Israel Should Just Employ the Geneva Conventions

Well, the Palestinian resistance are not different than the ANC and many other past and present national liberation organizations. Why you insist on demanding a different behavior of the Palestinians is puzzling.

Well, actually, you're befuddled. The Hamas Charter is a look into the gaping maw of islamo-fascism. The Charter speaks specifically to the re-conquest of all lands under control of the Infidel and speaks specifically to the islamo-concept of waqf.

In Arabic, waqf can literally mean prevention, restraint, or retention. In Islam, a waqf is any property that has been given for the benefit of Moslems, in perpetuity, and to please muhammud (swish). It is essentially making land, or other material, muhammud's (swish) property, not to be controlled by anyone. It is an important part of sharia law, and has several purposes. In this context, we are concerned with its ramifications in connection with land—particularly Israeli land.

In Islam, the war of jihad is holy (although it is not seen as war by Moslems) because it is for the purpose of expanding muhammud's domain. It is commanded of the faithful, and it is an honor as well as a duty. According to the sharia, territories which are gained through jihad become waqf, and cannot thereafter be given up. They become, literally, an inseverable part of muhammud's dominion, for the sole welfare of the ummah (the Moslem community). If territories acquired by Islam are taken by infidels, they must be retaken in jihad—today, tomorrow, sooner or later. It is a religious obligation.

Your usual attempts to equate Islam's jihad with a "resistance" movement is both false and ignorant.

So somehow, the Palestinian resistance movement is specifically different than other resistance movements such as the Algerian resistance for example. I have read the Hamas Covenant, and I can't find the part where it states anything about the reconquest of "all lands" under control of the infidel. It talks about raising its banner over Palestine and defeating the Zionist invader. If you can find the statement you refer to please point it out, here is a link to the document:

The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

In short, it does not differ at all from the Likud Charter, Likud also being a political party like Hamas to wit:

"a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."

Original Party Platform of the Likud Party | Jewish Virtual Library

So both extremist parties, the Palestinian one and the Jewish one want all the land. What a surprise.
You can do what you usually do - hope to plead ignorance, but that won't help you.

You need to keep up with lessons at your madrassah when such Islamist concepts as waqf and jihad are discussed. As you're rocking back and forth reciting your Koranic verses, spend some time and read the Hamas Charter. Listen to what the various Islamic terrorist organizations are babbling about and understand that actions speak with the utmost clarity.
 
Hollie, et al,

This is a question with two-sides.

Well actually, the Islamic terrorists of Hamas have the "izzy brigades" as its armed wing. So yes, there is an Islamic terrorist army, one of cowards, or rather, Arabs-Moslems.

Even so, no one expects your Islamic terrorist heroes to wear uniforms when they attack Israel. It makes for a better propaganda campaign fir them to hide behind women and children as Israel retaliates and use the bodies of civilians for cheap currency on the nightly broadcast from al-jizz.
(COMMENT)

Who are the parties to the conflict. This makes a big difference.
• To be an "armed force," there must be a "chain of command." This becomes an issue with the chaos of the State of Palestine 1988 Government. Does the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) answer to the central government; or not?

∆ The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades
∆ Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine [AKA: Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)]
∆ Al-Quds Brigades or the Jerusalem Brigades, of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
• The importance of this is these non shall be subject to an internal disciplinary system which, ' inter alia ', shall enforce compliance with the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict. This is critical in the ability to enforce Article 51 criteria which the international community considers indiscriminate attacks on civilian populations and the use of human shields as illegal under international law.​
Whenever the Palestinians incorporates a paramilitary or armed law enforcement agency into its armed forces (including militia and volunteer forces) it shall so notify the other Parties to the conflict.
Article 1 of the Hague Regulations provides that the laws, rights and duties of war apply; fulfilling four conditions:

1. To be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
2. To have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance;
3. To carry arms openly; and
4. To conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
In countries where militia or volunteer corps constitute the army, or form part of it, they are included under the denomination "army."​
There is no central government authority in the Government of Palestine in which all the Jihadist, Insurgent, Terrorist, or Asymmetric Forces take orders from and are responsible for these forces. (See Item #1)

While in Palestinian Parade cases, these opposing forces meet Item #2 and 3 - Uniform Criteria, it is not clear at all that while conducting military operations in densely populated areas of Gaza, that is is true.

