Isaiah 53 Explained to the Non Jew

[Delta4Embassy]

To say nothing of the prophecies about the Messiah also make it perfectly clear he wont be God incarnate. So Jesus may well have been God incarnate, but if he was he was not then also the Messiah. Can be one or the other but not both.

 

[irosie91]

To say nothing of the prophecies about the Messiah also make it perfectly clear he wont be God incarnate. So Jesus may well have been God incarnate, but if he was he was not then also the Messiah. Can be one or the other but not both.

The greeks and romans had "gods" on earth moving about like humans. Usually they were the product of a randy zeus and some milk maid -----following a brief encounter

 

[irosie91]

Been literally dozens of Messianic claimants including Yeshua. But none has fulfilled the prophecies describing in greatd etail what this Messiah is to do. If a claimant doesn't fulfill any of those prophecies he isn't/wasn't the Messiah.

In Yeshua's case, he not only didn't fulfill any of the prophecies, but he drew worship away from God which is especially naughty. On that count alone his execution was justified under religious law.

Deuteronomy 13:2-6 explains very clearly what happens to false-prophets and such, they're executed.

Have you ever considered the possibility that it only seems like Jesus did not fulfill messianic expectations because the literal minded religious authorities of that time held irrational messianic expectations based on perverse superstitious and ignorant interpretations of OT prophecies?

you want to cite the "LITERAL MINDED RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY OF THE DAY" to whom you refer? and the "irrational messianic expectations based on superstitious and ignorant interpretations of OT prophecies? -------just of few examples of each will do.

 

[hobelim]

Been literally dozens of Messianic claimants including Yeshua. But none has fulfilled the prophecies describing in greatd etail what this Messiah is to do. If a claimant doesn't fulfill any of those prophecies he isn't/wasn't the Messiah.

In Yeshua's case, he not only didn't fulfill any of the prophecies, but he drew worship away from God which is especially naughty. On that count alone his execution was justified under religious law.

Deuteronomy 13:2-6 explains very clearly what happens to false-prophets and such, they're executed.

Have you ever considered the possibility that it only seems like Jesus did not fulfill messianic expectations because the literal minded religious authorities of that time held irrational messianic expectations based on perverse superstitious and ignorant interpretations of OT prophecies?

One of the requirements was to call all the world's Jews to Israel to live under full Torah compliance. If you see that having happened then I'll ignore everything else and agree he was the Messiah.

Jesus taught obedience to the law in the same way that was originally taught by moses. See matthew 5:17-20

What became obsolete after his revelation was what he called the traditions of men, the oral law, which contains detailed instructions about how to conform to the literal letter of the law that had been accumulated over a thousand years since the death of Moses who said that after his death the people would turn aside from the way that he taught to follow the law and would take to degrading practices...

Thats why he asked, 'why worry about what you eat and what you wear', and said, 'what goes into the mouth cannot defile you', eat my flesh, etc.

He was teaching that the law was figurative in nature and the subjects hidden.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

First off the Tanakh and Christian Bible have Greek, Sumerian, Roman, and even Buddhist ( The Christian part ) influence.

Tartarus is in Greek, Roman, The Tanakh, and the New Testament and prove the influence of other cultures had over the sotries being told in the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you have Samson which is Hercules in Greek mythology and is another Greek influenced story within the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you had the Leviathan which is also in Greek Mythology and in the Tanakh and Christian Bible along with many other Myths around the world.

As I written before the Jewish God was most likely Anu ( Sumerian mythology ) and Chaos ( Greek Mythology ) the mixing of the Gods from other cultures created the one Jewish God.

Now what does this have to do with what the OP'er and the other posts in this thread?

Simple, as we discuss the words of the Tanakh or the Christian Bible we must remember those stories are mixed with mythology, and should never be taken literal even though many do.

The fact is Jesus story spans from the New Testament to the Quran and I have even read stories about him even visiting Buddhist regions in the far east and of course like poster pointed out the Book of Mormon.

