israel:What is a true Jewish state???

[kvetch]

To me there are 2 possible definitions of a Jewish State

1) AN ETHICALLY JEWISH STATE

The Talmud (Shabbos 31a) records a famous incident involving the Sages Hillel and Shammai.

A gentile approached Shammai and made the following request:

"Convert me to Judaism on the condition that you teach me the entire Torah while I am standing on one leg."

Shammai did not approve of this request and chased the man away.

The gentile then approached Hillel with the same request.

Hillel responded that he would do so, and encapsulated the Torah into one statement:

What is hateful to you do not do to your neighbour.

A Jewish state based on THAT definition of Torah, I would whole heartedly support

As long as "neighbour" means ALL neighbours including Arabs and everyone and not just Jewish neighbours.

A "light unto all nations", indeed

2) AN ETHNICALLY JEWISH STATE

I deeply understand that for Israeli Jews to feel safe and secure in a troubled neighbourhood,

With all the past deep Jewish persecutions in Europe, and conflicts with the Arabs

Israell MUST have a permanent and large Jewish Majority.

For the forseeable future

Until there has been decades of true peace, at the very least.

That is a given

HOWEVER

This has all kinds of problems, unless it is based on the above ethical definition.

All non Jews are automatically and permanently 2nd class citizens, forever.

Harsh measures will and are being taken to preserve this Jewish Majority at all costs

Especially at the cost of true Jewish ethics

HOW CAN THIS DILEMMA BE RESOLVED?

HOW CAN ISRAEL BE BOTH ETHICALLY AND ETHNICALLY JEWISH

DISCUSS

SITTING ON ONE BUTTOCK ONLY

BUT NOT IN A HALF ASSED WAY

 

[kvetch]

is no-one even interested in exploring what a true jewish state might mean

and how to get there from here??

 

[irosie91]

no---it is too complex a question-------a better question would be WHAT IS A TRUE ISLAMIC STATE. We have examples in modern times for examination

 

[kvetch]

no---it is too complex a question-------a better question would be WHAT IS A TRUE ISLAMIC STATE. We have examples in modern times for examination

there's a great verse from the koran which all the anti jihadis quote

it says:

"if you save one life, you save the whole of humanity"

a state based on that..................ideally

 

[irosie91]

no it would be a good needlepoint for a hospital wall-----or as a gift to a nurse

 

[Roudy]

To me there are 2 possible definitions of a Jewish State

1) AN ETHICALLY JEWISH STATE

The Talmud (Shabbos 31a) records a famous incident involving the Sages Hillel and Shammai.

A gentile approached Shammai and made the following request:

"Convert me to Judaism on the condition that you teach me the entire Torah while I am standing on one leg."

Shammai did not approve of this request and chased the man away.

The gentile then approached Hillel with the same request.

Hillel responded that he would do so, and encapsulated the Torah into one statement:

What is hateful to you do not do to your neighbour.

A Jewish state based on THAT definition of Torah, I would whole heartedly support

As long as "neighbour" means ALL neighbours including Arabs and everyone and not just Jewish neighbours.

A "light unto all nations", indeed

2) AN ETHNICALLY JEWISH STATE

I deeply understand that for Israeli Jews to feel safe and secure in a troubled neighbourhood,

With all the past deep Jewish persecutions in Europe, and conflicts with the Arabs

Israell MUST have a permanent and large Jewish Majority.

For the forseeable future

Until there has been decades of true peace, at the very least.

That is a given

HOWEVER

This has all kinds of problems, unless it is based on the above ethical definition.

All non Jews are automatically and permanently 2nd class citizens, forever.

Harsh measures will and are being taken to preserve this Jewish Majority at all costs

Especially at the cost of true Jewish ethics

HOW CAN THIS DILEMMA BE RESOLVED?

HOW CAN ISRAEL BE BOTH ETHICALLY AND ETHNICALLY JEWISH

DISCUSS

SITTING ON ONE BUTTOCK ONLY

BUT NOT IN A HALF ASSED WAY

What is "true Islamic state" like the one Hamas wants to create and most Middle Eastern countries now have? One that follows barbaric filthy Shariah law, that turns a country into a shithole of savagery, oppression, persecution, and intolerance.

 

[Roudy]

no---it is too complex a question-------a better question would be WHAT IS A TRUE ISLAMIC STATE. We have examples in modern times for examination

there's a great verse from the koran which all the anti jihadis quote

it says:

"if you save one life, you save the whole of humanity"

a state based on that..................ideally

That verse is actually copied from the Talmud. You didn't think that illiterate terrorist prophet of Islam came up with that one on his own, did you? LOL

 

[kvetch]

no---it is too complex a question-------a better question would be WHAT IS A TRUE ISLAMIC STATE. We have examples in modern times for examination

there's a great verse from the koran which all the anti jihadis quote

it says:

"if you save one life, you save the whole of humanity"

a state based on that..................ideally

That verse is actually copied from the Talmud. You didn't think that illiterate terrorist prophet of Islam came up with that one on his own, did you? LOL

so was lots and lots of the koran, and sharia law, too based on torah and talmud

should pay you royalties for it

now put that hairdryer away quit shootin and kickin all the posters and be a good peaceful jew