Josh Duggar And The Message Of Forgiveness

[Luddly Neddite]

I have not seen a single soul defend Josh Duggar or what he did.

Someone needs to read their posts again.......claiming that we should ignore this crime because it happened a long time ago, without proof that Josh Duggar has actually been vindicated by all victims is Defending Josh Duggar.

If there are such posts, I am sure you can post the post numbers. Selective reading and interpretation is not an honest portrayal of what anybody has said. For instance I am pretty darn sure nobody has said that Josh Duggar has been vindicated by any victims, let alone all. I certainly have not said that; in fact have pretty effectively said the polar opposite of that. Making a little effort to represent what people actually said instead of rewriting it into a straw man would great strengthen the argument.

I'm not going to go through all your posts....but it is clear that you have insinuated that because it happened so long ago (12 years) that we should not bring it up....and you also claimed that all the victims have moved on, but apparently the babysitter, who has now filed a suit against him, hasn't, and for that reason alone, he should be held accountable.

You claim that "demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass" but that is exactly what conservatives are doing....you certainly did not give Bill Clinton a pass, most conservatives still bring up his indiscretion and call him a pedophile, yet he was never convicted, but you are willing to give Josh Duggar a pass when he has never even been called to account for what he did. You also have no proof that what Josh Duggar did caused no lasting harm. Just because his sisters are willing to hush up about it, doesn't mean that they are not suffering, and certainly the baby sitter may be.

Also, since when is it up to different individuals to search our own hearts for what is appropriate in any given case? A sexual crime is a crime, and there are punishments that go along with that crime, and it is up to a jury to decide what is appropriate, not those who happen to know him or like him.

Did you demand the same for Barney Frank? For Bill Clinton? For Gerry Studds? For Ted Kennedy and/or his nephew who he defended? Etc. etc. etc. Once we get on the slippery slope of demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case. It seems to me that Josh Duggar has suffered huge public embarrassment and significant consequence for his past sins. If his sisters can forgive him and assure us that all is well, what is it to the rest of us to allow him to get on with his life? What purpose is served by locking up a repentent adult because of something stupid he did in his youth that caused no lasting harm?

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case. It seems to me that Josh Duggar has suffered huge public embarrassment and significant consequence for his past sins. If his sisters can forgive him and assure us that all is well, what is it to the rest of us to allow him to get on with his life? What purpose is served by locking up a repentent adult because of something stupid he did in his youth?

I don't remember a lot of RWnut recommendations of counseling, understanding, and forgiveness for Bill Clinton having an affair with a consenting adult.

So that makes quid pro quo honorable? If we use the 'they did it first' or 'they do it too' as legitimate argument for attacking people, it is no wonder this is an increasingly sorry world we live in.

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

when you scoff at his scoffers is it not destructive, mean spirited, hateful, or evil?

I don't scoff at the scoffers. But I have my own perceptions of right and wrong, good and bad, just and unjust, and I think we are commanded to judge the behavior of everybody including ourselves.

Well yes, I haven't sent any e-mails or demanded my Congressman do something.

There is zero evidence because no one has looked into it or because they have done an investigation and found none of his children or others having been offended?

We don't know what psychological evaluations or background checks there have been, but in most organizations involving children these days, those are pretty comprehensive. And yes, some pervs and serial offenders still get through the background checks.

Yes, when it is reported and DHS is involved, which I believe they are now and are currently investigating.

But it is not for us who are not there, who don't know, who can't know what has been done or what the situation is to judge who and what Josh Duggar is now, 12 years after his offenses as a 14-15 year old kid. If everybody who ever did anything sexually inappropriate as a curious kid is to be forever condemned, there won't be a hell of a lot of us who aren't condemned.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I never did anything sexually inappropriate when I was 14, 15, 16, 17, or ever. We're talking criminal action here.....I really don't believe that too many people would be condemned for something like that. But I don't see anything wrong with people expressing their opinions and demanding an investigation, why should Josh be given a pass?

Well good for you that you never did anything inappropriate. I doubt many people can say that. I had my own experiences with the neighborhood boys around that age and while extremely annoying and sometimes embarrassing it certainly did not traumatize me. Nor do I believe any of those boys, or a couple of girls who were sexually aggressive, grew up to be perverts or molesters or anything other than decent family men or women and good citizens. Certainly it would never have occurred to me to report them 12 years after the fact. And I'm pretty sure their parents to this day have no clue what they were doing back then. But could I and some of the other girls make their lives miserable by outing them now in the always-willing-for-a-good-scandal media? Sure we could. And it would be cruel and wrong to do so.