Was he a Messiah?

No, and if you study the meaning of the word Jesus fails to be a Messiah.

Was he the Son of God?

We are all Children of God under the Abrahamic way of teaching, so if you look at it that way yes Jesus was the son of God.

Was Jesus himself God?

Many Christian sects proclaim he was but in reality you can not be the son of God and God at the same time, and also if he were God and after being nailed to the Cross he would have not called out to his father. Also again he spoke as God to being his father and not him as being God, so he was not God.

In the end as many Social Conservatives attempt to distort the stories in the Bible to fit their social agenda like they did when they once believed the Mark of Cain was for African Blacks the reality set in and the fact is shown they distort the stories and when discover double down on stupidity until they can no longer lie and deny.

The Bible, Tanakh, and Quran are great lessons books to learn wrong from right, but they should never be used to rule our lives with nor should they be allow to govern our government.

So as I finish this long winded rant that jump all over the place please note that I for one consider Jesus a good teacher and maybe could be consider a prophet but no means was he a Messiah, but I am sure many will disagree and proclaim everything I wrote to be of the devil and just gibberish to them.

Fin

Jesus is the Son of God , not a son of God.

How about Son of Dog instead?

Spelling God backwards and according to you I thought you did not believe in Jesus or is it only when it suits your hatred and rage, and please can you spell out the Palestinian name and not use Pal because that is very insulting as can be!

( Now watch how she tell me how her mistakes are not the problem but because I did not use a Capital S on Son she had to be the gramer police when she screws up the majority of her responses )

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If genuinely interested in why Jesus wasn't the Messiah, read this. If not don't. Your going to hell doesn't mean a thing to me.

Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

 

[hobelim]

To say nothing of the prophecies about the Messiah also make it perfectly clear he wont be God incarnate. So Jesus may well have been God incarnate, but if he was he was not then also the Messiah. Can be one or the other but not both.

No, there never was and there never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

 

[Penelope]

To say nothing of the prophecies about the Messiah also make it perfectly clear he wont be God incarnate. So Jesus may well have been God incarnate, but if he was he was not then also the Messiah. Can be one or the other but not both.

The greeks and romans had "gods" on earth moving about like humans. Usually they were the product of a randy zeus and some milk maid -----following a brief encounter

If genuinely interested in why Jesus wasn't the Messiah, read this. If not don't. Your going to hell doesn't mean a thing to me.

Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

Why not let Bibi be your messiah. You admitted you killed the son of God, the everlasting light, with him from the beginning and you live in darkness now.

 

[Penelope]

First off the Tanakh and Christian Bible have Greek, Sumerian, Roman, and even Buddhist ( The Christian part ) influence.

Tartarus is in Greek, Roman, The Tanakh, and the New Testament and prove the influence of other cultures had over the sotries being told in the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you have Samson which is Hercules in Greek mythology and is another Greek influenced story within the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you had the Leviathan which is also in Greek Mythology and in the Tanakh and Christian Bible along with many other Myths around the world.

As I written before the Jewish God was most likely Anu ( Sumerian mythology ) and Chaos ( Greek Mythology ) the mixing of the Gods from other cultures created the one Jewish God.

Now what does this have to do with what the OP'er and the other posts in this thread?

Simple, as we discuss the words of the Tanakh or the Christian Bible we must remember those stories are mixed with mythology, and should never be taken literal even though many do.

The fact is Jesus story spans from the New Testament to the Quran and I have even read stories about him even visiting Buddhist regions in the far east and of course like poster pointed out the Book of Mormon.

Was he a Messiah?

No, and if you study the meaning of the word Jesus fails to be a Messiah.

Was he the Son of God?

We are all Children of God under the Abrahamic way of teaching, so if you look at it that way yes Jesus was the son of God.

Was Jesus himself God?

Many Christian sects proclaim he was but in reality you can not be the son of God and God at the same time, and also if he were God and after being nailed to the Cross he would have not called out to his father. Also again he spoke as God to being his father and not him as being God, so he was not God.

