Israel and Palastine explained.

[MHunterB]

I don't know if the OP is a lying POS - or just supremely ignorant. Roads 'not accessable to Palestinians" is NOT the same thing as 'Jew-only' roads (as the lying video claimed)

Somewhere around 22% of Israeli citizens are NOT Jewish - and they can use the roads. It's based on CITIZENSHIP, and Palestinians resident in the WB are not Israeli citizens. If they (pals) have to go through checkpoints, so do Canadians who drive into the US to go to work..... the OP should be ranting about that as well.

The other blatant big lie is the OP's asinine insistence that Israeli Jews are 'European' - even the Askenazi Jews are closer genetically to the rest of the ME than to any Europeans..... And only a bit less than HALF of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi. The biggest group are Sephardi and Mizrachi Jews - who are the people the Arab League nations plundered and ejected. - and that's the 'relevance' of the ethnic cleansing conspiracy by those Arab League nations.

 

[Lipush]

There is no such thing as "Jew only roads" in Israel.

But Anti-Zionism goes hand in hand with deciet and ignorance.

 

[Zmrzlina]

NO, it doesn't do a good job at all. It's very inaccurate.

For one thing, it NEVER mentions the just under one million people from many Arab League nations - who were beggared and ejected by the AL nations.

Relevance?
Patently false. http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_movement_access_2009_november_english.pdf
So the Palestinians are supposed to just accept the short end of the stick or be faced with relocation and violence. Gotcha.
Because they already had land and a home.
Seems like a separate discussion.

If being 'second class citizens' is so terrible - why aren't the Arab League states being told to stop discriminating against Palestinians in terms of citizenship, jobs, human rights?

Again a separate discussion.

"Jews only" roads were established in the West Bank because Arab snipers kept shooting on Jews who were driving on the regular roads.
Arabs are indigenous to Arabia. Jews are indigenous to Judea.

And peoples never migrate...

 

[Zmrzlina]

It is always amuses me- They call the people of Gaza and Judea and Samaria "Palestinian refugees".


I'm sorry, but.....what?

Palestinian refugees? But of what state? Palestine? There was never a Palestine to start with.

Oh, you mean, maybe refugees of the Palestine we agree on, in the 1967 borders.

But then...It means they're refugees in the same lands which are to be in a future Palestinian state.

So they are refugees of the same place they sit in?

That makes sense as much as people calling me an "Israeli refugee" or calling the people of London "Britian refugees" or Americans "New-York refugees".

So....What is that all about?

You can spin this anyway you like but the fact of the matter is that indigenous people were displaced to form a Jewish State.

The indigenous people of Israel are the Jews.

The indigenous people of "Palestine" are the Jordanians.

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

 

[irosie91]

Relevance?
Patently false. http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_movement_access_2009_november_english.pdf
So the Palestinians are supposed to just accept the short end of the stick or be faced with relocation and violence. Gotcha.
Because they already had land and a home.
Seems like a separate discussion.
Again a separate discussion.

"Jews only" roads were established in the West Bank because Arab snipers kept shooting on Jews who were driving on the regular roads.
Arabs are indigenous to Arabia. Jews are indigenous to Judea.

And peoples never migrate...

people not only migrate----they invade. Arabs invaded Palestine---
the Arabic language developed in ARABIA ----not Palestine----Hebrew
developed in Palestine aka Judea/Israel

jews did not INVADE Palestine in the 19th and 20th century----they
MIGRATED there Many migrated to escape oppression and violence
from arabs----who invaded and occupied those lands for centuries----ie
ARABIAN COLONISTS]\e

 

[P F Tinmore]

can you define "INDiGENOUS PEOPLE"??

People who lived in the area before they were invaded and pushed out by European Zionists.

Dennis Prager, Not a Pallywood-made video.

Propaganda crap.

People in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.

"A state" is not necessary.

 

[Indeependent]

You can spin this anyway you like but the fact of the matter is that indigenous people were displaced to form a Jewish State.

The indigenous people of Israel are the Jews.

The indigenous people of "Palestine" are the Jordanians.

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

Let's look at history...
[x] Jews kicked out of Israel by Babylonians, became part of Babylonian society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Babylonia.
[x] Jews conquered by Greece, became part of Greek society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Greece.
[x] Jews out of Israel by Rome, became part of Roman society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Rome.
In fact, Romans were converting to Rabbinical Judaism in droves; 20% of Rome was Jewish.

Any other questions designed to make you appear to be completely ignorant of history?

