Jesus and guns

[necritan]

Good points, Care. That's what I was taught as well.

You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

IIRC, that is one of the passages the Amish base their pacifism on.

What kind of anti-gun....anti-self defense...anti-self respecting ***** church did you go to anyways..???

 

[Valerie]

Tyranny is oppressive power brought on by ones government.......Rome was not Israel's government. Israel had their own government at the time.....and it was argueably....tyranical.


So.....When the people of Israel cried out to the Lord..and to Samuel for a "King"....is it no suprise that the Lord was miffed....and thereby "Cursed" them with a King...??? It was quite clear in the old Testament atleast that the "Lord" appreciated self-rule....and was appauled by the idea of Human Rule.

So....do you think it is Christ's wish that we be dominated by man???? And..if not...in this day and age...how does one remain free without the ability to defend ones freedoms..???

the Romans GOVERNED Palestine and Jerusalem....it was tyranny for the Jews...

if the Romans did not govern them and collected taxes from them, there would have been no need for the high priest to turn Jesus over to Pontius Pilot if the Jews solely governed themselves...so you are wrong....yes the Romans let them practice their religious hierarchy...but the Roman brought Solomon's temple to the ground, not one stone left unturned.,,just a few decades after His death...

Those jews, trying to incite a revolution or insurrection against the Roman governing rule were CONTINUALLY SHOT DOWN by Christ for this...

and one does not always remain free as a Christian....none of the apostles fought with their sword once they were sent out to preach the Gospel, NONE! They were all held captive and then martyred.... I am certain the apostles would have fought by the sword to stay ''free'' as you state, IF THIS IS WHAT CHRIST ACTUALLY TAUGHT....but guess what? THAT'S not what he told them to do and not what he taught.

care

They turned it over to Pilate because they were pushing for execution....which was something they were forbidden from performing on their own.

Yes....they were governed by the Romans...as were many nations at the time....but it was not their government.....so therefore not a tyranny in the true sense of the word. King Herod was there douche bag king.

Also...from your assertions...I can only surmise that you believe Christ would be against any form of Military whatsoever as well.....right..????

And where in Christ's teachings does it say NOT to defend yourself against oppression or strive for freedom..????

Just because it isnt mentioned doesnt make it something he did not believe. Christ didnt mention useage of the internet either....yet we seem to all agree its probably ok.


Read about Gideon in the Bible.........

You must have missed where Care clearly states she did not think Jesus would be upset for us having guns to protect ourselves:

i do not think Jesus would be upset with us for having guns to hunt with or protect ourselves....

I don't think He would be against defending oneself with arms vs the Word of God, but know what your outcome could be....

And Ravi clearly stated she has no problem with people owning guns:

I'll admit, I've no problem with people owning guns. In fact I think that the slim chance we could rise up against a bad government justifies it easily.

 

[Ravi]

Good points, Care. That's what I was taught as well.

You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

IIRC, that is one of the passages the Amish base their pacifism on.

What kind of anti-gun....anti-self defense...anti-self respecting ***** church did you go to anyways..???

another asshole that hates women, what a ******* surprise

 

[Valerie]

Did you read the rest of my posts or just that one? I'd rather not repeat myself.

>>>

Jesus did NOT defend himself from being killed, but the lesson was supposed to be his sacrifice for the rest of us who are only human and will need to be forgiven for our sins including defending ourselves if we need to.

You'd rather not repeat yourself, but thanks for doing it anyway.

Your position is that guns are okay as long as they are not used to kill, from the viewpoint of Jesus?

You're welcome. My position, in answering your OP question, is that Christians can reconcile owning a gun because owning a gun does not mean intending to kill, but intending not be killed and this is merely a matter of free will and the spirit of human protection and survival.

Ideally the gun prevents any crime or death, but IF you ever did fight to the death in any manner, including with a gun or sword, it does not come naturally to be meek in the face of death and so if there is a God, it is ultimately up to God to forgive that sin, thou shall not kill, like any other human sin based on the nature of the act and the personal contrition of the individual.

 

[necritan]

Good points, Care. That's what I was taught as well.

IIRC, that is one of the passages the Amish base their pacifism on.

What kind of anti-gun....anti-self defense...anti-self respecting ***** church did you go to anyways..???

another asshole that hates women, what a ******* surprise

What part of all that sounded remotely mysogynistic...??? Of all people...I would think a woman would be all for gun rights. Not you though huh..??? Your a tool for the left....believing your own party's bullshit...thinking they are actually looking out for you. A real women is ready and willing to deal out an ass whooping to protect herself and her family.....but the left wouldn't want that now would they...???

