Zone1 Jon Stewart questions the transgender protections in Arkansas

[Couchpotato]

Gender reassignment surgery is done only on adults and there is usually a lengthy process of counseling, hormonal therapy etc before surgery is even considered. That said there will always be unethical doctors. Since we are talking about adults making their own decisions in consultation with their doctors and the current established protocols, I don’t see why that should be a problem.

Now jump to genital mutilation….are we talking kids or adults?

With kids, no, of course it should be banned. With the rare exception of certain medical conditions such as ambiguous genitalia or hermaphroditism. But what I think you mean is a disgusting surgery done on women in certain cultures … and should it be banned?

Yes. Of course on children and also for adults. There is zero medical benefit, in fact usually the opposite.

There is actually another genital surgery done however, usually on infants, and that is circumcision…I am not sure how I feel about that.

How are you this woefully uniformed? They are cutting out teenage girls breast buds. They aren’t even waiting for them to get old enough to actually have boobs.

 

[Coyote]

Real quick, if there is a surgery and the parent choses to follow the child’s wishes not to have a blood transfusion should big authoritarian government interfere in personal, private decisions on how to raise their children?

They actually rarely do especially if religion is involved unfortunately…but shouldn’t the decision be dependent on harm and whether the child’s life or health is compromised? Again, gender affirming surgery is not done on minors unless it involves some specific medical conditions like ambiguous genitalia.

 

[Coyote]

More Trans Teens Are Choosing ‘Top Surgery’ (Published 2022)

Small studies suggest that breast removal surgery improves transgender teenagers’ well-being, but data is sparse. Some state leaders oppose such procedures for minors.

www.nytimes.com

Whats that you said? If they aren’t doing these surgeries on children why would anyone care if they are made illegal for children?

First: breasts aren’t genitals. Keep your anatomy straight.

Second: breast surgeries are for a variety of reasons including cosmetic…removing them or adding to them. In my personal, that sort of cosmetic surgery, either augmenting or removing shouldn’t be done on minors without a medical reason (excessively large breasts lead to pain and spinal issues).

What is interesting to me is how it seems people having issues with teens getting “top” surgery have no issue with teens augmenting “the top” piece. I oppose both on minors under 18.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Gender reassignment surgery is done only on adults and there is usually a lengthy process of counseling, hormonal therapy etc before surgery is even considered. That said there will always be unethical doctors. Since we are talking about adults making their own decisions in consultation with their doctors and the current established protocols, I don’t see why that should be a problem.

The age limit is being ratcheted downward:

Gender transition treatment minimum age lowered to 14-years-old

Emotional and cognitive maturity will factor in, as well as parental consent

www.salon.com

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

Unethical and harmful. To NOT amputate breasts at 15, or surgically alter genitals at 17 is unethical and harmful. A lead in to making it mandatory with no parental choice. Once those ages are accepted, young ones will be pushed for. Look who is doing the pushing:

The association provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of its update ahead of publication in a medical journal, expected later this year. The international group promotes evidence-based standards of care and includes more than 3,000 doctors, social scientists and others involved in transgender health issues.

The Jon Stewarts of the world tell us that we must listen to them, they are the experts. No common sense from regular people allowed.

The update is based on expert opinion and a review of scientific evidence on the benefits and harms of transgender medical treatment in teens whose gender identity doesn’t match the sex they were assigned at birth, the group said. Such evidence is limited but has grown in the last decade, the group said, with studies suggesting the treatments can improve psychological well-being and reduce suicidal behavior.

That last is a lie. There may be studies "suggesting" that, but studies who have conclusions and not "suggestions," all say that there is no significant reduction in suicide rates among people who have transgender medical and surgical treatment. It is shockingly high, either way.

That is to be expected from people whose mental health issue is rejection of their own bodies. A much better therapy would be to help them accept their bodies as they are. Dress how you want and call yourself whatever gender you want, but don't chemically and surgically alter your body.

Now jump to genital mutilation….are we talking kids or adults?

Kids, as shown above.

With kids, no, of course it should be banned. With the rare exception of certain medical conditions such as ambiguous genitalia or hermaphroditism.

Glad to hear it, but you have a fight on your hands as you can see.

But what I think you mean is a disgusting surgery done on women in certain cultures … and should it be banned?

Yes. Of course on children and also for adults. There is zero medical benefit, in fact usually the opposite.

I agree. At some point we have to say, even if an adult wants to cut up their own genitals, we have to recognized that this desire stems from a mental illness. I would say the same about men who want to be castrated and have their penises inversted into artificial vaginas for use by other men. But, until the psychological community, minus the profiteers of the transgender industry step up, I have to accept that adults can make that decision.

