Jane Fonda

[CrusaderFrank]

Jane Fonda did more to save lives in Viet Nam than all the Generals combined

Jane Fonda did more to save Communist lives in Viet Nam than Walter Cronkite and all the rest of the Liberal media combined

There, fixed

 

[rightwinger]

Jane Fonda did more to save lives in Viet Nam than all the Generals combined

Too bad they weren't American lives. If there had been a formal declaration of war, Hanoi Jane would have been tried and convicted as a traitor.

I don't wish her to die, and I know it won't be possible, but if it was, I would gladly piss on her grave.

Actually, it was the Generals who should have been prosecuted

They lied about the need for a war
They lied about their prospects of winning
They lied about how the US was doing

Those Generals cost 60,000 US lives to fight a silly "Cold War" that was actually a Civil War

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I thought about something like this the other day...that is, actors dealing with old age when there are reruns running daily of when they were younger.
I will be 49 this Saturday...I don't think about age much, but certainly every once in a while. But how would any of us deal with it when there is a TON of hi-res quality videos out there for everyone to see when you were young?? You would constantly be reminded of what you looked like...and now don't.

 

[TooTall]

Bet you never thought you would hear me say that. (Niether did I) But really I have to thank you for that link to Rick Perlsteins article. He absolutely destroys the foundation of the anti-Jane cult. And the lies and urban legends that engulfed her because of her antiwar stand. He draws a poignant picture of a true American patriot. Of her grace and poise even in the face of persecution by Nixonites and constant harrassment by the FBI.
The story of her cathartic meeting in Waterbury with Veterans was especially meaninful. The Veterans who had come to the meeting full of hate left without the lies and recrimination. As one said, "That was the beginning of my healing."

And so the cults of hate in America should take a lesson from Janes story. Hate is nurtured by lies and propaganda. Now I know you won't mind if I copy and paste a few excerpts from your article;

"A doctored photograph was circulated (it showed up in several newspapers) showing Kerry on a speakers’ platform with Fonda. The picture was found to be a fake, but the association had already been planted. ‘John Kerry with Tits’: five syllables full of implications for the politics of gender, power and anxiety in America".

" a former pow, Air Force Major Fred Cherry, recalled Fonda’s voice ringing out over the prison public address system during an ‘extended torture siege’ in 1967. Fonda didn’t speak out against the war until 1970. (She visited Hanoi in 1972-S.B.)"

"No wonder Nixon was keen to attack Fonda. Her visit to the pows provided the occasion. Fonda, who was carrying 200 letters from the pows’ families, was asked if she would like to meet any prisoners personally. All the captives she met were volunteers, all openly critical of the war. Of course this was the opposite of what the urban legends suppose: that they were tortured into seeing her. But that is the reason the urban legends exist. They are a prophylactic against the anxiety that these pows, the symbolic stand-ins for American innocence, had stabbed themselves in the back."

"The cult matured in the 1980s when America finally began to accept that it had lost a war which hadn’t been worth fighting in the first place. This was around the time Ronald Reagan observed: ‘Boy, I saw Rambo last night. Now I know what to do next time this happens.’ The moment had come to fix the blame where it properly belonged: not on Lyndon Johnson, not on Richard Nixon, but, as Burke points out, on the oldest story in the world, ‘the seductive woman who turns out to be a snake"

OK, that's enough. Thanks Again-S.B.

Some are ignorant enough to believe when a liberal bedwetter rewrites history and others believe what those that were there said. I choose to believe the POW's that told their story instead of someone who wasn't even born at the time.

 

[NoNukes]

Jane Fonda did more to save lives in Viet Nam than all the Generals combined

Too bad they weren't American lives. If there had been a formal declaration of war, Hanoi Jane would have been tried and convicted as a traitor.

I don't wish her to die, and I know it won't be possible, but if it was, I would gladly piss on her grave.

Actually, it was the Generals who should have been prosecuted

They lied about the need for a war
They lied about their prospects of winning
They lied about how the US was doing

Those Generals cost 60,000 US lives to fight a silly "Cold War" that was actually a Civil War

I believe the 'body count' had us wiping out a good bit of the population. How did we lose?