In the end as many Social Conservatives attempt to distort the stories in the Bible to fit their social agenda like they did when they once believed the Mark of Cain was for African Blacks the reality set in and the fact is shown they distort the stories and when discover double down on stupidity until they can no longer lie and deny.

The Bible, Tanakh, and Quran are great lessons books to learn wrong from right, but they should never be used to rule our lives with nor should they be allow to govern our government.

So as I finish this long winded rant that jump all over the place please note that I for one consider Jesus a good teacher and maybe could be consider a prophet but no means was he a Messiah, but I am sure many will disagree and proclaim everything I wrote to be of the devil and just gibberish to them.

Fin

Jesus is the Son of God , not a son of God.

How about Son of Dog instead?

Spelling God backwards and according to you I thought you did not believe in Jesus or is it only when it suits your hatred and rage, and please can you spell out the Palestinian name and not use Pal because that is very insulting as can be!

( Now watch how she tell me how her mistakes are not the problem but because I did not use a Capital S on Son she had to be the gramer police when she screws up the majority of her responses )

Sun of God, is which I believe the last Sun God, he is the Son of God and forever will be as long as there are people , as without our Son there is no life.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

First off the Tanakh and Christian Bible have Greek, Sumerian, Roman, and even Buddhist ( The Christian part ) influence.

Tartarus is in Greek, Roman, The Tanakh, and the New Testament and prove the influence of other cultures had over the sotries being told in the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you have Samson which is Hercules in Greek mythology and is another Greek influenced story within the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you had the Leviathan which is also in Greek Mythology and in the Tanakh and Christian Bible along with many other Myths around the world.

As I written before the Jewish God was most likely Anu ( Sumerian mythology ) and Chaos ( Greek Mythology ) the mixing of the Gods from other cultures created the one Jewish God.

Now what does this have to do with what the OP'er and the other posts in this thread?

Simple, as we discuss the words of the Tanakh or the Christian Bible we must remember those stories are mixed with mythology, and should never be taken literal even though many do.

The fact is Jesus story spans from the New Testament to the Quran and I have even read stories about him even visiting Buddhist regions in the far east and of course like poster pointed out the Book of Mormon.

Was he a Messiah?

No, and if you study the meaning of the word Jesus fails to be a Messiah.

Was he the Son of God?

We are all Children of God under the Abrahamic way of teaching, so if you look at it that way yes Jesus was the son of God.

Was Jesus himself God?

Many Christian sects proclaim he was but in reality you can not be the son of God and God at the same time, and also if he were God and after being nailed to the Cross he would have not called out to his father. Also again he spoke as God to being his father and not him as being God, so he was not God.

In the end as many Social Conservatives attempt to distort the stories in the Bible to fit their social agenda like they did when they once believed the Mark of Cain was for African Blacks the reality set in and the fact is shown they distort the stories and when discover double down on stupidity until they can no longer lie and deny.

The Bible, Tanakh, and Quran are great lessons books to learn wrong from right, but they should never be used to rule our lives with nor should they be allow to govern our government.

So as I finish this long winded rant that jump all over the place please note that I for one consider Jesus a good teacher and maybe could be consider a prophet but no means was he a Messiah, but I am sure many will disagree and proclaim everything I wrote to be of the devil and just gibberish to them.

Fin

Jesus is the Son of God , not a son of God.

How about Son of Dog instead?

Spelling God backwards and according to you I thought you did not believe in Jesus or is it only when it suits your hatred and rage, and please can you spell out the Palestinian name and not use Pal because that is very insulting as can be!

( Now watch how she tell me how her mistakes are not the problem but because I did not use a Capital S on Son she had to be the gramer police when she screws up the majority of her responses )

Sun of God, is which I believe the last Sun God, he is the Son of God and forever will be as long as there are people , as without our Son there is no life.

More rantings?