Thanks for the neg rep too.....I feel honored to have gotten under your cold dead skin.

 

[necritan]

the Romans GOVERNED Palestine and Jerusalem....it was tyranny for the Jews...

if the Romans did not govern them and collected taxes from them, there would have been no need for the high priest to turn Jesus over to Pontius Pilot if the Jews solely governed themselves...so you are wrong....yes the Romans let them practice their religious hierarchy...but the Roman brought Solomon's temple to the ground, not one stone left unturned.,,just a few decades after His death...

Those jews, trying to incite a revolution or insurrection against the Roman governing rule were CONTINUALLY SHOT DOWN by Christ for this...

and one does not always remain free as a Christian....none of the apostles fought with their sword once they were sent out to preach the Gospel, NONE! They were all held captive and then martyred.... I am certain the apostles would have fought by the sword to stay ''free'' as you state, IF THIS IS WHAT CHRIST ACTUALLY TAUGHT....but guess what? THAT'S not what he told them to do and not what he taught.

care

They turned it over to Pilate because they were pushing for execution....which was something they were forbidden from performing on their own.

Yes....they were governed by the Romans...as were many nations at the time....but it was not their government.....so therefore not a tyranny in the true sense of the word. King Herod was there douche bag king.

Also...from your assertions...I can only surmise that you believe Christ would be against any form of Military whatsoever as well.....right..????

And where in Christ's teachings does it say NOT to defend yourself against oppression or strive for freedom..????

Just because it isnt mentioned doesnt make it something he did not believe. Christ didnt mention useage of the internet either....yet we seem to all agree its probably ok.


Read about Gideon in the Bible.........

You must have missed where Care clearly states she did not think Jesus would be upset for us having guns to protect ourselves:

i do not think Jesus would be upset with us for having guns to hunt with or protect ourselves....

I don't think He would be against defending oneself with arms vs the Word of God, but know what your outcome could be....

And Ravi clearly stated she has no problem with people owning guns:

I'll admit, I've no problem with people owning guns. In fact I think that the slim chance we could rise up against a bad government justifies it easily.

Sorry....but they have both clearly shown in the past a big ole "But" with any respect to gunrights. Why else would someone start a "What does Jesus think about guns..?" thread...???

 

[Valerie]

They turned it over to Pilate because they were pushing for execution....which was something they were forbidden from performing on their own.

Yes....they were governed by the Romans...as were many nations at the time....but it was not their government.....so therefore not a tyranny in the true sense of the word. King Herod was there douche bag king.

Also...from your assertions...I can only surmise that you believe Christ would be against any form of Military whatsoever as well.....right..????

And where in Christ's teachings does it say NOT to defend yourself against oppression or strive for freedom..????

Just because it isnt mentioned doesnt make it something he did not believe. Christ didnt mention useage of the internet either....yet we seem to all agree its probably ok.


Read about Gideon in the Bible.........

You must have missed where Care clearly states she did not think Jesus would be upset for us having guns to protect ourselves:










And Ravi clearly stated she has no problem with people owning guns:

I'll admit, I've no problem with people owning guns. In fact I think that the slim chance we could rise up against a bad government justifies it easily.

Sorry....but they have both clearly shown in the past a big ole "But" with any respect to gunrights. Why else would someone start a "What does Jesus think about guns..?" thread...???

I don't know...? Maybe to reconcile their own views?

I'll admit, I've no problem with people owning guns. In fact I think that the slim chance we could rise up against a bad government justifies it easily.

But I often wonder, how do Christians reconcile their belief in people owning guns with the teachings of Jesus?

 

[manifold]

For the record, pacifist cults like the Amish are only able to exist because of their not-so-pacifist brethren keeping the wolves at bay. Holding them out as some sort of example is as laughable as pacifist doctrine itself.

 

[necritan]

Maybe....just maybe Im way off base and this is just a full on attack on Christianity.....and not so much an attack on the 2A. But.......I feel as if it is both....cuzz usually....the attack on both comes from the same place.


I am amazed especially with some people....mostly women....when it comes to gun rights. I can think of no other person in the world that has more to lose. I can think of no other gender that could use the 2A more. To protect their children...themself...their loved ones. I picture the perfect women to be a tigeress......beautifull...but with claws. Ready to ******* slay anything she pleases if the need arises.....if her cubs...if her family....if she is threatened. I dont see this with the anti's that claim to be empowering women. I see the left stripping women of their ability to defend.......and it is sad. A womens power is great....and their senses are keen. Why havent the women of the left realized they have been misguided.

