Jew vs. Athiest : Christians Judge

[PostmodernProph]

So it really shouldnt offend christians when us athiests say exactly what a Jew believes.

that YHWH created the heavens and the earth?.....I haven't heard you say that......

So any god will do?

now seriously....do you think anyone will consider that a rational response?......it doesn't even have anything to do with the comment you posted......I asked a question that presented itself obviously from your comment.......the Jews believe that YHWH created the heavens and the earth.......you claim the atheists say exactly what Jews believe....if logic controlled, one would be led to the conclusion that atheists say that YHWH created the heavens and the earth.......so, either that is what you say or you are making an illogical statement.....I am merely attempting to eliminate options when I ask if you are saying that......

Good job being the first christian to answer the question. Ten pages in. Lol

so the answer you were looking for in the OP was that you do not say the same things Jews say?.....odd

 

[sealybobo]

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So it really shouldnt offend christians when us athiests say exactly what a Jew believes.

that YHWH created the heavens and the earth?.....I haven't heard you say that......

So any god will do?

now seriously....do you think anyone will consider that a rational response?......it doesn't even have anything to do with the comment you posted......I asked a question that presented itself obviously from your comment.......the Jews believe that YHWH created the heavens and the earth.......you claim the atheists say exactly what Jews believe....if logic controlled, one would be led to the conclusion that atheists say that YHWH created the heavens and the earth.......so, either that is what you say or you are making an illogical statement.....I am merely attempting to eliminate options when I ask if you are saying that......

I guess that would also apply to all the other Abraham religions too. Muslims and jews may say the whole jesus thing isnt real but in the end you're all praying to the same god. You just all believe you are his chosen ones.

Christians, Jews, Muslims and atheists all have differing beliefs about deities......you don't say the same thing as any of us.....

Sometimes I do

 

[sealybobo]

So it really shouldnt offend christians when us athiests say exactly what a Jew believes.

that YHWH created the heavens and the earth?.....I haven't heard you say that......

So any god will do?

now seriously....do you think anyone will consider that a rational response?......it doesn't even have anything to do with the comment you posted......I asked a question that presented itself obviously from your comment.......the Jews believe that YHWH created the heavens and the earth.......you claim the atheists say exactly what Jews believe....if logic controlled, one would be led to the conclusion that atheists say that YHWH created the heavens and the earth.......so, either that is what you say or you are making an illogical statement.....I am merely attempting to eliminate options when I ask if you are saying that......

Good job being the first christian to answer the question. Ten pages in. Lol

so the answer you were looking for in the OP was that you do not say the same things Jews say?.....odd

No. Why do christians say we will go to hell for not following Jesus but will Jews and Muslims go for not believing?

I see. Any religion or god will do. Just believe whatever you want about him.

 

[BluePhantom]

Sealy....take a look at the quote below. When enmity exists between atheists and theists it usually isn't because of a simple difference in beliefs. It's usually because of a comment such as the one Huggy posted. It's not the difference of opinion Christians have a problem with. It's the vitriol and ferocious nature of the commentary from many atheists that generates such a hostile response. As I said previously....I have never heard a Jew make such statements against Christians (although certainly they may - I have simply never experienced it myself). So....one reaps what they sow

If I had a time machine I would go back 2000 years and kill every single Christian and Jew.

 

[Tuatara]

I suspect its because atheists are irrational.......

If there is one thing athiests definitely ARE, it's rational...thus their belief in the first place

ridiculous....they claim it is wrong to believe something that cannot be proven and then turn around and claim something which cannot be proven....do you consider that rational?.......

Like what. Please clarify.

???.....like, "There are no gods".....

Most atheists claim that they don't believe in gods. Tell me, do you claim that there is no invisible purple elephant living in your dresser drawer?

 

[Meriweather]

Most atheists claim that they don't believe in gods. Tell me, do you claim that there is no invisible purple elephant living in your dresser drawer?

Misdirection is not an efficient way to advance a conversation. It even takes a backseat to atheists who make the mistake and take the tack of people believing in a God who sends plagues and natural disasters to wipe out innocent children.

To hear someone say, "I don't believe in God because I don't believe in the invisible purple elephant living in my dresser drawer," is comparable to hearing "I don't believe in marriage because dinosaurs once walked on the moon."

