It's Time For A Flat Tax.

[Skull Pilot]

Our taxes would be simple to file and there is absolutely no room to cheat or evade taxes.

You're a ******* moron, you know that? If you want to evade the flat tax you can try the time honored tradition of HIDING INCOME. "Well gee whiz boss, I never thought of that!"

The only way to do that would be to work off the books. People already do that.

And fyi most people who work off the books are the working poor.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What happens to sales tax and every other tax?

Sales taxes are state and local taxes.

I am referring to the federal income tax.

 

[Ariux]

what does Romney do with his money? Give me his cash-flow statement:

Revenues
lots & lots & lots of dollars


Expenses
1 apple, 2 bananas, 3 candy-bars
and _________________________​

watch this (please) -- Romney lends $1M to Acme company, to expand their widget factory; with Romney's loaned $1M, they

• buy new equipment (taxed 10% on sales), and build a new factory (taxed 10% on sales), hiring construction workers to do so (taxed 10% on labor)
• hire more workers, paying them more wages (taxed 10% on labor)
• sell more widgets (all taxed 10% on sales)

Lots of Romney's money winds up taken as tax. Not directly from Romney himself; but the Public Purse winds up with the money, all the same. Meanwhile, businesses sold more equipment; workers built more factories & widgets; and customers got to buy more widgets. Taxes are paid. Business is done.

Your complaints are .... ?

Romney lends $1M to Acme company at 6%. It makes no difference to Romney what taxes Acme is paying, as long as Romney gets his 6%. Later, Romney buys $1M in stock, but at India's Bally Co. because the cost of doing business is too high in America for a good return on investment. Again, at the end of the day, Romney pays a fraction of the taxes you'd have the middle-class pay. Meanwhile, Middle-class Bob loses his job because his American company went out of business, because your tax increases on his employer pushed the company out of business.

 

[hortysir]

What happens to sales tax and every other tax?

Sales taxes are state and local taxes.

I am referring to the federal income tax.

You don't foresee them skyrocketing under a flat-tax system?

 

[Skull Pilot]

What happens to sales tax and every other tax?

Sales taxes are state and local taxes.

I am referring to the federal income tax.

You don't foresee them skyrocketing under a flat-tax system?

Why would they?

State and local taxes have little to do with federal taxes and since a 10% flat tax would as I have shown increase federal revnue substantially there might even be more money for state aid than there is now.

 

[hortysir]

Just asking, SP

 

[Nosmo King]

All the supporters for so called progressive punitive taxes have some bitter pills to swallow with the undeniable success of the flat tax in other countries.

The Rise Of The Flat Tax Gives Us Morning In Albania - Forbes

Here's a simple example

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

In 2009 the total income tax revenue was 865.8 Billion

In 2009 the total of all personal income was about 12 Trillion dollars.

Total Personal Income U.S. and All States

That works out to an effective tax rate of about 7% on all personal income.

This is not AGI mind you but gross personal income.

If we instituted a flat tax of of 10% on all personal income our tax revenue in 2009 would have been 1.2 Trillion dollars.

If we lower the corporate income tax to the same flat rate we'll see even more revenue as businesses will no longer have incentive to keep money off shore.

Our taxes would be simple to file and there is absolutely no room to cheat or evade taxes.

We would be able to gut the IRS and save billions of dollars.

We wouldn't have to hire accountants and tax attorneys anymore.

And we get to keep 90% of what we earn every year.

How can anyone oppose this simple yet elegant plan?

What's the exemption? $25,000? $30,000?

The rich want you to support a flat tax because their marginal rates will plummet while the tax rates for those least able to afford a Conservative tax increase will suffer the most. If you want something as favorable to the rich as a flat tax, there has to be a floor beneath which no tax is charged, an exemption.

If I'm going to lose the mortgage deduction just so someone in Newport or Palm Beach can have his taxes lowered to fulfill some warped Conservative dream of a flat tax, we need an exemption.

 

[Widdekind]

If you want to evade the flat tax you can try the time honored tradition of HIDING INCOME.

Tax evasion declines with decreasing cost & complexity of taxes. A simple, equitable, reasonable flat-rate tax would motivate less cheating than the current system. (Logically, in this thread, attempts at evasion, under the current complex code, are somehow being used to bash a suggested new flat-rate system. That makes zero logical sense.)

