Israel spraying toxins over Palestinian crops in Gaza

[Billo_Really]

YES BUT FIRING ILLEGAL WEAPONS AT ISRAEL IS NOT DEFENCE, IT IS A WAR CRIME AND AN ACT OF WAR

Got it yet you defend against an attack, you do not instigate an attack and claim it was defence.

Israel attacks Gaza 696 times.
Gaza fires 29 rockets.
Therefore, Gaza is the aggressor.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It appears that they can.

And when you put a pencil in a glass of water, it appears bent.

Is it?

So they don't exclude Palestinian fishermen from accessing those waters. Okay.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

IF Gaza was being attacked they would have the right to defend themselves. But they are not being attacked.

They are being blockaded in order to prevent them from making indiscriminate, illegal, belligerent attacks on innocent Israeli citizens. The way to end the blockade is to end the attacks. Easy peasy.

Are you really asking if Gaza has the right to try to win land by force? You might even want to phrase it as "win land back by force" but that is an entirely different question than whether or not they have a right to defend themselves. There is nothing to defend themselves FROM as they are not being attacked.

The blockade, is the cause of the attacks. It's Israel just being mean, like the spraying of their crops. And when they're not spraying crops, they're uprooting olive trees; and when they're not uprooting olive trees, they're shooting at farmers when they harvest. And when they're not shooting at farmers when they harvest, they're bulldozing homes of doctors. And if anyone gets in their way, they run them over with the dozer, stop and back up on to the body one more time, then continue their demolition.

The spraying of crops is just another brick in the wall for Israel deliberately trying to make the Palestinian's daily life a living hell, so they would go away. But that ain't gonna happen. Sooner or later, the world is going to put a stop to this, just like it did to Germany in WWII.

It's Israel just being mean, like the spraying of their crops.

Or responding to rocket attacks. Mean Israel just being mean.

 

[flacaltenn]

Evidently --- from the articles I posted --- both the EU and NATO agree that policing for smuggling in Gaza is not only LEGAL --- but necessary..

Answer my god-damn question!

"Do Gazan's have a right to defend themselves?"​

****!

Gazans currently have no recognized govt or credible leadership that is interested in abiding by acceptable international standards for commerce, customs or law. Until they do -- they are not a nation state. It is a territory with a vacuum of leadership and power. They NEED to be protected from abuse --- but they don't need anything but small arms and DEFENSIVE weapons.. What they need MORE than missiles or bomb-making materials is a plan for making Gazan life better..

 

[flacaltenn]

And their neighbors can certainly claim security concerns and take steps to PREVENT entrance of items that are forbidden by International agreements..

Including illegal humanitarian food?

You're so FOS!

NOT including food and exports of common goods. THAT's abuse. Which is why maybe --- it's a great idea for the EU or NATO to take control of the Gazan borders.. Because THERE --- Israel has someone to HOLD RESPONSIBLE if they don't control the dangerous smuggling.

That's why Israel abandoned plans to co-monitor the Rafah gate. Because they could TRUST the Egyptians not to jeopardize their security in the process. That's WHY being a responsible nation is so important.. A collection of "resistance fighters" can never be trusted to comply..

 

[flacaltenn]

Stabilize the Gazan political situation, .

You keep saying that, but every time they try, Israel attacks.

get some international support for a LEGIT government and NEGOTIATE for better definitions and border access. .

WTF you talking about "LEGIT" government?

Hamas won a fair and democratic election according to international standards.

Spray that in your crop circles.

If they are a legit government with a legal process and international credibility -- let them present EVIDENCE of the crop spraying and send out their best diplomats to gain support for a injunction against Israel..

Oh -- what you say?? They don't HAVE a legal process or international credibility or ACTUAL DIPLOMATS??

So sad.....

 

[flacaltenn]

Billo_Really , Do you really think that if the blockade was lifted today that the attacks from Gaza would stop?

There was a cease fire a year ago last August where they were to negotiate a truce. What happened to that?

Actually there has been a truce on the table for a decade now waiting for Israel to respond.

Cease fires are useless and tactical. What's needed is a strategic plan for developing Gaza as a peaceful nation state.

 

[Phoenall]

Billo_Really , Do you really think that if the blockade was lifted today that the attacks from Gaza would stop?

That is a perfect example of showing just how warped the Israeli narrative is.

Since the August 2014 ceasefire, there have been over 696 attacks on Gaza by the IDF; during that same period, only 29 rockets were fired from Gaza.

Yet, you are saying issue is the Gaza attacks?