 

[GISMYS]

GOD SEEMS TO LOVE TO HAVE ISRAEL'S ENEMIES FIGHT AND DESTROY EACH OTHER AS WE SEE TODAY MUSLIM KILLING MUSLIM ALL OVER THE MID EAST!!! PTL, ===Early the next morning the army of Judah went out into the wilderness of Tekoa. On the way Jehoshaphat stopped and called them to attention. “Listen to me, O people of Judah and Jerusalem,” he said. “Believe in the Lord your God and you shall have success! Believe his prophets and everything will be all right!”

21 After consultation with the leaders of the people, he determined that there should be a choir leading the march, clothed in sanctified garments and singing the song “His Loving-Kindness Is Forever” as they walked along praising and thanking the Lord! 22 And at the moment they began to sing and to praise, the Lord caused the armies of Ammon, Moab, and Mount Seir to begin fighting among themselves, and they destroyed each other! 23 For the Ammonites and Moabites turned against their allies from Mount Seir and killed every one of them. And when they had finished that job, they turned against each other! 24 So, when the army of Judah arrived at the watchtower that looks out over the wilderness, as far as they could look there were dead bodies lying on the ground—not a single one of the enemy had escaped. 25 King Jehoshaphat and his people went out to plunder the bodies and came away loaded with money, garments, and jewels stripped from the corpses—so much that it took them three days to cart it all away! 26 On the fourth day they gathered in the Valley of Blessing, as it is called today, and how they praised the Lord!

27 Then they returned to Jerusalem, with Jehoshaphat leading them, full of joy that the Lord had given them this marvelous rescue from their enemies. 28 They marched into Jerusalem accompanied by a band of harps, lyres, and trumpets and proceeded to the Temple. 29 And as had happened before, when the surrounding kingdoms heard that the Lord himself had fought against the enemies of Israel, the fear of God fell upon them. 30 So Jehoshaphat’s kingdom was quiet, for his God had given him rest.
2 Early the next morning the army of Judah went out into the wilderness of Tekoa. On the way Jehoshaphat stopped and called them to attention. “Listen to me, O people of Judah and Jerusalem,” he said. “Believe in the Lord your God and you shall have success! Believe his prophets and everything will be all right!”

21 After consultation with the leaders of the people, he determined that there should be a choir leading the march, clothed in sanctified garments and singing the song “His Loving-Kindness Is Forever” as they walked along praising and thanking the Lord! 22 And at the moment they began to sing and to praise, the Lord caused the armies of Ammon, Moab, and Mount Seir to begin fighting among themselves, and they destroyed each other! 23 For the Ammonites and Moabites turned against their allies from Mount Seir and killed every one of them. And when they had finished that job, they turned against each other! 24 So, when the army of Judah arrived at the watchtower that looks out over the wilderness, as far as they could look there were dead bodies lying on the ground—not a single one of the enemy had escaped. 25 King Jehoshaphat and his people went out to plunder the bodies and came away loaded with money, garments, and jewels stripped from the corpses—so much that it took them three days to cart it all away! 26 On the fourth day they gathered in the Valley of Blessing, as it is called today, and how they praised the Lord!

27 Then they returned to Jerusalem, with Jehoshaphat leading them, full of joy that the Lord had given them this marvelous rescue from their enemies. 28 They marched into Jerusalem accompanied by a band of harps, lyres, and trumpets and proceeded to the Temple. 29 And as had happened before, when the surrounding kingdoms heard that the Lord himself had fought against the enemies of Israel, the fear of God fell upon them. 30 So Jehoshaphat’s kingdom was quiet, for his God had given him rest.
2 CHRONICIES 20:22-30

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

What non-self-governing territory???

People who lived in the area before they were invaded and pushed out by European Zionists.

Dennis Prager, Not a Pallywood-made video.

Propaganda crap.

People in non self governing territories have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty, and the right to territorial integrity.

"A state" is not necessary.

(COMMENT)

Since the time of the Partition Plan the Arab Palestinians were stumbling through self government; very ineffectively.

First, the "external interference" was on the part of the Arab League. Prior to the termination of the British Mandate, the UK was the Government. After the termination, and the War of Independence, the Arab Palestinians established the "All Palestine Government" in the Gaza Strip and the Jordanians, the the consent of the Arab Palestinians, annexed the West Bank.

In both cases, the Arab Palestinian exercised their right of self determination. They chose the type of government they wanted and no other nation interfered with their decision.

In fact, in 1988, the Arab Palestinians declared independence, which was a third attempt at self-governance; clearly exercising the right of self-determination. While the government was parasitic then, as it is now, the only external interference was in the form of donor nation contributions to keep the State of Palestine solvent and line the pockets of a very corrupt Palestinian Leadership.