Romney lends $1M to Acme company at 6%. It makes no difference to Romney what taxes Acme is paying, as long as Romney gets his 6%.

But his money is still paying taxes, building businesses, and creating jobs. What is your complaint, there-from ?

Romney pays a fraction of the taxes you'd have the middle-class pay. Meanwhile, Middle-class Bob loses his job...

First, Romney's money pays more taxes. Second, Romney's money creating jobs does not destroy jobs.

 

[Skull Pilot]

All the supporters for so called progressive punitive taxes have some bitter pills to swallow with the undeniable success of the flat tax in other countries.

The Rise Of The Flat Tax Gives Us Morning In Albania - Forbes

Here's a simple example

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

In 2009 the total income tax revenue was 865.8 Billion

In 2009 the total of all personal income was about 12 Trillion dollars.

Total Personal Income U.S. and All States

That works out to an effective tax rate of about 7% on all personal income.

This is not AGI mind you but gross personal income.

If we instituted a flat tax of of 10% on all personal income our tax revenue in 2009 would have been 1.2 Trillion dollars.

If we lower the corporate income tax to the same flat rate we'll see even more revenue as businesses will no longer have incentive to keep money off shore.

Our taxes would be simple to file and there is absolutely no room to cheat or evade taxes.

We would be able to gut the IRS and save billions of dollars.

We wouldn't have to hire accountants and tax attorneys anymore.

And we get to keep 90% of what we earn every year.

How can anyone oppose this simple yet elegant plan?

What's the exemption? $25,000? $30,000?

The rich want you to support a flat tax because their marginal rates will plummet while the tax rates for those least able to afford a Conservative tax increase will suffer the most. If you want something as favorable to the rich as a flat tax, there has to be a floor beneath which no tax is charged, an exemption.

If I'm going to lose the mortgage deduction just so someone in Newport or Palm Beach can have his taxes lowered to fulfill some warped Conservative dream of a flat tax, we need an exemption.

What is the problem you people have with everyone being treated equally under the law?

I see nothing egregious about a 10% flat tax.

In fact if you don't want to increase government revenues so as to pay down the monstrous debt a 7.5% flat tax would keep revenues from income taxes about where they are now.

I see no reasons for exemptions with such a low rate.

 

[Nosmo King]

What's the exemption? $25,000? $30,000?

The rich want you to support a flat tax because their marginal rates will plummet while the tax rates for those least able to afford a Conservative tax increase will suffer the most. If you want something as favorable to the rich as a flat tax, there has to be a floor beneath which no tax is charged, an exemption.

If I'm going to lose the mortgage deduction just so someone in Newport or Palm Beach can have his taxes lowered to fulfill some warped Conservative dream of a flat tax, we need an exemption.

What is the problem you people have with everyone being treated equally under the law?

I see nothing egregious about a 10% flat tax.

In fact if you don't want to increase government revenues so as to pay down the monstrous debt a 7.5% flat tax would keep revenues from income taxes about where they are now.

I see no reasons for exemptions with such a low rate.

It's not an equal justice issue. It's who can afford taxes and who cannot. At 10%, a single mother earning $20,000 is expected to pay $2,000. Leaving her with $18,000 before state, local and other taxes (sales tax, excise tax) take their bites. But, a single mother making $200,000 pays $20,000 (the same amount earned by another) and has a comfortable $180,000 left before her other taxes hit.

We have to build a robust Middle Class to get the economy up to steam. Removing current exemptions, like the mortgage deduction (designed to stimulate home ownership) strips the middle class of disposable income which moves through the economy creating jobs.

If helping the rich out more will result in further income disparities and less of the wealth of the country owned by the majority rather than the top 5% of incomes, then tell me how this will do us any good at all!

 

[Skull Pilot]

What's the exemption? $25,000? $30,000?

The rich want you to support a flat tax because their marginal rates will plummet while the tax rates for those least able to afford a Conservative tax increase will suffer the most. If you want something as favorable to the rich as a flat tax, there has to be a floor beneath which no tax is charged, an exemption.

If I'm going to lose the mortgage deduction just so someone in Newport or Palm Beach can have his taxes lowered to fulfill some warped Conservative dream of a flat tax, we need an exemption.

What is the problem you people have with everyone being treated equally under the law?