 

[rightwinger]

Bet you never thought you would hear me say that. (Niether did I) But really I have to thank you for that link to Rick Perlsteins article. He absolutely destroys the foundation of the anti-Jane cult. And the lies and urban legends that engulfed her because of her antiwar stand. He draws a poignant picture of a true American patriot. Of her grace and poise even in the face of persecution by Nixonites and constant harrassment by the FBI.
The story of her cathartic meeting in Waterbury with Veterans was especially meaninful. The Veterans who had come to the meeting full of hate left without the lies and recrimination. As one said, "That was the beginning of my healing."

And so the cults of hate in America should take a lesson from Janes story. Hate is nurtured by lies and propaganda. Now I know you won't mind if I copy and paste a few excerpts from your article;

"A doctored photograph was circulated (it showed up in several newspapers) showing Kerry on a speakers’ platform with Fonda. The picture was found to be a fake, but the association had already been planted. ‘John Kerry with Tits’: five syllables full of implications for the politics of gender, power and anxiety in America".

" a former pow, Air Force Major Fred Cherry, recalled Fonda’s voice ringing out over the prison public address system during an ‘extended torture siege’ in 1967. Fonda didn’t speak out against the war until 1970. (She visited Hanoi in 1972-S.B.)"

"No wonder Nixon was keen to attack Fonda. Her visit to the pows provided the occasion. Fonda, who was carrying 200 letters from the pows’ families, was asked if she would like to meet any prisoners personally. All the captives she met were volunteers, all openly critical of the war. Of course this was the opposite of what the urban legends suppose: that they were tortured into seeing her. But that is the reason the urban legends exist. They are a prophylactic against the anxiety that these pows, the symbolic stand-ins for American innocence, had stabbed themselves in the back."

"The cult matured in the 1980s when America finally began to accept that it had lost a war which hadn’t been worth fighting in the first place. This was around the time Ronald Reagan observed: ‘Boy, I saw Rambo last night. Now I know what to do next time this happens.’ The moment had come to fix the blame where it properly belonged: not on Lyndon Johnson, not on Richard Nixon, but, as Burke points out, on the oldest story in the world, ‘the seductive woman who turns out to be a snake"

OK, that's enough. Thanks Again-S.B.

Some are ignorant enough to believe when a liberal bedwetter rewrites history and others believe what those that were there said. I choose to believe the POW's that told their story instead of someone who wasn't even born at the time.

Fair enough...can you link to the POWs story?

 

[TooTall]

Jane Fonda did more to save lives in Viet Nam than all the Generals combined

Too bad they weren't American lives. If there had been a formal declaration of war, Hanoi Jane would have been tried and convicted as a traitor.

I don't wish her to die, and I know it won't be possible, but if it was, I would gladly piss on her grave.

Actually, it was the Generals who should have been prosecuted

They lied about the need for a war
They lied about their prospects of winning
They lied about how the US was doing

Those Generals cost 60,000 US lives to fight a silly "Cold War" that was actually a Civil War

Generals do not send troops to war, they merely prosecute the war that the Congress funds and Presidents Kennedy and Johnson committed too. Nixon inherited it and finally realized (belatedly, IMO) that it was a lost cause because of the Communist influence of colleges and traitors like Hanoi Jane turning the public opinion against winning.

 

[NoNukes]

Too bad they weren't American lives. If there had been a formal declaration of war, Hanoi Jane would have been tried and convicted as a traitor.

I don't wish her to die, and I know it won't be possible, but if it was, I would gladly piss on her grave.

Actually, it was the Generals who should have been prosecuted

They lied about the need for a war
They lied about their prospects of winning
They lied about how the US was doing

Those Generals cost 60,000 US lives to fight a silly "Cold War" that was actually a Civil War

y

Generals do not send troops to war, they merely prosecute the war that the Congress funds and Presidents Kennedy and Johnson committed too. Nixon inherited it and finally realized (belatedly, IMO) that it was a lost cause because of the Communist influence of colleges and traitors like Hanoi Jane turning the public opinion against winning.

We turned public opinion against losing a war that we had no right to be involved in.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Bet you never thought you would hear me say that. (Niether did I) But really I have to thank you for that link to Rick Perlsteins article. He absolutely destroys the foundation of the anti-Jane cult. And the lies and urban legends that engulfed her because of her antiwar stand. He draws a poignant picture of a true American patriot. Of her grace and poise even in the face of persecution by Nixonites and constant harrassment by the FBI.
The story of her cathartic meeting in Waterbury with Veterans was especially meaninful. The Veterans who had come to the meeting full of hate left without the lies and recrimination. As one said, "That was the beginning of my healing."