(CLEAR)

In the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, there are actually two separate and distinct Palestines. There is the governing body of Gaza, and there is the governing the West Bank. Nowhere is it more clear than in the command and control of Hostile Arab Palestinian Forces (the generic name for all the various jihadist, insurgents, terrorist and asymmetric activities). It is verifiable by asking one question:

• When rockets and mortars are being fired from Gaza into Israel, --- what central authority can order operators to cease-fire?
Most Respectfully,
R

Thought-provoking, Rocco.

I suppose there's something of an issue with applying Hague convention proscriptions of "conventional" warfare to Islamic terrorism. I'll make the point that Islamic thought has for centuries divided the world into Dar al-Islam (the House of Submission) and Dar al-Harb (The House of War). Islam and its allegiants have always regarded themselves as at war with the rest of us. It's a fundamental aspect of Islamic doctrine well supported by the koran, the various ahadith, and the proclamations of imams and Islamic scholars.

Islamic terrorism is the spearhead force for Islam's worldwide jihad. The ever growing numbers of Moslems who've been allowed ingress to Western nations are the forces in echelon -- activists willing to riot and demonstrate -- and forces of occupation -- large numbers of Moslems concentrated into exclaves in which Islamist ideology rules de facto. Their logistical support is provided by the twenty-two or so nations currently under Islamic regimes, and by covert sympathizers in many other lands.

Finally.... finally, to get to your comments, I would suggest that Hamas meets the requirement of a central government (acknowledging your observation that there are two - competing governments in the disputed territories) as Hamas was an elected governing body.

The "chain of command" requirement is a bit more difficult to quantify. Whether the islamic terrorist groups you noted:

The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades
Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine [AKA: Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)]
Al-Quds Brigades or the Jerusalem Brigades, of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)

are subordinate to some Islamic Terrorist General Staff somewhere In the bowels of Hamas planning out attacks with completely conscious, completely intentional purposes is unlikely. If the Islamic terrorists and their dispatchers within Hamas have an articulated theory of warfare, it's more likely to be Inshallah (cf. the Latin Deus vult) than any version of the above.

Regarding the Hague regulations you posted:

Article 1 of the Hague Regulations provides that the laws, rights and duties of war apply; fulfilling four conditions:

1. To be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
2. To have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance;
3. To carry arms openly; and
4. To conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.


1. As applied against the islamic terrorist groups noted above, not fulfilled

2. Not fulfilled. Noting however, the ability of various islamic terrorist groups Hamas, the "Hizzbullies", etc., to somehow manage the means to acquire uniforms for Islamic terrorist parades.

3. Requirement fulfilled.

4. Not fulfiled.

To address the following:

  1. one question:

• When rockets and mortars are being fired from Gaza into Israel, --- what central authority can order operators to cease-fire?



It appears that there is no such central authority. And, I think more importantly, whatever we may wish to call a central authority as it relates to Hamas as a "governing body", we must also understand that Hamas materially supports and promotes rockets and mortars being fired from Gaza into Israel. As such, they are as complicit in acts of Islamic terrorism as the groups noted previously.

Warfare by way of islamic terrorism works by way of an infiltration-oriented army vs. any conventional land war between nation-states. The key to confronting islamic terrorism is to understand that Hague Conventions of war don't necessarily apply in an era of global islamic terrorism. There needs to be a certain removing of the intellectual and emotional barriers that cause us to insist that Islamic terrorism is ideologically distasteful to the great majority of Moslems and has nothing to do with Islam per se.
• When rockets and mortars are being fired from Gaza into Israel, ---​

Say so. Nobody has proven that to be true.
 
Islamic terrorism carried out by hostile Muslims that have invaded Europe has no logical connection to a national resistance movement resisting a European invader in Palestine. The European Jews invaded Palestine just as the North African and Middle Eastern Muslims are invading Europe. Were I a European, I certainly would resist Muslims that intended to colonize and create an Islamic state in Europe, just as the Christians and Muslims have resisted the colonization by Europeans and the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

I can't see why the fanatics can't understand a dynamic that is so clear to anyone that is a neutral.

You are daft

latest


There can be no national resistance movement when there is no nation or nationality involved.

European returnees make up roughly 30% of the Judaic population vs the nearly 95% of Arab Muslims that colonized the fledgling Israel in the early to mid 20th century.

200514-4662-uab4c-a.jpg


I can't see why the fanatics can't understand a dynamic that is so clear to anyone that is a neutral.

The simple reality is that Israel should toughen up a little and enforce the GC
 
I thought we were discussing Israel/Palestine. I read the Hamas Covenant, it appears you have not. It also appears you haven't read the Likud Charter.

As far as my thoughts on Islamic invasion, you can see an example here in the proper Forum Section:

Should Belgium Take Measures Like Syria Against Islamic Terrorists ?