I see nothing egregious about a 10% flat tax.

In fact if you don't want to increase government revenues so as to pay down the monstrous debt a 7.5% flat tax would keep revenues from income taxes about where they are now.

I see no reasons for exemptions with such a low rate.

It's not an equal justice issue. It's who can afford taxes and who cannot. At 10%, a single mother earning $20,000 is expected to pay $2,000. Leaving her with $18,000 before state, local and other taxes (sales tax, excise tax) take their bites. But, a single mother making $200,000 pays $20,000 (the same amount earned by another) and has a comfortable $180,000 left before her other taxes hit.

We have to build a robust Middle Class to get the economy up to steam. Removing current exemptions, like the mortgage deduction (designed to stimulate home ownership) strips the middle class of disposable income which moves through the economy creating jobs.

If helping the rich out more will result in further income disparities and less of the wealth of the country owned by the majority rather than the top 5% of incomes, then tell me how this will do us any good at all!

People owned homes before the mortgage exemption and will own homes if it is done away with.

And it seems to me that a the punitive nature of the progressive tax code and it's immense complexity hasn't helped anyone in the middle class at all.

Exempting nearly 50% of the population from income taxes and expecting others to pay more and more of their money in taxes is unjust.

 

[editec]

**** taxes, impose TARIFFS.

If we could run our nation for 150 years on no incomes taxes from only the revenue from TARIFFS we can do it again.

 

[Care4all]

All the supporters for so called progressive punitive taxes have some bitter pills to swallow with the undeniable success of the flat tax in other countries.

The Rise Of The Flat Tax Gives Us Morning In Albania - Forbes

Here's a simple example

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

In 2009 the total income tax revenue was 865.8 Billion

In 2009 the total of all personal income was about 12 Trillion dollars.

Total Personal Income U.S. and All States

That works out to an effective tax rate of about 7% on all personal income.

This is not AGI mind you but gross personal income.

If we instituted a flat tax of of 10% on all personal income our tax revenue in 2009 would have been 1.2 Trillion dollars.

If we lower the corporate income tax to the same flat rate we'll see even more revenue as businesses will no longer have incentive to keep money off shore.

Our taxes would be simple to file and there is absolutely no room to cheat or evade taxes.

We would be able to gut the IRS and save billions of dollars.

We wouldn't have to hire accountants and tax attorneys anymore.

And we get to keep 90% of what we earn every year.

How can anyone oppose this simple yet elegant plan?

What's the exemption? $25,000? $30,000?

The rich want you to support a flat tax because their marginal rates will plummet while the tax rates for those least able to afford a Conservative tax increase will suffer the most. If you want something as favorable to the rich as a flat tax, there has to be a floor beneath which no tax is charged, an exemption.

If I'm going to lose the mortgage deduction just so someone in Newport or Palm Beach can have his taxes lowered to fulfill some warped Conservative dream of a flat tax, we need an exemption.

What is the problem you people have with everyone being treated equally under the law?

I see nothing egregious about a 10% flat tax.

In fact if you don't want to increase government revenues so as to pay down the monstrous debt a 7.5% flat tax would keep revenues from income taxes about where they are now.

I see no reasons for exemptions with such a low rate.

we are already treated equally on income taxes under the law....every taxable income bracket is EQUAL for everyone in it...no one pays a dime more for every dollar earned in THAT taxable income bracket.

when starting out in the working field, most people begin with taxable income earned at the level of the first tax bracket, 10%.

And as they get older and earn more money, these people make it to the second taxable income bracket and for the money earned in that bracket they pay the 15% for every dollar earned in that bracket, EQUAL to everyone else dollar for dollar that has income in that bracket.

They all still pay only 10% on their first dollars in taxable income earned, and then 15% on the taxable income above that...

The billionaire or millionaire ALSO PAYS ONLY 10% for the money they earn that falls in to the first taxable income bracket of 10%. That millionaire PAYS THE SAME in taxes on his first 20k in taxable income earned as the poor couple does who only earned the 20k in taxable income.

