Jesus died for your sins ??

[ding]

If you call a working understanding of 5% of the universe an "overwhelming amount of knowledge" then you have bigger problems than I thought.

Would you want a surgeon to operate on you if they only knew 5% of the procedure?

The fact is we do not have any clue as to what 95% of the stuff that makes up the universe is. So your absolute statements as to how the universe came into being can't be more than 5% correct

Not sure what that has to do with understanding how the universe began. Clearly you have no understanding about dark matter or dark energy. Dark matter and dark energy is a way bigger mystery than how the universe began.

Do you even know why background radiation exists? What caused it? It has absolutely nothing to do with dark matter or dark energy and is the fingerprint left behind of the creation of the universe.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus' father raped Mary and murdered millions in his flood...

The CREATOR is incapable of murder, just as HE is incapable of stealing what in essence totally belongs to HIM.

 

[Clyde 154]

Genesis was written 850 years after the death of Moses and after the Babylonian exile... which is very odd because they did have a written language. Sumer did in 3000 BC.. and the Akkadians who predate the Babylonians did.

Prove that Genesis was written 850 years after the death of Moses. No conjecture, no speculation, no assumptions.......just present the objective facts in evidence that proves that Moses had nothing to do with recording Genesis.

On the other hand there is much "prima facie" evidence found to exist in other parts of the scriptures that demonstrates that the first 5 books of the Bible were recorded by Moses.

Example: In Luke 24:27,44..........Jesus addresses the Law of Moses, Psalms, and the Prophets. In scripture the first 5 books are often called the LAW OF MOSES...or....THE LAW. The other 4 books that make up the Law of Moses are Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Simply because none of the record found in Genesis states that "Moses said".......is no indicator that Moses had nothing to do with Genesis, Moses was not alive during the record of Genesis, He is credited and referenced by the New Testament writers as the one who passed on this ORAL RECORD from peoples who lived before Moses......with Moses acting as the editor and complier of this record as directed by the Holy Spirit of God. The actual record certainly comes from people that lived before Moses.

However there is evidence found in the script of Genesis that indicates that Moses indeed was the inspired "editor" of Genesis. Throughout the Book of Genesis you find the Hebrew word "toledoth" being recorded with regularity. The word toledoth is translated to mean "These are the records of or this is the history of........." These are signature lines of various authors found in the Book of Genesis. As stated this is an oral history that Moses simply edited to script as inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Example Genesis 2:4 The records of heaven and earth....this is God's history of creation. or "TOLEDOTH"

Genesis 5:1 The TOLEDOTH of ADAM

Genesis 6:1 The TOLEDOTH of NOAH

Genesis 10:1 The TOLEDOTH'S of SHEM, HAM and JAPHETH

Genesis 11:10 The TOLEDOTH of SHEM

Genesis 11:27........Terah.........Genesis 25:12..........ISHMAEL..........Genesis 25:19......ISAAC........Genesis 36:1,9........ESAU........Genesis 37:2............etc., then begins the TOLEDOTH of EXODUS 1:1 .....the history of the children of Israel.

Again........present the objective, testable, reproducible evidence that proves anything predated God's history of Creation as found in Genesis. Its a most difficult thing to prove that something predated the Beginning.....since recorded History can calibrate things of the past 5000 years. Anything you present would by necessity of fact have to be based upon Conjecture, Speculation and Biased ASSSUMPTION....i.e., PHILOSOPHY (Opinionated Guess work). Anything before the 4th millennium would also have to be an ORAL HISTORY.....as mankind did not develop a written language before that time period in history.

Recorded history - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As demonstrated.........the scientific term for this historical GUESS WORK is called Epistemology......but guess work is still guess work. EPISTEMOLOGY: The "philosophical" ......"theory" of KNOWLEDGE.

Who do I personally choose to accept as documented truth.........The Holy Scriptures or your EPISTEMOLOGICAL GUESSWORK? I choose door number 1. The inspired words of the Holy Spirit of God. ".....but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." -- Joshua 14:15

 

[surada]

Prove that Genesis was written 850 years after the death of Moses. No conjecture, no speculation, no assumptions.......just present the objective facts in evidence that proves that Moses had nothing to do with recording Genesis.

On the other hand there is much "prima facie" evidence found to exist in other parts of the scriptures that demonstrates that the first 5 books of the Bible were recorded by Moses.

Example: In Luke 24:27,44..........Jesus addresses the Law of Moses, Psalms, and the Prophets. In scripture the first 5 books are often called the LAW OF MOSES. The other 4 books that make up the Law of Moses are Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Simply because none of the record found in Genesis states that "Moses said".......is no indicator that Moses had nothing to do with Genesis, Moses was not alive during the record of Genesis, He is credited and referenced by the New Testament writers as the one who passed on this ORAL RECORD from peoples who lived before Moses......with Moses acting as the editor and complier of this record as directed by the Holy Spirit of God. The actual record certainly comes from people that lived before Moses.