And so the cults of hate in America should take a lesson from Janes story. Hate is nurtured by lies and propaganda. Now I know you won't mind if I copy and paste a few excerpts from your article;

"A doctored photograph was circulated (it showed up in several newspapers) showing Kerry on a speakers’ platform with Fonda. The picture was found to be a fake, but the association had already been planted. ‘John Kerry with Tits’: five syllables full of implications for the politics of gender, power and anxiety in America".

" a former pow, Air Force Major Fred Cherry, recalled Fonda’s voice ringing out over the prison public address system during an ‘extended torture siege’ in 1967. Fonda didn’t speak out against the war until 1970. (She visited Hanoi in 1972-S.B.)"

"No wonder Nixon was keen to attack Fonda. Her visit to the pows provided the occasion. Fonda, who was carrying 200 letters from the pows’ families, was asked if she would like to meet any prisoners personally. All the captives she met were volunteers, all openly critical of the war. Of course this was the opposite of what the urban legends suppose: that they were tortured into seeing her. But that is the reason the urban legends exist. They are a prophylactic against the anxiety that these pows, the symbolic stand-ins for American innocence, had stabbed themselves in the back."

"The cult matured in the 1980s when America finally began to accept that it had lost a war which hadn’t been worth fighting in the first place. This was around the time Ronald Reagan observed: ‘Boy, I saw Rambo last night. Now I know what to do next time this happens.’ The moment had come to fix the blame where it properly belonged: not on Lyndon Johnson, not on Richard Nixon, but, as Burke points out, on the oldest story in the world, ‘the seductive woman who turns out to be a snake"

OK, that's enough. Thanks Again-S.B.

"...destroys the foundation of the anti-Jane cult. And the lies and urban legends that engulfed her because of her antiwar stand."

I would say that you are barking up the wrong tree, but that is your natural voice.




Let's see how simple....the operative term when dealing with you.....it is to reveal you to be a moron.



Here, more about the 'lovely lady' you endorse....



1. In 1979, Humanitas, the organization of anti-war activist Joan Baez, purchased a newspaper ad that ran in five large circulation dailies, called “An Open Letter to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam,” which ran in part:

“Thousands of innocent Vietnamese, many of whose only “crimes” are those of conscience, are being arrested, detained and tortured in prison and re-education camps… The jails are overflowing with thousands upon thousands of “detainees”… People disappear and never return…

People are used as human mine detectors, clearing live mine fields with their hands and feet. For many, life is hell and death is prayed for. With tragic irony, the cruelty, violence and oppression practiced by foreign powers in your country for more than a century continue today under the present regime.

It was an abiding commitment to fundamental principles of human dignity, freedom and self-determination that motivated so many Americans to oppose the government of South Vietnam and our country's participation in the war. It is that same commitment that compels us to speak out against your brutal disregard of human rights. As in the 60s, we raise our voices now so that your people may live. And a Voice to Sing With -- A Memoir, by Joan Baez



2. Baez mailed the letter to 350 anti-war activists. Among those who refused to sign was Jane Fonda. “Your name would mean much more than any other,” she told Fonda, in a long letter. Fonda wrote that the add would lend credence to those who believe “that Communism is worse than death…”
Washington Post, Lynn Darling, “Joan Baez at 38,” June 29, 1979




You imbecile....her stand is and was pure pro-communism.


I've seen a few of your posts....she's not the only pro-communist anti-American you endorsed, is she.

Your opinion of who is anti American is simply that, an opinion. You are excellent at posting opinions. Name calling is another of your weaknesses.

"Name calling..."????


What the heck are you talking about, you...you butt-ugly, low-down, bottom-feeding, mouth-breathing, stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking Nerf herder?????

 

[PoliticalChic]

Jane Fonda did more to save lives in Viet Nam than all the Generals combined

That must be why she issued several apologies for her atrocious behavior.

 

[rightwinger]

Too bad they weren't American lives. If there had been a formal declaration of war, Hanoi Jane would have been tried and convicted as a traitor.