What makes our income taxes UNFAIR or UNEQUAL, is all the tax write offs and loopholes written in to the tax code that favors some over others.

so, how about a flat tax with no deductions using a tax bracket system similar to what we have now...only NO DEDUCTIONS allowed, but lowering the tax percentages for each bracket with the money earned in the highest bracket being 20%....and maybe the taxes at the beginning tax bracket at 2%?

the only problem with any of these measures of a flat tax, yours and mine, is that the SC in a decision of some sort way back when, said that taxable income is "profit" being taxed, not plain income....so our standard deduction and personal exemption covers our minimal living expenses, and none of us are taxed for the first X amount
of income earned.... that has to be taken out, before we have taxable income with a flat rate.

 

[dblack]

we are already treated equally on income taxes under the law....every taxable income bracket is EQUAL for everyone in it...no one pays a dime more for every dollar earned in THAT taxable income bracket.

This snake sort of eats itself. As soon as you put people and brackets and treat them differently - well, that's not equal, but ...

It's discriminating on one isolated factor (income level). And even a flat tax has a level of inequality to it, in that people who make more money still pay more in taxes.

What makes our income taxes UNFAIR or UNEQUAL, is all the tax write offs and loopholes written in to the tax code that favors some over others.

This is, by far, the most egregious corruption of our tax system. And, while I would favor a flat tax over a progressive tax, ending the loopholes and incentives polluting the tax code would be the bigger improvement, and should be done first.

so, how about a flat tax with no deductions using a tax bracket system similar to what we have now...only NO DEDUCTIONS allowed, but lowering the tax percentages for each bracket with the money earned in the highest bracket being 20%....and maybe the taxes at the beginning tax bracket at 2%?

the only problem with any of these measures of a flat tax, yours and mine, is that the SC in a decision of some sort way back when, said that taxable income is "profit" being taxed, not plain income....so our standard deduction and personal exemption covers our minimal living expenses, and none of us are taxed for the first X amount
of income earned.... that has to be taken out, before we have taxable income with a flat rate.

Heh... a "flat tax" with brackets isn't exactly flat, is it?

But apart from the semantic complaint, this sounds like a great proposal. The key in limiting deductions and loopholes is to eliminate all deductions outside of legitimate business expenses. That means no deductions for 'dependents' or child-care or health-care or mortgage debt or any of the other things we are responsible for that aren't directly related to calculating net income. There will be some grey area there, to be sure, but it's something to aim for. The point is to stop using taxes as a game to manipulate the economy (and frankly, people), and to constrain the taxation power to an honest means of financing government.

 

[dblack]

We have to build a robust Middle Class to get the economy up to steam. Removing current exemptions, like the mortgage deduction (designed to stimulate home ownership) strips the middle class of disposable income which moves through the economy creating jobs.

The home mortgage interest tax deduction doesn't encourage ownership, it encourages debt. There IS a difference. Ask the banks.

 

[Care4all]

we are already treated equally on income taxes under the law....every taxable income bracket is EQUAL for everyone in it...no one pays a dime more for every dollar earned in THAT taxable income bracket.

This snake sort of eats itself. As soon as you put people and brackets and treat them differently - well, that's not equal, but ...

It's discriminating on one isolated factor (income level). And even a flat tax has a level of inequality to it, in that people who make more money still pay more in taxes.

What makes our income taxes UNFAIR or UNEQUAL, is all the tax write offs and loopholes written in to the tax code that favors some over others.

This is, by far, the most egregious corruption of our tax system. And, while I would favor a flat tax over a progressive tax, ending the loopholes and incentives polluting the tax code would be the bigger improvement, and should be done first.

so, how about a flat tax with no deductions using a tax bracket system similar to what we have now...only NO DEDUCTIONS allowed, but lowering the tax percentages for each bracket with the money earned in the highest bracket being 20%....and maybe the taxes at the beginning tax bracket at 2%?

the only problem with any of these measures of a flat tax, yours and mine, is that the SC in a decision of some sort way back when, said that taxable income is "profit" being taxed, not plain income....so our standard deduction and personal exemption covers our minimal living expenses, and none of us are taxed for the first X amount
of income earned.... that has to be taken out, before we have taxable income with a flat rate.

Heh... a "flat tax" with brackets isn't exactly flat, is it?

