Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[P F Tinmore]

So when the Egyptians, Syrians and Lebanese illegally migrated into the mandate of palestine they suddenly lost their original nationality and were granted a new nationality by WHO ? ? ? ? ?

Post war treaties and the British Mandate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel's Legal Right To Exist​

I have heard that talking point a gazillion times.

Never seen anything proving it ti be true.

 

[montelatici]

Well, an Inuit convert to Judaism is certainly not from the tribe of Judea. He is an Inuit that practices Judaism. Just as a European convert to Judaism is not from the tribe of Judea, he is a European that practices Judaism.

Just as an Inuit that converts to Sanatana Dharma doesn't miraculously become a Hindu. He/she becomes an Inuit that practices Sanatana Dharma he does not miraculously change to be from one of the Hindu tribes.

Give me a break, go study what it takes to convert to Judaism for men and women... and tell me would you circumcise yourself without anesthetics being 30 and take upon yourself 613 restrictions in addition to becoming one of the most persecuted and hated nations in history.

Your mistake is common- you look at Judaism through the eyes of Christianity and Islam, therefore can't grasp the simplest things.

I look at historical fact. You have been spoon fed a fantasy.

You can use those affirmations all you want, and the more you repeat it the more you yourself believe it.

FACT is your recent posting history shows manipulation of data, selective vision and total negligence of anything contradicting your POV- even when shown by the data in the same links you've posted.

No manipulation of data, no selection vision just facts. There are no "contradicting" facts, just Zionist propaganda that has been developed to attempt to justify the colonization/invasion of Palestine and the removal and/or oppression of the native Christian and Muslim inhabitants by European Zionists.

That's just a fact. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change the facts.

 

[MJB12741]

Well, an Inuit convert to Judaism is certainly not from the tribe of Judea. He is an Inuit that practices Judaism. Just as a European convert to Judaism is not from the tribe of Judea, he is a European that practices Judaism.

Just as an Inuit that converts to Sanatana Dharma doesn't miraculously become a Hindu. He/she becomes an Inuit that practices Sanatana Dharma he does not miraculously change to be from one of the Hindu tribes.

Give me a break, go study what it takes to convert to Judaism for men and women... and tell me would you circumcise yourself without anesthetics being 30 and take upon yourself 613 restrictions in addition to becoming one of the most persecuted and hated nations in history.

Your mistake is common- you look at Judaism through the eyes of Christianity and Islam, therefore can't grasp the simplest things.

I look at historical fact. You have been spoon fed a fantasy.

You can use those affirmations all you want, and the more you repeat it the more you yourself believe it.

FACT is your recent posting history shows manipulation of data, selective vision and total negligence of anything contradicting your POV- even when shown by the data in the same links you've posted.

No manipulation of data, no selection vision just facts. There are no "contradicting" facts, just Zionist propaganda that has been developed to attempt to justify the colonization/invasion of Palestine and the removal and/or oppression of the native Christian and Muslim inhabitants by European Zionists.

That's just a fact. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change the facts.

Here we go again. "Native Christian & Muslim inhabitants" when the Jews were there long before there were any Christians or Muslims. So who invaded who? Duh!

 

[Hollie]

Well, an Inuit convert to Judaism is certainly not from the tribe of Judea. He is an Inuit that practices Judaism. Just as a European convert to Judaism is not from the tribe of Judea, he is a European that practices Judaism.

Just as an Inuit that converts to Sanatana Dharma doesn't miraculously become a Hindu. He/she becomes an Inuit that practices Sanatana Dharma he does not miraculously change to be from one of the Hindu tribes.

Give me a break, go study what it takes to convert to Judaism for men and women... and tell me would you circumcise yourself without anesthetics being 30 and take upon yourself 613 restrictions in addition to becoming one of the most persecuted and hated nations in history.

Your mistake is common- you look at Judaism through the eyes of Christianity and Islam, therefore can't grasp the simplest things.

I look at historical fact. You have been spoon fed a fantasy.

You can use those affirmations all you want, and the more you repeat it the more you yourself believe it.

FACT is your recent posting history shows manipulation of data, selective vision and total negligence of anything contradicting your POV- even when shown by the data in the same links you've posted.

No manipulation of data, no selection vision just facts. There are no "contradicting" facts, just Zionist propaganda that has been developed to attempt to justify the colonization/invasion of Palestine and the removal and/or oppression of the native Christian and Muslim inhabitants by European Zionists.

That's just a fact. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change the facts.

Monty facts ™ tend to be suspect.

For example, why does anyone presume that Arab invaders from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon suddenly become a "native population" of some non-existent "country" you call Pal'istan.