Again it is all a matter of proportion. And also a matter of just plain old common sense sometimes.

Well Mertex and Foxfyre, as I am not American and don't have a horse in the race so to speak, I don't care for the political angle. Crimes are crimes. When it happended it should have been reported to the police and not a highway patrolman and friend of the family who was a pedo. We do not know what has happened in the last 12 years Foyfyre precicely because it wasn't reported and there was no follow up. That is the whole point.

The offenses were reported to the police and there was an investigation. The 'victims', who didn't feel all that victimized, were solemnly assured their testimony would never be made public. The only reason the victims came forward now to tell their story is because the police report was vindictively and mean spiritedly made public in a most cruel manner. And now the victims, who had long put this behind them and have long forgiven their brother, are being victimized again by those who get their jollies from demonizing people in cases like this. I personally believe it is mostly because Josh Duggar is a conservative evangelical Christian that the attack dogs are gleefully attempting to rip him apart and in the process are hurting many other people. You don't see them attacking as passionately or with such conviction any of their own.

What Josh Duggar did was very wrong which he confessed and acknowledged. None of his victims were materially harmed and there apparently is no on going trauma from it. There is zero evidence that he ever committed that kind of particular sin in the 12 years since it occurred. It is wrong to dredge it up now for sport and purient vindictiveness. His victims have forgiven him and have moved on. We all should do the same until he gives anybody any reason to believe he is a danger to himself or others and stop victimizing the victims which is what we are mostly doing.

Oh yeah, can't let a good scandal go to waste can we. Especially if the focus of it is rich and famous and substantial money can be made. And there is already a lot of discussion about it out there. Would the baby sitter have filed suit without all the sensational publicity? If not, what were her damages really?

Maybe it's as bad as you seem to want it to be Mertex. I don't know. But I am pretty sure we wouldn't be having this discussion if Josh Duggar and his family weren't Christian, conservative, and rich.

I am ABSOLUTELY sure that this conversation would not be happening is Josh were an atheist. Conservatives would be the first to hang him from the nearest live oak tree.

You're right and its ridiculous to say Josh is the victim because his parents turned their family into a sideshow - for money.

It truly sickens me to see RWs here defending admitted child molesters like Duggar, Ted Nugent and the old Duck Dynasty fart.

Duggars chose to pimp out their kids and their religion for $40K an episode. That's their business but it doesn't change that they helped their own children get molested, hid the molester, aided and abetted his repeated molestations. The RWs can make excuses for them - that they should get a pass because they're rich, rabid right, fundie, but that's really at the center of it all.

It takes courage to do what Duggar's babysitter is doing but Josh Duggar will get off and he will molest again and again. He is busily making his future victims - he has small kids and another on the way.

Good news out of this is that people outside the family know what he is and will hopefully protect their own kids.

 

[Papageorgio]

No. He died for those that had already changed and received forgiveness. You probably need to reread that part.

Those who refuse forgiveness and reject Jesus Christ are rejecting the terms God has laid down for redemption. Therein they remain condemned in their sins and there is no pardon.

My daughter was molested by a man. I don't forgive him and he has never asked for forgiveness. So I don't need to do what is not requested. In fact years later he tried to contact my daughter after she was an adult. As far as I'm concerned he is not repented and is a perp. If he died tomorrow, I'd be happy. The only man I have ever felt that way about.

I am very sorry that your daughter suffered such a thing. There isn't anything worse than being molested as a child. It is the most destructive thing anyone could ever do to a child. I'm a survivor. It has taken many years to overcome some things and that was even after I accepted Christ, Georgio. Many years.

There is no question that you truly love your daughter and I know that she must be very grateful to have a father who cares so much about her well being and safety. I knew a man once who couldn't forgive someone who had harmed him greatly. The person never asked forgiveness. He was diagnosed with cancer and we talked on the phone about his salvation and he prayed with me and I thought it was settled. Later on the Holy Spirit checked me that something was undone. He had unforgiveness in his heart.