But apart from the semantic complaint, this sounds like a great proposal. The key in limiting deductions and loopholes is to eliminate all deductions outside of legitimate business expenses. That means no deductions for 'dependents' or child-care or health-care or mortgage debt or any of the other things we are responsible for that aren't directly related to calculating net income. There will be some grey area there, to be sure, but it's something to aim for. The point is to stop using taxes as a game to manipulate the economy (and frankly, people), and to constrain the taxation power to an honest means of financing government.

hmmm, well maybe I invented something?

Actually, I didn't know what to call it...it is per-say a flat tax for the progressive bracket?? meaning there is no code reaching 9 feet tall with all the exemptions and deductions and loopholes written in to it....

 

[Skull Pilot]

What's the exemption? $25,000? $30,000?

The rich want you to support a flat tax because their marginal rates will plummet while the tax rates for those least able to afford a Conservative tax increase will suffer the most. If you want something as favorable to the rich as a flat tax, there has to be a floor beneath which no tax is charged, an exemption.

If I'm going to lose the mortgage deduction just so someone in Newport or Palm Beach can have his taxes lowered to fulfill some warped Conservative dream of a flat tax, we need an exemption.

What is the problem you people have with everyone being treated equally under the law?

I see nothing egregious about a 10% flat tax.

In fact if you don't want to increase government revenues so as to pay down the monstrous debt a 7.5% flat tax would keep revenues from income taxes about where they are now.

I see no reasons for exemptions with such a low rate.

we are already treated equally on income taxes under the law....every taxable income bracket is EQUAL for everyone in it...no one pays a dime more for every dollar earned in THAT taxable income bracket.

when starting out in the working field, most people begin with taxable income earned at the level of the first tax bracket, 10%.

And as they get older and earn more money, these people make it to the second taxable income bracket and for the money earned in that bracket they pay the 15% for every dollar earned in that bracket, EQUAL to everyone else dollar for dollar that has income in that bracket.

They all still pay only 10% on their first dollars in taxable income earned, and then 15% on the taxable income above that...

I am quite aware how the punitive progressive tax code works. There is no justification for it. One should not be forced to pay more simply because one can afford it.

How would you like it if every purchase was placed on a sliding scale based on your income? You would pay more for everything simply because you have more money than someone else.

That is exactly what our multi million word tax code does. You call that fair and equal?

The billionaire or millionaire ALSO PAYS ONLY 10% for the money they earn that falls in to the first taxable income bracket of 10%. That millionaire PAYS THE SAME in taxes on his first 20k in taxable income earned as the poor couple does who only earned the 20k in taxable income.

You are all so hooked on the amount of money people have. It seems to me those that spit the word millionaire or billionaire out like a curse are driven by motives other than fairness and equity when saying people who make more deserve to pay a higher percentage than others.

What makes our income taxes UNFAIR or UNEQUAL, is all the tax write offs and loopholes written in to the tax code that favors some over others.

Which is exactly what the flat tax will end. We will not have the need for an army if IRS agents and can substantially cut the size of government thereby saving even more money that can be used to help the truly needy.

so, how about a flat tax with no deductions using a tax bracket system similar to what we have now...only NO DEDUCTIONS allowed, but lowering the tax percentages for each bracket with the money earned in the highest bracket being 20%....and maybe the taxes at the beginning tax bracket at 2%?

That's not a flat tax now is it. That is just another version of the punitive progressive tax we have now.

 

[rightwinger]

we are already treated equally on income taxes under the law....every taxable income bracket is EQUAL for everyone in it...no one pays a dime more for every dollar earned in THAT taxable income bracket.

This snake sort of eats itself. As soon as you put people and brackets and treat them differently - well, that's not equal, but ...

It's discriminating on one isolated factor (income level). And even a flat tax has a level of inequality to it, in that people who make more money still pay more in taxes.

What makes our income taxes UNFAIR or UNEQUAL, is all the tax write offs and loopholes written in to the tax code that favors some over others.

This is, by far, the most egregious corruption of our tax system. And, while I would favor a flat tax over a progressive tax, ending the loopholes and incentives polluting the tax code would be the bigger improvement, and should be done first.

so, how about a flat tax with no deductions using a tax bracket system similar to what we have now...only NO DEDUCTIONS allowed, but lowering the tax percentages for each bracket with the money earned in the highest bracket being 20%....and maybe the taxes at the beginning tax bracket at 2%?

the only problem with any of these measures of a flat tax, yours and mine, is that the SC in a decision of some sort way back when, said that taxable income is "profit" being taxed, not plain income....so our standard deduction and personal exemption covers our minimal living expenses, and none of us are taxed for the first X amount
of income earned.... that has to be taken out, before we have taxable income with a flat rate.