If the Arab Palestinians had not attempted to assassinate the King of Jordan, and had not been such a criminal influence, it might still be part of Jordan today. But the character of the Arab Palestinian was not about to let that happen. To troublesome and unproductive, The Hashemite Kingdom dropped them in a clean break; cutting all economic and political ties in 1988.

Similarly, in 1959, Egypt, recognizing the ineffectiveness of the All Palestine Government, annulled the organization in favor of a standard occupation government.

Your implication that some allied eternal influence retarded self-government is an over simplification of what really happened. As Article 22 of the League of Nations Covenant eluded to, there were some people that were not yet ready to stand on their own. The Arab Palestinian demonstrated their abilities a number of times.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MHunterB]

You can spin this anyway you like but the fact of the matter is that indigenous people were displaced to form a Jewish State.

The indigenous people of Israel are the Jews.

The indigenous people of "Palestine" are the Jordanians.

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

Except that *that* isn't what happened. And if your little heart bleeds so for the poor refugee Palestinians - why don't you care about the Jewish Arab refugees created by the ethnic cleansing of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc, etc, etc, ????

Or are you still stuck on your stupid fantasy that all Israeli Jews are "European"? NOT EVEN HALF - you can google it for yourself.

 

[irosie91]

The indigenous people of Israel are the Jews.

The indigenous people of "Palestine" are the Jordanians.

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

Except that *that* isn't what happened. And if your little heart bleeds so for the poor refugee Palestinians - why don't you care about the Jewish Arab refugees created by the ethnic cleansing of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc, etc, etc, ????

Or are you still stuck on your stupid fantasy that all Israeli Jews are "European"? NOT EVEN HALF - you can google it for yourself.

Marge----the all jews are European thing is VITAL in islamo Nazi propaganda.....
it kinda enhances the idea of GROSS DISPLACEMENT AND FOREIGN INVASION

 

[irosie91]

You can spin this anyway you like but the fact of the matter is that indigenous people were displaced to form a Jewish State.

The indigenous people of Israel are the Jews.

The indigenous people of "Palestine" are the Jordanians.

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

when and where did such a thing happen zimzim??? well---I can think of
several places-------Islamic invasion shoved Zoroastrians from their homes and lands.
but that did not involve Europeans. Bengali Hindus who lived in east Bengal for
THOUSANDS OF YEARS----got displaced because allah decided that East Bengal is
is MUSLIM LAND belonging largely to some people who came down from some place
north of that land

I am vague on british history----but I do recall something about NORMANS ---
displacing SAXONS

 

[Zmrzlina]

The indigenous people of Israel are the Jews.

The indigenous people of "Palestine" are the Jordanians.

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

Let's look at history...
[x] Jews kicked out of Israel by Babylonians, became part of Babylonian society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Babylonia.
[x] Jews conquered by Greece, became part of Greek society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Greece.
[x] Jews out of Israel by Rome, became part of Roman society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Rome.
In fact, Romans were converting to Rabbinical Judaism in droves; 20% of Rome was Jewish.

Any other questions designed to make you appear to be completely ignorant of history?

We live in a globalized modernized society ruled by international law. Land is not doled out based on wrongs done in antiquity. This piss poor argument doesn't make any sense.

 

[aris2chat]

It is always amuses me- They call the people of Gaza and Judea and Samaria "Palestinian refugees".


I'm sorry, but.....what?

Palestinian refugees? But of what state? Palestine? There was never a Palestine to start with.

Oh, you mean, maybe refugees of the Palestine we agree on, in the 1967 borders.

But then...It means they're refugees in the same lands which are to be in a future Palestinian state.

So they are refugees of the same place they sit in?

That makes sense as much as people calling me an "Israeli refugee" or calling the people of London "Britian refugees" or Americans "New-York refugees".

So....What is that all about?

You can spin this anyway you like but the fact of the matter is that indigenous people were displaced to form a Jewish State.

half the people left, half the people stayed and became Israelis with more rights and privileges than other arabs in the region by their countries.

 

[Indeependent]

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

Let's look at history...
[x] Jews kicked out of Israel by Babylonians, became part of Babylonian society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Babylonia.
[x] Jews conquered by Greece, became part of Greek society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Greece.
[x] Jews out of Israel by Rome, became part of Roman society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Rome.
In fact, Romans were converting to Rabbinical Judaism in droves; 20% of Rome was Jewish.

Any other questions designed to make you appear to be completely ignorant of history?