So I called him back and I asked him if he had any unforgiveness towards someone and he said yes! And he told me who it was and what had happened. I asked him would you be willing to tell God - I cannot forgive this person but I willing to ask you to forgive them through me. He said, Yes! The moment he said that the burden of that pain lifted off of him and he was free of it. I told him, God is writing your name in the Lamb's book of life right now. He said, I know! I see his hand writing my name on a granite tablet! He was so happy! God actually gave him a vision of Him recording his name in the Lamb's book of life. I have never seen that happen to anyone else in my life before but it happened to him and I've never seen a man more at peace (that I can recall!) - even to the day he went home to be with the LORD.

I am going to be praying each morning for the LORD to watch over and protect you and your loved ones and that He will give you confirmation of what I've told you so that you will know it isn't just some person telling you this.

You are very precious to Jesus and I have no doubt in my heart that you are most sincere. It's rare to see and you are blessing to me today. Thank you, Georgio.

p.s. Although I tell you that I am healed of my childhood - I still cry when I read threads like this and read certain things that bring back that sorrow. It's not all roses, Georgio. I just have to be honest about that.

I'm a grandmother and I still weep over what happened to me as a child when I am reminded of it by threads like these. I never think of it unless someone brings it up by way of a discussion about child abuse. Well, I have to go now. Have a wonderful day, Georgio.

The effect that is has had on my daughters life is devastating, she went to self medicate with the pain, she has a low self esteem and I see the promise of a great life turning to more pain. The guy that molested her is out of prison, and yet his effects on my daughter have continued on.

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers, I have issue with Duggar and his parents, in my opinion, minimizing his actions. It tells me that they haven't accepted the gravity of the whole situation and the possible effects it will have on the daughters.

My daughter is coming around to admitting she needs some help other than drugs, I am hoping she can beat it. It is nice to see my daughter have hope, she is truly an amazing girl.

Jeremiah, we may disagree on things but I commend you on surviving the abuse suffered as a child and I am glad you can forgive. I don't know if I'm there yet.

Papageorgio

I'm so very sorry about your daughter. I was abused and molested throughout my childhood and I know it leaves scars that cannot always be seen but are always there.

Society does not look on child molestation as a serious crime. Molesters walk away but their victims get a life sentence.

No, I'm not "there" yet either.

Thank you Luddly and I'm sorry for the abuse and molestation that you had to endure.

The life sentence for my daughter has huge complications now. I still can't forgive or forget what that guy did to my daughter. If there is a hell, I want him there.

 

[bodecea]

So, Fox, you would have no problem if the guy next door to you and your children had a history of child molestation, because you have not seen any evidence of it for over a decade?

I would think that any good parent of young children, particularly girls, would be concerned with Josh living in our neighborhood.

 

[Mertex]

Isn't the topic whether forgiveness trumps the law?

Yes, and why it does or it doesn't is being discussed.

 

[Mertex]

I have not seen a single soul defend Josh Duggar or what he did.

Someone needs to read their posts again.......claiming that we should ignore this crime because it happened a long time ago, without proof that Josh Duggar has actually been vindicated by all victims is Defending Josh Duggar.

If there are such posts, I am sure you can post the post numbers. Selective reading and interpretation is not an honest portrayal of what anybody has said. For instance I am pretty darn sure nobody has said that Josh Duggar has been vindicated by any victims, let alone all. I certainly have not said that; in fact have pretty effectively said the polar opposite of that. Making a little effort to represent what people actually said instead of rewriting it into a straw man would great strengthen the argument.

I'm not going to go through all your posts....but it is clear that you have insinuated that because it happened so long ago (12 years) that we should not bring it up....and you also claimed that all the victims have moved on, but apparently the babysitter, who has now filed a suit against him, hasn't, and for that reason alone, he should be held accountable.

You claim that "demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass" but that is exactly what conservatives are doing....you certainly did not give Bill Clinton a pass, most conservatives still bring up his indiscretion and call him a pedophile, yet he was never convicted, but you are willing to give Josh Duggar a pass when he has never even been called to account for what he did. You also have no proof that what Josh Duggar did caused no lasting harm. Just because his sisters are willing to hush up about it, doesn't mean that they are not suffering, and certainly the baby sitter may be.

Also, since when is it up to different individuals to search our own hearts for what is appropriate in any given case? A sexual crime is a crime, and there are punishments that go along with that crime, and it is up to a jury to decide what is appropriate, not those who happen to know him or like him.