I don't wish her to die, and I know it won't be possible, but if it was, I would gladly piss on her grave.

Actually, it was the Generals who should have been prosecuted

They lied about the need for a war
They lied about their prospects of winning
They lied about how the US was doing

Those Generals cost 60,000 US lives to fight a silly "Cold War" that was actually a Civil War

Generals do not send troops to war, they merely prosecute the war that the Congress funds and Presidents Kennedy and Johnson committed too. Nixon inherited it and finally realized (belatedly, IMO) that it was a lost cause because of the Communist influence of colleges and traitors like Hanoi Jane turning the public opinion against winning.

Actually, it was a lost cause because it wasn't our fight

We never had any business getting involved in the first place (ask the French). We didn't have any effective strategy to win outside of attrition and we ran on a "Just give us 200,000 more troops and six more months and we will win" mythology

Jane Fonda figured it out........The War Mongers couldn't

 

[PoliticalChic]

It was the Jane Fondas who stood up to the War Machine and the "My Country Right or Wrong" crowd

The anti-war movement asked a simple question...Why are we here?

The Generals trumped up a reason to get involved in Viet Nam, lied about how we were doing and failed to admit that they really didn't have a plan for winning

The Jane Fondas of the time got us out of that hellhole and saved tens of thousands of American lives. It is a shame we could not have saved 60,000 lives by not getting involved in the first place

Perhaps you've heard the phrase "aid and comfort."


Perhaps not.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We should all be very very relieved that we are not each other's final judge.

Have you considered authoring the inserts for fortune cookies?

It would certainly be a step up from posting on one of your threads.

Wait....is this one of my threads???

....is this you posting?????




The concept of irony has spent the entirety of its existence waiting for you to come along and give it meaning.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Really? Because Ms. Fonda stood up and said, "hey, this Vietnam War is a really, really stupid idea", we did eventually get out of there, saving thousands of American lives.

I guess she could have said nothing and concentrated on her acting career.

Actually what she did, Joe, was to betray the Prisoners of War by handing little scraps of paper they had handed to her in secrecy. She earned her name Hanoi Jane. She handed the little bits of paper to the communists right in front of the american prisoners of war and didn't show any sign of conscience for what she'd done.

In fact, she denied she'd done anything wrong. So now she is having a crisis of conscience and it could very well be that God is dealing with her heart about having been a part in the torture that resulted to those men for her turning them in. That is probably something she is beginning to feel the weight of as time draws to a close for her.

I'm praying for Jane Fonda that she will repent publicly - for her part in assisting the communists - it doesn't matter whether anyone accepts her apology or not - it only matters that she does it because there are many people she harmed by her actions. Also there is no forgiveness without repentance. It has to be done so she can be reconciled back to God.

Do I believe Jane Fonda could be saved? Most definitely. I prayed for Kirsten Powers everytime she came to my mind or I saw her on tv - she was a fox news correspondent for the democratic party. I could look at her and tell she was utterly lost. One day I am reading on the internet and she has publicly confessed Jesus Christ as her savior and today she is a completely different woman! She even looks different!

How many other people felt led to pray for Kirsten who never met her? Probably many. I hope that this story leads to Jane Fonda's conversion. It would be great news to have a former communist who could be used by God to witness to Hollywood & other lost people. ........before it's too late for them also.

Good God

Why do you guys still tell that lie?

Because it isn't a lie. It's the truth. She did it and the prisoners of war who were there are the ones who told us she did it. Who am I going to believe? My own soldiers who were there or a communist? I'll believe the American POW's. Thank you. Note* I'm well aware of the attempt to bury the truth with false fact checking sites set up by people with an agenda. Americans have a memory. They haven't forgotten, RW. Perhaps Jane will grow a conscience and admit this before she dies. An unrepented sin of that magnitude will guarantee her more tears to come. It's her guilty conscience.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Bet you never thought you would hear me say that. (Niether did I) But really I have to thank you for that link to Rick Perlsteins article. He absolutely destroys the foundation of the anti-Jane cult. And the lies and urban legends that engulfed her because of her antiwar stand. He draws a poignant picture of a true American patriot. Of her grace and poise even in the face of persecution by Nixonites and constant harrassment by the FBI.
The story of her cathartic meeting in Waterbury with Veterans was especially meaninful. The Veterans who had come to the meeting full of hate left without the lies and recrimination. As one said, "That was the beginning of my healing."