We live in a globalized modernized society ruled by international law. Land is not doled out based on wrongs done in antiquity. This piss poor argument doesn't make any sense.

That wasn't my point.
Even the JOOS with their Torah didn't become terrorists in the lands they wound up in.
The ONLY group in history that's still bitchin' about "losing" their land 60 years ago, when in actuality it was HANDED to them, is the West Bank Jordanians.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The indigenous people of Israel are the Jews.

The indigenous people of "Palestine" are the Jordanians.

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

Except that *that* isn't what happened. And if your little heart bleeds so for the poor refugee Palestinians - why don't you care about the Jewish Arab refugees created by the ethnic cleansing of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc, etc, etc, ????

Or are you still stuck on your stupid fantasy that all Israeli Jews are "European"? NOT EVEN HALF - you can google it for yourself.

I have always favored the Jews right of return to their native homes in Arab countries.

Where is their right of return organization? I will support it?

 

[Lipush]

You can spin this anyway you like but the fact of the matter is that indigenous people were displaced to form a Jewish State.

The indigenous people of Israel are the Jews.

The indigenous people of "Palestine" are the Jordanians.

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

Except that it wasn't the case. At all.

They were "kicked out of their house" because they have chosen to open a war instead of living with Jews in peace.

How would you feel if someone tried to kick you out of your house, actually have done it, you've defended yourself, and then was in need, for some stupid reason, to apologize to the agressor for simply holding your ground?

 

[Challenger]

Israel and Palestine 2013: War Explained! - YouTube

Besides the promotion of an improbable divestment and impractical boycott this video does a good job.

Thanks for sharing this Jewish video.

It's basically accurate, although I do agree it does miss out some events which are largely irrelevant to the topic, for example the fact that the Jewish populations were "encouraged" to leave surrounding Muslim countries, long after the creation of the Jewish state; Muslim opinion being fueled by Israelis brutal and murderous treatment of Palestinian refugees.

In fact Iraq refused to allow it's Jewish population to leave until 1951, when Zionist terrorists set off bombs in Baghdad. Until then Jewish Iraqis were generally content to remain where they were. Later Ygall Allon as good as admitted Israel was behind these bombings.

Also I shouldn't dispair over BDS, remember what happened in South Africa, it can happen again

 

[Challenger]

How would you like it if you were kicked out of your house and off your land because some Europeans said that their Holy book meant that they had more of a right then you to live there?

Except that *that* isn't what happened. And if your little heart bleeds so for the poor refugee Palestinians - why don't you care about the Jewish Arab refugees created by the ethnic cleansing of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc, etc, etc, ????

Or are you still stuck on your stupid fantasy that all Israeli Jews are "European"? NOT EVEN HALF - you can google it for yourself.

I have always favored the Jews right of return to their native homes in Arab countries.

Where is their right of return organization? I will support it?

They don't actually have one. The closest is this propaganda site, more geared to obtaining financial compensation, than any "right to return" which incidentally is enshrined by UN charter and has never been historically denied by those countries as far as I'm aware.

Official Website of Justice for Jews from Arab Countries

 

[Challenger]

Let's look at history...
[x] Jews kicked out of Israel by Babylonians, became part of Babylonian society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Babylonia.
[x] Jews conquered by Greece, became part of Greek society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Greece.
[x] Jews out of Israel by Rome, became part of Roman society, excelled, became an integral cornerstone of Rome.
In fact, Romans were converting to Rabbinical Judaism in droves; 20% of Rome was Jewish.

Ooh, can we?

[x] Judean rebel elites deported by Babylonians to keep a eye on them where they syncretised Babylonian religion with their own cult to create the Babylonian Talmud or "Judaism." Here they lived the high life until the Iranians conquered the Baylonians and Cyrus decreed they could go if they wanted. Some did, others didn't.
[x] Macedonians destroy the Achaemenid Empire and after Alexander dies, Seleucius gets to rule the area and commences proces of modernizing the place along Hellenistic lines, this is too much for some conservative religious fanatic terrorists who rebel and create a short lived mini-state.
[x] Seleucid empire conquered by Romans. Same set of religious fanatic terrorists cause problems for the Romans until they lose patience and wipe them out. Meanwhile the peaceful adherants of Judaism send out missionaries all over the Roman empire where the Jewish religion takes hold alongside Paganism until the rise of Christianity, then it all goes wrong and the Jewish peoples of the Roman Empire invent a myth of exile and spritiual redemption to keep their morale up, while the Christians go on to dominate most of the Western world.

There you go thats history, not the Zionist hasbara version.