Did you demand the same for Barney Frank? For Bill Clinton? For Gerry Studds? For Ted Kennedy and/or his nephew who he defended? Etc. etc. etc. Once we get on the slippery slope of demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case. It seems to me that Josh Duggar has suffered huge public embarrassment and significant consequence for his past sins. If his sisters can forgive him and assure us that all is well, what is it to the rest of us to allow him to get on with his life? What purpose is served by locking up a repentent adult because of something stupid he did in his youth that caused no lasting harm?

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case. It seems to me that Josh Duggar has suffered huge public embarrassment and significant consequence for his past sins. If his sisters can forgive him and assure us that all is well, what is it to the rest of us to allow him to get on with his life? What purpose is served by locking up a repentent adult because of something stupid he did in his youth?

I don't remember a lot of RWnut recommendations of counseling, understanding, and forgiveness for Bill Clinton having an affair with a consenting adult.

So that makes quid pro quo honorable? If we use the 'they did it first' or 'they do it too' as legitimate argument for attacking people, it is no wonder this is an increasingly sorry world we live in.

Well in keeping with Jesus admonition to "Judge not lest we be judged also", I don't know what is in the heart and mind of the scoffers. I will judge their actions as a destructive, mean spirited, hateful dynamic, but it has not been given to me to judge the people or know what evil prompts their behavior.

I just know there's an awful lot of it going around and that our common lives together suffers because of it.

when you scoff at his scoffers is it not destructive, mean spirited, hateful, or evil?

I don't scoff at the scoffers. But I have my own perceptions of right and wrong, good and bad, just and unjust, and I think we are commanded to judge the behavior of everybody including ourselves.

"Without evidence" - because he picks on children that don't have a voice? And there is a reason, to prevent another child from being abused. Since you yourself claim that we "don't know" whether Josh is a danger to others, wouldn't it be in the best interest of children (especially his) that it be determined whether or not he is still a predator?

Isn't that for those involved in the situation to determine though?

Well yes, I haven't sent any e-mails or demanded my Congressman do something.

There is zero evidence that there have been any further incidents since Josh fessed up his sin.

There is zero evidence because no one has looked into it or because they have done an investigation and found none of his children or others having been offended?

We don't know what psychological evaluations or background checks there have been, but in most organizations involving children these days, those are pretty comprehensive. And yes, some pervs and serial offenders still get through the background checks.

Yes, when it is reported and DHS is involved, which I believe they are now and are currently investigating.

But it is not for us who are not there, who don't know, who can't know what has been done or what the situation is to judge who and what Josh Duggar is now, 12 years after his offenses as a 14-15 year old kid. If everybody who ever did anything sexually inappropriate as a curious kid is to be forever condemned, there won't be a hell of a lot of us who aren't condemned.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I never did anything sexually inappropriate when I was 14, 15, 16, 17, or ever. We're talking criminal action here.....I really don't believe that too many people would be condemned for something like that. But I don't see anything wrong with people expressing their opinions and demanding an investigation, why should Josh be given a pass?

Well good for you that you never did anything inappropriate. I doubt many people can say that. I had my own experiences with the neighborhood boys around that age and while extremely annoying and sometimes embarrassing it certainly did not traumatize me. Nor do I believe any of those boys, or a couple of girls who were sexually aggressive, grew up to be perverts or molesters or anything other than decent family men or women and good citizens. Certainly it would never have occurred to me to report them 12 years after the fact. And I'm pretty sure their parents to this day have no clue what they were doing back then. But could I and some of the other girls make their lives miserable by outing them now in the always-willing-for-a-good-scandal media? Sure we could. And it would be cruel and wrong to do so.

Again it is all a matter of proportion. And also a matter of just plain old common sense sometimes.

Well Mertex and Foxfyre, as I am not American and don't have a horse in the race so to speak, I don't care for the political angle. Crimes are crimes. When it happended it should have been reported to the police and not a highway patrolman and friend of the family who was a pedo. We do not know what has happened in the last 12 years Foyfyre precicely because it wasn't reported and there was no follow up. That is the whole point.

The offenses were reported to the police and there was an investigation. The 'victims', who didn't feel all that victimized, were solemnly assured their testimony would never be made public. The only reason the victims came forward now to tell their story is because the police report was vindictively and mean spiritedly made public in a most cruel manner. And now the victims, who had long put this behind them and have long forgiven their brother, are being victimized again by those who get their jollies from demonizing people in cases like this. I personally believe it is mostly because Josh Duggar is a conservative evangelical Christian that the attack dogs are gleefully attempting to rip him apart and in the process are hurting many other people. You don't see them attacking as passionately or with such conviction any of their own.