And so the cults of hate in America should take a lesson from Janes story. Hate is nurtured by lies and propaganda. Now I know you won't mind if I copy and paste a few excerpts from your article;

"A doctored photograph was circulated (it showed up in several newspapers) showing Kerry on a speakers’ platform with Fonda. The picture was found to be a fake, but the association had already been planted. ‘John Kerry with Tits’: five syllables full of implications for the politics of gender, power and anxiety in America".

" a former pow, Air Force Major Fred Cherry, recalled Fonda’s voice ringing out over the prison public address system during an ‘extended torture siege’ in 1967. Fonda didn’t speak out against the war until 1970. (She visited Hanoi in 1972-S.B.)"

"No wonder Nixon was keen to attack Fonda. Her visit to the pows provided the occasion. Fonda, who was carrying 200 letters from the pows’ families, was asked if she would like to meet any prisoners personally. All the captives she met were volunteers, all openly critical of the war. Of course this was the opposite of what the urban legends suppose: that they were tortured into seeing her. But that is the reason the urban legends exist. They are a prophylactic against the anxiety that these pows, the symbolic stand-ins for American innocence, had stabbed themselves in the back."

"The cult matured in the 1980s when America finally began to accept that it had lost a war which hadn’t been worth fighting in the first place. This was around the time Ronald Reagan observed: ‘Boy, I saw Rambo last night. Now I know what to do next time this happens.’ The moment had come to fix the blame where it properly belonged: not on Lyndon Johnson, not on Richard Nixon, but, as Burke points out, on the oldest story in the world, ‘the seductive woman who turns out to be a snake"

OK, that's enough. Thanks Again-S.B.

"...destroys the foundation of the anti-Jane cult. And the lies and urban legends that engulfed her because of her antiwar stand."

I would say that you are barking up the wrong tree, but that is your natural voice.




Let's see how simple....the operative term when dealing with you.....it is to reveal you to be a moron.



Here, more about the 'lovely lady' you endorse....



1. In 1979, Humanitas, the organization of anti-war activist Joan Baez, purchased a newspaper ad that ran in five large circulation dailies, called “An Open Letter to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam,” which ran in part:

“Thousands of innocent Vietnamese, many of whose only “crimes” are those of conscience, are being arrested, detained and tortured in prison and re-education camps… The jails are overflowing with thousands upon thousands of “detainees”… People disappear and never return…

People are used as human mine detectors, clearing live mine fields with their hands and feet. For many, life is hell and death is prayed for. With tragic irony, the cruelty, violence and oppression practiced by foreign powers in your country for more than a century continue today under the present regime.

It was an abiding commitment to fundamental principles of human dignity, freedom and self-determination that motivated so many Americans to oppose the government of South Vietnam and our country's participation in the war. It is that same commitment that compels us to speak out against your brutal disregard of human rights. As in the 60s, we raise our voices now so that your people may live. And a Voice to Sing With -- A Memoir, by Joan Baez



2. Baez mailed the letter to 350 anti-war activists. Among those who refused to sign was Jane Fonda. “Your name would mean much more than any other,” she told Fonda, in a long letter. Fonda wrote that the add would lend credence to those who believe “that Communism is worse than death…”
Washington Post, Lynn Darling, “Joan Baez at 38,” June 29, 1979




You imbecile....her stand is and was pure pro-communism.


I've seen a few of your posts....she's not the only pro-communist anti-American you endorsed, is she.

Your opinion of who is anti American is simply that, an opinion. You are excellent at posting opinions. Name calling is another of your weaknesses.

Guess who else's opinion it incorporates?


2000: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless."

2005: "I will go to my grave regretting that. The image of Jane Fonda, Barbarella, Henry Fonda's daughter, just a woman sitting on a enemy aircraft gun, was a betrayal," said Fonda.

"It was like I was thumbing my nose at the military. And at the country that gave me privilege. It was the largest lapse of judgment that I can even imagine. I don't thumb my nose at this country. I care deeply about American soldiers."

Read more at snopes.com: Jane Fonda and American POWs in North Vietnam



Right now you’re probably trying to brush something off your face…you didn’t realize it was the floor.






