It's the consequences...Dammit!

[Bullypulpit]

It's the consequences of our actions...Here and now...In this world, and to this human life that determine whether an action is right or wrong.

Any action leading to the harm of one's self, to others or to both is not to be undertaken. Unfortunately, we're mostly of the mind that so long as it doesn't hurt me, everyone else can go to hell. And that attitude is the road to hell on earth.

We don't need the threat of a hell or the promise of a heaven to be good and moral people. We simply need to understand that in order to live a good life we must make this life in this world the measure against which the consequences of our morals and values are weighed. If it is hamful...It is to be discarded. We don't need to worry about all of the metaphysical claptrap surrounding the idea of rewards and punishments in some mythical afterlife. Understand the consequences of our actions here and now, and there is no need to worry about an afterlife...It'll sort itself out.

 

[insein]

k....

 

[NewGuy]

A man denying his God.

 

[krisy]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
It's the consequences of our actions...Here and now...In this world, and to this human life that determine whether an action is right or wrong.

Any action leading to the harm of one's self, to others or to both is not to be undertaken. Unfortunately, we're mostly of the mind that so long as it doesn't hurt me, everyone else can go to hell. And that attitude is the road to hell on earth.

We don't need the threat of a hell or the promise of a heaven to be good and moral people. We simply need to understand that in order to live a good life we must make this life in this world the measure against which the consequences of our morals and values are weighed. If it is hamful...It is to be discarded. We don't need to worry about all of the metaphysical BS surrounding the idea of rewards and punishments in some mythical afterlife. Understand the consequences of our actions here and now, and there is no need to worry about an afterlife...It'll sort itself out.

You must be a fan of some sort of afterlife since you have the number of the anti Christ on George Bush's head.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I believe a society which is focused on maintaining free markets and protecting individual rights WILL lead to the greatest happiness here on earth, in this life, irrespective of metaphysical bullshit. Bully, your leftist utopias always end in horrifying oppression and total stagnation. Screw Liberalism, it ain't superior.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I believe a society which is focused on maintaining free markets and protecting individual rights WILL lead to the greatest happiness here on earth, in this life, irrespective of metaphysical bullshit. Bully, your leftist utopias always end in horrifying oppression and total stagnation. Screw Liberalism, it ain't superior.

Utopias, in general, lead to stagnation and oppression. Doesn't matter if it's the Left or Right. But if the maintenace of free markets and individual rights come at the expense of the welfare and rights of others, is it moral and just?...Or does the worn out ideal of "the greatest good for the greatest number" outweigh the greatest good for all?

The pipedream of unregulated free markets presupposes a rational society...And that is something we just don't have.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by NewGuy
A man denying his God.

And which god might that be?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by krisy
You must be a fan of some sort of afterlife since you have the number of the anti Christ on George Bush's head.

Satire does not imply the belief in an afterlife.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Satire does not imply the belief in an afterlife.

Mocking a man and his religion and the religion of most people on here is really cool.

I would fight to the death to defend your right to blaspheme the president defending your right to blaspheme him.

Bottom Line: Of course you have a right to put up a pic of the president with mark of satan on him, but does it make you a nice person? No, it makes you a dick.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
It's the consequences of our actions...Here and now...In this world, and to this human life that determine whether an action is right or wrong.

Any action leading to the harm of one's self, to others or to both is not to be undertaken. Unfortunately, we're mostly of the mind that so long as it doesn't hurt me, everyone else can go to hell. And that attitude is the road to hell on earth.

We don't need the threat of a hell or the promise of a heaven to be good and moral people. We simply need to understand that in order to live a good life we must make this life in this world the measure against which the consequences of our morals and values are weighed. If it is hamful...It is to be discarded. We don't need to worry about all of the metaphysical BS surrounding the idea of rewards and punishments in some mythical afterlife. Understand the consequences of our actions here and now, and there is no need to worry about an afterlife...It'll sort itself out.

I agree that there doesn't have to be a belief in an afterlife to be moral.

That's not to say that I disparage one's belief in it though. If that's what someone believes well, more power to them and I hope it brings them the comfort they seek.

I also disagree with your definition of morality...sometimes harm to others is necessary.

If you truly believed in your own definition of morality you would not have posted what you did. Perhaps calling someone's faith "BS" isn't the most moral thing to do, you know?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Mocking a man and his religion and the religion of most people on here is really cool.

I would fight to the death to defend your right to blaspheme the president defending your right to blaspheme him.

Bottom Line: Of course you have a right to put up a pic of the president with mark of satan on him, but does it make you a nice person? No, it makes you a dick.

One man's blasphemy is another man's joke.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
I agree that there doesn't have to be a belief in an afterlife to be moral.

That's not to say that I disparage one's belief in it though. If that's what someone believes well, more power to them and I hope it brings them the comfort they seek.

I also disagree with your definition of morality...sometimes harm to others is necessary.

If you truly believed in your own definition of morality you would not have posted what you did. Perhaps calling someone's faith "BS" isn't the most moral thing to do, you know?

Sorry, but I did not call another's faith BS. Most religions have, at their root, a sound moral philosophy. It is the rank weeds of metaphysics that have grown up around that philosophy that cause the problems. When moral laws are attributed to something outside, or beyond human experience, conflicts arise as to whose "experience" of this metaphysical entity is the "One True" source of that "experience". Strip away the metaphysics, and you have a workable moral philosophy. Cling to it, and you have strife and chaos.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Utopias, in general, lead to stagnation and oppression. Doesn't matter if it's the Left or Right. But if the maintenace of free markets and individual rights come at the expense of the welfare and rights of others, is it moral and just?...Or does the worn out ideal of "the greatest good for the greatest number" outweigh the greatest good for all?