Jesus would have had a Glock 19.......and he wants you to have one too.

 

[betchamad]

Matt 26:51-52 "And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." Gun doesn't kill people but man who holding the gun did.So,Jesus know st.peter always keeping the sword,He haven't criticism peter,but when peter use it in the wrong way - killing those guards,then Jesus tell him that is wrong.Gun juse a tool,the real problem is how we use it.If we use it to defend the family,or against the pagan,then it is good.But if we use it to hurting the innocents or seeking own benefit,then it is wrong.

 

[eagleseven]

Maybe....just maybe Im way off base and this is just a full on attack on Christianity.....and not so much an attack on the 2A. But.......I feel as if it is both....cuzz usually....the attack on both comes from the same place.


I am amazed especially with some people....mostly women....when it comes to gun rights. I can think of no other person in the world that has more to lose. I can think of no other gender that could use the 2A more. To protect their children...themself...their loved ones. I picture the perfect women to be a tigeress......beautifull...but with claws. Ready to ******* slay anything she pleases if the need arises.....if her cubs...if her family....if she is threatened. I dont see this with the anti's that claim to be empowering women. I see the left stripping women of their ability to defend.......and it is sad. A womens power is great....and their senses are keen. Why havent the women of the left realized they have been misguided.

Spot on. What sort of man wouldn't ensure that the mother of his children, his wife, isn't protected by every means available? It baffles me...

...then again, maybe I was raised right by my father and grandfather.

 

[Ravi]

For the record, pacifist cults like the Amish are only able to exist because of their not-so-pacifist brethren keeping the wolves at bay. Holding them out as some sort of example is as laughable as pacifist doctrine itself.

For the record, you were wrong. You used to be able to admit that.

 

[DiveCon]

For the record, pacifist cults like the Amish are only able to exist because of their not-so-pacifist brethren keeping the wolves at bay. Holding them out as some sort of example is as laughable as pacifist doctrine itself.

spot on


ravi shows again how little she really knows


and

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

i owe ya some

 

[Ravi]

This is what he was wrong about.

manifoist: Clearly not one single brand of Christianity fully embraces Jesus' teachings about turning the other cheek. Not one.

I'm sure he looks forward to your next ass kiss.

 

[DiveCon]

This is what he was wrong about.

manifoist: Clearly not one single brand of Christianity fully embraces Jesus' teachings about turning the other cheek. Not one.

I'm sure he looks forward to your next ass kiss.

yeah, because he and i agree on so MANY things

 

[manifold]

Apparently some people are really really slow.

People simply do not abide by Jesus' teachings regarding self defense. And by "people" I mean almost everyone. So again I state the obvious: Why then should anyone care what Jesus has to say about particular methods of self defense?

 

[Ravi]

People don't abide by many of Jesus' teachings. Why then should anyone care what Jesus thinks about anything?

 

[Valerie]

People don't abide by many of Jesus' teachings....?

Christianity: 2.1 billion

World Christian Encyclopedia stated there were 2.1 billion Christians in the world, or 33% of the total population. Regardless of the degree of accuracy of this figure, Christianity, if taken as a whole, is unarguably the largest world religion - the largest religion in the world. (Keep in mind that although Christianity is the world's largest religion, it is an umbrella term that comprises many different branches and denominations.)

Major Religions Ranked by Size

 

[Care4all]

People don't abide by many of Jesus' teachings. Why then should anyone care what Jesus thinks about anything?

We should always strive to live our lives with Jesus as a model...that's what I try to do, though I too, fall short.

Going back to what you just said, Jesus said the same thing himself...I can try to find the passage but paraphrasing it, He says something like, just because you have not murdered, but you committed adultery...doesn't mean you are any less of a sinner...deserving death in your second life...

But the Gospel message then came through by saying something like, but through HIM we can be saved from this destiny....

Care

 

[Ravi]

People don't abide by many of Jesus' teachings....?

Christianity: 2.1 billion

World Christian Encyclopedia stated there were 2.1 billion Christians in the world, or 33% of the total population. Regardless of the degree of accuracy of this figure, Christianity, if taken as a whole, is unarguably the largest world religion - the largest religion in the world. (Keep in mind that although Christianity is the world's largest religion, it is an umbrella term that comprises many different branches and denominations.)

Major Religions Ranked by Size

Ever hear of cafeteria Catholics? Just because someone professes to be a Christian it doesn't mean they abide by many of the teachings of Jesus.