There are, in fact, good and intelligent reasons for not believing in God. Purple elephants don't happen to fall into the intelligent reasoning category. It's senseless. Try, "I don't believe in God, because I can't make any sense of God."

 

[RandomVariable]

I jumped on the board to create a thread but found this one going already so I will state what I came to state because I believe it also answers the OP's question, not that he is open to answers.

This is my theory as to why there is a Jesus:
God told me to read the OT so I have. He did not tell me to read the NT so I have not, OK, a couple verses here and there. My theory is that God choose Abram, Abraham, and if Abram would keep his covenant he would be his God. This works well for all people who are Jewish. [edit]The issue came when God decided to include more people into his heaven.[/edit] That is where Jesus comes in. You can get to heaven if you are not a Jew but only if you accept Jesus as your Saviour.

And that is why Jews and Christians are on the same page most of the time, the Jews are just a few books ahead.

 

[Tuatara]

Most atheists claim that they don't believe in gods. Tell me, do you claim that there is no invisible purple elephant living in your dresser drawer?

Misdirection is not an efficient way to advance a conversation. It even takes a backseat to atheists who make the mistake and take the tack of people believing in a God who sends plagues and natural disasters to wipe out innocent children.

To hear someone say, "I don't believe in God because I don't believe in the invisible purple elephant living in my dresser drawer," is comparable to hearing "I don't believe in marriage because dinosaurs once walked on the moon."

There are, in fact, good and intelligent reasons for not believing in God. Purple elephants don't happen to fall into the intelligent reasoning category. It's senseless. Try, "I don't believe in God, because I can't make any sense of God."

I am turning Postmodernproph's argument back on him and showing how flawed it is. It's not misdirection or a reason for atheism. Please follow the whole conversation. He also takes a non belief as a belief.

 

[PostmodernProph]

that YHWH created the heavens and the earth?.....I haven't heard you say that......

So any god will do?

now seriously....do you think anyone will consider that a rational response?......it doesn't even have anything to do with the comment you posted......I asked a question that presented itself obviously from your comment.......the Jews believe that YHWH created the heavens and the earth.......you claim the atheists say exactly what Jews believe....if logic controlled, one would be led to the conclusion that atheists say that YHWH created the heavens and the earth.......so, either that is what you say or you are making an illogical statement.....I am merely attempting to eliminate options when I ask if you are saying that......

Good job being the first christian to answer the question. Ten pages in. Lol

so the answer you were looking for in the OP was that you do not say the same things Jews say?.....odd

No. Why do christians say we will go to hell for not following Jesus but will Jews and Muslims go for not believing?

I see. Any religion or god will do. Just believe whatever you want about him.

you, Jews, and Muslims do not believe in Jesus as savior......but you don't say the same things as either the Jews or the Muslims......that's pretty obvious.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

I suspect its because atheists are irrational.......

If there is one thing athiests definitely ARE, it's rational...thus their belief in the first place

ridiculous....they claim it is wrong to believe something that cannot be proven and then turn around and claim something which cannot be proven....do you consider that rational?.......

Like what. Please clarify.

???.....like, "There are no gods".....

Most atheists claim that they don't believe in gods.

all atheists say there are no gods......that is what defines them as atheists.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Most atheists claim that they don't believe in gods. Tell me, do you claim that there is no invisible purple elephant living in your dresser drawer?

Misdirection is not an efficient way to advance a conversation. It even takes a backseat to atheists who make the mistake and take the tack of people believing in a God who sends plagues and natural disasters to wipe out innocent children.

To hear someone say, "I don't believe in God because I don't believe in the invisible purple elephant living in my dresser drawer," is comparable to hearing "I don't believe in marriage because dinosaurs once walked on the moon."

There are, in fact, good and intelligent reasons for not believing in God. Purple elephants don't happen to fall into the intelligent reasoning category. It's senseless. Try, "I don't believe in God, because I can't make any sense of God."