IDF: 696 attacks
Gaza: 29 attacks
Therefore, the 29 attacks, is the problem.​

"Israeli forces’ attacks on the Gaza Strip are routine, targeting farmers, fishermen, and unarmed civilian protesters."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

IDF admits spraying herbicides inside the Gaza Strip

Farming is a threat to Israeli national security.

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

"Israeli warplanes bombed Gaza’s main agricultural experiment station, causing $300,000-worth of damages and destroying the station’s building, laboratories, vehicles and a large power generator. Israel seems insistent on keeping the station out of service, effectively stifling every Palestinian attempt to attain self-sufficiency or independence, even agriculturally."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

"Israeli occupation planes have sprayed crop-killing chemicals on farmlands across besieged Gaza Strip, killing off crops in the coastal enclave. It is the third time the Israeli occupation planes have targeted Gaza farms, killing massive amounts of crops..."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

The Israeli blockade, collectively punishes all 1.5 million Gazan's.

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

WRONG AGAIN as these are Israeli responces to Palestinian attacks in the west bank, Jerusalem and Israel. They are not breaches of the ceasefire with hamas as you claim from the source that you use. If a vessel enters Israeli waters it is a breach of the ceasefire, if a Palestinian comes too close to the boundary it is a breach of the ceasefire. If a Palestinian fires a weapon towards Israel it is replied to, if a palestini9an throws a petrol bomb at an Israeli it is replied to. The reason you never give your link anymore is because you saw how stupid some of the alleged attacks were and felt stupid for believing them.

For the record there have been over 100 rocket launches since 2014 by hamas showing that you are LYING

No terrorists pretending to be farmers are a threat to Israel, and encroaching on the buffer zone is a breach of the ceasefire.

The herbicides are to keep the ground clear of vegetation so the Palestinians cant hide in ambush for an Israeli child to pass close by.

How about a link from another source to substantiate the polemic report from global research that admits it does not report the truth but what it wants to be the truth.




No the problem is the constant breaches of International laws, war crimes, crimes against humanity and infringements of the UN charter and resolutions that the Palestinians carry out day in and day out. What you deem to be self defence against Israeli actions

 

[P F Tinmore]

Billo_Really , Do you really think that if the blockade was lifted today that the attacks from Gaza would stop?

There was a cease fire a year ago last August where they were to negotiate a truce. What happened to that?

Actually there has been a truce on the table for a decade now waiting for Israel to respond.

Cease fires are useless and tactical. What's needed is a strategic plan for developing Gaza as a peaceful nation state.

Indeed, that is the Palestinian's plan for a truce. It is Israel that rejects that vision.

 

[flacaltenn]

And their neighbors can certainly claim security concerns and take steps to PREVENT entrance of items that are forbidden by International agreements..

Including illegal humanitarian food?

You're so FOS!

You are full of crap as gaza receives 2200 kcal per person from international sources for every inhabitant every day. That is at least 500kcal over the recommended daily amount as declared by the World Health Organisation. This is supplemented by fresh fruit, meat and vegetables produced in gaza. The figures are based on the population numbers as given by UNWRA and hamas, and could be out in favour of the Palestinians by 20%. ( meaning that they get 20% more food than is needed )

Now what illegal humanitarian food is stopped from going into gaza ?

Point is -- the list of food shouldn't read like a Red Cross lunch menu.. There is too much micro-management of essential goods. I can see restricting Fava Beans so that you can't make ricin or other bio/chem items. I can even see restricting CANNED goods to some extent because they pose a HUGE inspection problem. But other than that -- there are what appears to be "mean and arbitrary" finnagling of the impound lists..

 

[Phoenall]

International maritime law says they can, and like the rest of team Palestine billo ignores any International law that supports Israel. Then spreads lies to cover the facts

State the specific international maritime law, that says Israel has jurisdiction in international waters.

Or give me any law, that says anyone, has jurisdiction in international waters, you fucked up little troll.

I believe Roccor gave this a month ago and you did not reply then because it destroyed your argument. The fact that Israel followed the UNCLOS recommendations to the letter by issuing a policy document setting out the reasons for the blockade and the area to be blockaded shows that the law was upheld. If Israel was in breach of these laws then the ICC/ICJ would have made a judgement and set in place a corridor for the transportation of humanitarian aid.



Try this for what jurisdiction all nations have on the high seas, it might make you wish you had never started this argument.



The Straight Dope: In international waters, are you beyond the reach of the law?

 

[Phoenall]

Billo_Really , Do you really think that if the blockade was lifted today that the attacks from Gaza would stop?

There was a cease fire a year ago last August where they were to negotiate a truce. What happened to that?

Actually there has been a truce on the table for a decade now waiting for Israel to respond.