Heh... a "flat tax" with brackets isn't exactly flat, is it?

But apart from the semantic complaint, this sounds like a great proposal. The key in limiting deductions and loopholes is to eliminate all deductions outside of legitimate business expenses. That means no deductions for 'dependents' or child-care or health-care or mortgage debt or any of the other things we are responsible for that aren't directly related to calculating net income. There will be some grey area there, to be sure, but it's something to aim for. The point is to stop using taxes as a game to manipulate the economy (and frankly, people), and to constrain the taxation power to an honest means of financing government.

All people are treated equally. Every dollar you earn up to $10,000 is taxed the same. Every dollar you earn up to $100,000 is taxed the same

Money is treated differently, people are treated the same

 

[Care4all]

What is the problem you people have with everyone being treated equally under the law?

I see nothing egregious about a 10% flat tax.

In fact if you don't want to increase government revenues so as to pay down the monstrous debt a 7.5% flat tax would keep revenues from income taxes about where they are now.

I see no reasons for exemptions with such a low rate.

we are already treated equally on income taxes under the law....every taxable income bracket is EQUAL for everyone in it...no one pays a dime more for every dollar earned in THAT taxable income bracket.

when starting out in the working field, most people begin with taxable income earned at the level of the first tax bracket, 10%.

And as they get older and earn more money, these people make it to the second taxable income bracket and for the money earned in that bracket they pay the 15% for every dollar earned in that bracket, EQUAL to everyone else dollar for dollar that has income in that bracket.

They all still pay only 10% on their first dollars in taxable income earned, and then 15% on the taxable income above that...

I am quite aware how the punitive progressive tax code works. There is no justification for it. One should not be forced to pay more simply because one can afford it.

How would you like it if every purchase was placed on a sliding scale based on your income? You would pay more for everything simply because you have more money than someone else.

That is exactly what our multi million word tax code does. You call that fair and equal?



You are all so hooked on the amount of money people have. It seems to me those that spit the word millionaire or billionaire out like a curse are driven by motives other than fairness and equity when saying people who make more deserve to pay a higher percentage than others.

What makes our income taxes UNFAIR or UNEQUAL, is all the tax write offs and loopholes written in to the tax code that favors some over others.

Which is exactly what the flat tax will end. We will not have the need for an army if IRS agents and can substantially cut the size of government thereby saving even more money that can be used to help the truly needy.

so, how about a flat tax with no deductions using a tax bracket system similar to what we have now...only NO DEDUCTIONS allowed, but lowering the tax percentages for each bracket with the money earned in the highest bracket being 20%....and maybe the taxes at the beginning tax bracket at 2%?

That's not a flat tax now is it. That is just another version of the punitive progressive tax we have now.

Skull, you are full of crud on me calling out millionaires or billionaires as some sort of curse word or demon...

I DID NO SUCH THING....

so, why are YOU so envious of those who make less and pay less in taxes? Your Envy is worn on your coat sleeve Skull and is eating you alive...get a grip...!!!

As far as all the deductions and write offs and loopholes that are in our tax code that favor one person over another....that is MESSED UP, big time....and that is where the UNFAIRNESS comes.

 

[dblack]

What makes our income taxes UNFAIR or UNEQUAL, is all the tax write offs and loopholes written in to the tax code that favors some over others.

Which is exactly what the flat tax will end. We will not have the need for an army if IRS agents and can substantially cut the size of government thereby saving even more money that can be used to help the truly needy.

How so? Not to quibble, as I'm actually in favor of a flat tax, but flat vs. progressive is an entirely independent issue from the use of loopholes and deductions to manipulate society. I could easily see Congress flattening out the tax rates and leaving all the screwed up loopholes and incentives in there - or even adding more. Likewise, they could remove all those and keep the same tax brackets.

Both flattening the tax rates and getting rid of loopholes/incentives would be best, but if we can get broad consensus on only one of those we should pursue it. And I think we could find wide support from liberals, conservatives and libertarians for ending the tax incentive game. Authoritarians will want to hang on to it, as it gives them the power they crave. But, you know, **** them.