Of course I was called a bigot. But then I only deal in facts, unlike you Zionist propagandists.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you have made a mistake here.

UN Resolution 194 of 1948. Article 12.4 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also states that: ‘No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of their right to enter his

Article 3

The following shall be deemed to be Jordanian nationals:

Article 3

The following shall be deemed to be Jordanian nationals:

(1)Any person who has acquired Jordanian nationality or a Jordanian passport under the Jordanian Nationality Law, 1928, as amended, Law No. 6 of 1954 or this Law;​
----------------------
The Jordanian Nationality Law of 1954 had reaffirmed the status of Jordanian citizens on these residents of the West Bank, which was annexed to Jordan in 1950. Here, the conferment of Jordanian nationality had no effect under international law because Jordan had no right whatsoever to annex that part of Palestine.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf
(COMMENT)

UN Resolution 194 (III) does not speak to Citizenship or Nationality; not is it binding or law.

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) does not speak to the power of a sovereign to dissolve parliament and break all ties with the West Bank. No does is speak to the power of a Sovereign to annul any given law, to include the Nationality Law of 1954. I'm not even sure what the status is of the 1954 Law (half century old now).

I don't think the Hashemite Kingdom permits or entertains the interpretation of their immigration decisions. Generally speaking, the first wave of Palestinians came to Jordan in 1948; and Jordan recognized them, under the UN Convention and Protocols relation to the Status of Refugees, as refugees. The second big wave of Palestinians came after the 1967 War. The Hashemite Kingdom made a decision to consider these Palestinians as "Displaced Persons;" a distinct made when the King announced the 1988 disengagement from the West Bank.

EXCERPT: The Status of Palestinians in Jordan and the Anomaly of Holding a Jordanian Passport said:
Jordanian Citizenship
In Jordan, not all passports grant the same privileges. Following the 1988 judicial and administrative disengagement from the occupied territories, new regulations were enacted that rendered the passports of Palestinians living in the West Bank temporary [4]. In practical terms, this designation meant that the new temporary passports were now only valid as a travel document–it no longer conferred citizenship and it no longer had a national number. This situation created an anomaly, “a counterintuitive result whereby the holders of a Passport [with no national number] have far fewer rights (in fact none) compared to the holder of a mere [Jordanian] Identity Card, which includes a national number” [4]. To better understand the difference between a Jordanian holding a passport with a national number and one that possesses a temporary passport without a number, it is important to examine a few key instances in which basic rights are violated.
SOURCE: The Status of Palestinians in Jordan and the Anomaly of Holding a Jordanian Passport

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Islamic terrorism carried out by hostile Muslims that have invaded Europe has no logical connection to a national resistance movement resisting a European invader in Palestine. The European Jews invaded Palestine just as the North African and Middle Eastern Muslims are invading Europe. Were I a European, I certainly would resist Muslims that intended to colonize and create an Islamic state in Europe, just as the Christians and Muslims have resisted the colonization by Europeans and the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

I can't see why the fanatics can't understand a dynamic that is so clear to anyone that is a neutral.

You are daft

latest


There can be no national resistance movement when there is no nation or nationality involved.

European returnees make up roughly 30% of the Judaic population vs the nearly 95% of Arab Muslims that colonized the fledgling Israel in the early to mid 20th century.

200514-4662-uab4c-a.jpg


I can't see why the fanatics can't understand a dynamic that is so clear to anyone that is a neutral.

The simple reality is that Israel should toughen up a little and enforce the GC

Please note moderators. Boston is spamming his made up Hasbara chart which is false and without a link to the source. I then reply with the facts and the source which proves that more than 90% of the migrants between 1920 and 1945 were Jews:

upload_2016-3-26_20-56-40.webp


A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University
 
I thought we were discussing Israel/Palestine. I read the Hamas Covenant, it appears you have not. It also appears you haven't read the Likud Charter.

As far as my thoughts on Islamic invasion, you can see an example here in the proper Forum Section:

Should Belgium Take Measures Like Syria Against Islamic Terrorists ?

Of course I was called a bigot. But then I only deal in facts, unlike you Zionist propagandists.
Some of us were discussing Israel/Pal'istan. You were flailing your Poms Poms for Islamic terrorists.

Read the Hamas Charter. When you come back, raise your hand to ask a question. Your Islamist propaganda is an annoyance.
 