Cease fires are useless and tactical. What's needed is a strategic plan for developing Gaza as a peaceful nation state.

Indeed, that is the Palestinian's plan for a truce. It is Israel that rejects that vision.

So when the Palestinians declare that they will never give up violence and terrorism as a means to destroy Israel and wipe out the Jews that is not a rejection of a stable peace ?

We all know what "peace" the Palestinians are aluding to, one where they are the rulers and the non muslims are their slaves in an Islamic caliphate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Billo_Really , Do you really think that if the blockade was lifted today that the attacks from Gaza would stop?

There was a cease fire a year ago last August where they were to negotiate a truce. What happened to that?

Actually there has been a truce on the table for a decade now waiting for Israel to respond.

Cease fires are useless and tactical. What's needed is a strategic plan for developing Gaza as a peaceful nation state.

Indeed, that is the Palestinian's plan for a truce. It is Israel that rejects that vision.

So when the Palestinians declare that they will never give up violence and terrorism as a means to destroy Israel and wipe out the Jews that is not a rejection of a stable peace ?

We all know what "peace" the Palestinians are aluding to, one where they are the rulers and the non muslims are their slaves in an Islamic caliphate.

You read too much propaganda.

 

[Phoenall]

And their neighbors can certainly claim security concerns and take steps to PREVENT entrance of items that are forbidden by International agreements..

Including illegal humanitarian food?

You're so FOS!

You are full of crap as gaza receives 2200 kcal per person from international sources for every inhabitant every day. That is at least 500kcal over the recommended daily amount as declared by the World Health Organisation. This is supplemented by fresh fruit, meat and vegetables produced in gaza. The figures are based on the population numbers as given by UNWRA and hamas, and could be out in favour of the Palestinians by 20%. ( meaning that they get 20% more food than is needed )

Now what illegal humanitarian food is stopped from going into gaza ?

Point is -- the list of food shouldn't read like a Red Cross lunch menu.. There is too much micro-management of essential goods. I can see restricting Fava Beans so that you can't make ricin or other bio/chem items. I can even see restricting CANNED goods to some extent because they pose a HUGE inspection problem. But other than that -- there are what appears to be "mean and arbitrary" finnagling of the impound lists..

You need to know the secondary use of foods to be able to understand why they are on the banned list. Chocolate has a high sugar content and so can be used to make explosives. Any powder like flour can be used as an incendiary, which is why flour mills are earthed against static discharge) I had the argument on here about resin used in the repair of boats, and the members of team Palestine could not understand that it was an accelerant and could be used in bomb making. There is a list accepted by international consent that shows all single and dual use products that are banned, Israel allows over half of the contents to be sent to gaza.

 

[Phoenall]

Billo_Really , Do you really think that if the blockade was lifted today that the attacks from Gaza would stop?

There was a cease fire a year ago last August where they were to negotiate a truce. What happened to that?

Actually there has been a truce on the table for a decade now waiting for Israel to respond.

Cease fires are useless and tactical. What's needed is a strategic plan for developing Gaza as a peaceful nation state.

Indeed, that is the Palestinian's plan for a truce. It is Israel that rejects that vision.

So when the Palestinians declare that they will never give up violence and terrorism as a means to destroy Israel and wipe out the Jews that is not a rejection of a stable peace ?

We all know what "peace" the Palestinians are aluding to, one where they are the rulers and the non muslims are their slaves in an Islamic caliphate.

You read too much propaganda.

Are you saying that Palestine puts out propaganda as that was the source for these remarks

 

[Phoenall]

YES BUT FIRING ILLEGAL WEAPONS AT ISRAEL IS NOT DEFENCE, IT IS A WAR CRIME AND AN ACT OF WAR

Got it yet you defend against an attack, you do not instigate an attack and claim it was defence.

Israel attacks Gaza 696 times.
Gaza fires 29 rockets.
Therefore, Gaza is the aggressor.

Yes because the Israeli's responded to other acts of violence by Palestinians, provide the link to your claim so we can once again show that all but 10 of the actions were not aimed at gaza. Those were Israel defending against Palestinian attacks, they were not attacks on gaza

 

[Shusha]

Billo_Really , Do you really think that if the blockade was lifted today that the attacks from Gaza would stop?

That is a perfect example of showing just how warped the Israeli narrative is.

Since the August 2014 ceasefire, there have been over 696 attacks on Gaza by the IDF; during that same period, only 29 rockets were fired from Gaza.

Yet, you are saying issue is the Gaza attacks?

IDF: 696 attacks
Gaza: 29 attacks
Therefore, the 29 attacks, is the problem.​

"Israeli forces’ attacks on the Gaza Strip are routine, targeting farmers, fishermen, and unarmed civilian protesters."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

IDF admits spraying herbicides inside the Gaza Strip

Farming is a threat to Israeli national security.