Islamo-propaganda won't help with such nonsense.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, I would suspect a response like that.

Israel's Legal Right To Exist​

I have heard that talking point a gazillion times.

Never seen anything proving it ti be true.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Right to Exist" --- and --- the "Right to Self-Determination" are related variations of the same thing. The idea of a "Right" having some significant meaning is fictitious.

• "Existence" (Right to Exist) is a characteristic of a national authority established by the people. It is centered on the idea that the government having the ability to assumed the authority and establish the political control over a specific geo-political territory; and the ability to defend it.

• Self-Determination (the Right) is a characteristic of the people to recognize its existence and decide the decide their own destiny in the international order.
​

(COMMENT)

"Existence" is about nations (with the directions they take) and the "Self-Determination" is about the people (and the direction the people take).

I hold the belief that those that keep asking for "proof," have no true understanding of an evolving world of politics --- or the "reality" of the international community in which we live. In this case, Israel and each member nation of the Arab League are "tangible proof" of existence (you can actually reach-out and touch it). The diversity of different type of governments is evidence of self-Determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Eloy]

Well, an Inuit convert to Judaism is certainly not from the tribe of Judea. He is an Inuit that practices Judaism. Just as a European convert to Judaism is not from the tribe of Judea, he is a European that practices Judaism.

Just as an Inuit that converts to Sanatana Dharma doesn't miraculously become a Hindu. He/she becomes an Inuit that practices Sanatana Dharma he does not miraculously change to be from one of the Hindu tribes.

Give me a break, go study what it takes to convert to Judaism for men and women... and tell me would you circumcise yourself without anesthetics being 30 and take upon yourself 613 restrictions in addition to becoming one of the most persecuted and hated nations in history.

Your mistake is common- you look at Judaism through the eyes of Christianity and Islam, therefore can't grasp the simplest things.

I look at historical fact. You have been spoon fed a fantasy.

You can use those affirmations all you want, and the more you repeat it the more you yourself believe it.

FACT is your recent posting history shows manipulation of data, selective vision and total negligence of anything contradicting your POV- even when shown by the data in the same links you've posted.

No manipulation of data, no selection vision just facts. There are no "contradicting" facts, just Zionist propaganda that has been developed to attempt to justify the colonization/invasion of Palestine and the removal and/or oppression of the native Christian and Muslim inhabitants by European Zionists.

That's just a fact. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change the facts.

Here we go again. "Native Christian & Muslim inhabitants" when the Jews were there long before there were any Christians or Muslims. So who invaded who? Duh!

The Jews were a small minority and fat outnumbered by Arabs until the Zionists moved in during the last century. The Israelis live on stolen land.

 

[Hollie]

Give me a break, go study what it takes to convert to Judaism for men and women... and tell me would you circumcise yourself without anesthetics being 30 and take upon yourself 613 restrictions in addition to becoming one of the most persecuted and hated nations in history.

Your mistake is common- you look at Judaism through the eyes of Christianity and Islam, therefore can't grasp the simplest things.

I look at historical fact. You have been spoon fed a fantasy.

You can use those affirmations all you want, and the more you repeat it the more you yourself believe it.

FACT is your recent posting history shows manipulation of data, selective vision and total negligence of anything contradicting your POV- even when shown by the data in the same links you've posted.

No manipulation of data, no selection vision just facts. There are no "contradicting" facts, just Zionist propaganda that has been developed to attempt to justify the colonization/invasion of Palestine and the removal and/or oppression of the native Christian and Muslim inhabitants by European Zionists.

That's just a fact. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change the facts.

Here we go again. "Native Christian & Muslim inhabitants" when the Jews were there long before there were any Christians or Muslims. So who invaded who? Duh!

The Jews were a small minority and fat outnumbered by Arabs until the Zionists moved in during the last century. The Israelis live on stolen land.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to the various refutations to your slogans and clichés.

 

[Phoenall]

So when the Egyptians, Syrians and Lebanese illegally migrated into the mandate of palestine they suddenly lost their original nationality and were granted a new nationality by WHO ? ? ? ? ?

Post war treaties and the British Mandate.

What treaties and what British mandate state that illegal immigrants will get a new nationallity when they migrate illegally to the Mandate of palestine.

Britain was a Mandatory not the Lon mandate, it was not the one that brought about the mandate so had no such authority unless given by the LoN

Once again you confuse the issue deliberately so it meets with your POV

 

[rylah]

Well, an Inuit convert to Judaism is certainly not from the tribe of Judea. He is an Inuit that practices Judaism. Just as a European convert to Judaism is not from the tribe of Judea, he is a European that practices Judaism.