Last edited:
Islamic terrorism carried out by hostile Muslims that have invaded Europe has no logical connection to a national resistance movement resisting a European invader in Palestine. The European Jews invaded Palestine just as the North African and Middle Eastern Muslims are invading Europe. Were I a European, I certainly would resist Muslims that intended to colonize and create an Islamic state in Europe, just as the Christians and Muslims have resisted the colonization by Europeans and the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

I can't see why the fanatics can't understand a dynamic that is so clear to anyone that is a neutral.

You are daft

latest


There can be no national resistance movement when there is no nation or nationality involved.

European returnees make up roughly 30% of the Judaic population vs the nearly 95% of Arab Muslims that colonized the fledgling Israel in the early to mid 20th century.

200514-4662-uab4c-a.jpg


I can't see why the fanatics can't understand a dynamic that is so clear to anyone that is a neutral.

The simple reality is that Israel should toughen up a little and enforce the GC



+1.
"There can be no national resistance movement when there is no nation or nationality involved."

Great observation!

Instead, we're given "Islamist resistance movement".

Islam's gee-had knows no territorial boundaries or passage of time. It's about making the religion of Muhammud (swish), imposed on all.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you have made a mistake here.

UN Resolution 194 of 1948. Article 12.4 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also states that: ‘No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of their right to enter his

Article 3

The following shall be deemed to be Jordanian nationals:

Article 3

The following shall be deemed to be Jordanian nationals:

(1)Any person who has acquired Jordanian nationality or a Jordanian passport under the Jordanian Nationality Law, 1928, as amended, Law No. 6 of 1954 or this Law;​
----------------------
The Jordanian Nationality Law of 1954 had reaffirmed the status of Jordanian citizens on these residents of the West Bank, which was annexed to Jordan in 1950. Here, the conferment of Jordanian nationality had no effect under international law because Jordan had no right whatsoever to annex that part of Palestine.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf
(COMMENT)

UN Resolution 194 (III) does not speak to Citizenship or Nationality; not is it binding or law.

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) does not speak to the power of a sovereign to dissolve parliament and break all ties with the West Bank. No does is speak to the power of a Sovereign to annul any given law, to include the Nationality Law of 1954. I'm not even sure what the status is of the 1954 Law (half century old now).

I don't think the Hashemite Kingdom permits or entertains the interpretation of their immigration decisions. Generally speaking, the first wave of Palestinians came to Jordan in 1948; and Jordan recognized them, under the UN Convention and Protocols relation to the Status of Refugees, as refugees. The second big wave of Palestinians came after the 1967 War. The Hashemite Kingdom made a decision to consider these Palestinians as "Displaced Persons;" a distinct made when the King announced the 1988 disengagement from the West Bank.

EXCERPT: The Status of Palestinians in Jordan and the Anomaly of Holding a Jordanian Passport said:
Jordanian Citizenship
In Jordan, not all passports grant the same privileges. Following the 1988 judicial and administrative disengagement from the occupied territories, new regulations were enacted that rendered the passports of Palestinians living in the West Bank temporary [4]. In practical terms, this designation meant that the new temporary passports were now only valid as a travel document–it no longer conferred citizenship and it no longer had a national number. This situation created an anomaly, “a counterintuitive result whereby the holders of a Passport [with no national number] have far fewer rights (in fact none) compared to the holder of a mere [Jordanian] Identity Card, which includes a national number” [4]. To better understand the difference between a Jordanian holding a passport with a national number and one that possesses a temporary passport without a number, it is important to examine a few key instances in which basic rights are violated.
SOURCE: The Status of Palestinians in Jordan and the Anomaly of Holding a Jordanian Passport

Most Respectfully,
R
You missed the point. The Jordanian Nationality Law was invalid according to international law because it was illegal for Jordan to annex that land.

Just because a (foreign) government does something does not make it legal.

Foreign governments have no authority to change land, borders, or citizenship of a country.
 
I thought we were discussing Israel/Palestine. I read the Hamas Covenant, it appears you have not. It also appears you haven't read the Likud Charter.

As far as my thoughts on Islamic invasion, you can see an example here in the proper Forum Section:

Should Belgium Take Measures Like Syria Against Islamic Terrorists ?

Of course I was called a bigot. But then I only deal in facts, unlike you Zionist propagandists.
Some of us were discussing Israel/Pal'istan. You were flailing your Poms Poms for Islamic terrorists.

Read the Hamas Charter. When you come back, raise your hand to ask a question. Your Islamist propaganda is an annoyance.

I did read the Hamas Covenant (it's not called charter) and the Likud Charter. You haven't read either since you lied about what the Hamas Covenant stated, or read propaganda and repeated it. You see, I've got your number liar. You can't support your assertions because you are a pathological liar.
 