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

"Israeli warplanes bombed Gaza’s main agricultural experiment station, causing $300,000-worth of damages and destroying the station’s building, laboratories, vehicles and a large power generator. Israel seems insistent on keeping the station out of service, effectively stifling every Palestinian attempt to attain self-sufficiency or independence, even agriculturally."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

"Israeli occupation planes have sprayed crop-killing chemicals on farmlands across besieged Gaza Strip, killing off crops in the coastal enclave. It is the third time the Israeli occupation planes have targeted Gaza farms, killing massive amounts of crops..."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

The Israeli blockade, collectively punishes all 1.5 million Gazan's.

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

Nice dodge. Answer my question: Do you think the rockets and all other attacks will stop if the blockade to Gaza is lifted? Yes or no?

As for the rest of your nonsense:

Gaza has attacked innocent Israeli citizens with illegal, belligerent, indiscriminate rocket fire more than 20,000 times since Israel disengaged and ethnically cleansed Gaza of all Jews. IN response to those attacks, Israel has set up a security perimeter in order to protect its citizens, something they are morally and legally obligated to do.

According to your article, the Palestinians have breached that security perimeter 725 times since August of 2014, and Israel has responded appropriately and with restraint. These breeches are significantly fewer than that thousands of rocket attacks launched in 2013 and early 2014, which demonstrates that the Israel's response and its security perimeter has been effective in deterring and preventing attacks.

Let's be clear here: ANY attack on Israeli civilians is a problem. It doesn't matter if its one attack, or twenty nine attacks or 20,000 attacks. If you attack Israeli civilians its a problem. And the security perimeter will remain in place until the attacks stop. Until there are NO MORE attacks. Until an end-of-conflict agreement is signed. Not a truce, an end-of-conflict agreement.

If the Palestinians want peace, they need to give peace.

All this talk of spraying toxins has been shown, on this thread, to have a single root source and appears to all reasonable people to be bullshit -- Palestinian propaganda to make them appear victimized when they have not been (in this case). Its nothing but demonization of Israel by people, including yourself, who should know better.

Sadly, you are so biased and blinded by your anti-Israel (anti-Jewish?) perspective, that you can't see the obvious -- Gaza is the aggressor. They are not defending, they are attacking. Gaza has attacked Israel 33 times since the "truce" in August of 2014. (Its actually 33, your article only points out the 29 attacks Israel responded to). Additionally, they have breached the perimeter 696 times. Hamas continues to loudly proclaim that it will not have peace with Israel and it will keep attacking.

If Gaza really wanted to end the blockade they would just stop attacking. You and I both know that isn't the goal.

Now, answer my question.

 

[flacaltenn]

And their neighbors can certainly claim security concerns and take steps to PREVENT entrance of items that are forbidden by International agreements..

Including illegal humanitarian food?

You're so FOS!

You are full of crap as gaza receives 2200 kcal per person from international sources for every inhabitant every day. That is at least 500kcal over the recommended daily amount as declared by the World Health Organisation. This is supplemented by fresh fruit, meat and vegetables produced in gaza. The figures are based on the population numbers as given by UNWRA and hamas, and could be out in favour of the Palestinians by 20%. ( meaning that they get 20% more food than is needed )

Now what illegal humanitarian food is stopped from going into gaza ?

Point is -- the list of food shouldn't read like a Red Cross lunch menu.. There is too much micro-management of essential goods. I can see restricting Fava Beans so that you can't make ricin or other bio/chem items. I can even see restricting CANNED goods to some extent because they pose a HUGE inspection problem. But other than that -- there are what appears to be "mean and arbitrary" finnagling of the impound lists..

You need to know the secondary use of foods to be able to understand why they are on the banned list. Chocolate has a high sugar content and so can be used to make explosives. Any powder like flour can be used as an incendiary, which is why flour mills are earthed against static discharge) I had the argument on here about resin used in the repair of boats, and the members of team Palestine could not understand that it was an accelerant and could be used in bomb making. There is a list accepted by international consent that shows all single and dual use products that are banned, Israel allows over half of the contents to be sent to gaza.

This is all another topic for certain. But it's not realistic to embargo sugar and flour. OR chocolates with hardly ANY sugar content. It needs to be smart and rational. Not stupid and mean.

Just like the topic of this THIS THREAD needs evidence -- you also need evidence of flour and sugar bombs to make a case for absolute embargoes of these substances. Let's do this in one of the MANY "Gaza embargo" threads that already exist..

