Zone1 Jesus Christ: The MYTH

[ding]

Saying so doesn't make it true.

That's why the facts were presented. here and here. I win again

 

[ding]

What are you waiting for, dingy? Have I thrashed you so badly already that you've got the heeby-jeebies?

Because good Muslims fly planes into buildings? Seems like more of a statement of fact.

 

[GLASNOST]

More indicatons that the story of Jesus may be A MYTH:

 

[ding]

More indicatons that the story of Jesus may be A MYTH:

Google AI disagrees.

Yes, the overwhelming consensus among historians and biblical scholars is that Jesus of Nazareth was a real, historical person who lived in 1st-century Judea. While specific, non-biblical archaeological evidence from his lifetime is non-existent, multiple independent sources, including Roman historians Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, and Suetonius, confirm his existence and execution.

Key Evidence for the Historical Jesus:

• Paul the Apostle: Paul's letters, written mere decades after the crucifixion, mention knowing Jesus’s brother, James, and his disciple, Peter.
• Roman/Jewish Sources:Tacitus, Josephus, and the Talmud refer to Jesus as a leader of a movement who was executed
  .
  • Scholarly Consensus: The "mythicist" theory, which argues Jesus was entirely fabricated, is not accepted by mainstream scholars.
    

 

[ding]

#winning

 

[ding]

I neither believe nor disbelieve in the existence of God but I have always assumed (rather strongly) that Jesus Christ existed as a mere prophet. I accepted that everything else about him is hog-wash. But now I am not so sure he existed at all.

WARNING: Theists proceed at your own risk

Here's what google AI has to say about your video.

Arguments that Jesus was not a historical person, often known as the Christ Myth Theory, exist but are considered fringe by the vast majority of historians and scholars. These arguments argue that Jesus is a mythological figure rather than a real person. Key arguments include:
Wikipedia +3

• Lack of Contemporary Evidence: There are no known surviving writings, archaeological artifacts, or independent, non-Christian accounts of Jesus from the first century while he was alive.
• Reliance on Late/Theological Sources: The primary accounts of Jesus, the Gospels, were written decades after his death by individuals who were not eyewitnesses, contain contradictions, and are heavily focused on theological rather than historical accounts.
• Mythical/Pagan Parallels: Some proponents argue that the story of Jesus was constructed from existing myths, including parallels with dying-and-rising gods in other, earlier ancient religions.
• Silence of Early Christian Authors: Certain early Christian writings, such as the earliest Pauline Epistles, often discuss a spiritual "Christ" rather than a flesh-and-blood historical figure.
  American Atheists +5

Note on Consensus: While these arguments are debated, most mainstream, secular, and religious scholars of antiquity agree that a historical person named Jesus of Nazareth did exist, citing sources like Tacitus and Josephus, although they often reject the supernatural claims made about him.

 

[Alter2Ego]

I neither believe nor disbelieve in the existence of God but I have always assumed (rather strongly) that Jesus Christ existed as a mere prophet. I accepted that everything else about him is hog-wash. But now I am not so sure he existed at all.

WARNING: Theists proceed at your own risk

GLASNOST:

Jesus' existence as a historical person has been confirmed by credible individuals, including the Roman historian Tacitus. Keep in mind that Tacitus hated Christians.

 

[GLASNOST]

Jesus' existence as a historical person has been confirmed by credible individuals, including the Roman historian Tacitus.

The evidece provided in the video show this is not true.

Keep in mind that Tacitus hated Christians.

I don't see that as being worth mentioning. What is the purpose of you saying that?

 

[GLASNOST]

Here's what google AI has to say.

Well sweet cakes, Google is a funded entity that censors its content. AI is completely unreliable and if you’ve been using it you know exactly what I mean. And where is your thread about flying planes into buildings? Cat got your tongue?

 

[GLASNOST]

#winning

This is a thread about Jesus Christ and if he existed, so what is it you think you are "winning", sweet cakes? You must have a severe inferiority complex. Were you picked on all through high school because you never needed a bra?

 

[ding]

Well sweet cakes, Google is a funded entity that censors its content. AI is completely unreliable and if you’ve been using it you know exactly what I mean. And where is your thread about flying planes into buildings? Cat got your tongue?

The risen Christ appeared to a variety of individuals and groups, with accounts in the Bible describing appearances to at least eight different groups of people over a 40-day period. While the Bible details specific instances, it does not explicitly state that these were the only appearances.

In all Jesus appeared a dozen different times over forty days to more than 515 individuals. He appeared to women and to men, He appeared to individuals and to groups, He appeared indoors and outdoors, He appeared to people who were skeptics and people who were believers, He appeared to people who were hardhearted and people who were tenderhearted. And He talked with people, He ate with people, He even invited Thomas - the skeptic, the doubter - to put his finger in the nail holes in His hands, put his hand in the spear wound in His side - to see and touch the evidence himself. Then what was Thomas's reaction? To say, "My Lord and my God!" He became convinced by the evidence that Jesus had returned from the dead. And what does history tell us about Thomas? He spent the rest of his life declaring Jesus did return from the dead, He is the Son of God, even to the point of being put to death for his faith in southern India.

