who was a true follower of Jesus Christ - this was their motive.

They were not preaching for the love of Jesus Christ which was the motive of Paul's heart. They were preaching with "pretence", but Paul said he rejoiced because either way? The Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached!

Bulldog, when you encounter a person who claims to be a follower of Christ and a preacher of the Gospel and they put up the Scriptures - the Word of God - yet their own actions / words expose them - their condescension towards others, stirring up strife, using filthy language (in between their sermons) talking down to others, full of pride and haughtiness and boastfulness - do not focus on them because God will surely deal with them in due time - but rejoice that the Gospel is preached - even by the wicked!

This was what the LORD gave me the other morning during prayer as I was concerned about what some who profess Christ were doing on this board - I'm not longer concerned knowing that even in Paul's time he dealt with the same type of individuals!

These are the ones that will one day come to Jesus and say, but Lord! Didn't I preach your word and do many good things? And he will say depart from me ye worker of iniquity I never knew you.

I still haven't figured out when or why Paul's teachings became equal, or in some cases more important than those of Jesus.

I haven't figured out why you set up in your mind a conflict between Jesus and an apostle of Jesus.

Because Paul never even met Jesus in life, and their teachings contradict in many ways. On this particular subject,

Paul says:
Rom.9
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.

Jesus says:
Matt.7
[21] Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[22] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' [23] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.

First off, St. Paul did meet Jesus "in life" and was personally commissioned by him, which is why he was qualified to call himself an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

Secondly, you'll have to help me with the conflict you're seeing. Are you claiming Jesus didn't teach salvation by grace?

Answer me this. What was the response of Jesus when his disciples asked him, "Who then can be saved?"

It is possible that Paul had seen Jesus at some point before the crucifixion, but there is no evidence of any interaction before his post-crucifixion conversion. Even then, he only claimed to hear a voice and see a bright light. If you find otherwise, please inform me where.

I'm saying that there are conditions that have to be met for salvation.

The response was that God can do things that man can't. While that is certainly true, it is not pertinent here.

Yes it is pertinent because it directly affirms what Paul was teaching in the passage you cited. Now you're just being intentionally thick.

If that's the best "example" you have that St. Paul's teachings and Christ's are at loggerheads, then you're finished.

 

[Foxfyre]

But without evidence that Josh Duggar is a danger to himself or anybody else, to drag all these people through the mud 12 years later for no better reason than it can be done and it is a slow news week is just wrong.

"Without evidence" - because he picks on children that don't have a voice? And there is a reason, to prevent another child from being abused. Since you yourself claim that we "don't know" whether Josh is a danger to others, wouldn't it be in the best interest of children (especially his) that it be determined whether or not he is still a predator?

Isn't that for those involved in the situation to determine though? There is zero evidence that there have been any further incidents since Josh fessed up his sin. We don't know what psychological evaluations or background checks there have been, but in most organizations involving children these days, those are pretty comprehensive. And yes, some pervs and serial offenders still get through the background checks.

But it is not for us who are not there, who don't know, who can't know what has been done or what the situation is to judge who and what Josh Duggar is now, 12 years after his offenses as a 14-15 year old kid. If everybody who ever did anything sexually inappropriate as a curious kid is to be forever condemned, there won't be a hell of a lot of us who aren't condemned.

 

[Mertex]

But without evidence that Josh Duggar is a danger to himself or anybody else, to drag all these people through the mud 12 years later for no better reason than it can be done and it is a slow news week is just wrong.

"Without evidence" - because he picks on children that don't have a voice? And there is a reason, to prevent another child from being abused. Since you yourself claim that we "don't know" whether Josh is a danger to others, wouldn't it be in the best interest of children (especially his) that it be determined whether or not he is still a predator?

Isn't that for those involved in the situation to determine though?

Well yes, I haven't sent any e-mails or demanded my Congressman do something.

There is zero evidence that there have been any further incidents since Josh fessed up his sin.

There is zero evidence because no one has looked into it or because they have done an investigation and found none of his children or others having been offended?

We don't know what psychological evaluations or background checks there have been, but in most organizations involving children these days, those are pretty comprehensive. And yes, some pervs and serial offenders still get through the background checks.

Yes, when it is reported and DHS is involved, which I believe they are now and are currently investigating.