There is actually another genital surgery done however, usually on infants, and that is circumcision…I am not sure how I feel about that.

I would not ban circumcision for adults, but I would for children. It's a cosmetic procedure many men would choose, I'm guessing. I get that there are religios reasons for doing it to babies, but babies are unable to express a religious belief that leads them to want to have their genitals altered, just like todlers are unable to express that they are a different gender than their biological sex.

 

[Couchpotato]

First: breasts aren’t genitals. Keep your anatomy straight.

Second: breast surgeries are for a variety of reasons including cosmetic…removing them or adding to them. In my personal, that sort of cosmetic surgery, either augmenting or removing shouldn’t be done on minors without a medical reason (excessively large breasts lead to pain and spinal issues).

What is interesting to me is how it seems people having issues with teens getting “top” surgery have no issue with teens augmenting “the top” piece. I oppose both on minors under 18.

New Hampshire teen one of the youngest to have gender reassignment surgery

A high school student in New Hampshire is being called a 'pioneer' after becoming one of the youngest people to undergo gender reassignment surgery. But her long and challenging journey began when she was just a child. At 17 years old, Emily Tressa finally feels fully herself. Last month, she...

cbs6albany.com

Surgical Gender Affirmation Program – Seattle Children’s Hospital

Seattle Children’s Surgical Gender Affirmation Program provides expert care for teens and young adults of all genders in support of their health goals.

www.seattlechildrens.org

Gender Affirming Surgery

The Transgender Center offers gender affirming surgery, also called gender confirmation surgery or sex reassignment surgery. It can include top surgery, bottom surgery and a range of other procedures.

www.stlouischildrens.org

 

[Coyote]

New Hampshire teen one of the youngest to have gender reassignment surgery

A high school student in New Hampshire is being called a 'pioneer' after becoming one of the youngest people to undergo gender reassignment surgery. But her long and challenging journey began when she was just a child. At 17 years old, Emily Tressa finally feels fully herself. Last month, she...

cbs6albany.com

This one appears to be one of the rare cases where it is done. I don’t agree. Wait til 18.

Surgical Gender Affirmation Program – Seattle Children’s Hospital

Seattle Children’s Surgical Gender Affirmation Program provides expert care for teens and young adults of all genders in support of their health goals.

www.seattlechildrens.org

From your source:
For gender-affirming genital procedures, patients must be 18 or older by the time of surgery.

Gender Affirming Surgery

The Transgender Center offers gender affirming surgery, also called gender confirmation surgery or sex reassignment surgery. It can include top surgery, bottom surgery and a range of other procedures.

www.stlouischildrens.org

From your source:
At the Washington University Transgender Center at St. Louis Children’s Hospital, we offer gender affirming surgery to youth 18 years and older.

It is extremely rare.

 

[Couchpotato]

This one appears to be one of the rare cases where it is done. I don’t agree. Wait til 18.



From your source:
For gender-affirming genital procedures, patients must be 18 or older by the time of surgery.



From your source:
At the Washington University Transgender Center at St. Louis Children’s Hospital, we offer gender affirming surgery to youth 18 years and older.

It is extremely rare.

At a childrens hospital. These places are changing their websites because of the public backlash. I ask again if these surgeries aren’t happening why the pushback against banning them?

 

[Coyote]

The age limit is being ratcheted downward:

View attachment 711610

Gender transition treatment minimum age lowered to 14-years-old

Emotional and cognitive maturity will factor in, as well as parental consent

www.salon.com

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

Unethical and harmful. To NOT amputate breasts at 15, or surgically alter genitals at 17 is unethical and harmful. A lead in to making it mandatory with no parental choice. Once those ages are accepted, young ones will be pushed for. Look who is doing the pushing:

The association provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of its update ahead of publication in a medical journal, expected later this year. The international group promotes evidence-based standards of care and includes more than 3,000 doctors, social scientists and others involved in transgender health issues.

The Jon Stewarts of the world tell us that we must listen to them, they are the experts. No common sense from regular people allowed.

Interesting link…have to think about this, but a couple of things come to mind.

The first line under the title:

Emotional and cognitive maturity will factor in, as well as parental consent​

The first two are also used in determine whether a minor can be emancipated.

Second….what is common sense? Common sense once said if you beat the shit out of your kid he would stop being gay.

Third…this kind of strengthens the fact this needs to be between parent, kid and doctor, not politicians on either side.