Just as an Inuit that converts to Sanatana Dharma doesn't miraculously become a Hindu. He/she becomes an Inuit that practices Sanatana Dharma he does not miraculously change to be from one of the Hindu tribes.

Give me a break, go study what it takes to convert to Judaism for men and women... and tell me would you circumcise yourself without anesthetics being 30 and take upon yourself 613 restrictions in addition to becoming one of the most persecuted and hated nations in history.

Your mistake is common- you look at Judaism through the eyes of Christianity and Islam, therefore can't grasp the simplest things.

I look at historical fact. You have been spoon fed a fantasy.

You can use those affirmations all you want, and the more you repeat it the more you yourself believe it.

FACT is your recent posting history shows manipulation of data, selective vision and total negligence of anything contradicting your POV- even when shown by the data in the same links you've posted.

No manipulation of data, no selection vision just facts. There are no "contradicting" facts, just Zionist propaganda that has been developed to attempt to justify the colonization/invasion of Palestine and the removal and/or oppression of the native Christian and Muslim inhabitants by European Zionists.

That's just a fact. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change the facts.

The length pali supporters will go...

So you post links without reading them, those links are shown to actually contradict what you tried to prove and all of a sudden they become "Zionist propaganda" ??

Btw you still haven't answered which tribes those "native Palestinians" belong to?

And that's exactly why you dance around comparing Christians and Muslims to Europeans- apples to oranges and clear manipulation.

 

[Phoenall]

Israel's Legal Right To Exist​

I have heard that talking point a gazillion times.

Never seen anything proving it ti be true.

UN charter and International laws that cover Israel's existence. Try the UN charter first for clarification, or read this



Resolution 181 laid a foundation within international law and diplomacy[76] for the creation of the state of Israel; as it was the first formal recognition by an international body of the legitimacy of a Jewish state, to exist within a partition of the territory along with an Arab state.

The UN followed the practice of the Peace Conference of Paris and the League of Nations regarding the creation of states.[77] Religious and minority rights were placed under the protection of the United Nations and recognition of the new states was conditioned upon acceptance of a constitutional plan of legal protections.[78][79] Israel acknowledged that obligation, and Israel's declaration of independence stated that the State of Israel would ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex, and guaranteed freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture. In the hearings before the Ad Hoc Political Committee that considered Israel's application for membership in the United Nations, Abba Eban said that the rights stipulated in section C. Declaration, chapters 1 and 2 of UN resolution 181(II) had been constitutionally embodied as the fundamental law of the state of Israel as required by the resolution.[80] The instruments that he cited were the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, and various cables and letters of confirmation addressed to the Secretary General. Eban's explanations and Israel's undertakings were noted in the text of General Assembly Resolution 273 (III) Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations, May 11, 1949.,[81] The British Mandate for Palestine expired on May 15, 1948, and the UK recognized Israeli independence eight months later.

Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations - Wikipedia




So you see Israel is legal while palestine is not

 

[Phoenall]

Well, an Inuit convert to Judaism is certainly not from the tribe of Judea. He is an Inuit that practices Judaism. Just as a European convert to Judaism is not from the tribe of Judea, he is a European that practices Judaism.

Just as an Inuit that converts to Sanatana Dharma doesn't miraculously become a Hindu. He/she becomes an Inuit that practices Sanatana Dharma he does not miraculously change to be from one of the Hindu tribes.

Give me a break, go study what it takes to convert to Judaism for men and women... and tell me would you circumcise yourself without anesthetics being 30 and take upon yourself 613 restrictions in addition to becoming one of the most persecuted and hated nations in history.

Your mistake is common- you look at Judaism through the eyes of Christianity and Islam, therefore can't grasp the simplest things.

I look at historical fact. You have been spoon fed a fantasy.

You can use those affirmations all you want, and the more you repeat it the more you yourself believe it.

FACT is your recent posting history shows manipulation of data, selective vision and total negligence of anything contradicting your POV- even when shown by the data in the same links you've posted.

No manipulation of data, no selection vision just facts. There are no "contradicting" facts, just Zionist propaganda that has been developed to attempt to justify the colonization/invasion of Palestine and the removal and/or oppression of the native Christian and Muslim inhabitants by European Zionists.

That's just a fact. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change the facts.

Then were is the mention of the Jewish inhabitants that were in the majority until the Jews from Europe migrated there at the request of the Ottomans ?