I am turning Postmodernproph's argument back on him and showing how flawed it is. It's not misdirection or a reason for atheism. Please follow the whole conversation. He also takes a non belief as a belief.

that is not my argument, therefore you have not turned it back on me......my response is I do not choose to believe in invisible purple elephants (I won't bother going into the obvious irrational contradiction of postulating something that is simultaneously invisible AND purple).......unlike atheists, I don't pretend my faith choices are based upon logical premises.....they are precisely what they are - faith choices........it is the fact that atheists pretend their faith choices are rational conclusions is what identifies them as irrational......

 

[Hollie]

Most atheists claim that they don't believe in gods. Tell me, do you claim that there is no invisible purple elephant living in your dresser drawer?

Misdirection is not an efficient way to advance a conversation. It even takes a backseat to atheists who make the mistake and take the tack of people believing in a God who sends plagues and natural disasters to wipe out innocent children.

To hear someone say, "I don't believe in God because I don't believe in the invisible purple elephant living in my dresser drawer," is comparable to hearing "I don't believe in marriage because dinosaurs once walked on the moon."

There are, in fact, good and intelligent reasons for not believing in God. Purple elephants don't happen to fall into the intelligent reasoning category. It's senseless. Try, "I don't believe in God, because I can't make any sense of God."

I am turning Postmodernproph's argument back on him and showing how flawed it is. It's not misdirection or a reason for atheism. Please follow the whole conversation. He also takes a non belief as a belief.

that is not my argument, therefore you have not turned it back on me......my response is I do not choose to believe in invisible purple elephants (I won't bother going into the obvious irrational contradiction of postulating something that is simultaneously invisible AND purple).......unlike atheists, I don't pretend my faith choices are based upon logical premises.....they are precisely what they are - faith choices........it is the fact that atheists pretend their faith choices are rational conclusions is what identifies them as irrational......

Rejecting irrational claims/assertions of magic and supernaturalism agents not at all irrational. Belief in a 6,000 year old earth, talking snakes, men rising from the dead, etc., umm yes, very rational.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Most atheists claim that they don't believe in gods. Tell me, do you claim that there is no invisible purple elephant living in your dresser drawer?

Misdirection is not an efficient way to advance a conversation. It even takes a backseat to atheists who make the mistake and take the tack of people believing in a God who sends plagues and natural disasters to wipe out innocent children.

To hear someone say, "I don't believe in God because I don't believe in the invisible purple elephant living in my dresser drawer," is comparable to hearing "I don't believe in marriage because dinosaurs once walked on the moon."

There are, in fact, good and intelligent reasons for not believing in God. Purple elephants don't happen to fall into the intelligent reasoning category. It's senseless. Try, "I don't believe in God, because I can't make any sense of God."

I am turning Postmodernproph's argument back on him and showing how flawed it is. It's not misdirection or a reason for atheism. Please follow the whole conversation. He also takes a non belief as a belief.

that is not my argument, therefore you have not turned it back on me......my response is I do not choose to believe in invisible purple elephants (I won't bother going into the obvious irrational contradiction of postulating something that is simultaneously invisible AND purple).......unlike atheists, I don't pretend my faith choices are based upon logical premises.....they are precisely what they are - faith choices........it is the fact that atheists pretend their faith choices are rational conclusions is what identifies them as irrational......

Rejecting irrational claims/assertions of magic and supernaturalism agents not at all irrational. Belief in a 6,000 year old earth, talking snakes, men rising from the dead, etc., umm yes, very rational.

pretending I believe in a 6000 year old earth is irrational......yet you do it all the time.......

 

[Meriweather]

Rejecting irrational claims/assertions of magic and supernaturalism agents not at all irrational. Belief in a 6,000 year old earth, talking snakes, men rising from the dead, etc., umm yes, very rational.

Here are beliefs of some Americans:

Fluoride in the water makes people communist.
The earth is flat.
There was no moon landing.
There are lizard people.

Is this reason enough for anyone to reject all things American and move somewhere else? None of these are the backbone of America--they are simply what some Americans believe.

Likewise, a six thousand year old earth has nothing to do with the backbone of Christianity--it is merely a belief of some Christians--and some non-Christians for that matter. Nor is the belief in a literal talking snake required. There are several different, and accepted theories on that.

Rejecting any faith, including Christianity, for silly reasons only results in the one rejecting it look silly. They end up being tossed in the silly box where some Christians and Americans are also residing.