I'm still interested in any evidence for THIS OP that would be acceptable in a court of law..

 

[flacaltenn]

Billo_Really , Do you really think that if the blockade was lifted today that the attacks from Gaza would stop?

That is a perfect example of showing just how warped the Israeli narrative is.

Since the August 2014 ceasefire, there have been over 696 attacks on Gaza by the IDF; during that same period, only 29 rockets were fired from Gaza.

Yet, you are saying issue is the Gaza attacks?

IDF: 696 attacks
Gaza: 29 attacks
Therefore, the 29 attacks, is the problem.​

"Israeli forces’ attacks on the Gaza Strip are routine, targeting farmers, fishermen, and unarmed civilian protesters."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

IDF admits spraying herbicides inside the Gaza Strip

Farming is a threat to Israeli national security.

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

"Israeli warplanes bombed Gaza’s main agricultural experiment station, causing $300,000-worth of damages and destroying the station’s building, laboratories, vehicles and a large power generator. Israel seems insistent on keeping the station out of service, effectively stifling every Palestinian attempt to attain self-sufficiency or independence, even agriculturally."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

"Israeli occupation planes have sprayed crop-killing chemicals on farmlands across besieged Gaza Strip, killing off crops in the coastal enclave. It is the third time the Israeli occupation planes have targeted Gaza farms, killing massive amounts of crops..."

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

The Israeli blockade, collectively punishes all 1.5 million Gazan's.

Yet, the 29 rocket attacks are the problem.​

Nice dodge. Answer my question: Do you think the rockets and all other attacks will stop if the blockade to Gaza is lifted? Yes or no?

As for the rest of your nonsense:

Gaza has attacked innocent Israeli citizens with illegal, belligerent, indiscriminate rocket fire more than 20,000 times since Israel disengaged and ethnically cleansed Gaza of all Jews. IN response to those attacks, Israel has set up a security perimeter in order to protect its citizens, something they are morally and legally obligated to do.

According to your article, the Palestinians have breached that security perimeter 725 times since August of 2014, and Israel has responded appropriately and with restraint. These breeches are significantly fewer than that thousands of rocket attacks launched in 2013 and early 2014, which demonstrates that the Israel's response and its security perimeter has been effective in deterring and preventing attacks.

Let's be clear here: ANY attack on Israeli civilians is a problem. It doesn't matter if its one attack, or twenty nine attacks or 20,000 attacks. If you attack Israeli civilians its a problem. And the security perimeter will remain in place until the attacks stop. Until there are NO MORE attacks. Until an end-of-conflict agreement is signed. Not a truce, an end-of-conflict agreement.

If the Palestinians want peace, they need to give peace.

All this talk of spraying toxins has been shown, on this thread, to have a single root source and appears to all reasonable people to be bullshit -- Palestinian propaganda to make them appear victimized when they have not been (in this case). Its nothing but demonization of Israel by people, including yourself, who should know better.

Sadly, you are so biased and blinded by your anti-Israel (anti-Jewish?) perspective, that you can't see the obvious -- Gaza is the aggressor. They are not defending, they are attacking. Gaza has attacked Israel 33 times since the "truce" in August of 2014. (Its actually 33, your article only points out the 29 attacks Israel responded to). Additionally, they have breached the perimeter 696 times. Hamas continues to loudly proclaim that it will not have peace with Israel and it will keep attacking.

If Gaza really wanted to end the blockade they would just stop attacking. You and I both know that isn't the goal.

Now, answer my question.

The problem with that position Shusha is that many or all of our pro-Pali buds here believe it is THE DUTY of Gazans to attack Israel. Some have even extended the obligation of fighting and dying against Israel to the KIDS of Palis.. That applies also to the constant barrage of "ACCUSATIONS" like this OP that are not supported by firm evidence. An unfounded assertion IS a form of attack. Is it not??

Until the duty to drive Israel into the sea is rejected ---- all manner of sanctions and embargoes are gonna generally be validated by the world..

 

[Weatherman2020]

Putting aside the usual rhetoric...

What reason could Israel have of damaging crops of Palestinians in Gaza?

I'm interested to hear possible reasons...

Israel spraying toxins over Palestinian crops in Gaza

And not for the first time...

‘No-Grow Zone’: Israel Admits to Spraying Poisons Inside Gaza Strip

In Israel I've eaten with Muslims in their restaurants, bought items in Muslim stores, watched Muslims going in and out of mosques freely. Muslims hold parliament seats, serve in the Israeli military.
When I go into the West Bank, no Jews allowed. Only a handful of Christians left in the West Bank. I can't even go into Gaza, not safe for anyone.

Why?