That is a deliberate omission to manipulate the facts to meet your POV

 

[Phoenall]

Give me a break, go study what it takes to convert to Judaism for men and women... and tell me would you circumcise yourself without anesthetics being 30 and take upon yourself 613 restrictions in addition to becoming one of the most persecuted and hated nations in history.

Your mistake is common- you look at Judaism through the eyes of Christianity and Islam, therefore can't grasp the simplest things.

I look at historical fact. You have been spoon fed a fantasy.

You can use those affirmations all you want, and the more you repeat it the more you yourself believe it.

FACT is your recent posting history shows manipulation of data, selective vision and total negligence of anything contradicting your POV- even when shown by the data in the same links you've posted.

No manipulation of data, no selection vision just facts. There are no "contradicting" facts, just Zionist propaganda that has been developed to attempt to justify the colonization/invasion of Palestine and the removal and/or oppression of the native Christian and Muslim inhabitants by European Zionists.

That's just a fact. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change the facts.

Here we go again. "Native Christian & Muslim inhabitants" when the Jews were there long before there were any Christians or Muslims. So who invaded who? Duh!

The Jews were a small minority and fat outnumbered by Arabs until the Zionists moved in during the last century. The Israelis live on stolen land.

So why does the Ottoman census show that the Jews were in the majority until the late part of the 19C when arab muslims flooded into palestine

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, I would suspect a response like that.

Israel's Legal Right To Exist​

I have heard that talking point a gazillion times.

Never seen anything proving it ti be true.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Right to Exist" --- and --- the "Right to Self-Determination" are related variations of the same thing. The idea of a "Right" having some significant meaning is fictitious.

• "Existence" (Right to Exist) is a characteristic of a national authority established by the people. It is centered on the idea that the government having the ability to assumed the authority and establish the political control over a specific geo-political territory; and the ability to defend it.

• Self-Determination (the Right) is a characteristic of the people to recognize its existence and decide the decide their own destiny in the international order.
​

(COMMENT)

"Existence" is about nations (with the directions they take) and the "Self-Determination" is about the people (and the direction the people take).

I hold the belief that those that keep asking for "proof," have no true understanding of an evolving world of politics --- or the "reality" of the international community in which we live. In this case, Israel and each member nation of the Arab League are "tangible proof" of existence (you can actually reach-out and touch it). The diversity of different type of governments is evidence of self-Determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

• "Existence" (Right to Exist) is a characteristic of a national authority established by the people.​

The government of Israel was created in the direct opposition of the vast majority of the people.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, I would suspect a response like that.

Israel's Legal Right To Exist​

I have heard that talking point a gazillion times.

Never seen anything proving it ti be true.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Right to Exist" --- and --- the "Right to Self-Determination" are related variations of the same thing. The idea of a "Right" having some significant meaning is fictitious.

• "Existence" (Right to Exist) is a characteristic of a national authority established by the people. It is centered on the idea that the government having the ability to assumed the authority and establish the political control over a specific geo-political territory; and the ability to defend it.

• Self-Determination (the Right) is a characteristic of the people to recognize its existence and decide the decide their own destiny in the international order.
​

(COMMENT)

"Existence" is about nations (with the directions they take) and the "Self-Determination" is about the people (and the direction the people take).

I hold the belief that those that keep asking for "proof," have no true understanding of an evolving world of politics --- or the "reality" of the international community in which we live. In this case, Israel and each member nation of the Arab League are "tangible proof" of existence (you can actually reach-out and touch it). The diversity of different type of governments is evidence of self-Determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

• "Existence" (Right to Exist) is a characteristic of a national authority established by the people.​

The government of Israel was created in the direct opposition of the vast majority of the people.

You mean the illegal immigrant arab muslims dont you, not the palestinian Jews who had a legal right to be there. No International law prior to 1967 grants illegal immigrants the right to decide what another nation can and cant do

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, I would suspect a response like that.

Israel's Legal Right To Exist​

I have heard that talking point a gazillion times.

Never seen anything proving it ti be true.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Right to Exist" --- and --- the "Right to Self-Determination" are related variations of the same thing. The idea of a "Right" having some significant meaning is fictitious.

• "Existence" (Right to Exist) is a characteristic of a national authority established by the people. It is centered on the idea that the government having the ability to assumed the authority and establish the political control over a specific geo-political territory; and the ability to defend it.

• Self-Determination (the Right) is a characteristic of the people to recognize its existence and decide the decide their own destiny in the international order.
​

(COMMENT)

"Existence" is about nations (with the directions they take) and the "Self-Determination" is about the people (and the direction the people take).