Islamic terrorism carried out by hostile Muslims that have invaded Europe has no logical connection to a national resistance movement resisting a European invader in Palestine. The European Jews invaded Palestine just as the North African and Middle Eastern Muslims are invading Europe. Were I a European, I certainly would resist Muslims that intended to colonize and create an Islamic state in Europe, just as the Christians and Muslims have resisted the colonization by Europeans and the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

I can't see why the fanatics can't understand a dynamic that is so clear to anyone that is a neutral.

You are daft

latest


There can be no national resistance movement when there is no nation or nationality involved.

European returnees make up roughly 30% of the Judaic population vs the nearly 95% of Arab Muslims that colonized the fledgling Israel in the early to mid 20th century.

200514-4662-uab4c-a.jpg


I can't see why the fanatics can't understand a dynamic that is so clear to anyone that is a neutral.

The simple reality is that Israel should toughen up a little and enforce the GC

Please note moderators. Boston is spamming his made up Hasbara chart which is false and without a link to the source. I then reply with the facts and the source which proves that more than 90% of the migrants between 1920 and 1945 were Jews:

View attachment 69163

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University


latest


1920 and 1945 ? I wasn't aware we were cherrypicking. In which case I'm referring to the years of 1840 to 1950.

200514-4662-uab4c-a.jpg


And all links have been provided many times. You just insist on ignoring them ;--)
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you have made a mistake here.

UN Resolution 194 of 1948. Article 12.4 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also states that: ‘No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of their right to enter his

Article 3

The following shall be deemed to be Jordanian nationals:

Article 3

The following shall be deemed to be Jordanian nationals:

(1)Any person who has acquired Jordanian nationality or a Jordanian passport under the Jordanian Nationality Law, 1928, as amended, Law No. 6 of 1954 or this Law;​
----------------------
The Jordanian Nationality Law of 1954 had reaffirmed the status of Jordanian citizens on these residents of the West Bank, which was annexed to Jordan in 1950. Here, the conferment of Jordanian nationality had no effect under international law because Jordan had no right whatsoever to annex that part of Palestine.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf
(COMMENT)

UN Resolution 194 (III) does not speak to Citizenship or Nationality; not is it binding or law.

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) does not speak to the power of a sovereign to dissolve parliament and break all ties with the West Bank. No does is speak to the power of a Sovereign to annul any given law, to include the Nationality Law of 1954. I'm not even sure what the status is of the 1954 Law (half century old now).

I don't think the Hashemite Kingdom permits or entertains the interpretation of their immigration decisions. Generally speaking, the first wave of Palestinians came to Jordan in 1948; and Jordan recognized them, under the UN Convention and Protocols relation to the Status of Refugees, as refugees. The second big wave of Palestinians came after the 1967 War. The Hashemite Kingdom made a decision to consider these Palestinians as "Displaced Persons;" a distinct made when the King announced the 1988 disengagement from the West Bank.

EXCERPT: The Status of Palestinians in Jordan and the Anomaly of Holding a Jordanian Passport said:
Jordanian Citizenship
In Jordan, not all passports grant the same privileges. Following the 1988 judicial and administrative disengagement from the occupied territories, new regulations were enacted that rendered the passports of Palestinians living in the West Bank temporary [4]. In practical terms, this designation meant that the new temporary passports were now only valid as a travel document–it no longer conferred citizenship and it no longer had a national number. This situation created an anomaly, “a counterintuitive result whereby the holders of a Passport [with no national number] have far fewer rights (in fact none) compared to the holder of a mere [Jordanian] Identity Card, which includes a national number” [4]. To better understand the difference between a Jordanian holding a passport with a national number and one that possesses a temporary passport without a number, it is important to examine a few key instances in which basic rights are violated.
SOURCE: The Status of Palestinians in Jordan and the Anomaly of Holding a Jordanian Passport

Most Respectfully,
R
You missed the point. The Jordanian Nationality Law was invalid according to international law because it was illegal for Jordan to annex that land.

Just because a (foreign) government does something does not make it legal.

Foreign governments have no authority to change land, borders, or citizenship of a country.

LOL

NO you missed the point. The UN resolution you quoted is non-binding and as such has no impact on law in any way international or otherwise. IE has no bearing on Jordanian nationality in any way whatsoever ;--)
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you have made a mistake here.