What Josh Duggar did was very wrong which he confessed and acknowledged. None of his victims were materially harmed and there apparently is no on going trauma from it. There is zero evidence that he ever committed that kind of particular sin in the 12 years since it occurred. It is wrong to dredge it up now for sport and purient vindictiveness. His victims have forgiven him and have moved on. We all should do the same until he gives anybody any reason to believe he is a danger to himself or others and stop victimizing the victims which is what we are mostly doing.

Oh yeah, can't let a good scandal go to waste can we. Especially if the focus of it is rich and famous and substantial money can be made. And there is already a lot of discussion about it out there. Would the baby sitter have filed suit without all the sensational publicity? If not, what were her damages really?

You spelled "crime" wrong. And the fact that they are rich and famous and belong to the "religious right" is the biggest reason so many on the right are defending him and trying to make his crime into a "not a big deal". And yes, there is a lot of discussion because it merits it. Why is this one pedophile being given a pass.....why is he the only one that gets to bypass any investigation by the law and allowed to continue living as if he did nothing?

And you're right, the babysitter probably wouldn't have filed suit without all the coverage this is getting, but it would have been because she might have been intimidated by Josh's parents, probably the same way they have intimidated their own daughters, to keep their mouth's shut because it might cut into their earnings. And you have no way of knowing that the babysitter didn't suffer any damages, but it sure seems like Josh must be protected from any damages.

Maybe it's as bad as you seem to want it to be Mertex. I don't know. But I am pretty sure we wouldn't be having this discussion if Josh Duggar and his family weren't Christian, conservative, and rich.

You are absolutely right, if Josh Duggar and his family weren't rich, conservative and Christian, poor Josh would be in jail and would have a "sex offender" title attached to his name forever. Funny what money and the right political supporters can do to minimize a crime.

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't seen a soul here or anywhere else who has defended him.

 

[Valerie]

sure you can act holier than thou and declare that you don't ''defend'' duggar while you are really posting here to agree with all his "good ideas" because you have an AGENDA which actually judges others to the extent of advocating second class treatment due to some religious notion of SIN which is not up for governments to FORGIVE.

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I haven't seen a soul here or anywhere else who has defended him.

Foxfyre

You have and you said he is being victimized because he's rich, RW and a fundie nutter.

Other RWs have written similar crap.

As astounding as it is, Avatar4321 even said he should be forgiven and agreed with his religion that it is victim's fault.

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't seen a soul here or anywhere else who has defended him.

Foxfyre

You have and you said he is being victimized because he's rich, RW and a fundie nutter.

Other RWs have written similar crap.

As astounding as it is, Avatar4321 even said he should be forgiven and agreed with his religion that it is victim's fault.

I have said nothing of the sort.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I haven't seen a soul here or anywhere else who has defended him.

Foxfyre

You have and you said he is being victimized because he's rich, RW and a fundie nutter.

Other RWs have written similar crap.

As astounding as it is, Avatar4321 even said he should be forgiven and agreed with his religion that it is victim's fault.

I have said nothing of the sort.

Really? You should report to the mods that someone is posting under your name in this thread.

Then you can read and respond to Valerie 's post #507.

Take responsibility for your own words.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I haven't seen a soul here or anywhere else who has defended him.

Foxfyre

You have and you said he is being victimized because he's rich, RW and a fundie nutter.

Other RWs have written similar crap.

As astounding as it is, Avatar4321 even said he should be forgiven and agreed with his religion that it is victim's fault.

I have said nothing of the sort.

Actually, you did say exactly that.

Oh yeah, can't let a good scandal go to waste can we. Especially if the focus of it is rich and famous and substantial money can be made. And there is already a lot of discussion about it out there. Would the baby sitter have filed suit without all the sensational publicity? If not, what were her damages really?

Maybe it's as bad as you seem to want it to be Mertex. I don't know. But I am pretty sure we wouldn't be having this discussion if Josh Duggar and his family weren't Christian, conservative, and rich.

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't seen a soul here or anywhere else who has defended him.

Foxfyre

You have and you said he is being victimized because he's rich, RW and a fundie nutter.