I hold the belief that those that keep asking for "proof," have no true understanding of an evolving world of politics --- or the "reality" of the international community in which we live. In this case, Israel and each member nation of the Arab League are "tangible proof" of existence (you can actually reach-out and touch it). The diversity of different type of governments is evidence of self-Determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

• "Existence" (Right to Exist) is a characteristic of a national authority established by the people.​

The government of Israel was created in the direct opposition of the vast majority of the people.

When you dishonestly and selectively make your own edits to the text, out of context, it's again clear that your agenda is one of dishonesty and deceit.

The part of the text you dishonestly and selectively purged was: "It is centered on the idea that the government having the ability to assumed the authority and establish the political control over a specific geo-political territory; and the ability to defend it."

There was no Pal'istanian government and no "country of Pal'istan" you have invented and insist existed at some time in the past. Your delusions are your own but no one else has any reason to accept them as anything but your delusions.

 

[Shusha]

So when the Egyptians, Syrians and Lebanese illegally migrated into the mandate of palestine they suddenly lost their original nationality and were granted a new nationality by WHO ? ? ? ? ?

Nobody had to grant it to them. According to monte, they magically became natives who had lived there for thousands of years.

 

[Shusha]

Israel's Legal Right To Exist​

I have heard that talking point a gazillion times.

Never seen anything proving it ti be true.

You continually post comments claiming that the people of Palestine have a right to self-determination. You continually claim that this right is inherent and inviolable and can not be abrogated.

Your own principled statements are enough for Israel's right to exist be true.

 

[Shusha]

The Jews were a small minority and fat outnumbered by Arabs until the Zionists moved in during the last century. The Israelis live on stolen land.

Do none of Team Palestine consider the objective points of their claims when they make statements like this?

Here Eloy is claiming that minorities have no rights, let alone equal rights. He is also claiming that expulsion from land and the consequent return to that land is theft, and therefore that invasion and conquest and ethnic cleansing leads to legitimate possession of territory.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a subjective impression based on an emotional perception.

• "Existence" (Right to Exist) is a characteristic of a national authority established by the people. It is centered on the idea that the government having the ability to assumed the authority and establish the political control over a specific geo-political territory; and the ability to defend it.​

​

The government of Israel was created in the direct opposition of the vast majority of the people.

(COMMENT)

You are acting as if, the ratio of Jews to Arabs (vast majority of the people) has some impact on the intent of the UN and the direction the recommendation of Resolution 181 (II). This has a limited application on influencing the decisions of the Allied Powers, the Powers which had the full rights and title to the territory. Well it does not. If it did, then all sorts of authoritative decrees would be out there. In fact, there is an enormous amount of non-binding, ambiguous, and unsupported emotional paper wars inflicting dangerously deep lacerations and cuts, that are independently fatal.

• The Jewish Agency coordinated with the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) shall instruct the Provisional Councils of Government of both the Arab and Jewish States, after their formation, to proceed to the establishment of administrative organs of government, central and local.

√ Unfortunately the Arab League aggression across the frontier prevented full compliance.​

• "Existence" IS NOT dependent on some proportionality or influence extended by a "majority." This is especially true under the conditions as presented by the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."​

In the case of a disagreement by inhabitants, it is not unusual for the parties concerned to engage in a Civil War or some other type conflict to resolved the dispute. Several of the Allied Powers experienced such disputes. Just to name a few:

• America
  • Revolutionary War (Modern United States and Canada), 1775-1784
  • American Civil War (United States), 1861–1865

• Japan
  • Boshin War (Japan), 1868–1869
  • Satsuma Rebellion (Japan), 1877

• War in the Vendée (France), 1793–1804; between Royalist and Republican forces, part of the French Revolutionary Wars

• Austrian Civil War, February 1934
• Spanish Civil War, 1936–1939
• Italian Civil War, 1943–1945

• Wars of the Three Kingdoms (England, Ireland, and Scotland),
  • Irish Confederate Wars, some parts of which were a civil war.[3]
  • Scotland in the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, to some extent a civil war, 1644–1652
  • English Civil War, 1642–1651
    • First English Civil War, 1642–1646
    • Second English Civil War, 1648–1649
    • Third English Civil War, 1650–1651

It should be noticed that many historians still consider the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict a typeof Civil War that has not been resolved. As a Civil War the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict might be considered more of an NIAC (Non-International Armed Conflict) as opposed to an International Armed Conflict (IAC).

IACs 'vs' NIACs​

The outcomes of a Civil War usually is the deciding factor as to the Status of government and territorial boundaries. But again, the political result (usually) has nothing to do with the desires of the proportional majority, but more on the outcome of the military confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R