UN Resolution 194 of 1948. Article 12.4 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights also states that: ‘No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of their right to enter his

Article 3

The following shall be deemed to be Jordanian nationals:

Article 3

The following shall be deemed to be Jordanian nationals:

(1)Any person who has acquired Jordanian nationality or a Jordanian passport under the Jordanian Nationality Law, 1928, as amended, Law No. 6 of 1954 or this Law;​
----------------------
The Jordanian Nationality Law of 1954 had reaffirmed the status of Jordanian citizens on these residents of the West Bank, which was annexed to Jordan in 1950. Here, the conferment of Jordanian nationality had no effect under international law because Jordan had no right whatsoever to annex that part of Palestine.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf
(COMMENT)

UN Resolution 194 (III) does not speak to Citizenship or Nationality; not is it binding or law.

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) does not speak to the power of a sovereign to dissolve parliament and break all ties with the West Bank. No does is speak to the power of a Sovereign to annul any given law, to include the Nationality Law of 1954. I'm not even sure what the status is of the 1954 Law (half century old now).

I don't think the Hashemite Kingdom permits or entertains the interpretation of their immigration decisions. Generally speaking, the first wave of Palestinians came to Jordan in 1948; and Jordan recognized them, under the UN Convention and Protocols relation to the Status of Refugees, as refugees. The second big wave of Palestinians came after the 1967 War. The Hashemite Kingdom made a decision to consider these Palestinians as "Displaced Persons;" a distinct made when the King announced the 1988 disengagement from the West Bank.

EXCERPT: The Status of Palestinians in Jordan and the Anomaly of Holding a Jordanian Passport said:
Jordanian Citizenship
In Jordan, not all passports grant the same privileges. Following the 1988 judicial and administrative disengagement from the occupied territories, new regulations were enacted that rendered the passports of Palestinians living in the West Bank temporary [4]. In practical terms, this designation meant that the new temporary passports were now only valid as a travel document–it no longer conferred citizenship and it no longer had a national number. This situation created an anomaly, “a counterintuitive result whereby the holders of a Passport [with no national number] have far fewer rights (in fact none) compared to the holder of a mere [Jordanian] Identity Card, which includes a national number” [4]. To better understand the difference between a Jordanian holding a passport with a national number and one that possesses a temporary passport without a number, it is important to examine a few key instances in which basic rights are violated.
SOURCE: The Status of Palestinians in Jordan and the Anomaly of Holding a Jordanian Passport

Most Respectfully,
R
You missed the point. The Jordanian Nationality Law was invalid according to international law because it was illegal for Jordan to annex that land.

Just because a (foreign) government does something does not make it legal.

Foreign governments have no authority to change land, borders, or citizenship of a country.

LOL

NO you missed the point. The UN resolution you quoted is non-binding and as such has no impact on law in any way international or otherwise. IE has no bearing on Jordanian nationality in any way whatsoever ;--)
What UN resolution did I quote?
 
Hollie, et al,

There was a time when, as a young man, I found it much simpler to address these question.

I'm not sure if times were different then --- or if I was much more naive and illiterate --- or if the world became more complicated.

Thought-provoking, Rocco.

I suppose there's something of an issue with applying Hague convention proscriptions of "conventional" warfare to Islamic terrorism. I'll make the point that Islamic thought has for centuries divided the world into Dar al-Islam (the House of Submission) and Dar al-Harb (The House of War). Islam and its allegiants have always regarded themselves as at war with the rest of us. It's a fundamental aspect of Islamic doctrine well supported by the koran, the various ahadith, and the proclamations of imams and Islamic scholars.

Islamic terrorism is the spearhead force for Islam's worldwide jihad. The ever growing numbers of Moslems who've been allowed ingress to Western nations are the forces in echelon -- activists willing to riot and demonstrate -- and forces of occupation -- large numbers of Moslems concentrated into exclaves in which Islamist ideology rules de facto. Their logistical support is provided by the twenty-two or so nations currently under Islamic regimes, and by covert sympathizers in many other lands.

Finally.... finally, to get to your comments, I would suggest that Hamas meets the requirement of a central government (acknowledging your observation that there are two - competing governments in the disputed territories) as Hamas was an elected governing body.

The "chain of command" requirement is a bit more difficult to quantify. Whether the islamic terrorist groups you noted:

The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades
Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine [AKA: Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)]
Al-Quds Brigades or the Jerusalem Brigades, of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)

are subordinate to some Islamic Terrorist General Staff somewhere In the bowels of Hamas planning out attacks with completely conscious, completely intentional purposes is unlikely. If the Islamic terrorists and their dispatchers within Hamas have an articulated theory of warfare, it's more likely to be Inshallah (cf. the Latin Deus vult) than any version of the above.