However there is evidence found in the script of Genesis that indicates that Moses indeed was the inspired "editor" of Genesis. Throughout the Book of Genesis you find the Hebrew word "toledoth" being recorded with regularity. The word toledoth is translated to mean "These are the records of or this is the history of........." These are signature lines of various o authors found in the Book of Genesis. As stated this is an oral history that Moses simply edited to script as inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Example Genesis 2:4 The records of heaven and earth....this is God's history of creation. or "TOLEDOTH"

Genesis 5:1 The TOLEDOTH of ADAM

Genesis 6:1 The TOLEDOTH of NOAH

Genesis 10:1 The TOLEDOTH'S of SHEM, HAM and JAPHETH

Genesis 11:10 The TOLEDOTH of SHEM

Genesis 11:27........Terah.........Genesis 25:12..........ISHMAEL..........Genesis 25:19......ISAAC........Genesis 36:1,9........ESAU........Genesis 37:2............etc., then begins the TOLEDOTH of EXODUS 1:1 .....the history of the children of Israel.

There are no scholars who claim Moses wrote the Pentateuch.. Those books had may authors... and they borrowed the myths and legends of the civilizations around them..

Genesis and Exodus were written after the Babylonian Exile.. Leviticus was written during the exile. The Babylonians had a rich foundational narrative and they had a profound effect on the Good Figs who were
exiled.

















Sumer, Canaan and Egypt.

 

[BreezeWood]

The CREATOR is incapable of murder, just as HE is incapable of stealing what in essence totally belongs to HIM.

.
they are incapable to violate another's spiritual endowment - putting it to sleep is another story. call it whatever you like.

 

[ding]

There are no scholars who claim Moses wrote the Pentateuch.. Those books had may authors... and they borrowed the myths and legends of the civilizations around them..

Genesis and Exodus were written after the Babylonian Exile.. Leviticus was written during the exile. The Babylonians had a rich foundational narrative and they had a profound effect on the Good Figs who were
exiled.

















Sumer, Canaan and Egypt.

No. From oral accounts that had been passed down from generation to generation for thousands of years before being recorded in writing. You are describing a conspiracy; a forgery. This was the heritage and history of their people that they passed down.

 

[surada]

No. From oral accounts that had been passed down from generation to generation. You are describing a conspiracy; a forgery. This was their heritage and history of their people that they passed down.

Its not a forgery.. Its morality tales and teaching narratives. It was never intended as history.

The Jews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites. Abraham was from Urfa near Haran.. Between the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Ugarit tablets, the translations of Samuel Noah Kramer and the Nag Hammadi they know alot more now than they did when I was a kid.

 

[buttercup]

Gee a couple less privileges in an eternal paradise doesn't sound like much of a difference to me

I think maybe the problem here is that you're assuming a murderer or some other horrible person is going to enter heaven as they were, as an evil person. In other words, you seem to be assuming that all they have to do is say a few words and they get to go to heaven as they are. But that's not the case.

As I was saying the other day to Merriweather, spiritual birth is something that happens when true salvation occurs. When someone is born spiritually, it's not a religious thing or just some words, it is a very real change that takes place inside of someone, it's new life, you literally become a new creation… born of God, with a brand new spirit and heart. So you're not the same person you were before.

Here's a quick excerpt on spiritual birth from gotquestions.org:

Jesus used an earthly metaphor to explain a spiritual idea. When a baby is born, a new life emerges that did not previously exist. The baby is a brand-new being who begins to grow to look like the parents. A puppy grows up to look like a dog. A calf grows to look like a cow. An infant grows to look like an adult human. So it is with those born of God. Second Corinthians 5:17 says that, if anyone is in Christ, he is a “new creature.”​

And in case you still think anyone can just say a few magic words, no, the thing is you can't fool God. God knows our hearts. A murderer who has the wrong motives can't just say a little prayer and go to heaven. It is by Gods' grace, and as I mentioned in a previous post, a true saving faith involves surrendering to God, understanding one's spiritual condition (that one's a sinner) genuine repentance and believing that Jesus is who He claimed to be and putting one's faith and trust in Jesus.

 

[Blues Man]

Not sure what that has to do with understanding how the universe began. Clearly you have no understanding about dark matter or dark energy. Dark matter and dark energy is a way bigger mystery than how the universe began.

Do you even know why background radiation exists? What caused it? It has absolutely nothing to do with dark matter or dark energy and is the fingerprint left behind of the creation of the universe.

It has everything to do with it.

For all we know something we don't understand is responsible for what we observe.