 

[sealybobo]

Sealy....take a look at the quote below. When enmity exists between atheists and theists it usually isn't because of a simple difference in beliefs. It's usually because of a comment such as the one Huggy posted. It's not the difference of opinion Christians have a problem with. It's the vitriol and ferocious nature of the commentary from many atheists that generates such a hostile response. As I said previously....I have never heard a Jew make such statements against Christians (although certainly they may - I have simply never experienced it myself). So....one reaps what they sow

If I had a time machine I would go back 2000 years and kill every single Christian and Jew.

Consider in your minds buggy is just ending your suffering her on earth and fast tracking you to heaven. He's doing you a favor. If theists really believed heaven exists they be excited about dying.

Now compare that to the "vitriol" spewed by theists. They tell us when we die their god is going to torture us for all eternity. Now that's sick.

And for 2000 years christians have been horrible. Slaves crusades killing natave americans and invading Iraq just to name a few examples.

 

[sealybobo]

Most atheists claim that they don't believe in gods. Tell me, do you claim that there is no invisible purple elephant living in your dresser drawer?

Misdirection is not an efficient way to advance a conversation. It even takes a backseat to atheists who make the mistake and take the tack of people believing in a God who sends plagues and natural disasters to wipe out innocent children.

To hear someone say, "I don't believe in God because I don't believe in the invisible purple elephant living in my dresser drawer," is comparable to hearing "I don't believe in marriage because dinosaurs once walked on the moon."

There are, in fact, good and intelligent reasons for not believing in God. Purple elephants don't happen to fall into the intelligent reasoning category. It's senseless. Try, "I don't believe in God, because I can't make any sense of God."

I am turning Postmodernproph's argument back on him and showing how flawed it is. It's not misdirection or a reason for atheism. Please follow the whole conversation. He also takes a non belief as a belief.

that is not my argument, therefore you have not turned it back on me......my response is I do not choose to believe in invisible purple elephants (I won't bother going into the obvious irrational contradiction of postulating something that is simultaneously invisible AND purple).......unlike atheists, I don't pretend my faith choices are based upon logical premises.....they are precisely what they are - faith choices........it is the fact that atheists pretend their faith choices are rational conclusions is what identifies them as irrational......

Rejecting irrational claims/assertions of magic and supernaturalism agents not at all irrational. Belief in a 6,000 year old earth, talking snakes, men rising from the dead, etc., umm yes, very rational.

pretending I believe in a 6000 year old earth is irrational......yet you do it all the time.......

Do you deny evolution? Why? What's your theory? Did a god plant 1 seed for every species of fish bird dinosaur mammal reptile plant tree flower?

 

[CMike]

I've never met an unfriendly Jew

Then you never met an ultra conservative or hessidic Jew. Lol

Are you going to seriously address my point that like us athiests your buddies the Jews call bs on the Jesus story but we seem to be fine and dandy with Israel.

And if the Jesus story is so matter of fact why are there any Jews? So dont be so shocked when athiests basically agree with the Jewish position on the Jesus story.

Quite the opposite

 

[BluePhantom]

Sealy....take a look at the quote below. When enmity exists between atheists and theists it usually isn't because of a simple difference in beliefs. It's usually because of a comment such as the one Huggy posted. It's not the difference of opinion Christians have a problem with. It's the vitriol and ferocious nature of the commentary from many atheists that generates such a hostile response. As I said previously....I have never heard a Jew make such statements against Christians (although certainly they may - I have simply never experienced it myself). So....one reaps what they sow

If I had a time machine I would go back 2000 years and kill every single Christian and Jew.

Consider in your minds buggy is just ending your suffering her on earth and fast tracking you to heaven. He's doing you a favor. If theists really believed heaven exists they be excited about dying.

Well 'excited' may be a bit over-stating it. A theist o any kind would argue that we clearly have a purpose for being here or we would not be here. Thus, you should not hasten death. I would say that we should not fear death and when someone dies we should not be sorrowful, we should be very happy for them that they are in heaven.

Now compare that to the "vitriol" spewed by theists. They tell us when we die their god is going to torture us for all eternity. Now that's sick.