In your face, boyyyyyeeeeee!

 

[rightwinger]

Jane Fonda did more to save lives in Viet Nam than all the Generals combined

That must be why she issued several apologies for her atrocious behavior.

Doesn't negate the fact that Fonda had a better perspective of what Viet Nam was about than all the Generals and Politicians of the time

She helped turn America against an ill-advised war and saved the lives of additional soldiers being thrown into a meat grinder

 

[rightwinger]

Actually what she did, Joe, was to betray the Prisoners of War by handing little scraps of paper they had handed to her in secrecy. She earned her name Hanoi Jane. She handed the little bits of paper to the communists right in front of the american prisoners of war and didn't show any sign of conscience for what she'd done.

In fact, she denied she'd done anything wrong. So now she is having a crisis of conscience and it could very well be that God is dealing with her heart about having been a part in the torture that resulted to those men for her turning them in. That is probably something she is beginning to feel the weight of as time draws to a close for her.

I'm praying for Jane Fonda that she will repent publicly - for her part in assisting the communists - it doesn't matter whether anyone accepts her apology or not - it only matters that she does it because there are many people she harmed by her actions. Also there is no forgiveness without repentance. It has to be done so she can be reconciled back to God.

Do I believe Jane Fonda could be saved? Most definitely. I prayed for Kirsten Powers everytime she came to my mind or I saw her on tv - she was a fox news correspondent for the democratic party. I could look at her and tell she was utterly lost. One day I am reading on the internet and she has publicly confessed Jesus Christ as her savior and today she is a completely different woman! She even looks different!

How many other people felt led to pray for Kirsten who never met her? Probably many. I hope that this story leads to Jane Fonda's conversion. It would be great news to have a former communist who could be used by God to witness to Hollywood & other lost people. ........before it's too late for them also.

Good God

Why do you guys still tell that lie?

Because it isn't a lie. It's the truth. She did it and the prisoners of war who were there are the ones who told us she did it. Who am I going to believe? My own soldiers who were there or a communist? I'll believe the American POW's. Thank you. Note* I'm well aware of the attempt to bury the truth with false fact checking sites set up by people with an agenda. Americans have a memory. They haven't forgotten, RW. Perhaps Jane will grow a conscience and admit this before she dies. An unrepented sin of that magnitude will guarantee her more tears to come. It's her guilty conscience.

Snopes is your friend

snopes.com: Jane Fonda and American POWs in North Vietnam

But it will not stop you from passing on your unsupported hate piece again and again and again

 

[PoliticalChic]

Jane Fonda did more to save lives in Viet Nam than all the Generals combined

Too bad they weren't American lives. If there had been a formal declaration of war, Hanoi Jane would have been tried and convicted as a traitor.

I don't wish her to die, and I know it won't be possible, but if it was, I would gladly piss on her grave.

Actually, it was the Generals who should have been prosecuted

They lied about the need for a war
They lied about their prospects of winning
They lied about how the US was doing

Those Generals cost 60,000 US lives to fight a silly "Cold War" that was actually a Civil War

One would hope that in the not too distant future, sometime before you exit this veil of tears, that you- somehow- find a subject to post about wherein you actually know something about the subject.


One can only hope.


Let's begin this journey of remediation:


1. The times:

The presidential race of 1960 was significant in that both Kennedy and Nixon were Cold Warriors, and it was the last race in which the Democrat would try to outdo the Republican in anticommunist zeal! By 1972, the Democratic Party had abandoned the fight against communism altogether.

a. Kennedy suggested that Eisenhower has permitted a ‘missile gap’ between the US and the USSR.

b. Both men referred to China as “Red China.” Have you heard it used today among the ‘enlightened.’

c. “ Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.” John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989

d. There were 16,000 American troops in Vietnam when JFK was assassinated. Podhoretz, “Why We Were In Vietnam,” p. 57.




2. The lies:

a. NYTimes’ Harrison Salisbury traveled to North Vietnam in 1966-67, and reported that the US was deliberately targeting the civilian population. But Guenter Lewy, in “America in Vietnam,” revealed that “Only after the articles had appeared did a small number of persons learn that Salisbury, in effect, had given the authority of his byline to unverified Communist propaganda and the New York Times printed it as though Salisbury had established it himself with his own on-the-scene reporting…borrowed extensively from a North Vietnamese propaganda pamphlet, “Report on US War Crimes in Nam-Dinh City…” Lewy, p. 400-401


b. There was Walter Cronkite’s report of the Tet Offensive.