We don't know enough about the universe to state with any certainty what happened just before the universe expanded into being therefore we cannot say with any certainty how the universe began

 

[Blues Man]

I think maybe the problem here is that you're assuming a murderer or some other horrible person is going to enter heaven as they were, as an evil person. In other words, you seem to be assuming that all they have to do is say a few words and they get to go to heaven as they are. But that's not the case.

As I was saying the other day to Merriweather, spiritual birth is something that happens when true salvation occurs. When someone is born spiritually, it's not a religious thing or just some words, it is a very real change that takes place inside of someone, it's new life, you literally become a new creation… born of God, with a brand new spirit and heart. So you're not the same person you were before.

Here's a quick excerpt on spiritual birth from gotquestions.org:

Jesus used an earthly metaphor to explain a spiritual idea. When a baby is born, a new life emerges that did not previously exist. The baby is a brand-new being who begins to grow to look like the parents. A puppy grows up to look like a dog. A calf grows to look like a cow. An infant grows to look like an adult human. So it is with those born of God. Second Corinthians 5:17 says that, if anyone is in Christ, he is a “new creature.”​

And in case you still think anyone can just say a few magic words, no, the thing is you can't fool God. God knows our hearts. A murderer who has the wrong motives can't just say a little prayer and go to heaven. It is by Gods' grace, and as I mentioned in a previous post, a true saving faith involves surrendering to God, understanding one's spiritual condition (that one's a sinner) genuine repentance and believing that Jesus is who He claimed to be and putting one's faith and trust in Jesus.

So you say.

Personally I don't think a god, if one exists, cares about each and every person.

 

[ding]

Its not a forgery.. Its morality tales and teaching narratives. It was never intended as history.

The Jews emerged from the North Coast Canaanites. Abraham was from Urfa near Haran.. Between the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Ugarit tablets, the translations of Samuel Noah Kramer and the Nag Hammadi they know alot more now than they did when I was a kid.

I believe the accounts contain elements of history.

 

[Blues Man]

I believe the accounts contain elements of history.

Like all Fairy tales

 

[JoeBlow]

The CREATOR is incapable of murder, just as HE is incapable of stealing what in essence totally belongs to HIM.

So I can kill my kids?

 

[Meriweather]

Like all Fairy tales

And like all biographies, so your point is? It is what is unique about each genre that distinguishes and separates them from one another.

 

[Meriweather]

So I can kill my kids?

I suppose you can, but you may not without stiff consequences.

 

[JoeBlow]

I suppose you can, but you may not without stiff consequences.

So god doesn't play by the same rules? Geez, I've got to get myself a cult also.

 

[ding]

It has everything to do with it.

For all we know something we don't understand is responsible for what we observe.

We don't know enough about the universe to state with any certainty what happened just before the universe expanded into being therefore we cannot say with any certainty how the universe began

No. It doesn't. What is responsible for the massive background radiation that we observe? Do you even know?

 

[ding]

So god doesn't play by the same rules? Geez, I've got to get myself a cult also.

That's a good one, Taz.

 

[ding]

Like all Fairy tales

It's because you see them as fairy tales instead of allegorical accounts of history that leads you to skewing everything to fairy tales and prevents you from finding the intent of the authors.

 

[Clyde 154]

There are no scholars who claim Moses wrote the Pentateuch.. Those books had may authors... and they borrowed the myths and legends of the civilizations around them..

Genesis and Exodus were written after the Babylonian Exile.. Leviticus was written during the exile. The Babylonians had a rich foundational narrative and they had a profound effect on the Good Figs who were
exiled.

















Sumer, Canaan and Egypt.

More subjective BS presented as evidence...........As demonstrated, the Holy Scriptures themselves demonstrate that Moses is credited with the 1st 5 books called "THE LAW".....the "OLD LAW"......"THE COVENANT OF MOSES"...etc., as the New Testament authors directly quote from these books and call them THE LAW OF MOSES.......especially JESUS.

And what part of editing do you fail to comprehend? ..........as presented there are many sources found in the Book of Genesis, Moses simply edited the oral history and recorded it as directed by the Holy Spirit of God. Or do you also deny Moses being in the presence of God on Mt. Sinai as recorded in Ex. 19?

I presented the actual text of the scriptures and demonstrated the record found in Genesis is presented as a HISTORY by Moses....the history of creation, the history of Adam, the History of Noah etc., and how each history is separated from the other text by the opening credit, "This is the History of........." A HEBREW WORD TOLEDOTH.

There is a scriptural term for individuals such as yourself...............ANTICHRIST. If you cannot accept Christ's record as truth then you are against Christ. The Christ demonstrated that He believed the LAW was a record from MOSES.

There are many antichrist doctrines in the world as the scriptures declare there is nothing new under the sun.