The fact is one moment you claim you're Roman Catholic and next you write about how if it is real or not, so it make me wonder why do you put on this charade of being a Christian when someone can tell from your writings that you're not?

So tell the entire board about your understanding of Isa Ibn Maryam and do you believe that he is a direct child from The Jewish, Christian and Islamic God or was he a mere mortal born from a Jewish child named Maryam and Yusuf?

 

[amrchaos]

To say nothing of the prophecies about the Messiah also make it perfectly clear he wont be God incarnate. So Jesus may well have been God incarnate, but if he was he was not then also the Messiah. Can be one or the other but not both.

The greeks and romans had "gods" on earth moving about like humans. Usually they were the product of a randy zeus and some milk maid -----following a brief encounter

If genuinely interested in why Jesus wasn't the Messiah, read this. If not don't. Your going to hell doesn't mean a thing to me.

Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

Why not let Bibi be your messiah. You admitted you killed the son of God, the everlasting light, with him from the beginning and you live in darkness now.

The Jewish authorities , by right from their God, had to try Jesus for Blasphemy!!

Once you understand that Jesus, being a Jew acting as a teacher of Judaism, fell under the jurisdiction of judaic law, the pharisee's had the right to try Jesus for Blasphemy. And the Pharisee's had the right to sentence him if Jesus was found guilty.

Considering how the trial went and the fact that many Christians call Jesus God, I think the question "Was Jesus guilty of practicing or encouraging blasphemy according to Judaism?" is obvious.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I agree with him as well about the suffering servant but:

Those are Isaiah's words not Gods. Also the God Isaiah is talking about is the Jewish God, theirs alone. God never said a word in the Bible, all man wrote.

I thought you Muslims claimed that the Jewish god was the same as your god, Baal ne Allah?

 

[Penelope]

First off the Tanakh and Christian Bible have Greek, Sumerian, Roman, and even Buddhist ( The Christian part ) influence.

Tartarus is in Greek, Roman, The Tanakh, and the New Testament and prove the influence of other cultures had over the sotries being told in the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you have Samson which is Hercules in Greek mythology and is another Greek influenced story within the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you had the Leviathan which is also in Greek Mythology and in the Tanakh and Christian Bible along with many other Myths around the world.

As I written before the Jewish God was most likely Anu ( Sumerian mythology ) and Chaos ( Greek Mythology ) the mixing of the Gods from other cultures created the one Jewish God.

Now what does this have to do with what the OP'er and the other posts in this thread?

Simple, as we discuss the words of the Tanakh or the Christian Bible we must remember those stories are mixed with mythology, and should never be taken literal even though many do.

The fact is Jesus story spans from the New Testament to the Quran and I have even read stories about him even visiting Buddhist regions in the far east and of course like poster pointed out the Book of Mormon.

Was he a Messiah?

No, and if you study the meaning of the word Jesus fails to be a Messiah.

Was he the Son of God?

We are all Children of God under the Abrahamic way of teaching, so if you look at it that way yes Jesus was the son of God.

Was Jesus himself God?

Many Christian sects proclaim he was but in reality you can not be the son of God and God at the same time, and also if he were God and after being nailed to the Cross he would have not called out to his father. Also again he spoke as God to being his father and not him as being God, so he was not God.

In the end as many Social Conservatives attempt to distort the stories in the Bible to fit their social agenda like they did when they once believed the Mark of Cain was for African Blacks the reality set in and the fact is shown they distort the stories and when discover double down on stupidity until they can no longer lie and deny.

The Bible, Tanakh, and Quran are great lessons books to learn wrong from right, but they should never be used to rule our lives with nor should they be allow to govern our government.

So as I finish this long winded rant that jump all over the place please note that I for one consider Jesus a good teacher and maybe could be consider a prophet but no means was he a Messiah, but I am sure many will disagree and proclaim everything I wrote to be of the devil and just gibberish to them.

Fin

Jesus is the Son of God , not a son of God.

How about Son of Dog instead?