And for 2000 years christians have been horrible. Slaves crusades killing natave americans and invading Iraq just to name a few examples.

Being horrible to people isn't exactly a Christian institution. Atheists slaughter too as do pagans and every other manner of mankind that has been around. Trust me, there are thousands of years of absolute death and destruction that befell mankind by mankind that happened before the first Christian ever sniffed Jesus' sandals.

And BTW....I don't believe in hell so at least you are safe with me.

 

[Hollie]

Rejecting irrational claims/assertions of magic and supernaturalism agents not at all irrational. Belief in a 6,000 year old earth, talking snakes, men rising from the dead, etc., umm yes, very rational.

Here are beliefs of some Americans:

Fluoride in the water makes people communist.
The earth is flat.
There was no moon landing.
There are lizard people.

Is this reason enough for anyone to reject all things American and move somewhere else? None of these are the backbone of America--they are simply what some Americans believe.

Likewise, a six thousand year old earth has nothing to do with the backbone of Christianity--it is merely a belief of some Christians--and some non-Christians for that matter. Nor is the belief in a literal talking snake required. There are several different, and accepted theories on that.

Rejecting any faith, including Christianity, for silly reasons only results in the one rejecting it look silly. They end up being tossed in the silly box where some Christians and Americans are also residing.

You're actually making the case that belief in magical/supernatural gawds is just as outrageous and silly as your litany of irrational beliefs.

What you're not addressing is that religious belief carries with it a whole host of threats that have eternal consequences. Religions create a number of genuinely unsolvable dilemmas. The ideology/dogma purports that there is a source material that lays out the belief system. The ideology/dogma claims this source material has a level of functionality that supports that belief system as well. The ideology/dogma further asserts that unless the "author" of that support system (a gawd or gawd(s)) endows one with some special knowledge (knowledge that can’t be shared in a meaningful way), one cannot understand that support system as laid out and supported by the source material.

The ideology/dogma then further complicates matters by suggesting that there are various methods by which one can read and interpret this source material. This resolves to the classic pick & choose doctrine of most religionists. Then the good believer proceeds even further. They will claim that the gawds have a vested interest in human salvation, and through one or more man-made books, that word of salvation is made known, and yet... according to religionists, there are varying degrees by which these man-made books are to be taken as the path to discovery of these man-made gawds delineated in these man-made books.

 

[sealybobo]

Sealy....take a look at the quote below. When enmity exists between atheists and theists it usually isn't because of a simple difference in beliefs. It's usually because of a comment such as the one Huggy posted. It's not the difference of opinion Christians have a problem with. It's the vitriol and ferocious nature of the commentary from many atheists that generates such a hostile response. As I said previously....I have never heard a Jew make such statements against Christians (although certainly they may - I have simply never experienced it myself). So....one reaps what they sow

If I had a time machine I would go back 2000 years and kill every single Christian and Jew.

Consider in your minds buggy is just ending your suffering her on earth and fast tracking you to heaven. He's doing you a favor. If theists really believed heaven exists they be excited about dying.

Well 'excited' may be a bit over-stating it. A theist o any kind would argue that we clearly have a purpose for being here or we would not be here. Thus, you should not hasten death. I would say that we should not fear death and when someone dies we should not be sorrowful, we should be very happy for them that they are in heaven.

Now compare that to the "vitriol" spewed by theists. They tell us when we die their god is going to torture us for all eternity. Now that's sick.

And for 2000 years christians have been horrible. Slaves crusades killing natave americans and invading Iraq just to name a few examples.

Being horrible to people isn't exactly a Christian institution. Atheists slaughter too as do pagans and every other manner of mankind that has been around. Trust me, there are thousands of years of absolute death and destruction that befell mankind by mankind that happened before the first Christian ever sniffed Jesus' sandals.

And BTW....I don't believe in hell so at least you are safe with me.

Cherry picker. Lol.

Yes just like american slave masters used religion to control their slaves so did the Egyptian Pharaohs long before christianity.

The Greeks use to argue for Zeus and the people they caught believed in different gods.

I dont believe any ruler ever killed in the name of no god or for no god but plenty of theists kill for god.

You bring up ancient history that is debatable. How about all the Muslim theists murdering for the same god you worship?