“To listen to Cronkite you would have assumed the Tet Offensive was a dramatic triumph by North Vietnam and a devastating defeat for the U.S. Not hardly. I did a little research into the real number of casualties each side suffered in those battles: Country/Force Killed / Wounded / Missing
US, Korea, Australia 1,536 / 7,764 / 11
South Viet Nam 2,788 / 8,299 / 587
North Viet Nam and Viet Cong 45,000 / not known / not known” HolyCoast: Cronkite's Vietnam Editorial



3. Costing American lives.

a.It should be noted that majorities continued to believe that toughness was preferable to unilateral withdrawal: “ domestic public opinion clearly supported a resolute stance against communism in Vietnam, for the president's approval ratings increased during America's bombing of North Vietnam, despite increasingly vocal dissent.” Manta - Big finds from small businesses


b. On the other side, Senator McGovern, Democrat presidential candidate in ’72, was asked by a delegate to the convention “You want us to do all they (North Vietnamese) demand and then beg them to give back our boys? McGovern replied ‘I’ll accept that. Begging is better than bombing.” David Frum, “How We Got There” The 70’s…” p. 308.




Am I correct in assuming that you favored begging, as well?

 

[rightwinger]

It was the Jane Fondas who stood up to the War Machine and the "My Country Right or Wrong" crowd

The anti-war movement asked a simple question...Why are we here?

The Generals trumped up a reason to get involved in Viet Nam, lied about how we were doing and failed to admit that they really didn't have a plan for winning

The Jane Fondas of the time got us out of that hellhole and saved tens of thousands of American lives. It is a shame we could not have saved 60,000 lives by not getting involved in the first place

Perhaps you've heard the phrase "aid and comfort."


Perhaps not.

Yea, yea...I remember it well

My country right or wrong and the warmongers screeching that those hippies were giving aid and comfort to the enemy

 

[NoNukes]

"...destroys the foundation of the anti-Jane cult. And the lies and urban legends that engulfed her because of her antiwar stand."

I would say that you are barking up the wrong tree, but that is your natural voice.




Let's see how simple....the operative term when dealing with you.....it is to reveal you to be a moron.



Here, more about the 'lovely lady' you endorse....



1. In 1979, Humanitas, the organization of anti-war activist Joan Baez, purchased a newspaper ad that ran in five large circulation dailies, called “An Open Letter to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam,” which ran in part:

“Thousands of innocent Vietnamese, many of whose only “crimes” are those of conscience, are being arrested, detained and tortured in prison and re-education camps… The jails are overflowing with thousands upon thousands of “detainees”… People disappear and never return…

People are used as human mine detectors, clearing live mine fields with their hands and feet. For many, life is hell and death is prayed for. With tragic irony, the cruelty, violence and oppression practiced by foreign powers in your country for more than a century continue today under the present regime.

It was an abiding commitment to fundamental principles of human dignity, freedom and self-determination that motivated so many Americans to oppose the government of South Vietnam and our country's participation in the war. It is that same commitment that compels us to speak out against your brutal disregard of human rights. As in the 60s, we raise our voices now so that your people may live. And a Voice to Sing With -- A Memoir, by Joan Baez



2. Baez mailed the letter to 350 anti-war activists. Among those who refused to sign was Jane Fonda. “Your name would mean much more than any other,” she told Fonda, in a long letter. Fonda wrote that the add would lend credence to those who believe “that Communism is worse than death…”
Washington Post, Lynn Darling, “Joan Baez at 38,” June 29, 1979




You imbecile....her stand is and was pure pro-communism.


I've seen a few of your posts....she's not the only pro-communist anti-American you endorsed, is she.

Your opinion of who is anti American is simply that, an opinion. You are excellent at posting opinions. Name calling is another of your weaknesses.

"Name calling..."????


What the heck are you talking about, you...you butt-ugly, low-down, bottom-feeding, mouth-breathing, stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking Nerf herder?????

Thanks darling, you are too kind.