The pipedream of unregulated free markets presupposes a rational society...And that is something we just don't have.

See, what you don't get is that socialist utopias always equal misery for all as the reward for action is removed, and the supposedly enlightened government degenerates into a bunch of corrupt governmental apparatchiks using the official repression of free markets to force everyone into black markets, exclusively controlled by them. Oh and the complete suppression of ideas of freedom and individual rights are a necessary requirement in leftist regime.

Freedom and indiviual liberty are prefereable to this. Yes some people will be richer than others for many varied reasons, that doesn't make it EVIL. IT's better than governmental bureaucrats having all the power for no other reason that they are the government and "they care", oh yeah, and they have the guns, and the right to use them to enforce their agenda. Frankly, I'd rather people like bill gates and donald trump run society. And that's the truth. Go to hell socialists.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Strip away the metaphysics, and you have a workable moral philosophy. Cling to it, and you have strife and chaos.

Do you realize how idiotic you just made yourself look?

A relationship with Christ is not metaphysics.

Let's reword what you said to include the proper term in place of "metaphysics":

Strip away the relationship with Christ, and you have a workable moral philosophy. Cling to the philosophy alone, and you have strife and chaos.

What you really mean, as pointed out, is that no man can truly determine right and wrong and stick to it. Only God can through His code outlined in the Bible. Since the Bible claims He will cleanse and forgive when we accept Him, all is well.

-But YOU want moral relativity so you can try to feed your ego as being that you are "right", and deny God at every turn but you are truly losing ground and you know it, otherwise you wouldn't try so hard.

Christ is the ONLY LOGICAL WAY.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Do you realize how idiotic you just made yourself loo?

A relationship with Christ is not metaphysics.

Let's reword what you said to include the proper term in place of "metaphysics":


What you really mean, as pointed out, is that no man can truly determine right and wrong and stick to it. Only God can through His code outlined in the Bible. Since the Bible claims He will cleanse and forgive when we accept Him, all is well.

-But YOU want moral relativity so you can try to feed your ego as being that you are "right", and deny God at every turn but you are truly losing ground and you know it, otherwise you wouldn't try so hard.

Christ is the ONLY LOGICAL WAY.

Sorry, but it is metaphysics.

And I never believe I mentioned anything about moral relativism. I spoke of the real consequences of our morals and values to this human life, in this world. Human life is the measure against which those consequences are weighed. Our morals and values, then, are more human and humane. If it harms oneself, another, or both it is bad. If it benefits oneself, another, or both, then it is good. There is nothing relitivistic about it.

I believe you are implying that if the source of our morality does not spring from some divine source, then it is a form of moral relativism. That is the epistemological trap of absolutist thinking.

 

[eric]

Bully, get your head out of the westernized analytical Buddhist books and start living the faith, you give true Buddhist a bad name !

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Sorry, but I did not call another's faith BS. Most religions have, at their root, a sound moral philosophy. It is the rank weeds of metaphysics that have grown up around that philosophy that cause the problems. When moral laws are attributed to something outside, or beyond human experience, conflicts arise as to whose "experience" of this metaphysical entity is the "One True" source of that "experience". Strip away the metaphysics, and you have a workable moral philosophy. Cling to it, and you have strife and chaos.

My humble apologies, then. It must have been someone else who said "We don't need to worry about all of the metaphysical BS surrounding the idea of rewards and punishments in some mythical afterlife."

That BS happens to be very important to many people who have faith. It's not BS to them- it's truth.

And you are still less than moral.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
See, what you don't get is that socialist utopias always equal misery for all as the reward for action is removed, and the supposedly enlightened government degenerates into a bunch of corrupt governmental apparatchiks using the official repression of free markets to force everyone into black markets, exclusively controlled by them. Oh and the complete suppression of ideas of freedom and individual rights are a necessary requirement in leftist regime.

Freedom and indiviual liberty are prefereable to this. Yes some people will be richer than others for many varied reasons, that doesn't make it EVIL. IT's better than governmental bureaucrats having all the power for no other reason that they are the government and "they care", oh yeah, and they have the guns, and the right to use them to enforce their agenda. Frankly, I'd rather people like bill gates and donald trump run society. And that's the truth. Go to hell socialists.

No, that socialist utopias always result in misery for the many, with the few in power deriving the benfit is a given. Something socialists failed to realize, is that equal distribution of wealth in and of itself will do nothing to cure social and economic ills, unless accompanied by moral progress.

Freedom and individual liberty are very much preferable to a socialist utopia-cum-nightmare. However, no sane, healthy society can exist with total disregard for the individuals who are its constituents any more than individuals can meaningfully exist in total disregard for the society in which they live. For them to have any sort of meaningful existence, the rights and needs of the individual <b>and</b> must exist in a dynamic equilibrium, with neither sacrificed in the name of the other. This latter is a point missed by socialists and capitalists alike.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
My humble apologies, then. It must have been someone else who said "We don't need to worry about all of the metaphysical BS surrounding the idea of rewards and punishments in some mythical afterlife."

That BS happens to be very important to many people who have faith. It's not BS to them- it's truth.

And you are still less than moral.

To satisfy the PC crowd, I have removed the term 'BS' from the initial post.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by eric
Bully, get your head out of the westernized analytical Buddhist books and start living the faith, you give true Buddhist a bad name !

Actually, much of what I am writing about has its roots in the "Mulamadyamikakarika" by Nargarjuna.