Other RWs have written similar crap.

As astounding as it is, Avatar4321 even said he should be forgiven and agreed with his religion that it is victim's fault.

I have said nothing of the sort.

Really? You should report to the mods that someone is posting under your name in this thread.

Then you can read and respond to Valerie 's post #507.

Take responsibility for your own words.

I take responsibility for my own words. Which is why I know that both she and you and full of it when you presume to tell me what I posted.

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't seen a soul here or anywhere else who has defended him.

Foxfyre

You have and you said he is being victimized because he's rich, RW and a fundie nutter.

Other RWs have written similar crap.

As astounding as it is, Avatar4321 even said he should be forgiven and agreed with his religion that it is victim's fault.

I have said nothing of the sort.

Actually, you did say exactly that.

Oh yeah, can't let a good scandal go to waste can we. Especially if the focus of it is rich and famous and substantial money can be made. And there is already a lot of discussion about it out there. Would the baby sitter have filed suit without all the sensational publicity? If not, what were her damages really?

Maybe it's as bad as you seem to want it to be Mertex. I don't know. But I am pretty sure we wouldn't be having this discussion if Josh Duggar and his family weren't Christian, conservative, and rich.

Nope. What I said and what I am accused of saying are not the same thing at all. But nice try.

 

[Vandalshandle]

There is a fine line between "defending Josh Duggar", and accusing others of "making a mountain out of a mole hill", regarding Josh Duggar., which are, in fact, your words from the first page, Fire. I guess that being critical of Josh's detractors for condemning his actions is not considered "defending him" by you. So be it. It is just semantics, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Mertex]

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

You may not agree with me, but your words there, the way I interpret them is that Josh Duggar has already paid enough for his crime and we should not even bring it up and demand he be treated like any other person that commits the same type of crime. If you don't consider that "defending" him, then our definitions of defending may differ....but, really, if every person that commits the same type of behavior toward a child as Josh Duggar were just left to his/her own parents to have him/her counseled and declared cured...our country would be in a lot of trouble and our children wouldn't be safe.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

You may not agree with me, but your words there, the way I interpret them is that Josh Duggar has already paid enough for his crime and we should not even bring it up and demand he be treated like any other person that commits the same type of crime. If you don't consider that "defending" him, then our definitions of defending may differ....but, really, if every person that commits the same type of behavior toward a child as Josh Duggar were just left to his/her own parents to have him/her counseled and declared cured...our country would be in a lot of trouble and our children wouldn't be safe.

Mertex

Foxfyre and others have said Josh should get a pass because he's wealthy, RW, fundie. Several have also said it happened once when he was 14 and never since - which is untrue. Its also not true that he confessed the first time. It was several years later, after he came back from their pedo friend, that he confessed that he had done it again. Foxfyre is not qualified to say his repeated attacks did no harm.

Child predators do not molest just once or twice. Its a life-time obsession/compulsion. And they often start very young.

Where do people think adult pedophiles come from?

 

[Foxfyre]

Again neither I nor anybody else has defended Josh Duggar nor have I seen ANYBODY here say that he should get a pass on anything. I fail to understand why certain people have to ignore what people actually say and/or make up stuff about what people say in order to attack it. Maybe if they honestly actually addressed the other person's point, they wouldn't see much there to attack and what fun is there in that?

At any rate, this started out as an interesting discussion and could have been had members focused on the OP. And I'm quite sure the OP did not intend for the thread to be about me. I doubt I have anything different to contribute at this point and have pretty much said what I want to say, so I am unsubscribing.

Everybody have a good day.

 

[Esmeralda]

I haven't seen a soul here or anywhere else who has defended him.

Then you are blind as a bat. Calling child molestation the normal curiosity of a teenager IS defending him. It is not normal, not one whit.

 

[Valerie]

would be helpful to have that old feature where you can search a thread by each individual's posts, so i could quickly list all of the times duggar was defended by whom. plus i could highlight all of the virtual rotten tomatoes foxfyre threw at others...

 

[Valerie]

i'm working right now, so that's just not gonna happen any time soon...

anyway i doubt it's even worth the effort because speaking out of both sides of her mouth without ever recognizing it and insulting others without ever acknowledging it, is just par for the course with her on her high horse... i learned that long long ago in an old torture thread and have avoided topical 'discussions' with her ever since.