Regarding the Hague regulations you posted:

Article 1 of the Hague Regulations provides that the laws, rights and duties of war apply; fulfilling four conditions:

1. To be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
2. To have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance;
3. To carry arms openly; and
4. To conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.


1. As applied against the islamic terrorist groups noted above, not fulfilled

2. Not fulfilled. Noting however, the ability of various islamic terrorist groups Hamas, the "Hizzbullies", etc., to somehow manage the means to acquire uniforms for Islamic terrorist parades.

3. Requirement fulfilled.

4. Not fulfiled.

To address the following:
  1. one question:
• When rockets and mortars are being fired from Gaza into Israel, --- what central authority can order operators to cease-fire?

It appears that there is no such central authority. And, I think more importantly, whatever we may wish to call a central authority as it relates to Hamas as a "governing body", we must also understand that Hamas materially supports and promotes rockets and mortars being fired from Gaza into Israel. As such, they are as complicit in acts of Islamic terrorism as the groups noted previously.

Warfare by way of islamic terrorism works by way of an infiltration-oriented army vs. any conventional land war between nation-states. The key to confronting islamic terrorism is to understand that Hague Conventions of war don't necessarily apply in an era of global islamic terrorism. There needs to be a certain removing of the intellectual and emotional barriers that cause us to insist that Islamic terrorism is ideologically distasteful to the great majority of Moslems and has nothing to do with Islam per se.
(COMMENT)

I did notice that at the winding end of my career, it was much different than my Vietnam days at the opening.

There was a time when there was no talk of definitions or legal requirements. You had Fracken BG's (Bad Guys), you had Fracken WBGs (Wild Bad Guys), and you had VSF-BAG w/Gs (Very Serious Fracken --- Bad Ass Guy with Guns). Today, you have people who will argue that the Palestinians that engaged the Israeli Olympic Team were just freedom fights. That the Palestinians that hijacked of three jets to Jordan's Dawson Field were heroic. Or that the Palestinians the rolled an American in a wheelchair off the deck and into the Sea were justified in their actions. It was not that long ago that the Palestinians were holding a celebration in memory of the suicide bomber that killed civilian women and children as heroic and brave.

Everyone has a different concept of a bad guy.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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I thought we were discussing Israel/Palestine. I read the Hamas Covenant, it appears you have not. It also appears you haven't read the Likud Charter.

As far as my thoughts on Islamic invasion, you can see an example here in the proper Forum Section:

Should Belgium Take Measures Like Syria Against Islamic Terrorists ?

Of course I was called a bigot. But then I only deal in facts, unlike you Zionist propagandists.
Some of us were discussing Israel/Pal'istan. You were flailing your Poms Poms for Islamic terrorists.

Read the Hamas Charter. When you come back, raise your hand to ask a question. Your Islamist propaganda is an annoyance.

I did read the Hamas Covenant (it's not called charter) and the Likud Charter. You haven't read either since you lied about what the Hamas Covenant stated, or read propaganda and repeated it. You see, I've got your number liar. You can't support your assertions because you are a pathological liar.

Oh! The angry Islamist?

Really. Do yourself a favor and read the Hamas Charter. You will find it's largely a reiteration of Islamist ideology that dated to back to ancient Islamist times and tales. It includes all the same pompous claims to gee-had and islamo-supremacy that is spewed out by ISIS, Hamas, the Muslim brotherhood and every other islamo-fascist spokes-beard.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I did not miss the point.

You missed the point. The Jordanian Nationality Law was invalid according to international law because it was illegal for Jordan to annex that land.

Just because a (foreign) government does something does not make it legal.

Foreign governments have no authority to change land, borders, or citizenship of a country.
(COMMENT)

The West Bank Palestinians sent representative to the Jordanian Parliament and exercised their right to self-determination, to become part of Jordan.

It has always been the radical Islamist that promote conflict that objected. They wanted to continue the fight, and to engage in terrorism. They were never interested in the people and what would better help them.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
I thought we were discussing Israel/Palestine. I read the Hamas Covenant, it appears you have not. It also appears you haven't read the Likud Charter.

As far as my thoughts on Islamic invasion, you can see an example here in the proper Forum Section:

Should Belgium Take Measures Like Syria Against Islamic Terrorists ?

Of course I was called a bigot. But then I only deal in facts, unlike you Zionist propagandists.
Some of us were discussing Israel/Pal'istan. You were flailing your Poms Poms for Islamic terrorists.