 

[ding]

This is a thread about Jesus Christ and if he existed, so what is it you think you are "winning", sweet cakes? You must have a severe inferiority complex. Were you picked on all through high school because you never needed a bra?

Here's a breakdown of some of the groups Jesus appeared to:

• Mary Magdalene: She was the first person to see the resurrected Jesus.
• Other women at the tomb: Other women who had come to the tomb also witnessed the risen Christ.
• Two disciples on the road to Emmaus: Jesus walked and talked with them, revealing himself later.
• The eleven apostles: They saw Jesus in the upper room and later on a mountain in Galilee.
• More than 500 brethren: One scripture passage mentions Jesus appearing to over 500 people at once.
• James, the brother of Jesus: This was a special appearance to his half-brother, who was initially a skeptic.
• Seven disciples on the Sea of Galilee: Jesus appeared to them while they were fishing.
• Apostle Paul: Paul himself claims to have seen the risen Christ.

 

[JoeB131]

You may also want to review what Grok AI has surmised.

Artificial Intelligence to prove an artificial God?

 

[ding]

Artificial Intelligence to prove an artificial God?

1. The universe popping into existence in an unnatural way.
2. The only possible configuration of matter - in an infinite number of possible configurations - that can produce a universe capable of producing intelligence.
3. Living matter forming from inanimate matter.
4. Intelligence being predestined to arise according to the laws of nature after life was formed from inanimate matter.
5. Jesus Christ

 

[ShahdagMountains]

If Jesus was a Jew, why are there Catholics?

 

[JoeB131]

Non-Christian historians like Pliny the Younger (c. 112 AD) and Tacitus (c. 116 AD) recorded that early Christians worshiped Jesus as a god, confirming that by the late 1st/early 2nd century, followers viewed him divinely, with Pliny noting hymns sung "to Christ, as to a god" and Tacitus mentioning "Christus" as the founder executed by Pilate, corroborating early Christian beliefs from outside sources.

First, both of these guys are writing nearly a century after the facts.

There's substantial evidence that the passage about Jesus in Tacitus was a later interpolation by Christian Scribes.


The Pliny passage is more interesting because he asks the Emperor Trajan what he should do with Christians caught in his province. Now, keep in mind, this was supposedly the whacky cult that burned down Rome during Nero's reign.

But Trajan answers back, if they aren't causing trouble, leave them alone.

That would seem to indicate that the earlier accounts are probably obscure, and this wasn't a very prominent cult by the Second Century.

Flavius Josephus did not explicitly record that Jesus was worshiped as God in a manner a Christian would use, but his writings do mention that Christians worshipped him as divine or as the Christ.

There are two passages about Jesus in Josephus, one of which is most certainly a forgery. But again, Josephus is writing AFTER the fact.

What you don't have is first hand witness accounts. The Gospels are all second-hand accounts, and Paul was a later convert.

What we don't have are first hand accounts by people who knew Jesus personally.

On top of that, there are inconsistencies within the Gospels themselves. Even though both Matthew and Luke heavily crib from Mark, they contradict each other about the year Jesus was born. (By about a 10-year gap)

Conversely, we really don't know what year Jesus was crucified, only that it happened sometime during the governorship of Pontius Pilate. Which means anywhere between 26 CE and 36 CE.

Now, here's where it gets tricky. Pilate's character in the Bible contradicts nearly everything we know about the guy from other sources. In the Bible, he's trying very hard not to crucify Jesus. This contradicts the historical account that shows he was a pretty tone-deaf governor, eventually being recalled by Tiberius for having the place nearly in revolt because of his policies.

Seriously, when you are so ruthless that Tiberius had to say, "Hey, man, that's a bit much", that says a lot.

(It does make sense in the context that the Gospels were written when the Christians were a separate sect from the Jews, and were trying to appeal to a Roman audience while demonizing the Jews)

 

[JoeB131]

Cool opinion. Doesn’t change my claim. If you discount the Bible then you basically can’t take any of history seriously by the same standards.

Except that the history can be substantiated by multiple sources and doesn't contain fantastical accounts like Talking Snakes and Giants.

Let's take another "JC" who lived a little earlier than Jesus. Julius Caesar.

We know what day he was born - 12 July 100 BCE (the month was renamed for him)
We know what day he died - 15 March 44 BCE
We have his own writings that have been passed down to us to this day.
We have contemporary accounts by people who lived at the same time he did.
We have monuments he built, coins struck with his image on them, and statues made of him.
We can see the direct effect of his rule (The rise of the Julio-Claudian dynasty that would rule Rome for the following 100 years.)
The histories written about him are amazingly consistent.

For Jesus, we have none of that.

 

[JoeB131]

That's why the facts were presented. here and here. I win again

Arguing with Ding.

 

[JoeB131]

1. The universe popping into existence in an unnatural way.
2. The only possible configuration of matter - in an infinite number of possible configurations - that can produce a universe capable of producing intelligence.
3. Living matter forming from inanimate matter.
4. Intelligence being predestined to arise according to the laws of nature after life was formed from inanimate matter.
5. Jesus Christ

the first four are scientifically explainable.

Jesus is a myth.

 

[SweetSue92]

Of course you can

There are many other records available
Many of which don’t support biblical claims

This is actually ignorant