Spelling God backwards and according to you I thought you did not believe in Jesus or is it only when it suits your hatred and rage, and please can you spell out the Palestinian name and not use Pal because that is very insulting as can be!

( Now watch how she tell me how her mistakes are not the problem but because I did not use a Capital S on Son she had to be the gramer police when she screws up the majority of her responses )

Sun of God, is which I believe the last Sun God, he is the Son of God and forever will be as long as there are people , as without our Son there is no life.

More rantings?

The fact is one moment you claim you're Roman Catholic and next you write about how if it is real or not, so it make me wonder why do you put on this charade of being a Christian when someone can tell from your writings that you're not?

So tell the entire board about your understanding of Isa Ibn Maryam and do you believe that he is a direct child from The Jewish, Christian and Islamic God or was he a mere mortal born from a Jewish child named Maryam and Yusuf?

I am what you'd call a "progressive Catholic" look it up. I am all anyone can be agnostic, but obviously Jesus according to the NT worshipped God based on what he knew, and Muslims also worship God based on what they knew, which is writing from books all based as you have said on the ancients which the Jews copied, esp from their exile in Babylon of which they then accepted many Zoroastrian beliefs as well , which I agree with. I am a RC only for special occasions, baptisms, marriages, confirmation ceremonies, etc. I live by my parents morals, and I have no delusions that if I had been born in Iran I'd be Muslim. All societies back then made basically the same social laws and had their own worship rituals and beliefs.

 

[Avatar4321]

you got some citation on that "jesus hung out with gentiles" thing------it's not in the NT and I do not know where else to look. Some ancient writings upon which you have stumbled?

"Thereupon the Spirit led him away into the wilderness, and there he remained for forty days tempted by Satan. He was among the wild beasts; and the angels waited on him." mark 1:13

Here it clearly shows that before Jesus began teaching he live among the gentiles, the wild beasts being figurative for the romans etc., and the wilderness being figurative for non Jewish areas that were not governed by Mosaic law.

This would explain his predilection to party with sinners and prostitutes and for keeping company with all sorts of bad characters.

Pretty sure that when the Bible spoke of wild beasts there, it was talking about animals. Not gentiles

 

[Avatar4321]

To say nothing of the prophecies about the Messiah also make it perfectly clear he wont be God incarnate. So Jesus may well have been God incarnate, but if he was he was not then also the Messiah. Can be one or the other but not both.

No, there never was and there never will be a human being that was God or became God either before, during or after their human existence.

Then you've missed the entire point of the new testament. Namely that we are the same species as God. And He died for us so we can partake of His Divine Nature.

 

[hobelim]

you got some citation on that "jesus hung out with gentiles" thing------it's not in the NT and I do not know where else to look. Some ancient writings upon which you have stumbled?

"Thereupon the Spirit led him away into the wilderness, and there he remained for forty days tempted by Satan. He was among the wild beasts; and the angels waited on him." mark 1:13

Here it clearly shows that before Jesus began teaching he live among the gentiles, the wild beasts being figurative for the romans etc., and the wilderness being figurative for non Jewish areas that were not governed by Mosaic law.

This would explain his predilection to party with sinners and prostitutes and for keeping company with all sorts of bad characters.

Pretty sure that when the Bible spoke of wild beasts there, it was talking about animals. Not gentiles

No, from the very first book of the bible to the very last people are figuratively compared to wild beasts according to their defining attributes, whether they are talking serpents, beasts of the field, birds of the air, or fish in the sea..

Jesus was not some lonely aesthetic in a literal desert wilderness hanging around with wildlife and having auditory and visual hallucinations of an evil disembodied invisible being.

Just like people are compared to actual animals in scripture people are also compared to mythical beings like angels, fiery prophets with magical powers and the children of God, demons, the devil, the living and the dead which all reflect the heights and depths of human potential.

You could fit the description of a devil if you were trying to tell me that a talking serpent in scripture was anything other than a talking human low life.