Read the Hamas Charter. When you come back, raise your hand to ask a question. Your Islamist propaganda is an annoyance.

I did read the Hamas Covenant (it's not called charter) and the Likud Charter. You haven't read either since you lied about what the Hamas Covenant stated, or read propaganda and repeated it. You see, I've got your number liar. You can't support your assertions because you are a pathological liar.

Oh! The angry Islamist?

Really. Do yourself a favor and read the Hamas Charter. You will find it's largely a reiteration of Islamist ideology that dated to back to ancient Islamist times and tales. It includes all the same pompous claims to gee-had and islamo-supremacy that is spewed out by ISIS, Hamas, the Muslim brotherhood and every other islamo-fascist spokes-beard.
Do you have a list of the Hamas leaders who endorsed that document?

Just curious.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh ---get with the program.

I thought we were discussing Israel/Palestine. I read the Hamas Covenant, it appears you have not. It also appears you haven't read the Likud Charter.

As far as my thoughts on Islamic invasion, you can see an example here in the proper Forum Section:

Should Belgium Take Measures Like Syria Against Islamic Terrorists ?

Of course I was called a bigot. But then I only deal in facts, unlike you Zionist propagandists.
Some of us were discussing Israel/Pal'istan. You were flailing your Poms Poms for Islamic terrorists.

Read the Hamas Charter. When you come back, raise your hand to ask a question. Your Islamist propaganda is an annoyance.

I did read the Hamas Covenant (it's not called charter) and the Likud Charter. You haven't read either since you lied about what the Hamas Covenant stated, or read propaganda and repeated it. You see, I've got your number liar. You can't support your assertions because you are a pathological liar.

Oh! The angry Islamist?

Really. Do yourself a favor and read the Hamas Charter. You will find it's largely a reiteration of Islamist ideology that dated to back to ancient Islamist times and tales. It includes all the same pompous claims to gee-had and islamo-supremacy that is spewed out by ISIS, Hamas, the Muslim brotherhood and every other islamo-fascist spokes-beard.
Do you have a list of the Hamas leaders who endorsed that document?

Just curious.
(COMMENT)

Do you have a list of any HAMAS around in 1950. You should not have asked this question. This is a propaganda type trick question.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I did not miss the point.

You missed the point. The Jordanian Nationality Law was invalid according to international law because it was illegal for Jordan to annex that land.

Just because a (foreign) government does something does not make it legal.

Foreign governments have no authority to change land, borders, or citizenship of a country.
(COMMENT)

The West Bank Palestinians sent representative to the Jordanian Parliament and exercised their right to self-determination, to become part of Jordan.

It has always been the radical Islamist that promote conflict that objected. They wanted to continue the fight, and to engage in terrorism. They were never interested in the people and what would better help them.

Most Respectfully,
R
I heard the Jordan hand picked some Palestinian "leaders" who would go along with their scam. The world did not buy it and considered that Jordan held the West Bank in trust.

Like I said, just because a foreign government does something does not make it legal.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh ---get with the program.

I thought we were discussing Israel/Palestine. I read the Hamas Covenant, it appears you have not. It also appears you haven't read the Likud Charter.

As far as my thoughts on Islamic invasion, you can see an example here in the proper Forum Section:

Should Belgium Take Measures Like Syria Against Islamic Terrorists ?

Of course I was called a bigot. But then I only deal in facts, unlike you Zionist propagandists.
Some of us were discussing Israel/Pal'istan. You were flailing your Poms Poms for Islamic terrorists.

Read the Hamas Charter. When you come back, raise your hand to ask a question. Your Islamist propaganda is an annoyance.

I did read the Hamas Covenant (it's not called charter) and the Likud Charter. You haven't read either since you lied about what the Hamas Covenant stated, or read propaganda and repeated it. You see, I've got your number liar. You can't support your assertions because you are a pathological liar.

Oh! The angry Islamist?

Really. Do yourself a favor and read the Hamas Charter. You will find it's largely a reiteration of Islamist ideology that dated to back to ancient Islamist times and tales. It includes all the same pompous claims to gee-had and islamo-supremacy that is spewed out by ISIS, Hamas, the Muslim brotherhood and every other islamo-fascist spokes-beard.
Do you have a list of the Hamas leaders who endorsed that document?

Just curious.
(COMMENT)

Do you have a list of any HAMAS around in 1950. You should not have asked this question. This is a propaganda type trick question.

Most Respectfully,
R
Not at all. Normally documents like charters and constitutions are signed by officials who endorse and validate the document. I am merely asking for that list.
 

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