But it is not for us who are not there, who don't know, who can't know what has been done or what the situation is to judge who and what Josh Duggar is now, 12 years after his offenses as a 14-15 year old kid. If everybody who ever did anything sexually inappropriate as a curious kid is to be forever condemned, there won't be a hell of a lot of us who aren't condemned.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I never did anything sexually inappropriate when I was 14, 15, 16, 17, or ever. We're talking criminal action here.....I really don't believe that too many people would be condemned for something like that. But I don't see anything wrong with people expressing their opinions and demanding an investigation, why should Josh be given a pass?

 

[Foxfyre]

But without evidence that Josh Duggar is a danger to himself or anybody else, to drag all these people through the mud 12 years later for no better reason than it can be done and it is a slow news week is just wrong.

"Without evidence" - because he picks on children that don't have a voice? And there is a reason, to prevent another child from being abused. Since you yourself claim that we "don't know" whether Josh is a danger to others, wouldn't it be in the best interest of children (especially his) that it be determined whether or not he is still a predator?

Isn't that for those involved in the situation to determine though?

Well yes, I haven't sent any e-mails or demanded my Congressman do something.

There is zero evidence that there have been any further incidents since Josh fessed up his sin.

There is zero evidence because no one has looked into it or because they have done an investigation and found none of his children or others having been offended?

We don't know what psychological evaluations or background checks there have been, but in most organizations involving children these days, those are pretty comprehensive. And yes, some pervs and serial offenders still get through the background checks.

Yes, when it is reported and DHS is involved, which I believe they are now and are currently investigating.

But it is not for us who are not there, who don't know, who can't know what has been done or what the situation is to judge who and what Josh Duggar is now, 12 years after his offenses as a 14-15 year old kid. If everybody who ever did anything sexually inappropriate as a curious kid is to be forever condemned, there won't be a hell of a lot of us who aren't condemned.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I never did anything sexually inappropriate when I was 14, 15, 16, 17, or ever. We're talking criminal action here.....I really don't believe that too many people would be condemned for something like that. But I don't see anything wrong with people expressing their opinions and demanding an investigation, why should Josh be given a pass?

Well good for you that you never did anything inappropriate. I doubt many people can say that. I had my own experiences with the neighborhood boys around that age and while extremely annoying and sometimes embarrassing it certainly did not traumatize me. Nor do I believe any of those boys, or a couple of girls who were sexually aggressive, grew up to be perverts or molesters or anything other than decent family men or women and good citizens. Certainly it would never have occurred to me to report them 12 years after the fact. And I'm pretty sure their parents to this day have no clue what they were doing back then. But could I and some of the other girls make their lives miserable by outing them now in the always-willing-for-a-good-scandal media? Sure we could. And it would be cruel and wrong to do so.

Again it is all a matter of proportion. And also a matter of just plain old common sense sometimes.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Apparently, Fox, you are a victim of child molestation. I'm sorry to hear that., but it does not make the act less heinous, or the crime less serious. The Duggars covered it up. That makes them culpable. Even today, they maintain that it was only a "mistake" made by Josh. that puts them in the "denial' category. The parents need counseling as much as Josh did. As for Josh, I don't care if he is forgiven by god or not. I don't want him anywhere around my granddaughter, and I can understand why any other parent would feel the same way. Presumably, unless he moves to Phoenix, I won't have to worry about Josh, personally. However, he has been given a pss for behavior that, in my state, could have made him classified as a sexual predator with the requirement that he register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. That would have been appropriate.

 

[Foxfyre]

Apparently, Fox, you are a victim of child molestation. I'm sorry to hear that., but it does not make the act less heinous, or the crime less serious. The Duggars covered it up. That makes them culpable. Even today, they maintain that it was only a "mistake" made by Josh. that puts them in the "denial' category. The parents need counseling as much as Josh did. As for Josh, I don't care if he is forgiven by god or not. I don't want him anywhere around my granddaughter, and I can understand why any other parent would feel the same way. Presumably, unless he moves to Phoenix, I won't have to worry about Josh, personally. However, he has been given a pss for behavior that, in my state, could have made him classified as a sexual predator with the requirement that he register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. That would have been appropriate.

I wasn't molested at all. I was harassed and teased. There is a difference between those two things though in this PC world some people don't seem to be able to make the distinction. And I don't believe in ruining the lives of people who have long left behind the dumb, stupid, even hateful things they did as kids.

For reasons I have already posted, I know what serial offenders are and I know how dangerous they are to kids and others. I have been responsible to protect my own kids and hundreds of others from that kind of predator. And yes caution is very very necessary--everybody ought to do a sex offender check among other things before they move into a new neighborhood. All this I know. I just see no evidence that Josh Duggar belongs in that category.