The update is based on expert opinion and a review of scientific evidence on the benefits and harms of transgender medical treatment in teens whose gender identity doesn’t match the sex they were assigned at birth, the group said. Such evidence is limited but has grown in the last decade, the group said, with studies suggesting the treatments can improve psychological well-being and reduce suicidal behavior.


That last is a lie. There may be studies "suggesting" that, but studies who have conclusions and not "suggestions," all say that there is no significant reduction in suicide rates among people who have transgender medical and surgical treatment. It is shockingly high, either way.

How is it a lie?
It is perfectly honest, it says studies thus far are limited but suggest improved well being. None show worsening. And yes, it is shockingly high…so what do you do?

That is to be expected from people whose mental health issue is rejection of their own bodies. A much better therapy would be to help them accept their bodies as they are. Dress how you want and call yourself whatever gender you want, but don't chemically and surgically alter your body.

Kids, as shown above.

I’m not so sure if it as simple as rejection of one’s body. I think there are two factors here. A group of young people who are experimenting with and undetermined about their own sexual identity (normal at theat age) and a much smaller group who deeply, truly and from a young age believe themselves to be in the wrong body.

The key is to do no or the least harm. My personal view is no surgeries until 18, but other than that,it needs to be up to the family and their doctors, NOT politicians who are more concerned with their own ideas of gender then with child and family.

Glad to hear it, but you have a fight on your hands as you can see.

I agree. At some point we have to say, even if an adult wants to cut up their own genitals, we have to recognized that this desire stems from a mental illness. I would say the same about men who want to be castrated and have their penises inversted into artificial vaginas for use by other men. But, until the psychological community, minus the profiteers of the transgender industry step up, I have to accept that adults can make that decision.

I really don’t buy into the profiteer claim, no matter what those getting surgery are a tiny segment of a tiny segment of the population. You want to profit, traditional cosmetic surgeries are the way.

I would not ban circumcision for adults, but I would for children. It's a cosmetic procedure many men would choose, I'm guessing. I get that there are religios reasons for doing it to babies, but babies are unable to express a religious belief that leads them to want to have their genitals altered, just like todlers are unable to express that they are a different gender than their biological sex.

I honestly have not given a lot of thought on circumcision because it is such a cultural norm.

 

[Coyote]

At a childrens hospital. These places are changing their websites because of the public backlash. I ask again if these surgeries aren’t happening why the pushback against banning them?

Can you provide evidence they are changing their websites? I rather doubt it. Don’t children’s hospitals treat up until 21?

Something doesn’t have to be real for politicians to wave the red cloth and get the base fired up.

 

[Couchpotato]

Can you provide evidence they are changing their websites? I rather doubt it. Don’t children’s hospitals treat up until 21?

Something doesn’t have to be real for politicians to wave the red cloth and get the base fired up.

Why is anyone against banning it though?

 

[Coyote]

Why is anyone against banning it though?

There are situations where is the appropriate treatmen….but who is against it for those under 18?

 

[Couchpotato]

Can you provide evidence they are changing their websites? I rather doubt it. Don’t children’s hospitals treat up until 21?

Something doesn’t have to be real for politicians to wave the red cloth and get the base fired up.

Boston Children’s Hospital changes website, removes text offering genital surgeries to 17-year-olds

Boston Children’s Hospital removed language from their website that said the hospital’s youth gender program offered irreversible, sterilizing genital surgeries for patients as young as 17.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

 

[Couchpotato]

Because there are situations where is the appropriate treatment.

I thought they weren’t happening…

 

[Coyote]

I thought they weren’t happening…

I previously said there are conditions where it is done and appropriate such ambiguous genitalia or hermaphroditism.

 

[Coyote]

Boston Children’s Hospital changes website, removes text offering genital surgeries to 17-year-olds

Boston Children’s Hospital removed language from their website that said the hospital’s youth gender program offered irreversible, sterilizing genital surgeries for patients as young as 17.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

It sounds like Boston is denying what is being claimed and Catholic offers no proof.

 

[Couchpotato]

I previously said there are conditions where it is done and appropriate such ambiguous genitalia or hermaphroditism.

That’s not what they are trying to ban and you know it.

 

[Couchpotato]

It sounds like Boston is denying what is being claimed and Catholic offers no proof.

It was stated on their website. And in videos posted on their website. I guess they could have been lying but that’s a weird thing to lie about

 

[Coyote]

That’s not what they are trying to ban and you know it.

They usually don’t make distinctions.

 

[Coyote]

It was stated on their website. And in videos posted on their website. I guess they could have been lying but that’s a weird thing to lie about

True, well, either way it is 18 now.

 

[Couchpotato]

True, well, either way it is 18 now.

LOL. Maybe that’s why people want to pass a law.